Cheats latest illegal play

[CoachT]

3 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

I'm not talking about trick plays at all. I am talking about plays like today where they rush people on and off, make weird substitutions etc. Or what they did with their formations in the playoffs a few years back. There is a lot of pre snap stuff. Just douchey stuff like that. Just play the damn game.

The formation you're talking about was really completely legal. Teams run eligible tackles in HS. What the pats did was use 4 linemen. And turn an eligible player to an ineligible one. It was really the refs that messed up the ravens game by not announcing that a player had become ineligible.

 

Again smart.  Damn yall making me defend the pats lol. But these are just bad example

5 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

No but the rub pick play they always do on every critical pass play for 10 years finally got called on them today.   

Should be a staple of every team, severely underutilized.  Allowed to pick inside 1 yard of the LOS, almost impossible to stop.

 

Pats just push that to 2,3,4 or 5 yards downfield and never get called for it.   Ti today.

I agree. I'm surprised it hasn't caught on like some of the other fads. 

[Ol Dirty B]

5 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Cheats had 4th and 1 at midfield against the Squeelers.  With :25 on the play clock, Brady pats the center on the ass, and they run off the field and run the punt team on.  Squeelers confused, they keep the D out there, not realizing that the Cheats MUST give the Squeelers an equal chance to substitute.  All the announcers could do was ballwash Belicheat, instead of pointing out how illegal that play was.  Just so sick and tired of the praise heaped on Belicheat when he finds new and innovative ways to cheat.  If you're that good, why don't you just beat teams straight up, you cheating ass *****!?

 

Did you just start watching football?

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Of course I hate them, As any true Bills fan should. Misdirection and offensive creativity on the field during play  has nothing to do with what I was talking about.  If Bellichick was the genius coach that he is lauded to be then why the need for all this stuff?

 

That’s just part of being smarter than the opponent. Don’t get mad at that, BEAT that! 

[mrags]

5 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

How was that illegal though? 

 

If Pitrsburgh wanted to substitute I’m pretty sure the refs would have granted it to them but they didn’t and they didn’t call a timeout either.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong of course as I’m not 100 percent sure. But I dont think there was anything illegal about it

Technically if they don’t make an attempt to substitute then your right. But with like 10 secs left on the play clock, it was obvious the Cheatriots were either attempting to catch them off or make them use a late time out. 

[Shortchaz]

3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Belicheat does always just flirt with pushing the boundaries of cheating, and straight-up will cheat if he thinks he can get away with it.

 

Is what it is, I still remember him fouling up our no-huddle as the defensive coordinator of the Giants in our first SB, where his players would feign injury to do substitutions and then trot out fine the next play.  The following year (I think) they added a rule that an "injured" player could not come back in for a couple plays. Belichick's antics pretty much keep the rules committee busy every offseason plugging the holes he finds around the rules.

 

I would praise him for being crafty, if he were our coach, but he sucks because he isn't.

It’s interesting because he can say “well there isn’t a rule against it” as a defense, and that is true. The reason their aren’t rules for every specific situation is because most people function under the assumption that  compeitors are going to act in a sportsman like manor. The bb’s of the world force the rules to be written because they MUST win, first and foremost and at any cost. This is not really what sports are meant to be, but at the professional level it could be argued that it is. It’s interesting to say the least.

[Livinginthepast]

1 minute ago, CoachT said:

The formation you're talking about was really completely legal. Teams run eligible tackles in HS. What the pats did was use 4 linemen. And turn an eligible player to an ineligible one. It was really the refs that messed up the ravens game by not announcing that a player had become ineligible.

 

Again smart.  Damn yall making me defend the pats lol. But these are just bad example

No they are a perfect example of a douche play. I didn't say that they were cheating or doing anything illegal. They are a great team, why do they need to resort to this smarmy crap?

[mrags]

10 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

No they are a perfect example of a douche play. I didn't say that they were cheating or doing anything illegal. They are a great team, why do they need to resort to this smarmy crap?

I remember it last year or a year ago where they would constantly announce someone was eligible on almost every single play. Then quickly sub that player in for another player that wasn’t, and vice Versa. It was a really douche move and while it is technically legal in how it’s done, it’s extremely shady, definately unsportsmanlike thaw way it was done, and borderline flat out cheating. 

[CoachT]

49 minutes ago, mrags said:

I remember it last year or a year ago where they would constantly announce someone was eligible on almost every single play. Then quickly sub that player in for another player that wasn’t, and vice Versa. It was a really douche move and while it is technically legal in how it’s done, it’s extremely shady, definately unsportsmanlike thaw way it was done, and borderline flat out cheating. 

But every team's does this. Dawkins caught a TD for us this year 

[Ol Dirty B]

Deception is huge in football. I don't understand why so many on here don't understand it.

 

All this talk about sportsmanship and the like, it's for losers. I don't like the Patriots, at all. But the creativity, the nuance, deceptions and misdirection Belichick comes up with is amazing. Hating on it is a simple mindset.

[MJS]

5 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Of course I hate them, As any true Bills fan should. Misdirection and offensive creativity on the field during play  has nothing to do with what I was talking about.  If Bellichick was the genius coach that he is lauded to be then why the need for all this stuff?

 

This seems like pretty much the same thing as trying to get the defense to jump Offside on 4th down without actually intending to run a play.

 

Seems like you are just being ridiculous.

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

OK, so maybe it wasn't illegal, per se.  It's certainly cheating, and against the spirit of the rules.  I agree with DC Tom, the officials should have allowed the Squeelers to substitute, but they're the stupidest people on the field, so good luck with that.  I can see a situation where the Squeelers try to substitute, and in the confusion, the Cheats run a fake, get the 1st down, and the refs just say "Tough titty".  

 

So now a legal play should be illegal because of some what if scenario. 

 

The Refs would have allowed Steelers to Substitute by rule if they tried. They didnt try. 

4 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

It’s interesting because he can say “well there isn’t a rule against it” as a defense, and that is true. The reason their aren’t rules for every specific situation is because most people function under the assumption that  compeitors are going to act in a sportsman like manor. The bb’s of the world force the rules to be written because they MUST win, first and foremost and at any cost. This is not really what sports are meant to be, but at the professional level it could be argued that it is. It’s interesting to say the least.

 

So is calling a TO right before the snap of a FG acting in a sportsman like manor?

 

or is it because this is just the Patriots 

[nucci]

11 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

How wasn't it too many man on the field? Or doesn't that count so there was no huddle?

because there were 11 players on the field when the ball was snapped. It was not any different than an offense coming off the field on 4th down 

[mrags]

5 hours ago, CoachT said:

But every team's does this. Dawkins caught a TD for us this year 

Every team calls players eligible. But not almost every single play. And when they do they don’t switch them in and out with other eligible pass catchers. It was a sketchy move at best. It’s what I expect out of the cheaters 

Edited December 17, 2018 by mrags

[Livinginthepast]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

 

This seems like pretty much the same thing as trying to get the defense to jump Offside on 4th down without actually intending to run a play.

 

Seems like you are just being ridiculous.

Except it isn't, because the Pats do this far more than any other team and far more frequently than the occasional 4th down play like today. I don't think that its "ridiculous", especially as a Bills fan to be fed up with almost 20 years of this ticky tacky kind of BS play combined with the actual full on cheating they have done. 

[ColdFront_USAF]

I hate the patriots more than almost anything else on this planet, but I had to respect that play. It wasn't that it was all that genius of an idea or anything, it was just a sign of really great coaching. Say what you want about Beli, but he gets his boys ready week in and week out. How many teams can get 11 guys off the field, get 11 new ones on, snap the ball and execute the play that quickly. I've seen the Bills struggle to put their nickel package out there without putting 12 men out there or having a db facing the wrong way like a madden glitch. I've seen KB routinely have 0 clue where he is supposed to be while being the supposed #1 reciever on the offense and relying on a second year player to hold his hand pre snap. 

 

I don't think this was against the rules, and honestly i don't even think it was all that effective. Just showed that every guy on that team down to the special teamers can do the routine things in their sleep, and that takes great coaching. 

 

But still, ***** the Pats. 

[row_33]

The best play was downing a punt that crossed the goal line but two Pats jumped into the EZ from the one and managed to knock it back to be placed at the one

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

How was that cheating?  The Steelers could have substituted but chose not to.  The plan to waste game clock worked well, it was smart of BB even if you hate him it was solid coaching.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

Except it isn't, because the Pats do this far more than any other team and far more frequently than the occasional 4th down play like today. I don't think that its "ridiculous", especially as a Bills fan to be fed up with almost 20 years of this ticky tacky kind of BS play combined with the actual full on cheating they have done. 

 

 

When you are drowning, it's best not to reach for another bowling ball....

[TigerJ]

Not illegal.  Belichick plays to the edge and looks for loopholes in the rules to give his team an advantage.  I don't like him.  Among the reasons I don't like him is the fact that his propensity for finding loopholes puts the league in a position of coming up with more and more rules to close them.  

[Livinginthepast]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

When you are drowning, it's best not to reach for another bowling ball....

Thanks Confucius! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Tuco said:

 

Actually it was very productive. The clock was running down so the Pats* lined up on 4th and short as though they were going to go for it. This convinced Pitt not to use their time out, which they would have if they were sure the Pats were going to punt. But with the Pats* O on the field Pitt didn't want to leave them any more time than they had to if they converted. So the clock continued to run.

 

Then after the Pats* ran a bunch of seconds off the clock they swapped the entire offense for the punt team. By then it was too late for Pitt to gain anything by using their time out. Despite the OP's accusation of cheating, Pitt didn't even attempt to substitute, so there was no issue there. It was a smart play by Belicheat*. On the douchy side, sure. But smart, productive, and effective.

 

But Pitt could have asked for time to substitute and been given an official time out, correct?

 

Effective is as effective does.  The Pats lost.  AHhhhhhhh.

[dubs]

I actually thought that the Steelers played that right and the Pats kind of out thought themselves. Pats were down 7 with a yard to go. They should have just went for it there. I think they were trying to get the Steelers to use a timeout and then come back to go for it on fourth down. Instead the Steelers just let them punt it and went into the half up 7. 

[That_Guy]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But Pitt could have asked for time to substitute and been given an official time out, correct?

 

Effective is as effective does.  The Pats lost.  AHhhhhhhh.

And that's really the only thing that matters.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, That_Guy said:

And that's really the only thing that matters.

 

they are coasting until the playoffs

 

pick off the cinchy wins and not try to hard in the hard games

 

 

[Tuco]

 

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But Pitt could have asked for time to substitute and been given an official time out, correct?

 

Effective is as effective does.  The Pats lost.  AHhhhhhhh.

 

Not a time out, the ref just holds things up for a reasonable amount of time. It's not like the Pats rushed the punt snap to catch them off guard. The Steelers made no attempt to substitute. One of the DBs went deep to field the punt and the Steelers seemed content with that. There really seems to be a lot more being made of this than there should be, starting with the OP calling it an illegal play.

 

ARTICLE 10. DEFENSIVE MATCHUPS FOLLOWING SUBSTITUTIONS. If a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. While in the process of a substitution (or simulated substitution), the offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e., too many men on the field). If the offense substitutes, the following procedure will apply:

(a) The Umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.

(b) If the offense snaps the ball before the defense has had an opportunity to complete its substitutions, and a defensive foul for too many players on the field results, no penalties will be enforced, except for personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct, and the down will be replayed. At this time, the Referee will notify the head coach that any further use of this tactic will result in a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. The game clock will be reset to the time remaining when the snap occurred, and the clock will start on the snap. Note: The quick-snap rule does not apply after the two-minute warning of either half, or if there is not a substitution by the offense.

(c) On a fourth-down punting situation, the Referee and the Umpire will not allow a quick snap that prevents the defense from having a reasonable time to complete its substitutions. This applies throughout the entire game.

(d) If the play clock expires before the defense has completed its substitution, it is delay of game by the offense.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Tuco

[Jrb1979]

16 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

A lot of Bills fans have fallen into a pit of thinking lousy football is the only thing out there, not their fault after 20 years of this 

 

Bills/Lions wasn’t even a warmup game for a JV contest

 

 

A lot of that has to do with Bills fans mostly watching Bills games and not many other games each week. Judging by the sunday night game thread a lot of Bills fans are missing out on good football being played each week. 

[cle23]

13 hours ago, mrags said:

Technically if they don’t make an attempt to substitute then your right. But with like 10 secs left on the play clock, it was obvious the Cheatriots were either attempting to catch them off or make them use a late time out. 

 

The refs can delay for the Steelers to substitute even past the play clock, causing New England to get delay of game or waste a TO. The Steelers didn't try to substitute,  so it didn't matter.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

they are coasting until the playoffs

 

pick off the cinchy wins and not try to hard in the hard games

 

That's bull.

[fansince88]

21 hours ago, John in Jax said:

You know what though, I hate the Steelers more than I hate the Pats, so I hope the Pats win.

Are you a Bills fan?

[Chuck Schick]

8 hours ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

I hate the patriots more than almost anything else on this planet, but I had to respect that play. It wasn't that it was all that genius of an idea or anything, it was just a sign of really great coaching. Say what you want about Beli, but he gets his boys ready week in and week out. How many teams can get 11 guys off the field, get 11 new ones on, snap the ball and execute the play that quickly. I've seen the Bills struggle to put their nickel package out there without putting 12 men out there or having a db facing the wrong way like a madden glitch. I've seen KB routinely have 0 clue where he is supposed to be while being the supposed #1 reciever on the offense and relying on a second year player to hold his hand pre snap. 

 

I don't think this was against the rules, and honestly i don't even think it was all that effective. Just showed that every guy on that team down to the special teamers can do the routine things in their sleep, and that takes great coaching. 

 

But still, ***** the Pats. 

 

I don't really get the whole "great coaching" thing either.  

The Pats were near mid field, 4th and short.   Keep the offense on the field and just don't snap the ball....like a million other teams do constantly... and take the delay of game penalty.  

Punt the ball through the end zone and leave Pitt with like 25 seconds in the half.  

Running the punt team out there only saved them the meaningless 5 yard penalty.     

[John in Jax]

1 hour ago, fansince88 said:

Are you a Bills fan?

Ha ha. Yes.....been one for 50+ years. Did you see my second post in this thread? Not the one you quoted above.

[Freddie's Dead]

6 hours ago, Tuco said:

 

 

 

(d) If the play clock expires before the defense has completed its substitution, it is delay of game by the offense.

 

Didn't know about (d).  Tomlin could have slow rolled his subs and given the Cheats a DOG.  Now that would have been hilarious.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Freddie's Dead

[Tuco]

20 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Didn't know about (d).  Tomlin could have slow rolled his subs and given the Cheats a DOG.  Now that would have been hilarious.

It wouldn't have bothered the Cheats in the least. The whole idea for the stunt was to kill as much clock as they could before giving the ball back to Pitt.

[cle23]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Didn't know about (d).  Tomlin could have slow rolled his subs and given the Cheats a DOG.  Now that would have been hilarious.

 

No. The refs give them a REASONABLE amount of time to sub. If the defense takes too long, they'll let them snap the ball without the defense being fully subbed.