Stank_Nasty Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Don't you know? Even when he does well, he really doesn't. It's like a mirage in the desert. There is a narrative about Allen, and I don't think it will ever go away - even if he wins. I was reading an article on the TBD site today, "Pro Football Focus says Bills' wide receivers need to do more," (why? I have no ide as PFF is particularly bad at most of their analyses) and this little tidbit is illustrative of the narrative: However, the play at the quarterback position might not be setting them up for optimal success... Though Allen has generated a high adjusted completion percentage thus far (77.6%), that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s been accurate. Only 17 of his 163 passing attempts this season have been deemed as 100% on the mark. so they basically throw one of their made up stats under the bus just to try and confirm their thoughts on Allen..... that's solid work right there!!! also.... both Beasley and brown are on pace for their BEST seasons as pro's to date. I bet both are fairly content with how josh has been setting them up on the stats sheet AND in the win column. Edited October 10, 2019 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, Stank_Nasty said: so they basically throw one of their made up stats under the bus just to try and confirm their thoughts on Allen..... that's solid work right there!!! also.... both Beasley and brown are on pace for their BEST seasons as pro's to date. I bolded it, italicized it, and underlined it because this is the core of much of the criticism of Josh Allen: People continually looking only for those things that confirm what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, K-9 said: Allen has led a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive in 38% of his starts. Can Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, or Murray claim the same? I’d rather see Allen light it up against bad teams and not need a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive. We are one of the worst teams in the league at scoring points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’d rather see Allen light it up against bad teams and not need a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive. We are one of the worst teams in the league at scoring points. Of course. As we all would. Does anything Allen demonstrates on the field indicate anything positive at all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’d rather see Allen light it up against bad teams and not need a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive. We are one of the worst teams in the league at scoring points. Yep. But 12th at getting the yards. They (Allen) just need to protect the ball. They're great in the red zone #3 in red zone scoring percentage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 40 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’d rather see Allen light it up against bad teams and not need a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive. We are one of the worst teams in the league at scoring points. There are a number of reasons why they have not scored more points than they have and, believe it or not, Allen isn't the only reason. But I know you have to be ecstatic that, no matter the reasons for how then might end up tied or behind in the fourth quarter, you have a QB on your team that plays really well in the clutch and is one of the highest rated 4th quarter and redzone QBs in the NFL. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: Not sure if posted or not, but the geniuses at NFL.com have Allen behind Mayfield and Darnold. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001064131/article/qb-index-week-6-russell-wilson-catches-patrick-mahomes 26???? Behind Mariota, Darnold and Mayfield??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: Not sure if posted or not, but the geniuses at NFL.com have Allen behind Mayfield and Darnold. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001064131/article/qb-index-week-6-russell-wilson-catches-patrick-mahomes Carson Wentz over Aaron Rodgers. Yiiikes. This is a good line: Bhanpuri: Mayfield currently carries the dubious title of being the NFL's worst best quarterback. What does that mean? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, HappyDays said: Carson Wentz over Aaron Rodgers. Yiiikes. This is a good line: What does that mean? Wentz Rodgers seems a push at this point. Wentz is doing more, but he’s had to. Rodgers is playing great but he hasn’t been asked to do as much. it means: “Baker sucks, but mah narrative....” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: Not sure if posted or not, but the geniuses at NFL.com have Allen behind Mayfield and Darnold. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001064131/article/qb-index-week-6-russell-wilson-catches-patrick-mahomes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Of course. As we all would. Does anything Allen demonstrates on the field indicate anything positive at all? Why would you even bother to ask such a stupid question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, Bangarang said: Why would you even bother to ask such a stupid question? Because lost in all the over the top criticism of his performance, the good aspects of his play get lost, ignored, or tossed out completely. It’s a legit question for his critics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, LeGOATski said: Yep. But 12th at getting the yards. They (Allen) just need to protect the ball. They're great in the red zone #3 in red zone scoring percentage Believe me the points about us gaining yards and being great in the Redzone aren’t lost on me. We are able to move the ball pretty well but the biggest issue to me seems to be Allen turning the ball over way too many times (which you acknowledged). It’s great that Allen seems to play his best in the 4th quarter but I also don’t want to see bad teams keeping games close because he turns the ball over trying to do too much. At the end of the day winning is what matters most but in order for us to be the kind of team we hope to be under Allen (SB contenders) then he needs to really limit his turnovers. 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: Because lost in all the over the top criticism of his performance, the good aspects of his play get lost, ignored, or tossed out completely. It’s a legit question for his critics. Has my criticism been over the top or ignored the good aspects of his play though? I think I’ve been pretty fair with my praise and criticism of Allen. Edited October 10, 2019 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Believe me the points about us gaining yards and being great in the Redzone aren’t lost on me. We are able to move the ball pretty well but the biggest issue to me seems to be Allen turning the ball over way too many times (which you acknowledged). It’s great that Allen seems to play his best in the 4th quarter but I also don’t want to see bad teams keeping games close because he turns the ball over trying to do too much. At the end of the day winning is what matters most but in order for us to be the kind of team we hope to be under Allen (SB contenders) then he needs to really limit his turnovers. Has my criticism been over the top or ignored the good aspects of his play though? I think I’ve been pretty fair with my praise and criticism of Allen. I can’t speak to all of your praise or criticism of Allen as I haven’t read it all. And I don’t really care one way or the other. What I know is, in this particular exchange, I initially pointed out his high percentage of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives compared to his peers and you saw fit to suggest he wouldn’t even be in those situations if he could put up more points. You took a positive and immediately put a negative spin on it. And so it begged the question. Stupid as you seem fit to make it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: Not sure if posted or not, but the geniuses at NFL.com have Allen behind Mayfield and Darnold. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001064131/article/qb-index-week-6-russell-wilson-catches-patrick-mahomes Define genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, K-9 said: I can’t speak to all of your praise or criticism of Allen as I haven’t read it all. And I don’t really care one way or the other. You don’t know my history of praise and criticism but still asked the question as if I’ve never acknowledged or praised him for anything good he’s done? Quote What I know is, in this particular exchange, I initially pointed out his high percentage of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives compared to his peers and you saw fit to suggest he wouldn’t even be in those situations if he could put up more points. You took a positive and immediately put a negative spin on it. And so it begged the question. Stupid as you seem fit to make it. Is it not a legitimate point? Do you not have a problem with how many times Allen turns the ball over or the fact that we are 26th in the league in points scored at 18 per game? Edited October 10, 2019 by Bangarang 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I crunches the numbers on Allen's YPG, which so far includes two very, very stringent passing defenses and does not include the upcoming two matchups vs the Dolphins. Right now, Allen is averaging 224.5 yards per game. Now, forecast that over the rest of the season (never mind the poor defenses we are looking to play) and that forecasts over 3500 yards. Holy schnikes, I would have cut off a leg in previous seasons to have a QB throw for that many. I remember the calls for the Bills to trade for Cutler or Bradford to get numbers like that. Just to keep things in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Is PFF adjusted completion percentage the same as catchable pass percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I crunches the numbers on Allen's YPG, which so far includes two very, very stringent passing defenses and does not include the upcoming two matchups vs the Dolphins. Right now, Allen is averaging 224.5 yards per game. Now, forecast that over the rest of the season (never mind the poor defenses we are looking to play) and that forecasts over 3500 yards. Holy schnikes, I would have cut off a leg in previous seasons to have a QB throw for that many. I remember the calls for the Bills to trade for Cutler or Bradford to get numbers like that. Just to keep things in perspective. You know times have been rough for us when people are willing to lose limbs just have to have a QB who’s finishes the year in the middle of the pack in passing yards. ill never miss Tyrod throwing for 170 yards in a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Believe me the points about us gaining yards and being great in the Redzone aren’t lost on me. We are able to move the ball pretty well but the biggest issue to me seems to be Allen turning the ball over way too many times (which you acknowledged). It’s great that Allen seems to play his best in the 4th quarter but I also don’t want to see bad teams keeping games close because he turns the ball over trying to do too much. It's way more then Allen turning the ball over. * There have been bad drops. Both our rookie TE's dropped passes that stopped these kinds of drives against TN. * There have been sacks, which sometimes are on Allen but other times on the O-line. * There have been bad penalties. Remember that dead ball PF against Feliciano that took us out of FG range against the Jets? Or those other holding penalties that stalled out drives? * Play calling sometimes gets goofy when we get into this area. Remember the Allen QB sneak on 4th & 2 at TN? Or how about the McKenzie jet sweep on 3rd & 1 against Cincy? The good news is that this is all fixable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Define genius What about the old eyeball test. Give me Allen over mariota any day of the week 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDogg20 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Let the national media hate thats fine. We know who the best qb of last years bunch is and they will find out come January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) At this point give me Allen over the others guys. Better than mariota, time will tell regarding darnold and Mayfield. I follow buffalo from the UK since the Superbowl losses in the 90s. I root for the hope we can win one someday. Allen is similarly easy to root for but time will tell if he's good enough. He's exciting to watch aswell. Darnold may be better but not as exciting. Go bills Edited October 10, 2019 by london_bills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: It's way more then Allen turning the ball over. * There have been bad drops. Both our rookie TE's dropped passes that stopped these kinds of drives against TN. * There have been sacks, which sometimes are on Allen but other times on the O-line. * There have been bad penalties. Remember that dead ball PF against Feliciano that took us out of FG range against the Jets? Or those other holding penalties that stalled out drives? * Play calling sometimes gets goofy when we get into this area. Remember the Allen QB sneak on 4th & 2 at TN? Or how about the McKenzie jet sweep on 3rd & 1 against Cincy? The good news is that this is all fixable. I know it’s not ALL Allen but he is on pace to finish this season with 22 interceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, Bangarang said: You don’t know my history of praise and criticism but still asked the question as if I’ve never acknowledged or praised him for anything good he’s done? Is it not a legitimate point? Do you not have a problem with how many times Allen turns the ball over or the fact that we are 26th in the league in points scored at 18 per game? Your previous praise or criticism is not relevant to the narrow discussion of his 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives relative to his peers that I introduced, so there’s no need to be defensive about it. I have as big a problem with Allen’s turnovers as anyone else. I just don’t have a problem with taking a positive and immediately putting a negative spin on it. You and others apparently do. Enough said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: It's way more then Allen turning the ball over. * There have been bad drops. Both our rookie TE's dropped passes that stopped these kinds of drives against TN. * There have been sacks, which sometimes are on Allen but other times on the O-line. * There have been bad penalties. Remember that dead ball PF against Feliciano that took us out of FG range against the Jets? Or those other holding penalties that stalled out drives? * Play calling sometimes gets goofy when we get into this area. Remember the Allen QB sneak on 4th & 2 at TN? Or how about the McKenzie jet sweep on 3rd & 1 against Cincy? The good news is that this is all fixable. I don't think any of this is all that very surprising given all of the new talent on offense. I think the most frustrating thing for me this season have been the motion penalties on the O line. It seems every time we are already starting deep, we make it deeper. Everything changes when we go first and ten from the 15 to first and 15 from the 10. Drive killers before the drive begins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: You don’t know my history of praise and criticism but still asked the question as if I’ve never acknowledged or praised him for anything good he’s done? Is it not a legitimate point? Do you not have a problem with how many times Allen turns the ball over or the fact that we are 26th in the league in points scored at 18 per game? I'm actually not as concerned as you are in regards to average points in the league. Coaching philosophies dictate that to a large degree. Slower, methodical, offenses score fewer points while giving defenses more time to rest. Pass happy, explosive offenses have their defenses on the field a hullava lot more. Of course, I've always been a disciple of defense. I enjoy 21-17 pt games more than I do 45-38 type games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Pokebball said: I'm actually not as concerned as you are in regards to average points in the league. Coaching philosophies dictate that to a large degree. Slower, methodical, offenses score fewer points while giving defenses more time to rest. Pass happy, explosive offenses have their defenses on the field a hullava lot more. Of course, I've always been a disciple of defense. I enjoy 21-17 pt games more than I do 45-38 type games. You don’t actually believe this right? Ive never heard of an offense who is not trying to score as many points as possible. Isn’t that their job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Bangarang said: ... Is it not a legitimate point? Do you not have a problem with how many times Allen turns the ball over or the fact that we are 26th in the league in points scored at 18 per game? ... i'd say it's still quite early to make an accurate observation with regard to points scored per game. consider that two of our games were against the top rated and sixth rated defenses in points allowed. NE @ 6.8 PPG and Tennessee @15.2 PPG allowed. the kid has just played his 16th game at the pro level, he is progressing by all appearances. can we just calm down a bit and give him a chance to grow into his new shoes a bit here? it has been close to two decades since we have had even a whiff of what we are now experiencing. enjoy it. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Your previous praise or criticism is not relevant to the narrow discussion of his 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives relative to his peers that I introduced, so there’s no need to be defensive about it. I have as big a problem with Allen’s turnovers as anyone else. I just don’t have a problem with taking a positive and immediately putting a negative spin on it. You and others apparently do. Enough said. If anything we at least agree that his turnovers need to be cleaned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Bangarang said: You don’t actually believe this right? Ive never heard of an offense who is not trying to score as many points as possible. Isn’t that their job? Of course every team wants to score on every possession, but that wasn't my point. Many teams don't want to score as fast as they can. They want to use clock, tire out the opposing defense and give their own defense time to rest. Methodical drives down the field are important to winning, and of course winning is everyone's job (rather than scoring as many points as you can). Don't confuse total points scored with the number of possessions a team is given. It's not that I believe it, but rather a fact that game plans exist to limit the number of possessions an opponent gets. You limit the possessions your opponent gets, you limit the possession your offense gets. Edited October 11, 2019 by Pokebball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, thebandit27 said: I'll also say that, regardless of how he played in the first 3 quarters, Josh wins that NE game if he doesn't get hurt Very possible, but that also goes back to how he played against the Titans. He wasn't trying to truck linebackers, he just slid and lived for another down. He has to learn to not always be the hero or the Pats game won't be the only time he leaves the field early. I liked the progress he showed in Tennessee. Now it's a matter of not reverting to old habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, Foxx said: i'd say it's still quite early to make an accurate observation with regard to points scored per game. consider that two of our games were against the top rated and sixth rated defenses in points allowed. NE @ 6.8 PPG and Tennessee @15.2 PPG allowed. the kid has just played his 16th game at the pro level, he is progressing by all appearances. can we just calm down a bit and give him a chance to grow into his new shoes a bit here? it has been close to two decades since we have had even a whiff of what we are now experiencing. enjoy it. It’s definitely still early and things can obviously improve. Our strength of schedule is still in our favor so Allen and the offense should be able to take advantage of these bad teams coming up. And I am giving him a chance to grow. I like a lot of what he’s done. Being desperate for a franchise QB shouldn’t exclude anyone from talking about his weaknesses and how this offense can improve. If I’m going to hype him up as a franchise QB then that’s where the bar is being set. Simply being better than EJ or Tyrod isn’t good enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bangarang said: It’s definitely still early and things can obviously improve. Our strength of schedule is still in our favor so Allen and the offense should be able to take advantage of these bad teams coming up. And I am giving him a chance to grow. I like a lot of what he’s done. Being desperate for a franchise QB shouldn’t exclude anyone from talking about his weaknesses and how this offense can improve. If I’m going to hype him up as a franchise QB then that’s where the bar is being set. Simply being better than EJ or Tyrod isn’t good enough. currently, we sit @ 10th in YPG. all things being equal, the points will come. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Of course every team wants to score on every possession, but that wasn't my point. Many teams don't want to score as fast as they can. They want to use clock, tire out the opposing defense and give their own defense time to rest. Methodical drives down the field are important to winning, and of course winning is everyone's job. Scoring as many points as you can is the point of the offense. I’m not so sure they care if it takes them 3 plays or 15. Working the clock has its place but I don’t agree that many teams would rather drag out drives. If you have a source for that I’d love to read about it. 1 minute ago, Foxx said: currently, we sit @ 10th in YPG. all things being equal, the points will come. that’s what I’m hoping for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 So...10% higher than last year? Whodathunkit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Scoring as many points as you can is the point of the offense. I’m not so sure they care if it takes them 3 plays or 15. Working the clock has its place but I don’t agree that many teams would rather drag out drives. If you have a source for that I’d love to read about it. When does working the clock have it's place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Pokebball said: When does working the clock have it's place? When you’re winning.. Edited October 11, 2019 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) Just now, Bangarang said: When you’re winning.. Rest my case Edited October 11, 2019 by Pokebball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Just now, Pokebball said: Rest my case What? I think you’re confused here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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