T master Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) On 1/25/2019 at 11:16 AM, Virgil said: I think we’ve all learned in the past few years that it isn’t as simple as just having a solid runningback. It’s about your offensive line, your scheme, your respectable passing game. Teams shouldn’t pay for a guy who is aging or doesn’t fit their scheme. But if you have a guy who you know is good, fits your scheme, younger that 27, I think you absolutely pay him. Which both of these things were what the Bills looked at when they brought Shady here he was under 27 & quite possibly the best back in the league at the time & it was thought he could make our running/passing game better & he did so i think Shady signing was a good move !! I just hope like he says he can bounce back & be that guy going forward this year to allow a new RB to be brought in through the draft to carry the torch because i think Shady could definitely be on the down side of his career but would like to see the team do enough for his career so that if & when he does get the call to go to the hall he would go in as a Buffalo Bill !! Edited January 27, 2019 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 12:53 PM, Seasons1992 said: I'm here, I'm here! Sorry for being late...... One of many poor selections by the Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 10:06 AM, YodaMan79 said: The 2017 RB draft class looks to be one for the ages. It begs the question, why would you wants the Bills to tie up large money in a FA or McCoy? The way the front office has been able to grab talent and value in the later rounds leads me to believe they could find really good RBs from Rd 3 on. I grabbed this from Bill Barnwell of ESPN. I didn't realize how great this class really was. Carson in the 7th? Wow. From that table it seems like you should be drafting your running back with at least your 3rd round pick or even higher. Big drop off after that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 I'd be thrilled with a Mack, Cohen, Carson or Jones type of player from the 4th on. Joe Williams and Perine looked solid at times before they were injured, too. I'd say your % does drastically decrease after the 4th round like any other position. I think the hit rate for an RB is much higher than other positions besides OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Seeing how important the offensive line is to the back i would never draft a rb in top 15 picks unless i thought i was getting Barry Sanders or LT. IMO the only guys you take in top 10 are qbs, and O or D lineman unless you think they are truly special such as Ray Lewis or Randy Moss. I know there are not enough guys to fill the top 10 this way so i would likely have issues as a GM. Edited January 27, 2019 by Buffalo Timmy Wanted to add example 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Buffalo Timmy -- I agree with you 100%. Players like Sanders, LT or even most recently Barkley would be worthy. Emmitt is a prime example of what an OL can do. Not saying he wasn't good, but I think his greatest ability was durability. Draft and develop the best OL possible, then watch all the skill position players flourish! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 It's ironic that each of the four conference championship teams had a high pick at RB to start the season: New England - Michel (1st round, 31st overall / 2018) Los Angeles - Gurley (1st round, 10th overall / 2015) New Orleans - Ingram (1st round, 28th overall / 2011) and Kamara (3rd round, 67th overall / 2017) Kansas City - Hunt* (3rd round, 86th overall / 2017) *Released mid-season That said, Buffalo has a lot of personnel issues on offense and while they need to get younger, I would think OT, interior OL, WR, and TE are more pressing issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Coincidental I think. Gurley being the only really high pick the past 4 years. Lynch in 2014? He looked quite average in 2016. CJ Anderson is looking like a word beater off the street makes me wonder. The coach does a great job of putting those guys in favorable matchup situations. I look at 28-32 as luxury picks for established teams extracting what they feel is the best value, or they trade out. Ingram was suspended to start the year, and he's a part time player. Good point though, this year is an anomaly. I look at the three years prior and it's mostly home grown mid-round selections. Though, I think with the exception of the Patriots a lot of that is due to the cap % those QBs carry. Last year: Patriots vs Jags (Fournette 1st) Eagles vs Vikings (2nd rd Cook hurt most of the year) 2016: Steelers vs Patriots (Bell 2nd) Falcons vs Packers 2015: Broncos vs Patriots Panters vs Cardinals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreboding Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Unless it is a transcendent player, ala; Barkley, you wait. 11 minutes ago, YodaMan79 said: Coincidental I think. Gurley being the only really high pick the past 4 years. Lynch in 2014? He looked quite average in 2016. CJ Anderson is looking like a word beater off the street makes me wonder. The coach does a great job of putting those guys in favorable matchup situations. I look at 28-32 as luxury picks for established teams extracting what they feel is the best value, or they trade out. Ingram was suspended to start the year, and he's a part time player. Good point though, this year is an anomaly. I look at the three years prior and it's mostly home grown mid-round selections. Though, I think with the exception of the Patriots a lot of that is due to the cap % those QBs carry. Last year: Patriots vs Jags (Fournette 1st) Eagles vs Vikings (2nd rd Cook hurt most of the year) 2016: Steelers vs Patriots (Bell 2nd) Falcons vs Packers 2015: Broncos vs Patriots Panters vs Cardinals Well Barkley went number 2 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 12:29 PM, formerlyofCtown said: Shoulda kept Lynch. Didn't he drive while intoxicated, hit a woman with his car, then flee the seen of the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia13 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 12:29 PM, formerlyofCtown said: Shoulda kept Lynch. You mean....................instead of drafting the BPA? Uh oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 12:16 PM, Virgil said: I think we’ve all learned in the past few years that it isn’t as simple as just having a solid runningback. It’s about your offensive line, your scheme, your respectable passing game. Even the list you just posted only shows a 50% success rate in the first 3 rounds. That’s not a good thing. Teams shouldn’t pay for a guy who is aging or doesn’t fit their scheme. But if you have a guy who you know is good, fits your scheme, younger that 27, I think you absolutely pay him. We went through a phase of runningback by committee and some teams still do. It’s what keeps players like Kamara fresh. But they also are going to pay him when it’s time. He’s changed their offense. Someone like Bell, if he were 2 years younger and didn’t have suspension issues? I think he absolutely gets the 17 mil he’s looking for. End result, it’s not cut and dry about the position. well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Zeke, Gurley, Sony Michel completely changed those offenses to be as effective as they were. Heck even Marlon Mack took a load off Luck's back. You treat it like any other position and try to get talent there. Zeke and Gurley are NOT a dime a dozen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Michel? He's good, but a compliment. Looked to me as if Dion Lewis was pretty darn good, too. I agree with Zeke and Gurley. But their respective teams had to stink it up to get access to them. Here's to hoping the Bills aren't picking this high again for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: Didn't he drive while intoxicated, hit a woman with his car, then flee the seen of the crime? Well before we traded him. That happened in 2008 and he was traded in 2010. He was fined 150 and had his license suspended. No he was not intoxicated. Edited January 28, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: Zeke, Gurley, Sony Michel completely changed those offenses to be as effective as they were. Heck even Marlon Mack took a load off Luck's back. You treat it like any other position and try to get talent there. Zeke and Gurley are NOT a dime a dozen. Gurley is a very poor example. The Rams did not miss a beat with CJ Anderson, who they picked up off the street. Gurley might not be a dime a dozen, but he's about the sixth most important guy in that offense. And I very much doubt an injury to Sony Michel would move the needle much for NE, even though he's a good back. Edited January 28, 2019 by mannc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Well before we traded him. That happened in 2008 and he was traded in 2010. He was fined 150 and had his license suspended. No he was not intoxicated. I don't know if anyone really knew if he was intoxicated or not but it would be reasonable to assume that he was. Since he left the scene no one would know. He also got a DWI shortly after being traded to Seattle. The moral of the story is that I found him to be a difficult player to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 12:30 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: And don’t pay them big money. I might be alone but I do think the Giants made the right choice with Barkley because I think he has HOF talent. If they can get a good qb prospect this year, they will be loaded on offense. You aren’t alone C- every so often a RB warrants that high of a pick- Barkley was the right choice and I am not a fan lf taking RB’s high in todays NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) Here is a list of every Buffalo Bills RB draft pick who was taken *after* the second round going back to 1978. It is a truly sorry list. There is not one player among the 25 players selected who turned out to be a difference maker by any definition of the term. Sammy Morris was probably the best of the bunch and he ran for only 3000 yards in 12 seasons. Longtime backup, basically. Not one of the RBs listed below ever ran for 750 yards in a season. Anyway, while many teams have clearly found good RBs after round one, The Bills have a 40-year history of never finding one. 2016: Jonathan Williams 2015: Karlos Williams 2011: Johnny White 2008: Xavier Omon 2007: Dwayne Wright 2005: Lionel Gates 2002: Jarrett Ferguson 2000: Sammy Morris 1999: Shawn Bryson 1998: Jonathan Linton 1996: Leon Neal 1995: Darick Holmes 1991: Amir Rasul 1990: Eddie Fuller 1989: Sean Doctor 1988: Bo Wright 1987: Jamie Mueller 1987: Kerry Porter 1986: Carl Byrum 1983: George Parker 1982: Van Williams 1981: Rob Riddick 1979: Mike Harris 1978: Dennis Johnson 1978: Steve Powell Edited January 28, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Here is a list of every Buffalo Bills RB that wasn't drafted in the first two rounds going back to 1980. It is a truly sorry list. There is not one player among the 22 players selected who turned out to be a difference maker by any definition of the term. Sammy Morris was probably the best of the bunch and he ran for only 3000 yards in 12 seasons. Longtime backup, basically. Not one of the RBs listed below ever ran for 750 yards in a season. Anyway, while many teams have clearly found good RBs after round one, The Bills have a 40-year history of never finding one. 2016: Jonathan Williams 2015: Karlos Williams 2011: Johnny White 2008: Xavier Omon 2007: Dwayne Wright 2005: Lionel Gates 2002: Jarrett Ferguson 2000: Sammy Morris 1999: Shawn Bryson 1998: Jonathan Linton 1996: Leon Neal 1995: Darick Holmes 1991: Amir Rasul 1990: Eddie Fuller 1989: Sean Doctor 1988: Bo Wright 1987: Jamie Mueller 1987: Kerry Porter 1986: Carl Byrum 1983: George Parker 1982: Van Williams 1981: Rob Riddick Karlos was awesome (Whaley sucks) before he got stoned and fat. I also remember some good Holmes’ moments. but your point stands. I do think those were some bad olines. I think with a good oline and passing threat, rbs can be fairly interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Karlos was awesome (Whaley sucks) before he got stoned and fat. I also remember some good Holmes’ moments. but your point stands. I do think those were some bad olines. I think with a good oline and passing threat, rbs can be fairly interchangeable. A couple of these players had some decent moments (Shawn Bryson), but none were any good relative to actually good NFL RBs. 40 years with basically nothing beyond backup production from the RB position among players taken after rd 2 is truly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Here is a list of every Buffalo Bills RB draft pick who was taken *after* the second round going back to 1980. It is a truly sorry list. There is not one player among the 22 players selected who turned out to be a difference maker by any definition of the term. Sammy Morris was probably the best of the bunch and he ran for only 3000 yards in 12 seasons. Longtime backup, basically. Not one of the RBs listed below ever ran for 750 yards in a season. Anyway, while many teams have clearly found good RBs after round one, The Bills have a 40-year history of never finding one. 2016: Jonathan Williams 2015: Karlos Williams 2011: Johnny White 2008: Xavier Omon 2007: Dwayne Wright 2005: Lionel Gates 2002: Jarrett Ferguson 2000: Sammy Morris 1999: Shawn Bryson 1998: Jonathan Linton 1996: Leon Neal 1995: Darick Holmes 1991: Amir Rasul 1990: Eddie Fuller 1989: Sean Doctor 1988: Bo Wright 1987: Jamie Mueller 1987: Kerry Porter 1986: Carl Byrum 1983: George Parker 1982: Van Williams 1981: Rob Riddick It’s a sad list, but what’s more relevant, ancient Bills’ draft history, or recent league-wide experience, where good-great RBs are found in all rounds of the draft and even in UDFA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: A couple of these players had some decent moments (Shawn Bryson), but none were any good relative to actually good NFL RBs. 40 years with basically nothing beyond backup production from the RB position among players taken after rd 2 is truly pathetic. I mean Williams would have. But you’re right. I just think part of the issue is we have had bad olines and no threat at qb. The Pats and Saints seem to find good rbs later in the draft. Is that because they are better at drafting or because of the qb/ oline? also, shouldn’t Freddie be part of this? Edited January 28, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Just now, mannc said: It’s a sad list, but what’s more relevant, ancient Bills’ draft history, or recent league-wide experience, where good-great RBs are found in all rounds of the draft and even in UDFA? When it comes to the Bills, Bills history is sadly something that should kept at the front of one's mind--certainly as much as league-wide trends. Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean Williams would have. But you’re right. I just think part of the issue is we have had bad olines and no threat at qb. The Pats and Saints seem to find good rbs later in the draft. Is that because they are better at drafting or because of the qb/ oline? also, shouldn’t Freddie be part of this? Freddie didn't even start with the Bills -- he played 3 seasons of pro ball for the Sioux City Bandits and the Rhein Fire before coming to Buffalo. He was picked up from NFL Europe. He was never on anyone in the organization's radar screen on draft day. The teams that tried him out his draft year were the Packers, Bears, and Broncos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean Williams would have. But you’re right. I just think part of the issue is we have had bad olines and no threat at qb. The Pats and Saints seem to find good rbs later in the draft. Is that because they are better at drafting or because of the qb/ oline? also, shouldn’t Freddie be part of this? Belichick has actually drafted RBs twice in the first round for the Pats: Michel and Lawrence Maroney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 43 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Here is a list of every Buffalo Bills RB draft pick who was taken *after* the second round going back to 1978. It is a truly sorry list. There is not one player among the 25 players selected who turned out to be a difference maker by any definition of the term. Sammy Morris was probably the best of the bunch and he ran for only 3000 yards in 12 seasons. Longtime backup, basically. Not one of the RBs listed below ever ran for 750 yards in a season. Anyway, while many teams have clearly found good RBs after round one, The Bills have a 40-year history of never finding one. 2016: Jonathan Williams 2015: Karlos Williams 2011: Johnny White 2008: Xavier Omon 2007: Dwayne Wright 2005: Lionel Gates 2002: Jarrett Ferguson 2000: Sammy Morris 1999: Shawn Bryson 1998: Jonathan Linton 1996: Leon Neal 1995: Darick Holmes 1991: Amir Rasul 1990: Eddie Fuller 1989: Sean Doctor 1988: Bo Wright 1987: Jamie Mueller 1987: Kerry Porter 1986: Carl Byrum 1983: George Parker 1982: Van Williams 1981: Rob Riddick 1979: Mike Harris 1978: Dennis Johnson 1978: Steve Powell The Bills have ALWAYS had a first or second round pick at the top of their RB depth chart in the SB era. Many times even 2 of them. So their backfields weren't easy to crack...........but at the same time not nearly enough late round flyers........which often lead to situations where they were a bit RB desperate and resulted in them making the bad decision to invest yet another first rounder into the RB position.........which is kind of the case now. Hopefully this FO is smarter than that but we shall see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The Bills have ALWAYS had a first or second round pick at the top of their RB depth chart in the SB era. Many times even 2 of them. So their backfields weren't easy to crack...........but at the same time not nearly enough late round flyers........which often lead to situations where they were a bit RB desperate and resulted in them making the bad decision to invest yet another first rounder into the RB position.........which is kind of the case now. Hopefully this FO is smarter than that but we shall see. I get that, but my point is that the guys who backed them up weren't actually any good. It's not like they were the U circa 2000, with McGahee waiting in the wings behind Frank Gore. They also did spend a pretty fair amount of late round picks on RBs over the years. Again, though, none turned out to be good. The best were Riddick, Bryson (a third rounder), and Morris. Edited January 28, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 45 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I get that, but my point is that the guys who backed them up weren't actually any good. It's not like they were the U circa 2000, with McGahee waiting in the wings behind Frank Gore. They also did spend a pretty fair amount of late round picks on RBs over the years. Again, though, none turned out to be good. The best were Riddick, Bryson (a third rounder), and Morris. Hmmm...it's almost as if the Bills' front office wasn't very good at its job over that time frame...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 43 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I get that, but my point is that the guys who backed them up weren't actually any good. It's not like they were the U circa 2000, with McGahee waiting in the wings behind Frank Gore. They also did spend a pretty fair amount of late round picks on RBs over the years. Again, though, none turned out to be good. The best were Riddick, Bryson (a third rounder), and Morris. I don't think they've used many late picks on RB's at all. Too few since 2000 actually........but part of that was related to stretches where the backfield was just overloaded. Yeah they may have had 6 misses out of 8 tries in those 19 drafts.........but in 2010 they also originally signed UDFA Joique Bell(who became a nice player for a few seasons when given a chance and once had a near 1200 yard combined yardage season for Detroit).......and as previously mentioned found Fred Jackson and Mike Gillislee on the street. Fred of course was a stud and MG lead the NFL in several categories in his two seasons with the Bills. Bottom line............RB is still a pretty easy place to find production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I don't think they've used many late picks on RB's at all. Too few since 2000 actually........but part of that was related to stretches where the backfield was just overloaded. Yeah they may have had 6 misses out of 8 tries in those 19 drafts.........but in 2010 they also originally signed UDFA Joique Bell(who became a nice player for a few seasons when given a chance and once had a near 1200 yard combined yardage season for Detroit).......and as previously mentioned found Fred Jackson and Mike Gillislee on the street. Fred of course was a stud and MG lead the NFL in several categories in his two seasons with the Bills. Bottom line............RB is still a pretty easy place to find production. Meh re Gillislee. I am thinking of a back that can actually produce beyond 500 yards rushing / 800 rushing-receiving. Fred is the only *good* RB they've had that they didn't draft in rounds 1 or 2. 5 years from now, we're going to remember Gilislee (out of the league now after completely flaming out in NE and serving as a very short term steroid-related replacement for Ingram in NO) as a guy who had a cup of coffee in the NFL and not much else. When you're highest AV is 4 ( https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GillMi00.htm ), you ain't headed to the history books. Yeah, you can point to to his ypa, but he was a crappy receiver, and after he fumbled once in NE early in the season, he wasn't good enough at the rest of the things RBs are supposed to do to merit playing time. His legend on TBD is inflated to say the least. He also led in one category (in one season on a limited snap count), not several. Anyway, I'm focused on guys who turned out to be good players, not rushing-once-for-500-yards guys. Guys who produce at what I regard as a legit level get at least 1250 yards from scrimmage via rushing and receiving. Fred (who wasn't drafted) is the only one who did it (3 times), and moreover was the only one came close except for Rob Riddick in 1986, who combined for just over 1000. I don't give a crap about the Joique Bells of the world. He wasn't drafted by the Bills and never played a friggin' down for them either. He was a classic case of a Lions RB -- not very good but a guy who accumulated some (modest) stats because he was the only person to hand the ball off to. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Edited January 28, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Sad list. I remember seeing flashes in Holmes, Bryson and Linton (am I mis-remembering), thinking they could have been good. Being a kid/young adult at the time I think I was most likely romanticizing these guys, blind to the fact they weren't that good. I do remember Bryson having a couple of decent games for the Lions of all teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Been saying it for years now... teams do not value the RB position like they use to. You can find really good running backs in just about any round. Was it cool having Shady? Absolutely, but it is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Meh re Gillislee. I am thinking of a back that can actually produce beyond 500 yards rushing / 800 rushing-receiving. Fred is the only *good* RB they've had that they didn't draft in rounds 1 or 2. 5 years from now, we're going to remember Gilislee (out of the league now after completely flaming out in NE and serving as a very short term steroid-related replacement for Ingram in NO) as a guy who had a cup of coffee in the NFL and not much else. When you're highest AV is 4 ( https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GillMi00.htm ), you ain't headed to the history books. Yeah, you can point to to his ypa, but he was a crappy receiver, and after he fumbled once in NE early in the season, he wasn't good enough at the rest of the things RBs are supposed to do to merit playing time. His legend on TBD is inflated to say the least. He also led in one category (in one season on a limited snap count), not several. Anyway, I'm focused on guys who turned out to be good players, not rushing-once-for-500-yards guys. Guys who produce at what I regard as a legit level get at least 1250 yards from scrimmage via rushing and receiving. Fred (who wasn't drafted) is the only one who did it (3 times), and moreover was the only one came close except for Rob Riddick in 1986, who combined for just over 1000. I don't give a crap about the Joique Bells of the world. He wasn't drafted by the Bills and never played a friggin' down for them either. He was a classic case of a Lions RB -- not very good but a guy who accumulated some (modest) stats because he was the only person to hand the ball off to. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. dave.........the Bills have had AT LEAST one first or second round running back at the top of their depth chart every year for the last 50 years. They are the quintessential example of an over-invested-in-RB's franchise. So where was all of this opportunity for a non-top pick to put up 1,250 yard seasons? I just don't know where you are going with with this point. Is it really odd that a team that's had like starting 5 RB's still in their prime who at one point or another who would go on to accumulate over 10K rushing yards each(OJ, Thurman, Willis, Lynch, McCoy) would not have found many diamonds in the rough? Could the Bills do a better job evaluating RB's...........no doubt..........to me, not finding more good ones later just epitomizes the fact that they haven't been a traditionally good team at scouting talent. Finding a good RB in round one makes you look good but is the epitome of picking low hanging fruit. It's easy and requires very little in depth evaluation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: The Bills have ALWAYS had a first or second round pick at the top of their RB depth chart in the SB era. Many times even 2 of them. So their backfields weren't easy to crack...........but at the same time not nearly enough late round flyers........which often lead to situations where they were a bit RB desperate and resulted in them making the bad decision to invest yet another first rounder into the RB position.........which is kind of the case now. Hopefully this FO is smarter than that but we shall see. Paying Ivory and not taking a flyer on a younger late round pick was a mistake. Now RB is a need and they probably shouldn’t wait until day 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, CommonCents said: Paying Ivory and not taking a flyer on a younger late round pick was a mistake. Now RB is a need and they probably shouldn’t wait until day 3. Yeah, two years in a row with zero picks used on RB is a real head-scratcher, given the age of the team’s RB stable, and especially given McDermott’s affinity for ground-and-pound Jauron-ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: dave.........the Bills have had AT LEAST one first or second round running back at the top of their depth chart every year for the last 50 years. They are the quintessential example of an over-invested-in-RB's franchise. So where was all of this opportunity for a non-top pick to put up 1,250 yard seasons? I just don't know where you are going with with this point. Is it really odd that a team that's had like starting 5 RB's still in their prime who at one point or another who would go on to accumulate over 10K rushing yards each(OJ, Thurman, Willis, Lynch, McCoy) would not have found many diamonds in the rough? Could the Bills do a better job evaluating RB's...........no doubt..........to me, not finding more good ones later just epitomizes the fact that they haven't been a traditionally good team at scouting talent. Finding a good RB in round one makes you look good but is the epitome of picking low hanging fruit. It's easy and requires very little in depth evaluation. You are not listening to me. The guys they drafted in later rounds weren't any good. To a man. Full stop. None. Nada. They didn't suffer because they were blocked by superior talent. They just sucked, mostly. That's my point. Everyone talks about how good talent at the RB position can be found in the later rounds. That hasn't been the case with the Bills, and we have 4 decades of evidence to prove it. The RB talent situation in Buffalo has historically been the opposite of the dime-a-dozen scenario that gets thrown about so frequently. Can that change? I hope so. But I'm not betting money on it given past history. Christ, remember when Ralph butted in during the draft and pushed for the drafting of Dwayne Wright in the fourth round the same year they drafted Lynch? He apparently saw some Fresno State clips and was smitten. Now that's some classic Buffalo Bills history! Edited January 28, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: You are not listening to me. The guys they drafted in later rounds weren't any good. To a man. Full stop. None. Nada. They didn't suffer because they were blocked by superior talent. They just sucked, mostly. That's my point. Everyone talks about how good talent at the RB position can be found in the later rounds. That hasn't been the case with the Bills, and we have 4 decades of evidence to prove it. The RB talent situation in Buffalo has historically been the opposite of the dime-a-dozen scenario that gets thrown about so frequently. Yeah you aren't going to find many future 10K rushing yard RB's late in the draft. It's probably the easiest position to evaluate so the really outstanding individuals rarely slip thru the cracks. And the "you can always find good talent at the RB position in later rounds" is wrong if that is the context you are taking it in. The more accurate way to put it is that you can field championship level ground-game production with RB's taken in later rounds. It's draft season so we will inevitably hear about how some position that we were weak at(like center) is a justifiable first round position and given McCoy's sub-peak-Joique Bell production the past two years() I suspect we will hear a lot of cries to invest another first or second round pick in a RB. Bottom line..........it doesn't pay. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah you aren't going to find many future 10K rushing yard RB's late in the draft. It's probably the easiest position to evaluate so the really outstanding individuals rarely slip thru the cracks. And the "you can always find good talent at the RB position in later rounds" is wrong if that is the context you are taking it in. The more accurate way to put it is that you can field championship level ground-game production with RB's taken in later rounds. It's draft season so we will inevitably hear about how some position that we were weak at(like center) is a justifiable first round position and given McCoy's sub-peak-Joique Bell production the past two years() I suspect we will hear a lot of cries to invest another first or second round pick in a RB. Bottom line..........it doesn't pay. No doubt. I'm not saying we should be investing firsts in RBs; just that the Bills have been historically terrible in later-round RB evaluation. Btw, did you see my addition above about Dwayne Wright and Ralph? Remember that? Incidentally, Shady's 2017 season was measurably better than anything Bell ever put up ... Edited January 28, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 12:54 PM, Doc said: You can get a good RB (or player) anywhere in the draft. The hard part is finding him. The one thing the Bills haven’t had a problem with? Finding good running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: No doubt. I'm not saying we should be investing firsts in RBs; just that the Bills have been historically terrible in later-round RB evaluation. Btw, did you see my addition above about Dwayne Wright and Ralph? Remember that? Incidentally, Shady's 2017 season was measurably better than anything Bell ever put up ... ....not convinced that the current gang should be a presumptive part of "bad history"..... ....agree that those later rounds/UDFA's are governed by the "law of diminishing returns" and RB selection was an issue for the former "F Troops"........yet I'd say McBeane and his "Gang of 17" were pretty impressive....Proehl is the only one gone......and UDFA's Foster and Wallace so noted.....they can find RB value later as they have done with other positions....Round 4, Pick 21 (No, 121 overall): Taron Johnson, CB, Weber State Round 5, Pick 17 (No. 154 overall) [via Baltimore]: Siran Neal, CB, Jacksonville StateRound 5, Pick 29 (No. 166 overall): Wyatt Teller, G, Virginia TechRound 6, Pick 13 (No. 187 overall): Ray-Ray McCloud, WR, ClemsonRound 7, Pick 37 (No. 255 overall): Austin Proehl, WR, North Carolina 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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