chris heff Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: Call me crazy but I think that a billionaire getting a "rub" in a massage parlor might be a bit more safe than sex with a heroin shooting prostitute. He got himself arrested and embarrassed. I’ll reiterate, he’s a billionaire, he couldn’t get a professional to come to the house or a hotel? Instead he goes to an Asian Massage in a strip mall? It’s the definition of stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Name the names or no story. Was there a second source? If true name the names and address it. If not, what is the objective of the story? If you go back to the OP and look at the link, the objective becomes clear (I personally wouldn't use up a freebie if you don't subscribe) The objective of the story is to report upon a sex trafficking and narcotics conspiracy case against Valentino Shine Sr. in Federal Court. The OP is concerned about one line in the story, where a witness reports she had Bills and Sabres players as clients. The witness was not named because she is considered a victim, and the players were not named because the Johns don't seem to be the target of the trial. Nothin' to see here move along. 53 minutes ago, ALF said: Harbor center Marriott opened in Nov 2014 " but that she did sometimes meet "professional athletes" at the Marriott Harborcenter hotel.'' I thought the opening was summer of 2015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I thought the opening was summer of 2015? you are right The Buffalo Marriott HarborCenter opened for business on August 27, 2015. https://news.wbfo.org/post/harborcenter-marriott-opens-business . A two floor 716 Food and Sport restaurant opened on October 31, 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 37 minutes ago, chris heff said: He got himself arrested and embarrassed. I’ll reiterate, he’s a billionaire, he couldn’t get a professional to come to the house or a hotel? Instead he goes to an Asian Massage in a strip mall? It’s the definition of stupid. Oh I didn't say it was a smart move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: And so do people who drink coffee or eat chocolate. This is nonsense. There's no reason to exaggerate the point here. Bills players involved in prostitution, ok sure. Bills players involved in human trafficking, yea not unless OJ found a new hobby. Reductio ad absudum. And, to address your hypothetical, the purchase of services such as those in question from an intermediary are much more directly supporting something that has a much more direct link with human trafficking. At bottom you and I have a difference of opinion that is grounded in our varying morals and values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-evander-kane-professes-innocence-ive-done-nothing-wrong/ Evander Kane did live in a suite in the HarborCenter Marriott. According to the paper, police seized Kane’s sport utility vehicle and also searched his suite inside the Marriott HarborCenter, the hotel connected to the First Niagara Center where Kane lives. Edited September 14, 2019 by I am the egg man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Reductio ad absudum. And, to address your hypothetical, the purchase of services such as those in question from an intermediary are much more directly supporting something that has a much more direct link with human trafficking. At bottom you and I have a difference of opinion that is grounded in our varying morals and values. I don't doubt that we have a different set of morals and how we apply them to ethics but that's not what's at play here. The Author, the OP, and by extension you, seem to be willing to place blame for a crime on customers of a service of which it's highly likely that they have no direct knowledge of. Now if you were to tell me that they were aware of the circumstances, or even sought out such circumstances, ala Epstein, that would be a different matter entirely. I see no evidence presented in this article to even indicate that was remotely the case. What I see is a woman with a drug problem and a pimp that enabled it and then leveraged it. Pretty classic story here. This isn't about a girl kidnapped from a small mid-west town and sold on an underground chinese black-market. My statement about coffee and chocolate hardly seems absurd to me. If you really want to look into where the things you buy come from: clothes, electronics, textiles, etc let alone more dubious products and services like drugs and sex, you could draw a lot of lines from decent upstanding people who pay their taxes, love their family and support their community, to international crime, human trafficking and defacto or even literal slavery. Edited September 14, 2019 by BullBuchanan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 21 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Reductio ad absudum. And, to address your hypothetical, the purchase of services such as those in question from an intermediary are much more directly supporting something that has a much more direct link with human trafficking. At bottom you and I have a difference of opinion that is grounded in our varying morals and values. Prostitution does not become human trafficking based on the subjective morality of third-party observers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rob's House said: Prostitution does not become human trafficking based on the subjective morality of third-party observers. Prostitution has always been "human trafficking" according to the strict definition of "trafficking," which is "dealing in something illegal." I suspect they are going with "human trafficking" rather than "prostitution" for sensationalism reasons. But it's prostitution and if the NFL didn't care about Bobby, they shouldn't care here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 And that's why we need a wall! To stop exploited people being smuggled here from *reads article*..."all from Western New York"? I guess that Wall better be between the city limits and the suburbs.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Who cares? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Doc said: Prostitution has always been "human trafficking" according to the strict definition of "trafficking," which is "dealing in something illegal." I suspect they are going with "human trafficking" rather than "prostitution" for sensationalism reasons. But it's prostitution and if the NFL didn't care about Bobby, they shouldn't care here. Trafficking implies an organized operation, and in the context of human trafficking it implies involuntary servitude. The terms may overlap, but they are far from synonymous. The writer is a sanctimonious prick who is trying to portray a garden variety 40-something crack ***** as a kidnapped teenage sex slave. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rob's House said: Trafficking implies an organized operation, and in the context of human trafficking it implies involuntary servitude. The terms may overlap, but they are far from synonymous. The writer is a sanctimonious prick who is trying to portray a garden variety 40-something crack ***** as a kidnapped teenage sex slave. Yeah, guy sounds more like a pimp than a “human trafficker” to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: I can understand why some people might choose to avoid serious conversation regarding this scourge. What's really important is how the worldwide trafficking of young girls and boys might taint our teams' reputation. Gotcha. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, Rob's House said: Trafficking implies an organized operation, and in the context of human trafficking it implies involuntary servitude. The terms may overlap, but they are far from synonymous. Correct. We've seen a lot of reports lately calling things "trafficking" because it's more shocking. And when you dig deeper, the justification for calling it "trafficking" is something on the order of "she was so psychologically dominated by [pimp/madam] that she was unable to leave." I'm not saying this doesn't exist; in fact, my impression is it definitely does. But it's not the same thing as the classic (and typically legal) definition of "trafficking," in which, for example, we see workers brought to a rural labor farm camp where they're housed and not paid until their debt to the smuggler is paid off -- involuntary servitude. Or where young women are promised work visas for some legitimate business and then redirected to a prostitution business, again with barriers set up to ensure that they don't leave and not just psychological pressure. It's an important distinction, and not one that any decent reporter should gloss over. By the way, I like how the pimp is "Sr.", implying that his noble name has been passed along to the next generation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Doc said: Prostitution has always been "human trafficking" according to the strict definition of "trafficking," which is "dealing in something illegal." I suspect they are going with "human trafficking" rather than "prostitution" for sensationalism reasons. But it's prostitution and if the NFL didn't care about Bobby, they shouldn't care here. Sex is not technically illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 4 hours ago, I am the egg man said: http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-evander-kane-professes-innocence-ive-done-nothing-wrong/ Evander Kane did live in a suite in the HarborCenter Marriott. According to the paper, police seized Kane’s sport utility vehicle and also searched his suite inside the Marriott HarborCenter, the hotel connected to the First Niagara Center where Kane lives. If there are names with evidence, then name them. Without the details speculation leads to potentially innocent people being named. Is that fair? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Yeah, guy sounds more like a pimp than a “human trafficker” to me. Pimps traffic woman too Most prostitutes ARENT doing it by themselves. They were forced into it by pimps with no way out Trafficked Edited September 14, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Sex is not technically illegal. Paying for/selling it isnt'? That's news to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Doc said: Paying for/selling it isnt'? That's news to me. Legal in some places. But that is not your question. I also think dealing and trafficking are not true synonyms. The phrase human trafficking is used to mean someone being compelled against their will to do something. It is possible for an adult to make a decision to engage in prostitution completely voluntarily. I would to split hairs finely, someone voluntarily being a prostitute is "tracking in prostitution" but not "human trafficking" as everyone understands that phrase to mean. Based on whats is presented in the article, it appears that the prostitutes were compelled by a third party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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