Depending on the outcome of tomorrows game...AJ Green

[Dkollidas]

13 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why would the Bengals want to trade him exactly? Are they thinking of tanking?

 

Thinking of tanking? I mean, they’re 0-4. The only thing that looks useful on their team right now is their skill players (Ross, Boyd & Mixon in particular). Trading for Green gives us a guy who can be that guy to go and get those 50/50 balls that josh tosses into an area. He’s the type of QB who needs that. If we don’t get him, I’d love to see them go after Higgins in this year’s draft. 

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

Thinking of tanking? I mean, they’re 0-4. The only thing that looks useful on their team right now is their skill players (Ross, Boyd & Mixon in particular). Trading for Green gives us a guy who can be that guy to go and get those 50/50 balls that josh tosses into an area. He’s the type of QB who needs that. If we don’t get him, I’d love to see them go after Higgins in this year’s draft. 

Sounds great for us. Doesn't sound great for them.

[Dkollidas]

24 minutes ago, MJS said:

Sounds great for us. Doesn't sound great for them.

I get that. At the same time, the ball can only go so many places. He’ll be expensive and he’ll be unhappy with other people getting the ball more. They’re not going anywhere and he’s a UFA at the end of the season. They should deal him for picks to help them in other areas of need (which would basically be... QB, OT, OG, C, DE, DT, LB, CB, S). 

So it actually doesn’t sound too bad for them. 

[Hebert19]

Zay and a 4th will do it.   Heck a 4th will.

 

No way they will resign him.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Sounds great for us. Doesn't sound great for them.

 

 

What if I were to tell you he was a free agent after this(lost Bengals) season??

[MJS]

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What if I were to tell you he was a free agent after this(lost Bengals) season??

I'd say the Bengals should try to sign him because he's a good player.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

I'd say the Bengals should try to sign him because he's a good player.

 

 

Fair enough.    Two WR's combining for $25M of payroll seems unlikely though.   Especially with the pass game in good shape without him and he going into age 32 season.  Tyler Boyd is already making $11M per on his new deal and my guess is AJ isn't inclined to give any hometown discounts after the Bengals let him get hurt in his walk year practicing on that sh*t field.   A divorce seems likely and in the best interest of both parties.   

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

If Green or Digg's or anyone else were to become available as a FA, great sign him, but not in favor of giving up any resources  as the return is likely not worth it. 

 

Of all the positions on the field WR is usually one of the toughest for a new guy to come in as regardless of how talented he is, he also needs to be on the same page as QB and that takes time to develop.  Allen is still raw, one of his problems may be he thinks to much instead of reacting as still doesn't have enough experience to just simply react.  The last thing I want is Allen back there thinking "Lets see where does the new guy want he ball again" At this point guys he's most familiar with will help him the best.  Typically you bring a new WR in, he spends extra practice time with the QB, again at this point any extra time Allen might have can be better spent elsewhere I'd think.

 

I recall back around 1990, the Bills brought in James Loften think it was around this same point in the season, took some time for him to begin to look good, certainly by season end he was looking real good, but that was also with a QB who's been here for around 3 to 4 years too.

 

Bring the new guys in off season when Allen has time to work with him, but not now when it just may add to his confusion.  And not worth spending resources for little return.

 

I'd extend this thought to all the Duke Williams fans out there too.  He likely also hasn't had much time working with Allen either add in that he himself is still very raw too.  At this point for the Bills the best strategy might be WRT, WR dance with the girl who brought you even if that girl is named Zay!  The Bills aren't winning the SB this year either way.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Hebert19]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Why would the Bengals want to trade him exactly? Are they thinking of tanking?

He's a free agent next year.   31.   And they need like 7 different positions in the draft.  They need draft picks.

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

If Green or Digg's or anyone else were to become available as a FA, great sign him, but not in favor of giving up any resources  as the return is likely not worth it. 

 

Of all the positions on the field WR is usually one of the toughest for a new guy to come in as regardless of how talented he is, he also needs to be on the same page as QB and that takes time to develop.  Allen is still raw, one of his problems may be he thinks to much instead of reacting as still doesn't have enough experience to just simply react.  The last thing I want is Allen back there thinking "Lets see where does the new guy want he ball again" At this point guys he's most familiar with will help him the best.  Typically you bring a new WR in, he spends extra practice time with the QB, again at this point any extra time Allen might have can be better spent elsewhere I'd think.

 

I recall back around 1990, the Bills brought in James Loften think it was around this same point in the season, took some time for him to begin to look good, certainly by season end he was looking real good, but that was also with a QB who's been here for around 3 to 4 years too.

 

Bring the new guys in off season when Allen has time to work with him, but not now when it just may add to his confusion.  And not worth spending resources for little return.

 

I'd extend this thought to all the Duke Williams fans out there too.  He likely also hasn't had much time working with Allen either add in that he himself is still very raw too.  At this point for the Bills the best strategy might be WRT, WR dance with the girl who brought you even if that girl is named Zay!  The Bills aren't winning the SB this year either way.

So while I agree the Bills won't win the superbowl this year...why wouldnt you try to.  The delta between us and the best teams in the league is not that big this year.  Add AJ green and maybe someone on oline and why couldn't we compete.  Any given sunday.  

 

This D is superbowl level. 

[RaoulDuke79]

On 9/29/2019 at 6:32 PM, Starr Almighty said:

Why does it seem like nobody is aware that AJ is hurt and hasn't played a single snap this year.

And unbelievably he's only 69 yards shy of Zay Jones for the season. 

[Punching Bag]

On 9/29/2019 at 7:07 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I agree, if Bengals keep losing they might want to give up some assets.

 

Actually wouldn't mind going after Carolina for McCaffrey

 

Yeldon is just not dependable enough.

 

 

 

There is NO chance Carolina would trade McCaffrey.  Now if we had John Skelton on roster to trade them to back up their QB while Cam recovers maybe....

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

11 hours ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

If the Bills give up anything substantial for an often injured, 31 year old WR who wants a new deal then Beane needs his head examined. No way they do this, they have spent 2 years shedding these old deals and would be shocked if they went after him. 

 

ANYTHING?!

[Dopey]

43 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

And unbelievably he's only 69 yards shy of Zay Jones for the season. 

He has a better qb. I know that doesn't make sense, since he hasn't played a snap, but there's like 40 other threads where you can trash Zay. Isn't it getting old yet?

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dopey

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

He's a free agent next year.   31.   And they need like 7 different positions in the draft.  They need draft picks.

So while I agree the Bills won't win the superbowl this year...why wouldnt you try to.  The delta between us and the best teams in the league is not that big this year.  Add AJ green and maybe someone on oline and why couldn't we compete.  Any given sunday.  

 

This D is superbowl level. 

 

Well as someone pointed out Green is hurt alot so are you really even getting an asset that will help. And as I said I question if it actually might hurt Allen's development more than help him at this point in the season.  I'd prefer they keep the draft pick to acquire more assets for next year.

[purple haze]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

If Green or Digg's or anyone else were to become available as a FA, great sign him, but not in favor of giving up any resources  as the return is likely not worth it. 

 

Bring the new guys in off season when Allen has time to work with him, but not now when it just may add to his confusion.  And not worth spending resources for little return.

I'm not on the Zay must get gone at any cost bandwagon, but I disagree with you in terms of the WRs you mention.  If Beane could get Diggs or Green at a reasonable cost he should do it.  Those guys are vets.  They can be useful now as is.  Green would have to come real cheap though with his injury issues the past couple years.

[Doc Brown]

I don't know how much loyalty the Bengals feel to Green as far as only trading him to a team with his approval.  If not we have a chance.  If so the Cowboys, Patriots, and Saints are the most obvious trade destinations given all three have a legitimate Super Bowl chance and could use an elite #1/1b WR to put them over the top.  

[Matt_In_NH]

A WR is not a magic pill for a QB who makes bad decisions.

[colin]

assuming he is examined and they feel that he's gonna get healthy, i'd jump all over a 4th for Green.

 

Our biggest needs right now for this season:

punter

OT (RT really)

WR

 

we have some extra tackles on the team, and maybe they get better/our scheme accommodates them 

punter i just have no idea, does anyone ever trade for one?

 

WR would be the biggest value add if we get someone with skills.  AJ green is sick, but if there is someone better i'd take him instead.

 

at worst we get another KB situation and blow a 3rd and some money.  worth the chance of getting a giant fast sure handed guy who turns JA back foot floater picks into deep catches.

 

[Dopey]

34 minutes ago, mattynh said:

A WR is not a magic pill for a QB who makes bad decisions.

Haven't you heard, we need a wr to be a db out there on those bad throws. Or at least draw an offensive pass interference flag to avoid a pick.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dopey

[Matt_In_NH]

6 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Haven't you heard, we need a wr to be a db out there on those bad throws. Or at least draw an offensive pass interference flag to avoid a pick.

 

There is a weird fascination with WR's being the end all.  I mean AJ Green is a great talent but he is always injured and on the last year of his deal.   We are trying to build for the future, this offense can be successful with the players they have.  They are like 8th or 9th in yards....just need to clean up the mistakes and they can be pretty good.  This team is building for the long term, not just this year.   We have the offseason and draft to potentially add talent at WR.  At this point I wish they would sign Duke just so I can stop hearing about it.  But then when he gets few looks it will be about that.

[JoPar_v2]

Welp John Ross is out multiple weeks now too down there in Cincy. Not sure if that affects their feelings on selling AJ but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they’re toast either way.

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

 

There is a weird fascination with WR's being the end all.  I mean AJ Green is a great talent but he is always injured and on the last year of his deal.   We are trying to build for the future, this offense can be successful with the players they have.  They are like 8th or 9th in yards....just need to clean up the mistakes and they can be pretty good.  This team is building for the long term, not just this year.   We have the offseason and draft to potentially add talent at WR.  At this point I wish they would sign Duke just so I can stop hearing about it.  But then when he gets few looks it will be about that.

Josh is young and making the mistakes of someone who started only 16 games. I think he'll get better as the season progresses. Our wr have the ability to at least be top 1/2 in the NFL(including out te's). Josh has 3 tds and 1 is essentially a hand off to McKenzie. He could EASILY have 4 more tds. That would put him at 7 tds, up there with Brady and Rivers so far. Green is supposedly out til at least week 7 with ankle surgery, he's 31 and was hurt the last seasons(foot issue). I agree, we are building for the future and an injured 31 yr old wr isn't the right path. If Duke comes up and plays well, great. If not, we still have what it takes to make a playoff run and who knows what can happen. Josh has to hit those guys when they're open for tds though.We lost to NE by 6 points against NE. If Josh hits that open receiver for the td, we probably win that game. Josh should get better and we are a playoff team. Without AJ.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Welp John Ross is out multiple weeks now too down there in Cincy. Not sure if that affects their feelings on selling AJ but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they’re toast either way.

They just IR'd him, out at least eight weeks. That should put the AJ Green talk that is never going to happen on hold.

[PIZ]

https://twitter.com/AllensNutsack/status/1179776831744040968?s=19

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by PIZ

[BADOLBILZ]

On 10/2/2019 at 10:24 AM, Dopey said:

Josh is young and making the mistakes of someone who started only 16 games. I think he'll get better as the season progresses. Our wr have the ability to at least be top 1/2 in the NFL(including out te's). Josh has 3 tds and 1 is essentially a hand off to McKenzie. He could EASILY have 4 more tds. That would put him at 7 tds, up there with Brady and Rivers so far. Green is supposedly out til at least week 7 with ankle surgery, he's 31 and was hurt the last seasons(foot issue). I agree, we are building for the future and an injured 31 yr old wr isn't the right path. If Duke comes up and plays well, great. If not, we still have what it takes to make a playoff run and who knows what can happen. Josh has to hit those guys when they're open for tds though.We lost to NE by 6 points against NE. If Josh hits that open receiver for the td, we probably win that game. Josh should get better and we are a playoff team. Without AJ.

 

 

Mahomes is young..........like 23 games?    And the Chiefs have never scored less than 26 points in any of them.    Just being young is not an excuse for QB's any more.  

[Dopey]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Mahomes is young..........like 23 games?    And the Chiefs have never scored less than 26 points in any of them.    Just being young is not an excuse for QB's any more.  

Not an excuse, just a reason. I'm pointing out that I think he'll get better. There's a reason for Mahomes' numbers. Mahomes is a better qb than Josh and it's not even close. KC has a better team offensively around him and it's not even close. KC has a better offensive mind coaching them and it's not even close. Why would you even put them in the same conversation? The main point of my post is we don't need Green.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Dopey

[Motor26]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Mahomes is young..........like 23 games?    And the Chiefs have never scored less than 26 points in any of them.    Just being young is not an excuse for QB's any more.  

 

Ummm look at who Mahomes plays with on offense. So much talent around him its unreal. In Andy Reid's system. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Not an excuse, just a reason. I'm pointing out that I think he'll get better. There's a reason for Mahomes' numbers. Mahomes is a better qb than Josh and it's not even close. KC has a better team offensively around him and it's not even close. KC has a better offensive mind coaching them and it's not even close. Why would you even put them in the same conversation? The main point of my post is we don't need Green.

 

 

If you think that one of the reasons Mahomes is better is because "KC has a better team offensively around him"..............which is THE MOST common refrain around here when comparing the two..........then I can't see why they don't need a player like Green.

 

That falls in the "he's good because of Andy Reid offensive mind" but "McD isn't holding Josh Allen back" circle of logic.

 

The rule of thumb for elevating young QB's is put big talent around them...........Rams, Eagles, Bears, Chiefs and Texans have loaded up for their QB's in year 2 and flourished.     The Bills have a pedestrian group of playmakers.........that's not what's been working.

[78thealltimegreat]

The chiefs have a defense that couldn’t stop a cold so that will eventually do them in but let’s face it Reid is an offensive genius he made Kevin Kolb into a decent QB much less a guy like Mahomes he just is one of the worst big game coaches I’ve ever seen  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...according to TBD draft pundits, isn't the 2020 WR class termed "one of the best in recent years"?......thought I read where 'Bama is fertile grounds......so why not use pick(s) in 2020 versus trades?...did I miss the memo?.....

[jkeerie]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you think that one of the reasons Mahomes is better is because "KC has a better team offensively around him"..............which is THE MOST common refrain around here when comparing the two..........then I can't see why they don't need a player like Green.

 

That falls in the "he's good because of Andy Reid offensive mind" but "McD isn't holding Josh Allen back" circle of logic.

 

The rule of thumb for elevating young QB's is put big talent around them...........Rams, Eagles, Bears, Chiefs and Texans have loaded up for their QB's in year 2 and flourished.     The Bills have a pedestrian group of playmakers.........that's not what's been working.

I don't think anyone can disagree with this, irrespective of their opinion on Green.   They will though...because it's the way things are on this forum.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...according to TBD draft pundits, isn't the 2020 WR class termed "one of the best in recent years"?......thought I read where 'Bama is fertile grounds......so why not use pick(s) in 2020 versus trades?...did I miss the memo?.....

 

 

Did you miss the game where Josh Allen got knocked around like a pinball and sent into concussion protocol last Sunday while his diminutive receiving corps was thoroughly covered?

 

This is why a player like AJ Green is valued...........even when he's covered it's a sound decision to throw the ball to him.

 

I'm not even a huge AJ Green fan but when you finally get your hands on a talented young QB after 25 years of "trying" you don't just say "wait til next years draft",  IMO.

 

  

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

https://twitter.com/AllensNutsack/status/1179776831744040968?s=19

 

 

 

 

So that is fake right?  I don't twitter but there is no actual link that takes you to the story or interview where he said that.

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you think that one of the reasons Mahomes is better is because "KC has a better team offensively around him"..............which is THE MOST common refrain around here when comparing the two..........then I can't see why they don't need a player like Green.

 

That falls in the "he's good because of Andy Reid offensive mind" but "McD isn't holding Josh Allen back" circle of logic.

 

The rule of thumb for elevating young QB's is put big talent around them...........Rams, Eagles, Bears, Chiefs and Texans have loaded up for their QB's in year 2 and flourished.     The Bills have a pedestrian group of playmakers.........that's not what's been working.

 I didn't say Mahomes is better because of the offense around him. You mentioned Mahomes' numbers and I gave 3 reasons why his numbers are better. I said Mahomes is a better QB, period. And it's not even close. I said KC has a better offensive team and I said KC has a better offensive mind coaching them. I also explained that I don't want a broke down 31yr old wr. who just had ankle surgery this summer. Not to mention a foot issue that kept him out of multiple games last year. Especially if we have to give up a meaninful draft pick. I'm all for adding talent to help Josh, just not Green. As for Mcd not holding Allen back, you're right. But that's not even remotely close to what I said. I never said he's better than Josh because of Ried. I said he's just better than Josh. Period. Pretty sure that's what I wrote, but I'll check...

Yep, that's what I wrote. But again, my main point and what this thread is about, I don't think we need old broke down 31 yr old Green.

56 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I don't think anyone can disagree with this, irrespective of their opinion on Green.   They will though...because it's the way things are on this forum.

I don't disagree with adding talent to make us better. I'm all for it, just not Green. JMO. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Dopey

[Augie]

Is this a weekly thing? Will it end after the trade deadline? 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

Is this a weekly thing? Will it end after the trade deadline? 

Do they still have the post trade deadline thing where a guy has to clear waivers?  The Yankees use that all the time.

[jkeerie]

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

 

i don't disagree with adding talent to make us better. I'm all for it, just not Green. JMO. 

That's a valid opinion as well.  I have no issues with it.

[Dopey]

Just now, jkeerie said:

That's a valid opinion as well.  I have no issues with it.

I Wouldn't hate Diggs.

[jkeerie]

Just now, Dopey said:

I Wouldn't hate Diggs.

Neither would I.

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

So that is fake right?  I don't twitter but there is no actual link that takes you to the story or interview where he said that.

 

 

Yeah I think TheRealAllensNutsack is the legit one

27 minutes ago, Dopey said:

 I didn't say Mahomes is better because of the offense around him. You mentioned Mahomes' numbers and I gave 3 reasons why his numbers are better. I said Mahomes is a better QB, period. And it's not even close. I said KC has a better offensive team and I said KC has a better offensive mind coaching them. I also explained that I don't want a broke down 31yr old wr. who just had ankle surgery this summer. Not to mention a foot issue that kept him out of multiple games last year. Especially if we have to give up a meaninful draft pick. I'm all for adding talent to help Josh, just not Green. As for Mcd not holding Allen back, you're right. But that's not even remotely close to what I said. I never said he's better than Josh because of Ried. I said he's just better than Josh. Period. Pretty sure that's what I wrote, but I'll check...

Yep, that's what I wrote. But again, my main point and what this thread is about, I don't think we need old broke down 31 yr old Green.

I don't disagree with adding talent to make us better. I'm all for it, just not Green. JMO. 

 

 

You said not having offensive talent around him "was a reason" and I said if it "was a reason" then why isn't a better offensive player needed?

 

Get rid of as many reasons as possible.

 

That's reasoning.

 

Sound reasonable?