Eye-opening piece about QBs and baseball

[dave mcbride]

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/nfl/kryk-most-top-nfl-qbs-played-shortstop-growing-up

[JaCrispy]

Yup I have thought this for a while...I believe JA played baseball too- a pitcher perhaps?

[Punching Bag]

?

Of course Jim Kelly was a maverick and did not play baseball. 

 

[Gugny]

Very interesting.  At first, I was kind of shocked because the listed a lot of big QBs and, traditionally, SS is not played by big dudes.

 

Reading through, however, most of the big QBs "played some SS," so the writer kind of forced his point.

 

I think it makes sense that some of the fundamentals from baseball translate into, not only QB, but to football, in general.  The basic, "sports stance," is relevant in baseball, football, basketball and even wrestling.  Staying square whilst moving laterally - that's good form in many sports.

 

The throwing on the run piece is what's a little different.

 

Since Mahomes "took the world by storm" with his no look passes, etc., people have been talking about the baseball link and - in the end - I think that's the only reason this article was written.

 

I think the more accurate connection would be to say that most/all elite QBs also excelled at other sports before becoming professional football players.

 

Great read, though, and thanks for sharing!!

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Very interesting.  At first, I was kind of shocked because the listed a lot of big QBs and, traditionally, SS is not played by big dudes.

 

Reading through, however, most of the big QBs "played some SS," so the writer kind of forced his point.

 

I think it makes sense that some of the fundamentals from baseball translate into, not only QB, but to football, in general.  The basic, "sports stance," is relevant in baseball, football, basketball and even wrestling.  Staying square whilst moving laterally - that's good form in many sports.

 

The throwing on the run piece is what's a little different.

 

Since Mahomes "took the world by storm" with his no look passes, etc., people have been talking about the baseball link and - in the end - I think that's the only reason this article was written.

 

I think the more accurate connection would be to say that most/all elite QBs also excelled at other sports before becoming professional football players.

 

Great read, though, and thanks for sharing!!

My pleasure! Did you see the Gil Brandt quote about always avoiding right fielders (a big-arm position that requires a wind up)? Josh A played RF (along with pitcher and first base). ? (I don’t read too much into this factoid!)

Edited September 2, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

My pleasure! Did you see the Gil Brandt quote about always avoiding right fielders (a big-arm position)? Josh A played RF (along with pitcher and first base). ?

 

LOL, yes I did see that!!

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup I have thought this for a while...I believe JA played baseball too- a pitcher perhaps?

He was a good pitcher, throwing in the low 90s in HS (which is really fast for HS).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup I have thought this for a while...I believe JA played baseball too- a pitcher perhaps?

 

Says later on in the article: "Buffalo’s Josh Allen, who when he wasn’t pitching in high school in Firebaugh, Calif., played first base and right field, where he said in an interview he’d charge liners and try to gun down runners at first"

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

?

Of course Jim Kelly was a maverick and did not play baseball. 

 

What was unique about Kelly coming out of HS is that he was a genuinely elite HS defensive player, evidenced by his being recruited as a LB by Joe Pa, the coach at Linebacker U. Playing LB at a high level also brings a highly useful skill set to any prospective qb.

Edited September 2, 2019 by dave mcbride

[BuffaloRebound]

Correlation does not equal causation.  QB’s are usually your best athletes that can also throw.  SS’s are also usually your best athletes that can throw.  Not sure playing SS helps you play QB other than the fact that there’s overlap in required skill set.  

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Correlation does not equal causation.  QB’s are usually your best athletes that can also throw.  SS’s are also usually your best athletes that can throw.  Not sure playing SS helps you play QB other than the fact that there’s overlap in required skill set.  

Well, virtually every qb quoted here - and there are a lot of good ones - said that playing SS helped them immensely, and Gil Brandt seems to think it helps ...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Correlation does not equal causation.  QB’s are usually your best athletes that can also throw.  SS’s are also usually your best athletes that can throw.  Not sure playing SS helps you play QB other than the fact that there’s overlap in required skill set.  

 

My first thought was similar;  short stop is where the best bb players want to play, and since the best athletes make the NFL those same best athletes probably got to play SS in baseball. 

 

Im betting a very high percentage of nfl players were QB or RB as kids, no matter what they are now.

 

i also suspect just about any skill position player in the NFL played ‘some’ shortstop if they played baseball. 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

39 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

What was unique about Kelly coming out of HS is that he was a genuinely elite HS defensive player, evidenced by his being recruited as a LB by Joe Pa, the coach at Linebacker U. Playing LB at a high level also brings a highly useful skill set to any prospective qb.

Needless to say the Other Josh never played LB, evidenced by his inability to see that linebacker is after his scrawny butt.

[Real McClappy]

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Very interesting.  At first, I was kind of shocked because the listed a lot of big QBs and, traditionally, SS is not played by big dudes.

 

Reading through, however, most of the big QBs "played some SS," so the writer kind of forced his point.

 

I think it makes sense that some of the fundamentals from baseball translate into, not only QB, but to football, in general.  The basic, "sports stance," is relevant in baseball, football, basketball and even wrestling.  Staying square whilst moving laterally - that's good form in many sports.

 

The throwing on the run piece is what's a little different.

 

Since Mahomes "took the world by storm" with his no look passes, etc., people have been talking about the baseball link and - in the end - I think that's the only reason this article was written.

 

I think the more accurate connection would be to say that most/all elite QBs also excelled at other sports before becoming professional football players.

 

Great read, though, and thanks for sharing!!

 

Yeah, it isn’t  a stretch to think that a person who is athletic enough to play QB in the NFL also played the position in baseball that typically requires the most athleticism. 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Thank you to baseball for helping the NFL get some talent that can physically play the QB position.

 

I shudder to think of some of the QB prospects I "evaluated" back in the 1990's...........it was disgusting.

 

We have a faction of folks on here who think baseball is a dying sport but in reality enrollment in youth baseball is growing rapidly (LL enrollment alone is up around 2.7 million kids since 2014.....which is an incredible amount.....and doesn't account for competing leagues like Cal Ripken and travel ball).

 

With more players and the ability to learn how to play the game quickly thanks to newly available technology the skill at the top levels of baseball has increased more over the past 25 years than any of the other big 4 sports.........even basketball.

 

And ultimately it's a great sport to develop physical skills at a young age without causing much wear and tear.

 

But with international markets also expanding there is a bottleneck at the process of getting into and developing in pro baseball.

 

That's where football and the QB position come in............high paying job,  lot's of glory and no excess of supply.  

 

It's only fitting that the NFL has yet again found another partner to develop it's talent for free.

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Correlation does not equal causation.  QB’s are usually your best athletes that can also throw.  SS’s are also usually your best athletes that can throw.  Not sure playing SS helps you play QB other than the fact that there’s overlap in required skill set.  

I was going to write something similar.

 

The NFL is littered with phenomenal athletes, at all positions, who had one thing in common: they were the star QB of their high school team.  

 

Does that somehow correlate to their current positions?  

 

Good athletes play sports and the best kids on the team play the key positions.

 

 

[djp14150]

This is nothing new.....

 

in the last25 yrs the best athlete on a baseball team was usually a SS who had speed and strong arm stretch to throw.

 

being a QB...you need a strong arm and like a SS you throw in the run 

[MDH]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, virtually every qb quoted here - and there are a lot of good ones - said that playing SS helped them immensely, and Gil Brandt seems to think it helps ...

 

Shortstop is all about footwork, which is why your best athlete usually plays there.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/nfl/kryk-most-top-nfl-qbs-played-shortstop-growing-up

 

..very interesting find bud........is it agility combined with quickness to read & react?.....both are vital components to their teams with those traits being a priority....

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

What was unique about Kelly coming out of HS is that he was a genuinely elite HS defensive player, evidenced by his being recruited as a LB by Joe Pa, the coach at Linebacker U. Playing LB at a high level also brings a highly useful skill set to any prospective qb.

 

I think he was just looking for another TE for Sandusky.

[JoPar_v2]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Correlation does not equal causation.  QB’s are usually your best athletes that can also throw.  SS’s are also usually your best athletes that can throw.  Not sure playing SS helps you play QB other than the fact that there’s overlap in required skill set.  

 

This. When I played the best athletes played SS, CF or catcher in baseball. Same guys usually played QB in football, unless they were on the shorter side. The article doesn’t seem too surprising to me.

[dave mcbride]

A lot of people seem here to seem to think that the best athletes in the NFL were playing SS in HS (hence—and contra Gil Brandt, who knows a little something about evaluation—the shaky “correlation does not equal causation” claims). News flash: most weren’t. None of the D-linemen were, and many of the most famous WRs/DBs were failed basketball prospects (too short,  basically - Moulds, TO, etc.) who were playing in environments where baseball wasn’t really a major talent sponge at the HS level. I also expect that very few of the TEs and almost none of the LBs/RBs were either.  Moreover, you have to be able to THROW HARD AND ACCURATELY to be any good at SS.  You do not have to throw hard and accurately at ANY position in football except the QB position. Footwork is one thing, but if you can’t throw really well, you are worthless as a baseball player.

2 hours ago, MDH said:

 

Shortstop is all about footwork, which is why your best athlete usually plays there.

It’s just as much about throwing. You can have the best footwork in the world, but if you can throw accurately and with velocity, you won’t be playing SS.

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..very interesting find bud........is it agility combined with quickness to read & react?.....both are vital components to their teams with those traits being a priority....

Yeah, i think so, but also having the ability to throw accurately off balance. Good baseball programs teach that relentlessly at the SS position.

Edited September 2, 2019 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Thank you to baseball for helping the NFL get some talent that can physically play the QB position.

 

I shudder to think of some of the QB prospects I "evaluated" back in the 1990's...........it was disgusting.

 

We have a faction of folks on here who think baseball is a dying sport but in reality enrollment in youth baseball is growing rapidly (LL enrollment alone is up around 2.7 million kids since 2014.....which is an incredible amount.....and doesn't account for competing leagues like Cal Ripken and travel ball).

 

With more players and the ability to learn how to play the game quickly thanks to newly available technology the skill at the top levels of baseball has increased more over the past 25 years than any of the other big 4 sports.........even basketball.

 

And ultimately it's a great sport to develop physical skills at a young age without causing much wear and tear.

 

But with international markets also expanding there is a bottleneck at the process of getting into and developing in pro baseball.

 

That's where football and the QB position come in............high paying job,  lot's of glory and no excess of supply.  

 

It's only fitting that the NFL has yet again found another partner to develop it's talent for free.

Murray is the ultimate case in point here. Who knows if he would have even made the majors beyond a few September call-ups? In the NFL, he is already starting!

[LSHMEAB]

Makes perfect sense really. The keys to playing SS are anticipation, instinct, lateral movement, and the ability to throw multiple speeds from multiple distances to multiple targets(first, second, third, and home) QUICKLY. 

 

Stands to reason that this experience as a kid would be beneficial all the way through the ranks for a quarterback. Can't really think of a more apt positional sports comparison than SS and QB.

 

People would probably just assume a QB was an elite pitcher, but pitching doesn't require the same level of movement and anticipation. Throwing from a more or less stationary position just isn't the same thing. Many, many QB's with big arms have come and gone in the league. If you combine the instinct and anticipation required to excel at short with a big arm, much lower fail rate.

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I think he was just looking for another TE for Sandusky.

Too soon.

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He was a good pitcher, throwing in the low 90s in HS (which is really fast for HS).

Yeh ?you’re throwing 90+ in HS you can get drafted 

[MDH]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

 

It’s just as much about throwing. You can have the best footwork in the world, but if you can throw accurately and with velocity, you won’t be playing SS.

 

 

Throwing accuracy has a lot to do with footwork. If your lower body isn't positioned properly the ball isn't going where you want it to. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Short stops are usually your best athlete in youth ball so it’s not surprising.

[row_33]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

Very interesting.  At first, I was kind of shocked because the listed a lot of big QBs and, traditionally, SS is not played by big dudes.

 

 

 

some shortstops were of size, Banks and Cal Jr were up there for their day

 

couldn't convince a friend that Jim Fregosi was a SS in his day, Jim wasn't lacking in the gut during his Jays managerial stint