dgrochester55 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) So a marginal quarterback who is just a notch above EJ Manuel finds early success due to his great defense leading them to a super bowl but two years later is on the way out. He finds a social cause to latch on to for whatever reason was in his heart in a timely manner, and ends up with a nike contract and a settlement? Good for him, but that does not make him a hero or martyr. Shrewd? Lucky? opportunistic? Maybe, but certainly not a victim. Edited February 17, 2019 by dgrochester55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Heitz said: This thread Twitter is a good read. This TBD thread is mostly not... Most of the tweet thread is correct, except for this: Quote And even at the end, everything wasn’t necessarily smooth sailing. At the heart of Kaepernick’s claim is the idea that owners wanted to ruin him because he shined a light on racial injustice. Who do you think will be on the right side of history on that one? That's Kaep's claim, but it's only part true. The owners' blackballed him because he was using the NFL's stage for a personal protest. Any company would fire a person for doing that, and a new employer would also be very wary of hiring that person if he said in the interview that he would continue the personal protest on the new job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, GG said: Most of the tweet thread is correct, except for this: That's Kaep's claim, but it's only part true. The owners' blackballed him because he was using the NFL's stage for a personal protest. Any company would fire a person for doing that, and a new employer would also be very wary of hiring that person if he said in the interview that he would continue the personal protest on the new job. No, they blackballed him because (a) Trump told them to, (b) a significant percentage of the owners (e.g., Jones, McNair, Kraft, etc) are reactionary, authoritarian MAGA-morons, and (c) they are cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, GG said: Most of the tweet thread is correct, except for this: The author forgets to mention that the 49ers Super Bowl birth was more about their defense than Kaepernick. He also fails to realize that there are other reasons for Kaepernick to settle (other than a "massive offer"), such as the distinct possibility that he might not have a strong case, and he might not win. Settlements are both sides hedging their bets, nothing more. Just now, mannc said: No, they blackballed him because (a) Trump told them to, (b) a significant percentage of the owners (e.g., Jones, McNair, Kraft, etc) are reactionary, authoritarian MAGA-morons, and (c) they are cowards. Or d.) his level of play doesn't justify his salary demands and/or fan backlash against the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring it Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 19 hours ago, purple haze said: 1. Police have an exponentially difficult job. That job is made infinitely harder by bigoted cops or cops who are simply bad at their job. Just like some people working at a plant or in an office setting are good at their job and others aren't. Being a police officer doesn't make one infallible from incompetence, and it surely doesn't make them, by virtue of being simply being a police officer, a good person. Bigots go to work like everyone else. What might help good cops, aside from weeding out the bigots or power trippers in their midst, is for county, state and federal governments to stop having police officers be a catch all for every circumstance. Sometimes a mental health expert or a social worker is what's really needed, and money needs to be put into paying that personnel and for the needed services. Mental health is a true national emergency. But, hey, tax cuts and walls and whatnot... 2. Veterans had nothing to do with why Kaepernick or Reid or any other player was kneeling; that was a conflation made by politicians and conservative talk show pundits to distract from the stated reasons for the protest. Why is that? Because those people are fine with the status quo. If not one NFL player ever knelt, but instead mentioned in interviews the issues as they viewed them, or wore, for instance, the same yellow wristbands that some NFL players wore in the '91 NFL playoffs as a symbol of solidarity with the military, people would still complain. There are those who are uncomfortable with protest, in general, and they will attack the means of protest as opposed to the issue being protested. They will attack the bus strike as opposed to people being relegated to riding in the back of one or having to give up, even those seats, due to their color - while still paying the same fare. They will attack the sit-in as opposed to the reality American citizens are not allowed to eat at the same establishment or shop in the same store. They will ask why "those people" have to move into this neighborhood and cause trouble, even though it's some people who live in neighborhood that deface property, kill pets and generally cause the trouble -- all in efforts to run "those people" out of it. As opposed to having a problem with Kaepernick or others, do you ever ask why they feel a need to protest? For some of you non black, brown, yellow or red people, in my wickedest thoughts, I wish you could spend time in the same skin and have to deal with or listen to all the soft hostility, slick "jokes," hypocritical double-talk that belies centuries of history or outright blatant vitriol that you would have to deal with and listen to. Then I think better of it and wouldn't wish it on you. Well said! Although I don’t agree with everything. I mentioned race in my post , maybe I shouldn’t have. Kap was protesting unjustified shootings by cops not necessarily only white cops. But it was pretty clear that the shootings he was addressing were toward black men. Other players joined in and although I can’t remember who, they referenced killing of black men by white cops. Kap certainly had every right to protest peacefully which he did so. Kudos to him for that and for his courage! IMO him timing it with the anthem was initially bold and certainly attention grabbing. But after publicly stating his reasons for kneeling and not his reasons for doing it he continued to kneel. I feel that was disrespectful( I didn’t need a conservative talking head for that) placing this issue over our country and that union of people itself. This country is not perfect to be sure. Never will be because it is made up of humans. The status quo should still not be accepted as long as some humans dehumanize others. I have had this conversation with non white family members. Thankfully the conversations have been respectful and somewhat enlightening ! Politics almost inevitably are brought into this. Which side has not at some point treated the other unfairly or ridiculed one another. Sadly that includes me too. Christ teaches grace in these situations. Something people are not familiar with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Koko78 said: Or d.) his level of play doesn't justify his salary demands and/or fan backlash against the team. What do you know about his salary demands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, mannc said: What do you know about his salary demands? What do you know about the reasons they "blackballed" him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Interesting. I read an article somewhere suggesting that as part of the settlement Kaep agreed never to play in the league. Based on his lawyer’s comments, that’s not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: .....Slippery Geragos=Jim the Hammer Shapiro....Skank 101......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 6:25 AM, Foxx said: https://clutchpoints.com/chiefs-news-larry-johnson-thinks-colin-kaepernick-sold-out-with-nfl-settlement/ Former Chiefs star Larry Johnson thinks Colin Kaepernick sold out with NFL settlement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I know we will never know but it would be very telling how much he got. If he got 70 million he actually had something, if he got 5 million he is just a nuisance they want to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Assata’s Daughters is a Chicago group that focuses on black female empowerment in the tradition of Asaata Shakur. Well....what is the "empowerment tradition" of a person who is infamous only for aiding and abetting the murder of a police officer (and then escaping from prison). Could his money have better spent? Maybe. He was making a statement with that donation in particular. Ha! Well. Actually. That's what she's most "infamous" for, but actually she may well not have had anything to do with the murder of the LEO. She was in the car, and he was shot with his own gun, near the rear of the car. On the other hand, the full story is actually worse. Her actual "empowerment tradition" is as a member of a political group, "Black Liberation Army" " a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the US government through tactics such as robbing banks and killing police officers and drug dealers". Her personal record per Wiki: "Between 1973 and 1977, in New York and New Jersey, Shakur was indicted ten times, resulting in seven different criminal trials. Shakur was charged with two bank robberies, the kidnapping of a Brooklyn heroin dealer, the attempted murder of two Queens police officers stemming from a January 23, 1973, failed ambush, and eight other felonies related to the Turnpike shootout." Nice lassie, that - Not. On the other hand, I'm not gonna judge the group "Assata's Daughters" solely by their name. They appear to have been founded in response to lack of investigation/action regarding two publicized killings of black men by police officers in Chicago, and to direct much of their action to protesting these, which is entirely consistent with Kaepernick's stated message. I tend to find Kaepernick a bit naive, and it wouldn't surprise me if he really didn't look too deeply into exactly who Assata Shakur actually was and what she actually did, much less be intending a special statement with that donation. I think @SDSpoint above is well-taken that it's a gross mis-characterization to call Assata's Daughters "a group that kills police officers". Assata herself, still a stretch but she was clearly an active participant in a group that was explicitly anti-US government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 1:51 PM, KD in CA said: If the NFL had to write him a big check, you can be sure he'll never play again. But I wouldn't be surprised if the deal was 'no money, but we'll get you on a roster before training camp.' Remind me how they would promise that and why he would accept it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Ha! Well. Actually. That's what she's most "infamous" for, but actually she may well not have had anything to do with the murder of the LEO. She was in the car, and he was shot with his own gun, near the rear of the car. On the other hand, the full story is actually worse. Her actual "empowerment tradition" is as a member of a political group, "Black Liberation Army" " a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the US government through tactics such as robbing banks and killing police officers and drug dealers". Her personal record per Wiki: "Between 1973 and 1977, in New York and New Jersey, Shakur was indicted ten times, resulting in seven different criminal trials. Shakur was charged with two bank robberies, the kidnapping of a Brooklyn heroin dealer, the attempted murder of two Queens police officers stemming from a January 23, 1973, failed ambush, and eight other felonies related to the Turnpike shootout." Nice lassie, that - Not. On the other hand, I'm not gonna judge the group "Assata's Daughters" solely by their name. They appear to have been founded in response to lack of investigation/action regarding two publicized killings of black men by police officers in Chicago, and to direct much of their action to protesting these, which is entirely consistent with Kaepernick's stated message. I tend to find Kaepernick a bit naive, and it wouldn't surprise me if he really didn't look too deeply into exactly who Assata Shakur actually was and what she actually did, much less be intending a special statement with that donation. I think @SDSpoint above is well-taken that it's a gross mis-characterization to call Assata's Daughters "a group that kills police officers". Assata herself, still a stretch but she was clearly an active participant in a group that was explicitly anti-US government. My problem with Kaepernick is that he seemed to come to his social calling only after he lost his starting job. I bet most people initially seeing him sitting during the anthem in that preseason game figured he was just moping over his fate at that time. By that time, Trayvon Marin, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Laquan McDonald, Tamir Rice had all died at the hands of the police not days, not weeks, not months...but YEARS before Kaep decided he was going to make his statement. He chose not to say anything while he was still the undisputed (but now struggling) starter for the 49ers in 2014 and '15. There's no reason to believe that, had CHip Kelly kept him as starter and he was still playing in that role, that he would have sat during the anthem then or now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I know we will never know but it would be very telling how much he got. If he got 70 million he actually had something, if he got 5 million he is just a nuisance they want to go away. we will likely find out.....at the latest in 2020 when green bay releases financials from 2019 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 21 hours ago, Koko78 said: What do you know about the reasons they "blackballed" him? It's clear they didn't blackball him for his play on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: It's clear they didn't blackball him for his play on the field. On 2/17/2019 at 10:50 AM, Koko78 said: Or d.) his level of play doesn't justify his salary demands and/or fan backlash against the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, Koko78 said: But we also know his level of play isn't what got him out of the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 4:15 PM, CuddyDark said: It's not the firing. It's not discrimination of his beliefs or race or any of those things. It's preventing him from working that is illegal. It's part of the antitrust laws. In short, the NFL is given a special charter by the government which allows it to have a monopoly. In Kaepernick's case they used this monopoly to prevent him from working. It's illegal. Anyway that how my small brain see it. I could be completely wrong. I wish it was public because it’s fascinating. Did they have hard evidence of collusion where teams and the nfl were deliberately discussing and agreeing to exclude him or were they able to construct evidence out of multiple teams independently saying ‘pass’ based on NFL communications on policy around the practice of protesting. 47 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: But we also know his level of play isn't what got him out of the league. Maybe, but I do belive if his level of play was elite enough there would’ve been some compromise found to get him under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I wish it was public because it’s fascinating. Did they have hard evidence of collusion where teams and the nfl were deliberately discussing and agreeing to exclude him or were they able to construct evidence out of multiple teams independently saying ‘pass’ based on NFL communications on policy around the practice of protesting. Maybe, but I do belive if his level of play was elite enough there would’ve been some compromise found to get him under center. IDK. What he was doing, taking the knee, wasn't against the CBA. I'd think they would have to get a new agreement under the CBA because they didn't have an official policy to stop him. When they tried a half measure, not televising the national anthem, or allowing teams to stay in the locker room during the NA, it made them look complicit or incompetent. If they gave him a big contract, in theory say he got a big contract, POTUS would talk about how the NFL "paid him big money to disrespect our country." They really had a no win situation with Kaepernick. Edited February 18, 2019 by CuddyDark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/18/kaepernicks-settlement-may-not-have-been-as-significant-as-some-believe/ In the immediate aftermath of the announcement that the NFL had settled the collusion grievances filed by Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid, speculation emerged that Kaepernick and Reid cashed in, significantly. And while no one has yet to blab about the specific amount (it seems inevitable that someone eventually will), there are some indications that Kaepernick and Reid didn’t strike it as rich as some believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 On 2/18/2019 at 11:47 AM, papazoid said: we will likely find out.....at the latest in 2020 when green bay releases financials from 2019 ...according to this, maybe not....and I'd bet the NFL would do this to hide the amount........... Kevin Seifert NFL Nation Feb 15, 2019 "There is a small possibility that the Green Bay Packers' annual release of their accounting books could provide a clue. Each team would contribute to any financial settlement that is agreed upon, but it's more likely that the money would be deducted from league revenues rather than be a line-item charge. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 10:00 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said: You're both kind of right (to my understanding). This isn't a question of workplace discrimination. If your employer has a rule about political activism at work, you can indeed be fired for it, that isn't discrimination. But then if your employer (lets say you do specialized work in computer hardware development) calls up other businesses in the same field and says "It would be in our industry's best interests if Bills2ref stays unemployed, he's a loudmouthed troublemaker who will make the whole computer hardware development industry look bad" and at least one other business indicates or behaves in a way that can be seen as agreement, that could be collusion and illegal. This is a very good breakdown. Discovery in such a case could end up being very costly for the NFL and the owners in their other business interests. I question the legitimacy of any rule that requires workers to pledge or stand for the anthem. Certain religions can't comply with that rule and that argument has already been used for the pledge in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Settlement is for under $10 million, far less than other estimates. Quote Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid, the NFL stars who alleged the league’s teams colluded to keep them off the field after they led protests during the national anthem, will receive less than $10 million to settle grievances with the league, according to people briefed on the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Yea the 80 mil people were throwing around was nuts. That’s around what I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 lol believe in something 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, aristocrat said: Yea the 80 mil people were throwing around was nuts. That’s around what I thought Some people were really invested in having these guys win an astronomical sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) AFter taxes and lawyer fees, etc. Kap and Reid will get 2mil each in cash. Which is still more than the average American will make in a lifetime. Edited March 21, 2019 by unbillievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Turns out they could be bought for NFL chump change. shocking.... Edited March 21, 2019 by Mr. WEO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Turns out they could be bought for NFL chump change. shocking.... Or that the super attorney Geragos had no case, and NFL settled for peanuts to make it go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, GG said: Or that the super attorney Geragos had no case, and NFL settled for peanuts to make it go away. A whole movement sold out for the change in the NFL's sofa. The Pegulas must have been rolling on the ground laughing when the reports of "80 million" for Kaep floated in. But as others pointed out at the time--that ridiculous amount made no sense. It would have been far cheaper for the NFL to just tell one of its owner to hire him to make it all go away. Turns out with this cheap settlement, they didn't have to hire him or back up the truck to pay him off. Blowout win for the NFL... Edited March 22, 2019 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, GG said: Or that the super attorney Geragos had no case, and NFL settled for peanuts to make it go away. I don't get it. The NFL looks like it was guilty of collusion by settling. So why settle if there was nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 The fact that they settled for so little just shows they didn't have a case. You don't sell out a "movement" about taking a stand (or knee) by taking a settlement if you have proof, you drag the organization through the mud to protect other players to encourage them to make similar stands in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: The fact that they settled for so little just shows they didn't have a case. You don't sell out a "movement" about taking a stand (or knee) by taking a settlement if you have proof, you drag the organization through the mud to protect other players to encourage them to make similar stands in the future. Then I'll ask you, too: I don't get it. The NFL looks like it was guilty of collusion by settling. So why settle if there was nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bbb said: I don't get it. The NFL looks like it was guilty of collusion by settling. So why settle if there was nothing? They don't look guilty. These players and their movement were using the lawsuit to prop up their visibility, they don't have that anymore. The settlement will be in the news for maybe a week and people will forget about it. A case would have given them relevance for even longer. Edited March 22, 2019 by ndirish1978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Just now, bbb said: I don't get it. The NFL looks like it was guilty of collusion by settling. So why settle if there was nothing? Because even if they didn't collude (the tiny settlement suggests Kaep's lawyer told him there was little chance of proving it in court, obviously) the NFl doesn't want to want anyone snooping around their internal discussions. It could be embarrassing. Look at the response to Petula's freakout about kneeing and his urging the NFL to front some "black spokesperson" to spin this for them somehow. A "figurehead" like "Charlton Heston" that could "be in the media". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Because even if they didn't collude (the tiny settlement suggests Kaep's lawyer told him there was little chance of proving it in court, obviously) the NFl doesn't want to want anyone snooping around their internal discussions. It could be embarrassing. OK. I get this somewhat. I wish they didn't settle and Geragos would have had to come up with something. I was always of the belief that there wasn't collusion. Then when they settled, I said I guess I was wrong. 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Look at the response to Petula's freakout about kneeing and his urging the NFL to front some "black spokesperson" to spin this for them somehow. A "figurehead" like "Charlton Heston" that could "be in the media". I have no idea what of this means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, bbb said: OK. I get this somewhat. I wish they didn't settle and Geragos would have had to come up with something. I was always of the belief that there wasn't collusion. Then when they settled, I said I guess I was wrong. I have no idea what of this means. It was an embarrassing peak inside the NFL owner's star chamber over how they were dealing with this simple issue of players kneeling. When that report came out it made the owners look silly. My guess is that there were lots of similar internal communications that, while not proof of collusion, would have been equally embarrassing if revealed in court. A couple of bucks and it all disappeared under the rug. It's a dream result for the NFL, really. A massive win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It was an embarrassing peak inside the NFL owner's star chamber over how they were dealing with this simple issue of players kneeling. When that report came out it made the owners look silly. My guess is that there were lots of similar internal communications that, while not proof of collusion, would have been equally embarrassing if revealed in court. A couple of bucks and it all disappeared under the rug. It's a dream result for the NFL, really. A massive win. Oh, I had totally forgot about that. Good point! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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