oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: jrober38 has an agenda. He has claimed Allen will be a bust since the draft and will twist any fact or statistic in any way to prove himself right. He was nowhere to be heard the first three games. Now, after a bad day, he is out in full force with his usual post after post, after post, of some variation of Allen sucks. Sad, isn't it? I wonder if he'd trade our entire draft to get Winston from the Bucs? That's what he wanted to do when Winston was drafted, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: Except he did have to win the Jets and Bengals games with late 4th quarter drives... Those games aren’t winnable without the defense. The fact the Jets didn’t put us away after all the turnovers was all on the defense. Teams with good defenses allow more chances for comebacks than the Fins and Cards. that said, it’s what the Seahawks did with Wilson so it’s a good blueprint. But with more consistent offense, we could be blowing teams out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, ngbills said: It is OK to be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are concerned does not mean you are a hater. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he needs to play lights out every single game. It is OK to NOT be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are NOT concerned does not mean you are a homer. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he has played lights out every single game. 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Sad, isn't it? I wonder if he'd trade our entire draft to get Winston from the Bucs? That's what he wanted to do when Winston was drafted, after all. He would. He's a one trick pony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Sad, isn't it? I wonder if he'd trade our entire draft to get Winston from the Bucs? That's what he wanted to do when Winston was drafted, after all. Not a Winston fan but considering he has thrown 7 tds in the last 2 weeks, might not be the best time to post this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: jrober38 has an agenda. He has claimed Allen will be a bust since the draft and will twist any fact or statistic in any way to prove himself right. He was nowhere to be heard the first three games. Now, after a bad day, he is out in full force with his usual post after post, after post, of some variation of Allen sucks. If you want to explain to me how I'm wrong, or how I'm off base, please go ahead. The stats, the game film, everything show a QB who is struggling enormously as a passer. I am a Buffalo Bills fan and the Bills have a team good enough to compete for a Super Bowl right now. They're elite on defense, have a good running game, and decent weapons in the pass game. The biggest issue as I see it is we once again have one of the worst starting QBs in the league who makes multiple mistakes in every game he plays. If Josh Allen or any other QB can't get it done and start producing and helping this offense score points, we need to find someone better. All I want is for this team to win a championship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Those games aren’t winnable without the defense. The fact the Jets didn’t put us away after all the turnovers was all on the defense. Teams with good defenses allow more chances for comebacks than the Fins and Cards. that said, it’s what the Seahawks did with Wilson so it’s a good blueprint. But with more consistent offense, we could be blowing teams out. Yep - better QB play and those games are not even close so no comeback required. Those should and could have been blow out wins. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, ngbills said: It is OK to be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are concerned does not mean you are a hater. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he needs to play lights out every single game. Reality check - He has been inconsistent through the majority of his starts. His latest was maybe his worst ever. Ironically his 2nd worst was a year ago today vs GNB. He has shown flashes of being very good and very bad - which is normal for a young QB especially one from Wyoming. However, I would say his legs have helped him out a ton thus far in his career which the NFL has proven is unsustainable. Allen has never had a game he dominated via throwing the ball. Not a single game completing 70% of his passes, not a single 300 yd game, no QBR >120 games. And I wont waste time comparing to a Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. Look even at guys like Lamar Jackson who is doing what we want Allen to do. I dont expect it every game....but you have to want more than what your getting. The 4th quarter comebacks are nice but that does not remove the need for solid QB play. Those arund for the Flutie days can tell you that. Exactly - you did a nice job of summing up my entire thoughts. I am very concerned over the poor QB play. The Bills offense is 9th in total yards in the NFL yet have produced a meager number of points. This is because they continue to shoot themselves in the foot with turnovers and take points off the board 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Those games aren’t winnable without the defense. The fact the Jets didn’t put us away after all the turnovers was all on the defense. Teams with good defenses allow more chances for comebacks than the Fins and Cards. that said, it’s what the Seahawks did with Wilson so it’s a good blueprint. But with more consistent offense, we could be blowing teams out. I didn't say the games weren't winnable without the defense. The fact is, they needed late, 4th quarter TDs to win and he delievered. He certainly has been far less than perfect and has a hell of a lot to improve on. However, the same posters telling the rest of us that we don't want to see the things he doesn't, or hasn't done, well tend not to see things he does, or has done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: It is OK to NOT be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are NOT concerned does not mean you are a homer. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he has played lights out every single game. He would. So you are happy with this level of QB play? Even coach McD has concerns and says he needs to be better. I can bet there will be QB coaches fired and maybe OC fired if Allen does not show a ton more progress. It is not good enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Stop it. 8 men in the box, and 7 blockers. How can someone have missed the safety if there aren't enough guys in blocking? And I don't care if a receiver is open or not. Tom Brady showed numerous times (1 or 2 were questionable) how to throw the ball at one of your receiver's feet to avoid a sack. He knows when he'll be under pressure, and when he knows he can't get to the 2nd read if the first guy isn't open he's throwing it at someones feet and avoiding the sack. Allen doesn't do that here, or ever really. He's completely oblivious to what's going on around him on this play, and the result is a sack that could have been avoided. I hate comparing anyone to Brady, and I don't want to make it seem like I expect Allen to do what Brady does all the time, but come on. Read the D, know you're not going to have more than 2 seconds to throw and get the ball out of your hand. Live to fight another day on the next down. Don't take a sack that will just kill a drive. Tom Brady is the GOAT. Josh Allen was making his 15th career start. And said for me to stop it? Again, you completely missed the part where Allen TRIED to step up into the pocket which is how you avoid the blitzing safety, but our RG went outside and left an LB unblocked to cut Allen off and get the sack. You keep blaming the safety for this sack, but it was the unblocked LB that caused the sack and allowed the safety to get to him first. So let’s do math. 8 blitzers, 7 blockers, yet TWO unblocked guys hitting Allen, one from the backside and one right up the right center of the pocket. You’re not wrong overall in Allen needing to improve on some of these things, but I also think you’re over exaggerating this play. And again, you do not know if Allen has a receiver to throw the ball to. Last I checked a sack is better than an INT. Edited September 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Juice_32 said: Project is your word, not mine. Project QB's are taken in the late rounds. Raw but talented? How about Mahomes? Show me the scouting report that called him a finished product...I'll wait. "Raw but super talented" = "project". It's a kid who has lots of athletic talent -- with QBs that's especially a big arm -- but lacks the kind of skillset that makes him likely to succeed in the NFL. How does that not describe Josh Allen? Allen has a great arm, but poor mechanics and worse decision making partly because he never had good coaching until this season and partly because he's had success relying on his talent alone. In the NFL, talent alone just doesn't cut it. It's what between the ears that counts as much as talent. IMO, Allen shouldn't have been taken in the first round much less the top ten because there's too much to "fix" in his game to bring it up to the level of a competent NFL QB (ie, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, jrober38 said: If you want to explain to me how I'm wrong, or how I'm off base, please go ahead. The stats, the game film, everything show a QB who is struggling enormously as a passer. I am a Buffalo Bills fan and the Bills have a team good enough to compete for a Super Bowl right now. They're elite on defense, have a good running game, and decent weapons in the pass game. The biggest issue as I see it is we once again have one of the worst starting QBs in the league who makes multiple mistakes in every game he plays. If Josh Allen or any other QB can't get it done and start producing and helping this offense score points, we need to find someone better. All I want is for this team to win a championship. I have already gone that route and it is a waste of time. You are disingenuous and relentless in your dislike for Allen. You concluded he was going to be a bust when he was drafted and have been waging that crusade ever since. The fact that you have seemed to completely disappear whenever Allen has done well says all we need to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Not a Winston fan but considering he has thrown 7 tds in the last 2 weeks, might not be the best time to post this. Yep, he's had a couple good games. He also threw a dumb pick 6 late yesterday that could have cost his team the game. And he's 5 years into his career. Yet some want to throw Allen over the side already. I will say yet again today: Allen stunk yesterday. He has to get the dumb throws under control, but having watched what he did the first three games and in the TD drive yesterday, he can do that. It just has to become the norm for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I am not losing faith. I am wondering whether I overreacted a bit to the first 3 weeks where I had really started to feel he was firmly trending towards franchise QB. Reflecting on yesterday, which was awful, I think maybe we just need to hold fire on that until we see consistency. The tools are there. The talent is there. I even think the game is there. But maybe I gave him too much of a pass for some of the mistakes the first 3 weeks because of the playmaking. We need to see consistency. I still think he is headed that way, but it might take a bit longer to see a bona fide Franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, ngbills said: So you are happy with this level of QB play? Even coach McD has concerns and says he needs to be better. I can bet there will be QB coaches fired and maybe OC fired if Allen does not show a ton more progress. It is not good enough... No one is happy with the way he played yesterday. And I would wager that Allen feels that way more than anyone. Hopefully that motivates him to fix some of those dumb decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ngbills said: It is OK to be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are concerned does not mean you are a hater. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he needs to play lights out every single game. Reality check - He has been inconsistent through the majority of his starts. His latest was maybe his worst ever. Ironically his 2nd worst was a year ago today vs GNB. He has shown flashes of being very good and very bad - which is normal for a young QB especially one from Wyoming. However, I would say his legs have helped him out a ton thus far in his career which the NFL has proven is unsustainable. Allen has never had a game he dominated via throwing the ball. Not a single game completing 70% of his passes, not a single 300 yd game, no QBR >120 games. And I wont waste time comparing to a Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. Look even at guys like Lamar Jackson who is doing what we want Allen to do. I dont expect it every game....but you have to want more than what your getting. The 4th quarter comebacks are nice but that does not remove the need for solid QB play. Those arund for the Flutie days can tell you that. Excellent post. This mirrors my thoughts exactly. Pretending like it's just about one bad game is missing the point. Edited September 30, 2019 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsy'est Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 @jrober38 should be banned straight up, and this dates back to the BBMB. Let's break this down. In a (give or take) 200-page thread on the BBMB, where @jrober38 opined that Jay Cutler was better than any of the Bills' QBs and that they should trade a bunch of picks to bring Cutler into the fold. In a multiple-dozen thread, or three, about trading all of the Bills' picks for Jameis Winston, again on the BBMB. In a thread here, how many years ago, about trading all of the Bills' picks for... Carson Wentz. Does Wentz seem so blue chip these days? He does not. It's not that one has a point of view. It's that's one is a crusader. For the longest time, in my last run here, I had thought that jeffismagic and @jrober38 were the same person. Then I realized that they were different people. Holy *****. How can two #######s have this obsession with ruining a message board in exactly the same way. It's not that they have differing opinions from me. It's that, even if I ignore the heck out of them, the message board is ruined because they reply to everything With the @jeffismagic rule, @jrober38 should be banned. And when he returns as spursfan, he should be banned again, and with extreme prejudice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, jrober38 said: If you want to explain to me how I'm wrong, or how I'm off base, please go ahead. The stats, the game film, everything show a QB who is struggling enormously as a passer. I am a Buffalo Bills fan and the Bills have a team good enough to compete for a Super Bowl right now. They're elite on defense, have a good running game, and decent weapons in the pass game. The biggest issue as I see it is we once again have one of the worst starting QBs in the league who makes multiple mistakes in every game he plays. If Josh Allen or any other QB can't get it done and start producing and helping this offense score points, we need to find someone better. All I want is for this team to win a championship. Since QB rating is the only stat that you seem to look at let me find a few for you that Allen is doing well at... 4th in rating in the 4th quarter 7th on 3rd down completions for first downs 3rd in first downs per attempt on 3rd and long 13th in first downs per attempt on 3rd and medium 12th on first downs per attempt on 3rd and short 10th in completion % in the 4th quarter 12th in completion % inside the opponents 20 yard line 10th in rating inside the opponents 20 yard line 15th in rating inside the opponents 10 yard line 13th in rating in 4wr sets 10th in passing % in late and close games Those are all good passing stats. But yeah, he is the worst passer in the league because rating and you said so. If the kid cuts down the turnovers he will go from "one of the worst passers in the league" to top 10-15. All at 23 years old with 15 games experience. Again, lets watch the whole season. Not get crazy after a bad game against what could be NFLs best defense. Edited September 30, 2019 by Scott7975 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Fans are so stupid. The Pats defense has done this to every QB they have played in the last 10 games, and BB's specialty is doing exactly this against young QBs. If it were the Jets or the Giants that did this to JA, I would be worried. This is a giant nothingburger. Josh has shown progression. Unfortunately, everyone takes steps back. That doesn't change the career arc. You could make the claim that it was the Pats D that Allen couldn't deal with if he hadn't made the same mistakes at various times against the Bills three previous opponents. The Bills were good enough to win those three contests despite Allen's intermittent gaffes in all of them, but they came up to bite the Bills in the arse against the Pats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: This. Allen has started 15 games. 9 or those 15 games he had more than 1 turnover. 7 of those 15 games were multi interception games. 2 of those games are multi touchdown games. He is a bigger liability than he is a help. Nothing about the kid makes me think he is going to be a long term answer at QB. He is very lucky to be on a good team. People want to believe there is this light that goes on for quarterbacks. I've never seen it. Good quarterbacks usually come into the league good. Josh is the same player he was in college. Extremely physically gifted, but incredibly prone to huge mistakes. The biggest question for me is if McBeane are willing to let their careers be ruined by the kid, or if they will be smart enough to move on after next year. I tend to agree with this. SURELY Beane and Mcdermott need to be entertaining having a 'what if Allens NOT the guy' conversation?? The word 'Develop" is used a lot - when has a quarterback developed into a different, MUCH better version through "growth and development?' I agree that it seems unlikely that he is a longer term solution at quarterback. Josh Allen seems to be an athletic 'performer' rather than a 'cerebral' quarterback. This is shown in his reluctance to play to the game situation. You cant just change a persons character through "development". He will always want the big play and will continue to fight it if he is reined in. He will continue to be erratic as thats has nature - the only thing that can save this, or delay the judgement that he is not the long terms solution, is if he keeps bringing the team back in games or winning with drives AFTER his "bad" play. If he's doing that they may just sail with his mistakes. The goal is to win a SUPERBOWL. I can't see that with Allen, this game told me that. Edited September 30, 2019 by london_bills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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