Will offense operate better with Barkley next week?

[formerlyofCtown]

17 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There is no question that getting rid of the ball quickly and decisively can make up for other flaws. But there has been one guy imo in 30 years that has succeeded with an arm like Barkley and that is Pennington after surgery and he was an extraordinarily smart QB. People say Montana didn't have a strong arm but he could make all the throws and often did. Barkley cannot. 

So can brushing off defenders and jumping over the line for a TD.  Im am more than content with Barkley as a backup.  But JA is our starter and I hope everyone on the board sees the difference.  The mistakes Allen makes can be corrected.  The gifts he has cannot be taught or coached.

[WideNine]

5 hours ago, vincec said:

Allen needs to learn to manage the game. He forces the ball and runs way too much. This leads to a lot of opportunities for interceptions, fumbles and injuries. He needs to learn when to throw the ball away. Look at Brady: he played like crap but they won because he took much better care of the ball.

 

Yes, he is guilty of trying to do too much on his own against a defense that had not allowed a TD since their Super Bowl and just 3 points.

 

Perspective folks... Did he try to force things that were not there - yes.

 

He will learn from this, he has had too much success extending plays he needs games like this to learn. I am frustrated too, but will see what he takes from this experience.

 

It sucks, but NE would have eaten Barkley alive had he started and they did any scheming for him.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by WideNine

[DuckyBoys]

Barkley is a decent backup  But that is all  I hope Allen can play vs the Titans  Warts and all he gives the Bills the best chance to win

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, formerlyofCtown said:

So can brushing off defenders and jumping over the line for a TD.  Im am more than content with Barkley as a backup.  But JA is our starter and I hope everyone on the board sees the difference.  The mistakes Allen makes can be corrected.  The gifts he has cannot be taught or coached.

I don't know if this is the best analogy but right now, 15 or so starts into his career, Josh Allen is Nolan Ryan. He's not going to have a great ERA, he's going to walk a bunch of guys, he's going to make mistakes but you win with him. 

[MAJBobby]

Best way to look at it. 
 

Allen Plays - we are favored 

Barkley Plays - will will be dogs

[vincec]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

Yes, he is guilty of trying to do too much on his own against a defense that had not allowed a TD since their Super Bowl and just 3 points.

 

Perspective folks... Did he try to force things that were not there - yes.

 

He will learn from this, he has had do much success extending plays he needs games like this to learn. I am frustrated too, but will see what he takes from this experience.

 

It sucks, but NE would have eaten Barkley alive had he started and they did any scheming for him.

 

 

I hope so but he hasn't learned yet. This isn't the first game he's forced things.

[dayman]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

All he needs to do is play mistake free football.  

 

Agreed. I think the team is better with Matt right now for this reason--not to say that Matt is great. He certainly has less upside than Josh ... but we're a pretty good football team at the moment and we kind of just need to take care of the football and make a few nice plays. Matt can do that. I think we'll be fine and have a good chance to beat the Titans. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dayman

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I’m expecting Allen to play but for the sake of fairness here...Let’s say Barkley plays:

 

By far the best Dabols offense has looked, was with Barkley. (With the same players) We scored 41 on the road against a division opponent. And that game was on ice for the entire second half. We could have easily got 50+ if we needed it. This offense has never looked like that with Allen. Let’s say Barkley goes down to Tennessee and puts up 38 in a win. People are going to have to start thinking differently about how good Allen has been. I’m not saying any of these things are going to happen. But Barkley played 1 game where he was expected to start. And he absolutely lit it up. This offense has never looked as good before or since. If Barkley takes the reps with the 1s all week and then lights it up. It’s going to say a lot about Allen. That day against the jets looked effortless. This defense is elite. We need the offense to stay on time and not make asinine mistakes. If we click on all cylinders for 4 quarters in Tennessee (with Barkley) then it’s going to show us something about Allen.

 

I don't think he lit it up.  He was efficient and had a monstrous running game that day.  And the Bills best offensive day in the Dabold system  IMO was against the Dolphins and the outing against the Giants this season was on par with the Barkley led effort against the Jets.

 

And for the record if your scenario plays out and Allen isn't the guy then the Bills will be set back years as Barkley is NOT the answer and we'll have to go through the draft again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MDH]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

All he needs to do is play mistake free football.  

 

Yep, play some Tyrod ball and the Bills should

win. Take a 4-1 record into the bye with Miami in the other side and the Bills should be on schedule for the post season.

[dave mcbride]

37 minutes ago, GG said:

 

So you crap on the QB who had 2 of the longest drives today, was totally left exposed by an OL brainfart, but excuse the guy who threw 3 ridiculous INTs and fumbled twice?

I think the thing is that in the middle of the field, teams will give him the quick slants, but when you get deeper and near the EZ, you have to be able to throw ropes outside the numbers. He can’t do it. He can place the deep sideline lob accurately, which is good and something Allen is incapable of doing so far this season. Again, he’s immobile and once the middle of the field gets taken away from him, he’s a sack/TO machine.

Edited September 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[CLTbills]

57 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The big issue is that his play in the first 3 Qs  puts the entire onus on the defense to keep the game in check.  There's no question that I would rather have him than Barkley when the game is on the line with 3 minutes to go.  But realistically, the first 3 games should have been blow outs, and today's game wouldn't need last minute heroics with half way decent QB play.  

 

I think that at this point, with the offense that Daboll is running, Barkley is the better option.   

 

There has to be concern about Allen's regression this year, especially when the long ball has been woefully off.

In what universe has Allen regressed this year?

[MDH]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Barkley can’t throw effectively outside the numbers except when he does accurately placed lobs. And he’s immobile. Both QBs have big weaknesses (i.e., Allen can’t seem to throw an accurate deep ball to save his life right now. He is AWFUL in that dept. so far this season.)

 

It wasn’t lost on me that the first deep shot down the field was completed when Barkley lobbed one up and actually allowed a WR to make a play as opposed to overthrowing his target by 5 yards.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

Short term vs long term goal?

 

This could be a case where Josh again benefits from sitting down and watching.   

 

 

Watching Barkley??

 

Come on with this.  He needs to play to learn.  

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MDH said:

 

It wasn’t lost on me that the first deep shot down the field was completed when Barkley lobbed one up and actually allowed a WR to make a play as opposed to overthrowing his target by 5 yards.

True! I thought the same.

Edited September 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MDH]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Unless he can't go why are we sitting Allen? 

 

Suggesting Barkley gives us a better chance to win next week is asinine.

 

I don’t know if it’s asinine.  Allen definitely needs to be in the field the moment he’s ready but with this D just not giving the other team the ball will generally be enough to win. Barkley can do that better than Allen at this point.

[formerlyofCtown]

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I don't know if this is the best analogy but right now, 15 or so starts into his career, Josh Allen is Nolan Ryan. He's not going to have a great ERA, he's going to walk a bunch of guys, he's going to make mistakes but you win with him. 

On the money.  If Allen doesnt get knocked out of the game I truely believe we are celebrating our first victory over Brady in a long time. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Best way to look at it. 
 

Allen Plays - we are favored 

Barkley Plays - will will be dogs

I expect to be underdogs regardless. The titans have some good wins this year. This game will not be easy.

[WideNine]

5 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

Oh I'm pretty sure that and Allen's picks weren't the only reasons

 

That, and Brady's intentional grounding did not give us the ball on their 5.

Edited September 30, 2019 by WideNine

[vincec]

6 minutes ago, dayman said:

 

Agreed. I think the team is better with Matt right now for this reason--not to say that Matt is great. He certainly has less upside than Josh ... but we're a pretty good football team at the moment and we kind of just need to take care of the football and make a few nice plays. Matt can do that. I think we'll be fine and have a good chance to beat the Titans. 

Biggest issue vs the Titans is avoiding a major emotional letdown after losing this game, IMO. If their heads are in it then they can win with Barkley.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, MDH said:

 

It wasn’t lost on me that the first deep shot down the field was completed when Barkley lobbed one up and actually allowed a WR to make a play as opposed to overthrowing his target by 5 yards.

That was a phenomenal catch. If someone did that for Allen it would have been a first. Not to mention that Barkley can lob the ball like that. He's decent if not good at it. But he cannot throw several throws an NFL QB must throw. 

[CincyBillsFan]

With a week to prepare the Bills can beat TN with Barkley.  Barkley is a good enough QB to make this happen.  But this is not the preferred path. 

 

And for those that are touting Barkley's "stats" don't forget that NE went into prevent and gave the Bills those short passes.  As soon as Barley got to the Pats 40 on that last drive they shut it down with two straight incompletions and then an INT.  Guys like Barkley that check down for a living will move the ball and pile up stats against a prevent D.  However they seldom seem to get it into the end zone in 6 point games. 

 

The best 2 drives today were led by Allen and resulted in 10 points.  And in the name of keeping it real Barkley was lucky he didn't have a lost fumble and a 2nd INT today. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[Maine-iac]

Look I'm on board with the Allen will learn from his mistakes cliche but he did it last year.  He did it in preseason and let's face it we could have lost the Jet's, Bengals, and Pat's games all because he keeps doing it.  We are lucky to be 3 and 1 right now.  It is both a good and bad problem that we could be much better because we SHOULD be much better.  Allen needs to learn from todays game just like he needed to learn from last year, this preseason, the Jets, and the Bengals.  My question is when is he going to learn?  I'm not done with him.  I hope he's back next week.  Let's home he puts this turnover problem to bed, for good.

[FiftyPercent]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

This. For the Bills to win with Barkley everyone has to play a near perfect game. Singletary needs to be in there. 

Allen is capable of things Barkley can never dream about doing.

But maybe he takes better care of the ball.

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I expect to be underdogs regardless. The titans have some good wins this year. This game will not be easy.

And Horrific Losses 

[vincec]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

And Horrific Losses 

If the Bills D keeps their intensity, they will mess Mariota up.

[MDH]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That was a phenomenal catch. If someone did that for Allen it would have been a first. Not to mention that Barkley can lob the ball like that. He's decent if not good at it. But he cannot throw several throws an NFL QB must throw. 

 

It was also a PI, which you’ll sometimes get if the throw is catchable.

 

And yeah, Barkley doesn’t have an average arm but he also understands his limitations. He’s not a good QB (or even a good backup IMO) but I think he’ll be fine for a single game. 

[Maine-iac]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

With Matt Barkley? 

 

Disagree. He'll protect the football better, but I just can't see them putting up enough points to win.

 

Against Tennessee?  Unless Henry gets rolling there is no reason to think we'll need a bunch of points to win.  I don't think anyone thinks Barkley is the answer.  Allen needs to get his head right though.  He's hurting his team.

[WideNine]

20 minutes ago, vincec said:

I hope so but he hasn't learned yet. This isn't the first game he's forced things.

 

Yes, but it is the first one in a while where the team lost.

 

Just like in life, it is easier to blow off poor habits when you are able to squeak out a win in the end.

 

The soul searching happens when you are not able to recover from the poor decisions.

 

 

[vincec]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

Yes, but it is the first one in a while where the team lost.

 

Just like in life, it is easier to blow off poor habits when you are able to squeak out a win in the end.

 

The soul searching happens when you are not able to recover from the poor decisions.

 

 

True enough. We'll see.

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Against Tennessee?  Unless Henry gets rolling there is no reason to think we'll need a bunch of points to win.  I don't think anyone thinks Barkley is the answer.  Allen needs to get his head right though.  He's hurting his team.

ummmm by hurting you mean leading them to 3 wins?

[Kelly the Dog]

13 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

It was also a PI, which you’ll sometimes get if the throw is catchable.

 

And yeah, Barkley doesn’t have an average arm but he also understands his limitations. He’s not a good QB (or even a good backup IMO) but I think he’ll be fine for a single game. 

Yeah, I have been saying that since his good game last year. He can win a game for you. But if he has to play 3-4 he's at the bottom of the league. Granted, in 2019 there are not a lot of good backup QBs. I think he can help Josh. I'm okay with him as our backup. But he has severe limitations, which was why he was drafted in the fourth round even though he has 90% of the qualities you want in a QB. If you have a rag arm you cannot be good over time. That deossnt of course mean if you have a good arm you will be good. But fans don't often understand why guys like Peterman and Barkley and Kellen Moore cannot ever be good. If Kellen Moore had even a decent arm he likely would have been an Alex Smith kind of QB. But he didn't so he couldn't. Barkley is in that class. If he had 10% more arm he would be a valuable player. 

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

ummmm by hurting you mean leading them to 3 wins?

LOL ........... sure Allen won all 3 games by himself.  He's also had some great come from behind wins ........ because his turnovers put us behind.  Pats were the wake up call.  We could have easily lost in the Jets game and Bengals game for no other reason than Allen turns it over too much.

[buffalo2218]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

With Matt Barkley? 

 

Disagree. He'll protect the football better, but I just can't see them putting up enough points to win.

 

With this defense that took Brady to the woodshed, that's pretty much all we have to do is protect the football. I believe Barkley is capable of putting up points

[Mojo44]

5 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

LOL ........... sure Allen won all 3 games by himself.  He's also had some great come from behind wins ........ because his turnovers put us behind.  Pats were the wake up call.  We could have easily lost in the Jets game and Bengals game for no other reason than Allen turns it over too much.

I pretty much agree with this. While his fourth quarter heroics have been terrific,his turnovers, if they keep going this way,Are not a sustainable way to keep winning games.

[Best Player Available]

4 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

I pretty much agree with this. While his fourth quarter heroics have been terrific,his turnovers, if they keep going this way,Are not a sustainable way to keep winning games.

today for Allen it seemed the moment was too big for him.

He can redeem himself in Marcia's house later in the season.

[Mojo44]

Just now, Best Player Available said:

today for Allen it seemed the moment was too big for him.

He can redeem himself in Marcia's house later in the season.

I’m still all in on Josh. If he can play next week, as far as I am concerned, he can redeem himself next week.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

today for Allen it seemed the moment was too big for him.

He can redeem himself in Marcia's house later in the season.

Wasn't he playing his best when he got hurt?

[Best Player Available]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Wasn't he playing his best when he got hurt?

Yep. Early on he looked way to nervous.

Or it seemed that way. Not a dig on Allen it was the biggest game in his career with

the 3-0'matchups and the pats. 

[dakrider]

Barkley made 1 big play in this game and otherwise didn't do squat.   He's a good backup but Bills will quickly see their limitations with him running offense.

[Mojo44]

8 minutes ago, dakrider said:

Barkley made 1 big play in this game and otherwise didn't do squat.   He's a good backup but Bills will quickly see their limitations with him running offense.

If Barkley has to go, he will have a full week of practicing with the first string. This is significant for next week. However, I would still rather have Josh there