End of the game decisions.

[chris heff]

This may be a very short thread, but here goes. On the Bills last possession the Bills took over on downs, ran the ball three times to about the Jets 35. Why not try a 52 yard FG? Then the Jets would need a TD. I know I know, their kicker (now cut) was, to put it mildly, struggling, but why chance it? The decision is made to punt, but why not take delay of game penalty? The ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. After touch back Jets got the ball on the twenty with 12 seconds, should have been 2 or 3 seconds, just saying.

Edited September 10, 2019 by chris heff

[BillsFanSD]

I disagree strongly with this one.  Take the time off the clock, punt the ball out of the back of the end zone, and make them do something with under 30 seconds left to go and no time outs.  A missed FG gives them good field position, and runs the risk of a blocked kick or botched snap.  They handled this situation exactly right IMO.

[WhoTom]

I can't remember what the 3rd down play was, but if the game clock was running prior to the punt, then I agree - either take the delay of game or at least wait until it's at 0:01 before the snap.

 

But the decision to punt was the right one. Miss the 52-yarder and you leave the Jets in good field position when all they need is a FG. Punt it, give them a longer field, and let the defense seal the deal.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

McDermott absolutely played that right.  Why question it now? 

[CardinalScotts]

McD doesn't get schooled on strategy I dont even worry about it. He knows his team, he knows his opponent and is prepared.

[chris heff]

9 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

I can't remember what the 3rd down play was, but if the game clock was running prior to the punt, then I agree - either take the delay of game or at least wait until it's at 0:01 before the snap.

 

But the decision to punt was the right one. Miss the 52-yarder and you leave the Jets in good field position when all they need is a FG. Punt it, give them a longer field, and let the defense seal the deal.

 

 

I get the punt, but I watched it three times, the ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. Why not take the penalty? Still going to kick the ball out of the end zone.

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, chris heff said:

This may be a very short thread, but here goes. On the Bills last possession the Bills took over on downs, ran the ball three times to about the Jets 35. Why not try a 52 yard FG? Then the Jets would need a TD. I know I know, their kicker (now cut) was, to put it mildly, struggling, but why chance it? The decision is made to punt, but why not take delay of game penalty? The ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. After touch back Jets got the ball on the twenty with 12 seconds, should have been 2 or 3 seconds, just saying.

 

I thought punting out of the endzone was 100% the right call. And while there were 16 second on the play clock the game clock was stopped. We let it run all the way down and then took a time out before we punted so we drained maximum time off the clock. 

 

The reason you don't try a field goal from 52 is if you miss it they are one decent completion from a shot to tie the game. The percentage play is punt it but make sure there is no chance of a miracle return. Let them start at the 25 and then play 1 down of solid defense plus one down of silly lateral play and get out with the win. 

 

The Bills played that perfectly. 

2 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I get the punt, but I watched it three times, the ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. Why not take the penalty? Still going to kick the ball out of the end zone.

 

The play clock was irrelvant. It was after a time out. So the game clock was stopped. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by GunnerBill

[chris heff]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought punting out of the endzone was 100% the right call. And while there were 16 second on the play clock the game clock was stopped. We let it run all the way down and then took a time out before we punted so we drained maximum time off the clock. 

 

The reason you don't try a field goal from 52 is if you miss it they are one decent completion from a shot to tie the game. The percentage play is punt it but make sure there is no chance of a miracle return. Let them start at the 25 and then play 1 down of solid defense plus one down of silly lateral play and get out with the win. 

 

The Bills played that perfectly. 

 

The play clock was irrelvant. It was after a time out. So the game clock was stopped. 

You have to be right about the time out, other wise it’s stupid. I was watching condensed version must have missed it. All I saw was both clocks moving. Like I said short thread.

[SteveFreeman22]

52 yarder is no gimmie, chance of it getting bglocked increases the further out you go

[mikemac2001]

This is just dumb 

 

they played the odds no coach kicks that 

[PromoTheRobot]

58 minutes ago, chris heff said:

This may be a very short thread, but here goes. On the Bills last possession the Bills took over on downs, ran the ball three times to about the Jets 35. Why not try a 52 yard FG? Then the Jets would need a TD. I know I know, their kicker (now cut) was, to put it mildly, struggling, but why chance it? The decision is made to punt, but why not take delay of game penalty? The ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. After touch back Jets got the ball on the twenty with 12 seconds, should have been 2 or 3 seconds, just saying.

 

Is it not obvious? Tough FG. You miss it, you give the Jets a really short field for their own winning FG. Yes, I know. Vedvick would likely miss from 10 yards away, but he might have gotten lucky.

[Dadonkadonk]

If it is a 25 yard FG yes you kick it.  A 52 yard kick no way.  If he misses the kick they get the ball at the spot of the FG.  They then only need to go about 20 yards to get in FG range and you risk losing the game.  You win 99.999% of the time punting the ball there.  You can't take a knee or risk an incompletion there.  You should try getting the first down running as they did. 

[DCbillsfan]

38 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I get the punt, but I watched it three times, the ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. Why not take the penalty? Still going to kick the ball out of the end zone.

The Bills called a timeout after 3rd down.  They let the play clock run down to 1 second and there was 19 seconds on the game clock when they called timeout.  Then they punted into the end zone.  Jets 1st and 10 at their 20 with 12 seconds to go and no timeouts.  McD played it right.

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

The Bills called a timeout after 3rd down.  They let the play clock run down to 1 second and there was 19 seconds on the game clock when they called timeout.  Then they punted into the end zone.  Jets 1st and 10 at their 20 with 12 seconds to go and no timeouts.  McD played it right.

Indeed. If getting super technical I might say just take the penalty and save the timeout but splitting hairs pretty thin at that point 

[Bills Analyst]

2 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

The Bills called a timeout after 3rd down.  They let the play clock run down to 1 second and there was 19 seconds on the game clock when they called timeout.  Then they punted into the end zone.  Jets 1st and 10 at their 20 with 12 seconds to go and no timeouts.  McD played it right.

It was the right sequence,  but why take the time out?  Let the extra second run off the clock, take the 5 yard penalty and still kick it out of the end zone.  

[LSHMEAB]

56 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

I can't remember what the 3rd down play was, but if the game clock was running prior to the punt, then I agree - either take the delay of game or at least wait until it's at 0:01 before the snap.

 

But the decision to punt was the right one. Miss the 52-yarder and you leave the Jets in good field position when all they need is a FG. Punt it, give them a longer field, and let the defense seal the deal.

 

 

Uh yeah. I really can't believe anyone would think otherwise WRT to attempting a 52 yarder. That would have been a fireable offense. McDermott doesn't mess around with that kind of nonsense late in games. He's been solid since he's been here in terms of end of game decisions(sans the Indy punt which was really only a poor decision based on the standings.)

 

Edit; I think there MAY be some merit to the idea of taking the penalty because I believe there would have been a 10 second runoff. Never quite sure of that rule. I know that if the clock was stopped, it doesn't come into play. But following a run? Not quite sure if there would have been the 10 second runoff, but if that's the case, should have done that. No major problems, but I'm curious about the details of the rule in that situation.

Edited September 10, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[CaptnCoke11]

They were out of timeouts.  McDermott did the right thing.  If they had a timeout or two in that scenario he might kick it who knows.  

[DCbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, bmacdona said:

It was the right sequence,  but why take the time out?  Let the extra second run off the clock, take the 5 yard penalty and still kick it out of the end zone.  

He wanted to make sure Bojo reached the end zone.  ?

[chris heff]

3 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

The Bills called a timeout after 3rd down.  They let the play clock run down to 1 second and there was 19 seconds on the game clock when they called timeout.  Then they punted into the end zone.  Jets 1st and 10 at their 20 with 12 seconds to go and no timeouts.  McD played it right.

I’m not disagreeing, but the result of the punt was 15 yards. What was more important field position or time? Was there a call that would have run off more time? Probably not

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’m not disagreeing, but the result of the punt was 15 yards. What was more important field position or time? Was there a call that would have run off more time? Probably not

You want Bojo dancing around back there for a few seconds? I'm cool NOT seeing that.

[DCbillsfan]

8 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’m not disagreeing, but the result of the punt was 15 yards. What was more important field position or time? Was there a call that would have run off more time? Probably not

I hear you.  If it was a shorter FG, 35 yards or less, McD may have gone FG but in this situation he wanted his defense on the field to seal the game.

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Is it not obvious? Tough FG. You miss it, you give the Jets a really short field for their own winning FG. Yes, I know. Vedvick would likely miss from 10 yards away, but he might have gotten lucky.

 

As a true Bills fan, I thought for sure that jamoke would kick a long FG to win the game as time expired, ripping my heart out once again.    

 

I guess I've seen that movie too many times over the years to not worry about it...

[chris heff]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

You want Bojo dancing around back there for a few seconds? I'm cool NOT seeing that.

No I was thinking Gore running around. Probably the wrong call. I just have an aversion to punts from the 35, who did that St. Doug?

[DCbillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

As a true Bills fan, I thought for sure that jamoke would kick a long FG to win the game as time expired, ripping my heart out once again.    

 

I guess I've seen that movie too many times over the years to not worry about it...

Yeah no kidding.  Right there with you.  Saints Texans game showed how crazy things can happen.

[WhoTom]

10 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’m not disagreeing, but the result of the punt was 15 yards. What was more important field position or time?

 

With just 16 seconds on the clock, an extra 15 yards is huge. Plus, the punt took off at least as much time as a FG, if not longer, so for both criteria, the punt was the right call.

 

 

[Simon]

15 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Indeed. If getting super technical I might say just take the penalty and save the timeout but splitting hairs pretty thin at that point 

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was about to post. Take the delay to milk every single second you can, keep the TO in your pocket in the event of a blocked punt/TD or some other Billsy situation and also give your punter a little room to work with if Gase doesn't decline the penalty.

But that's just me being picayune

[TheBrownBear]

15 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

He wanted to make sure Bojo reached the end zone.  ?

 

 

Haha.  That's what I was honestly thinking.  I was like "Why isn't McDermott taking the 5 yards and extra second?".  Then I was like, "Probably wants to be certain the punter can reach the end zone."

[LSHMEAB]

9 minutes ago, chris heff said:

No I was thinking Gore running around. Probably the wrong call. I just have an aversion to punts from the 35, who did that St. Doug?

15 yards is more important than you think in that particular situation. One long, lucky out and they have an outside shot at a field goal, or even a hail mary. God forbid Bojo actually pinned them deep, but he could have.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

I get the punt, but I watched it three times, the ball was snapped with 16 seconds on the play clock. Why not take the penalty? Still going to kick the ball out of the end zone.

 

Im not sure youre looking at the clock you think you are? I distinctly remember everyone at the table talking about the time at the end of the game, and that there was a 15 second difference between the game clock and play clock. I'm pretty sure they did milk the play clock to take the game clock as low as they could.

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

 

 

Haha.  That's what I was honestly thinking.  I was like "Why isn't McDermott taking the 5 yards and extra second?".  Then I was like, "Probably wants to be certain the punter can reach the end zone."

I think if you want to get into McDermott's head and extrapolate something really off the wall, he might have worried there'd be an issue with the snap and the extra 5 yards could make a difference.

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Im not sure youre looking at the clock you think you are? I distinctly remember everyone at the table talking about the time at the end of the game, and that there was a 15 second difference between the game clock and play clock. I'm pretty sure they did milk the play clock to take the game clock as low as they could.

But do you know if there's a 10 second runoff there for an offensive penalty? I've heard some strategists tinker around with the idea of committing a penalty on every play. Maybe it doesn't apply to a delay of game penalty.

[msw2112]

McD has improved his game management substantially since he first became a head coach.  He made some questionable decisions in the past on the use of timeouts, replay challenges, clock management, etc.  I think that he knew he had room for improvement and he took measures to improve.  He managed Sunday's game, including the final minutes, perfectly and exactly as he should have.  He milked the play clock down as far as possible.  Yes, he could have taken the 5 yard penalty vs. the timeout, but there were good reasons for taking the timeout.  Not attempting a long FG was absolutely the right  call.  Miss that kick and you are in much greater danger of losing the game than if you punt.  Plus, even if you make the FG, you then have to kick off to the other team, risking the chance of a KO return.  A KO return for a TD is more probable than a drive for a score from the 20 yard line with 12 seconds left and no TOs.

Edited September 11, 2019 by msw2112

[Utah John]

38 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

If it is a 25 yard FG yes you kick it.  A 52 yard kick no way.  If he misses the kick they get the ball at the spot of the FG.  They then only need to go about 20 yards to get in FG range and you risk losing the game.  You win 99.999% of the time punting the ball there.  You can't take a knee or risk an incompletion there.  You should try getting the first down running as they did. 

If it's a 25 yard FG, you're on their 7.  What you do is snap the ball on fourth down and run around as long as possible, maybe until the game clock runs out.  Even if you lose 10 yards they have no time for their offense.

[1ManRaid]

When they are averaging 3.4 yards per play with time not on their side, you give them the long field.  You don't risk giving them a short field to get lucky with.

6 minutes ago, Utah John said:

If it's a 25 yard FG, you're on their 7.  What you do is snap the ball on fourth down and run around as long as possible, maybe until the game clock runs out.  Even if you lose 10 yards they have no time for their offense.

Is that the situation where you have the entire offense clutch onto a defender each and pull them onto the ground to run out the clock?  I think I saw the Ravens do that.  Well someone did that once.

[Utah John]

3 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

When they are averaging 3.4 yards per play with time not on their side, you give them the long field.  You don't risk giving them a short field to get lucky with.

Is that the situation where you have the entire offense clutch onto a defender each and pull them onto the ground to run out the clock?  I think I saw the Ravens do that.  Well someone did that once.

And why not?  You're only going to get one penalty for holding, and the game will be over so who cares about the penalty in the first place?

[1ManRaid]

3 minutes ago, Utah John said:

And why not?  You're only going to get one penalty for holding, and the game will be over so who cares about the penalty in the first place?

It would be even better if you could get the D to commit a penalty like hands to the face (trying to escape the holding) to offset the team hold and play the down again.

[Simon]

Just now, 1ManRaid said:

It would be even better if you could get the D to commit a penalty like hands to the face (trying to escape the holding) to offset the team hold and play the down again.

 

Not to mention the 6 unsportsmanlikes that are going to get called when it turns into a full field melee of pissed off division rivals.

[1ManRaid]

Just now, Simon said:

 

Not to mention the 6 unsportsmanlikes that are going to get called when it turns into a full field melee of pissed off division rivals.

Yeah I considered that but figured that would be an "after the play" penalty and only affect field position, not replay the down.  Suspensions would help though.

[ToughTasker]

Agree with the second part of the op. It isn’t a field goal situation, but you certainly run down the clock and take the penalty. Then if there are less than 4 seconds left you can simply snap the ball and run around to 00. 

 

I didnt understand the hurry to punt. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by ToughTasker

[Bangarang]

Some of you would be worse HCs than Hue Jackson.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

I’m not disagreeing, but the result of the punt was 15 yards. What was more important field position or time? Was there a call that would have run off more time? Probably not

 

Bojo skyed that kick for maximum hang time, burned 4-5 more seconds. That’s a play for the jets.