You’re GM of Giants...Do you take Barkley still in a redraft or Allen/Other QB?

[Kirby Jackson]

Great topic Alpha!!!

 

I voted Barkley. The QBs all have a chance to be good to great. Barkley to me though is an elite talent. He was one of the best backs that I ever saw in his sophomore year. 

[prissythecat]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Just for fun:

 

No doubt Barkley is having an incredible rookie season and proving worthy of such a high pick.  But given the importance of the QB position and seeing Eli is pretty much done and knowing what we know now what would you do in a redraft?  Would you still take Barkley #2 or take Allen (or other one of the QBs) instead?

 

Do you go safe and take the beast at RB?  Or gamble on the sky high upside Allen has been showing?  Or do you go QB but take one of the other guys instead?  Or is there another rookie you take instead?  Remember this is for the Giants, not just who you like more.

 

To answer my own question:

 

It would be a tough choice for me, but I am a believer in Allen and I really think he is going to get there and be a special talent.  I wouldn’t fault anyone who would choose Barkley either, Inmean he is just a beast out there.  But just because it’s harder to find that special QB, I think I would gamble by going with Allens upside even though Barkley is already amongst the best at his position in the NFL.  I love Barkley, so it’s a close call, just really have a lot of confidence in Allens future.  

 

The Giants obviously thought they could make a serious run with Manning and Barkley.  So much for that idea.

 

The jury is still out on Darnold , Allen, and Rosen.   I think there is a good chance that some or all will not be relevant in the NFL in a few seasons.    So can't fault the Giants for passing on them.

[BillsFan130]

Allen or Darnold. 

 

 And that’s nothing against Barkley as he’s a great player. 

 

It’s just A RB at 2 is way too high IMO, especially when you have a chance to draft a franchise QB

[Just Joshin']

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I thought they made the right call since all of the QB's had serious questions and I thought the QB draft class was overrated.  Same goes for the Broncos passing on Allen and Rosen.  Barkley was being called a generational player and you'd be crazy to pass on him if you bought that hype.  He's already the best running back in the league and is an absolute freak reminiscent of Bo Jackson pre injury.  Chubb has 12 sacks through 13 games and needs 3 more to break the rookie sack record. 

Every QB since Luck has had questions.  You still need to invest in the most important position when you have the opportunity.  Who is the sure QB this year?  I am guessing the best this year would have been #5 last year.

[Captain Hindsight]

"Next years QB draft is stacked!"

 

-Every GM that didn't get a QB this year.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Hows Darnold/Mayfield/Rosen/Allen's teams doing in the standings?

 

The Giants arent losing because of Barkley and not passing on those 4 HOFers single handidly carrying their teams. They can still get a QB this year, or sign/trade for a veteran who can step right in with that team and help them right away, using picks to upgrade other spots. They got one of the best players in the draft at the #2 spot who is looking much more like an elite player in the league then any of the 4 QBs drafted this year have.

QBs are expected to struggle as rookies, and they have.  Barkley has been outstanding, as expected, but he’s not going to ever perform much better.  The QBs (assuming they become franchise QBs) will play much better in the next couple years and their teams will win a lot more games as a result. Barkley’s played about as well as he can and his team still hasn’t won.  And it’s not at all clear that whatever QB they land will be anywhere near as good as they guys they could have had this year.  Meanwhile, there is a Barkley-level RB talent available as a street free agent...

[Hebert19]

Not a cut and dry answer.   If there is a Qb you like in 2019 draft you take Barkley and hope for a Gurley goff connection.  Otherwise you get your qb

[prissythecat]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

QBs are expected to struggle as rookies, and they have.  Barkley has been outstanding, as expected, but he’s not going to ever perform much better.  The QBs (assuming they become franchise QBs) will play much better in the next couple years and their teams will win a lot more games as a result. Barkley’s played about as well as he can and his team still hasn’t won.  And it’s not at all clear that whatever QB they land will be anywhere near as good as they guys they could have had this year.  Meanwhile, there is a Barkley-level RB talent available as a street free agent...

 

Hunt is Barkley level?      Also, when is Hunt going to be able to play?   Not until 2020 probably?

[buffaloboyinATL]

100% Barkley without hesitation.  They will draft their QB of the future this year.  There is not another Barkley in next years draft.

[billspro]

Barkley is special and probably good enough to keep them in QB purgatory for the next decade. You need a QB to win in this league and passing on one is a huge mistake. 

[mannc]

Just now, prissythecat said:

 

Hunt is Barkley level?      Also, when is Hunt going to be able to play?   Not until 2020 probably?

He’ll be able to play next year, without a doubt.  He’s never even been charged with a crime, much less convicted.

[billspro]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I don't think anybody would argue that Barkley isn't a good player. The issue is that if he's a top 10-15 RB, which is basically the highest you'll see him rated by any metric, he's underperforming relative to his contract.

 

The Giants took the most valuable asset in football and punted on it.

 

I think he is a top 5 RB already, maybe top 3.

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Just for fun:

 

No doubt Barkley is having an incredible rookie season and proving worthy of such a high pick.  But given the importance of the QB position and seeing Eli is pretty much done and knowing what we know now what would you do in a redraft?  Would you still take Barkley #2 or take Allen (or other one of the QBs) instead?

 

Do you go safe and take the beast at RB?  Or gamble on the sky high upside Allen has been showing?  Or do you go QB but take one of the other guys instead?  Or is there another rookie you take instead?  Remember this is for the Giants, not just who you like more.

 

To answer my own question:

 

It would be a tough choice for me, but I am a believer in Allen and I really think he is going to get there and be a special talent.  I wouldn’t fault anyone who would choose Barkley either, Inmean he is just a beast out there.  But just because it’s harder to find that special QB, I think I would gamble by going with Allens upside even though Barkley is already amongst the best at his position in the NFL.  I love Barkley, so it’s a close call, just really have a lot of confidence in Allens future.  

Good question! 

 

As it happens, the Giants could easily be 8-5 (e.g., losing on the last second to Carolina on a 63-yd fg by an erratic kicker), and Eli is actually having a very good season. He's upper echelon among qbs this year, I think.

[buffalobillswin]

9 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

I thought the Brownies were taking Saquon 1st and then best available qb at 4.

They hit homers with Baker and Denzel Ward though, both game changing players already playing at a high level.

I wonder what the Jets and Giants woud look like now if Cleveland had grabbed Saquon first.

 

It seems they also hit on the Nick Chubb pick. Dude is a baller. Which also illustrates that point that you don't need to draft a rb that high. 

[billspro]

4 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

100% Barkley without hesitation.  They will draft their QB of the future this year.  There is not another Barkley in next years draft.

 

There is may not be a QB of the future in this draft. And they are not in a good position to select one if there is.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

A QB. They had a premium pick in a QB rich draft and blew it. Now they will be left with trying to trade up to get someone they like. As good as Barkley has been, a QB could have transitioned into behind Manning and kept that position solved for a long time.

The question is whether they think Eli has 2-3 years left. I was very critical of the pick at the time, but it is the case that Manning has been very good this year. I don't see any signs of physical decline; he remains who he always was.

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea.

 

Many fans here were claiming the Giants to be the worst team in the league earlier in the season.

 

I never bought it. Too much talent offensively. 

They are still in the hunt. An 8-8 is gonna make it, I think, and they can beat anyone. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by dave mcbride

[SCBills]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

To me - the RB has played well, but even if you draft a QB next year it is probably year 2 or 3 before he is taking the team anyplace - by that point Barkley is in year 4 and looking at a huge contract for a 5th year option or 2nd contract.

 

Therefore to me the wise thing at that spot was to grab a QB, but I get why they did not.  It was similar to the Bills the the year before - new GM/coach combo wanting to scout players and choose a good fit at QB.  I think for Pat Shurmer and that team - Darnold would be a great fit and having time to sit behind Eli would have made this team better now and going forward, but I get it and as I said in the buyers remorse thread - I do not think they are too upset because Barkley has been good.

 

 

 

This.  

 

Assuming (big assumption) that Hebert, Lock or Haskins pans out, as they are way lesser prospects than last years group, by the time they are ready to do anything, it will be time to pay Barkley and that’s going to be a lot of $$$ tied up at WR/RB.  

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

  There is not another Barkley in next years draft.

Nonsense.  The Broncos picked up an undrafted FA who’s been as good as Barkley this year.  

 

There are always great RBs available.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Allen or Darnold. 

 

 And that’s nothing against Barkley as he’s a great player. 

 

It’s just A RB at 2 is way too high IMO, especially when you have a chance to draft a franchise QB

 

 

There is no spot too “high” to take a RB.  A guy like Barkley who looks to be a generational talent like an Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc can certainly be worth taking #1 overall even.  

 

However, that is also highly dependent on a team by team basis.  For example, if the team is also QB needy it’s pretty hard to take a RB this high over say a premiere QB prospect.  

 

So I do agree its harder to justify taking a RB top 2 if you have more pressing needs.  But if QB isn’t there to draft or you don’t need something like a QB or some Elite pass rusher, I don’t see any reason to not take a guy like Barkley.  So I would say more often, a RB is not ideal top 2 pick because if you’re picking top 2 you more likely have bigger needs, but Barkley’s talent is worthy of that high selection if it makes sense for your team to take him there.  

 

I voted Allen because I am a big believer in this kid getting there, and if Allen does indeed get there as a passer his physical gifts will make him special and he has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL and an all time great.  I’m so high on Allen and trust that McBeane will find some new tools for him on the offense that I think we will win our division next year and be a Bears type contender next year with a strong defense and rising offense.

 

[Elite Poster]

This many people taking Barkley are insane. Do you guys realize the next best RB from this class was undrafted and arguably with the same # of touches is more productive than SB.

[formerlyofCtown]

8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Giants might be looking to trade up with the Bills to pick a QB in 2019..

 

What goes around comes comes around

OBJ and a 5th

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

There is no spot too “high” to take a RB.  A guy like Barkley who looks to be a generational talent like an Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc can certainly be worth taking #1 overall even.  

 

However, that is also highly dependent on a team by team basis.  For example, if the team is also QB needy it’s pretty hard to take a RB this high over say a premiere QB prospect.  

 

So I do agree its harder to justify taking a RB top 2 if you have more pressing needs.  But if QB isn’t there to draft or you don’t need something like a QB or some Elite pass rusher, I don’t see any reason to not take a guy like Barkley.  So I would say more often, a RB is not ideal top 2 pick because if you’re picking top 2 you more likely have bigger needs, but Barkley’s talent is worthy of that high selection if it makes sense for your team to take him there.  

 

I voted Allen because I am a big believer in this kid getting there, and if Allen does indeed get there as a passer his physical gifts will make him special and he has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL and an all time great.  I’m so high on Allen and trust that McBeane will find some new tools for him on the offense that I think we will win our division next year and be a Bears type contender next year with a strong defense and rising offense.

 

Good post. I voted for Barkley because I've become an Eli believer again. I also think that Eli is one of those guys with "pretty good" physical skills that don't really decline all that much on a year-to-year basis. He's never been very mobile and has never had a huge arm, but he can make all the throws and doesn't get hurt. There's no reason why he can't be good at age 38 (next year). 

Edited December 14, 2018 by dave mcbride

[formerlyofCtown]

15 minutes ago, mannc said:

He’ll be able to play next year, without a doubt.  He’s never even been charged with a crime, much less convicted.

That wont matter.  The NFL doesnt care if they use drugs or beat women.  The NFL cares if thet get caught doing so.

[Alphadawg7]

Glad people enjoyed the poll, certainly enjoying the comments as lots of good discussion going on and thoughts.  I figured this would be a fun convo

 

Im a little surprised by the results so far.  I’m not surprised the one player with the most votes is Barkley.  I’m also not surprised that QB in general has a lead overall when you combine options.  I’m also not surprised that there are a couple “other” choices which I figure would happen and represent likely Chubb or Ward.  

 

However, I am surprised by a couple things:

 

1.  As of right now Darnold has a 2 vote lead over Allen 34-32.  I honestly didn’t expect that.  I fully expected Darnold to get a decent amount of votes, but assumed Allen would garner more.  I think he’s shown more growth and potential, but I do get Darnold is still an exciting prospect himself.  

 

2.  Where are all the “We drafted the wrong Josh” people?  People had a meltdown and freaked out we didn’t take Rosen.  So many were certain he was the better choice, most pro ready, even the best QB in the draft.  And as of right now he has zero votes...wow.  Even Lamar has 1 vote.  How quickly people have leaped from the Rosen train.  I didn’t expect him to get more than Allen or Darnold, but to see so many people screaming, ranting, and raving about how we screwed up not drafting him, it’s surprising he has zero so far out of over 100 votes all ready cast.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Good post. I voted for Barkley because I've become an Eli believer again. I also think that Eli is one of those guys with "pretty good" physical skills that don't really decline all that much on a year-to-year basis. He's never been very mobile and has never had a huge arm, but he can make all the throws and doesn't get hurt. There's no reason why he can't be good at age 38 (next year). 

I feel the same.  That is why I said I would trade down and get a bunch of Oline.  I believe that will be on their shopping list this season.  They probably made the correct move if Manning continues to rebound and they build up the Oline.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

This many people taking Barkley are insane. Do you guys realize the next best RB from this class was undrafted and arguably with the same # of touches is more productive than SB.

I don’t know. Saquon may have 100 catches this year too. He has a real chance to have 2,200 yards from scrimmage with 15+ TDs. Using the successful UDFA as the example is like using “Brady was a 6th rounder” to advocate scrub QBs. Blue chip guys are never a bad pick and Barkley is an absolute blue chipper. It is one thing to prefer a QB but it isn’t insane to be happy with a guy that gets you 100 catches, 2,200 yards and a TD a game. 

[H2o]

 @ whoever said to pick Lamar Jackson #2 overall

[formerlyofCtown]

18 minutes ago, mannc said:

Nonsense.  The Broncos picked up an undrafted FA who’s been as good as Barkley this year.  

 

There are always great RBs available.

I think there is a difference in the quaility of the Line in front of them.

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t know. Saquon may have 100 catches this year too. He has a real chance to have 2,200 yards from scrimmage with 15+ TDs. Using the successful UDFA as the example is like using “Brady was a 6th rounder” to advocate scrub QBs. Blue chip guys are never a bad pick and Barkley is an absolute blue chipper. It is one thing to prefer a QB but it isn’t insane to be happy with a guy that gets you 100 catches, 2,200 yards and a TD a game. 

Wow hes averaging 2200 yards and a TD per game.  Surprised he doesnt score more averaging 2200 a game.

 

Sorry couldnt resist.

[Dr. Who]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Where are all the “We drafted the wrong Josh” people?  People had a meltdown and freaked out we didn’t take Rosen.  So many were certain he was the better choice, most pro ready, even the best QB in the draft.  And as of right now he has zero votes...wow.  Even Lamar has 1 vote.  How quickly people have leaped from the Rosen train.  I didn’t expect him to get more than Allen or Darnold, but to see so many people screaming, ranting, and raving about how we screwed up not drafting him, it’s surprising he has zero so far out of over 100 votes all ready cast.

26 clearly hasn't read the thread.

[mannc]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t know. Saquon may have 100 catches this year too. He has a real chance to have 2,200 yards from scrimmage with 15+ TDs. Using the successful UDFA as the example is like using “Brady was a 6th rounder” to advocate scrub QBs. Blue chip guys are never a bad pick and Barkley is an absolute blue chipper. It is one thing to prefer a QB but it isn’t insane to be happy with a guy that gets you 100 catches, 2,200 yards and a TD a game. 

But Lindsey’s not really much of an outlier.  Because of the position he plays, Chubb would have been a better pick than Barkley.

[Alphadawg7]

28 minutes ago, mannc said:

He’ll be able to play next year, without a doubt.  He’s never even been charged with a crime, much less convicted.

 

I agree he will be able to play next year, however he is still facing the potential of also being suspended a portion of the season. 

 

There is also the chance that teams may not want to bring him in next year yet and he may not get a chance til 2020.  I personally would give him the chance next year, but teams are so PR adverse right now they may want more time between the incident.

[apuszczalowski]

10 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

This many people taking Barkley are insane. Do you guys realize the next best RB from this class was undrafted and arguably with the same # of touches is more productive than SB.

So there was only one really good RB in the entire draft, with the 2nd best getting passed over by the entire league multiple times in the draft. Yet there were 4-5 QBs taken in the first and none of them are carrying their teams or looking elite at this time

[DCOrange]

32 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

I think he is a top 5 RB already, maybe top 3.

 

And if he is, then it's only a wash of an investment. That's the whole point. Having the 2nd pick in the draft is a gigantic asset to be used at a position where you can actually extract value. Paying an elite QB backup QB money for example is life-changing for an NFL franchise. Taking Bradley Chubb there and having him pan out would be a great value. Taking Saquon and having him pan out is basically a net-zero investment. He's already being paid like an elite player whereas taking a QB, pass rusher, corner, etc. at that spot would be paying them like an average or below average starter.

[BillsFan130]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

There is no spot too “high” to take a RB.  A guy like Barkley who looks to be a generational talent like an Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc can certainly be worth taking #1 overall even.  

 

However, that is also highly dependent on a team by team basis.  For example, if the team is also QB needy it’s pretty hard to take a RB this high over say a premiere QB prospect.  

 

So I do agree its harder to justify taking a RB top 2 if you have more pressing needs.  But if QB isn’t there to draft or you don’t need something like a QB or some Elite pass rusher, I don’t see any reason to not take a guy like Barkley.  So I would say more often, a RB is not ideal top 2 pick because if you’re picking top 2 you more likely have bigger needs, but Barkley’s talent is worthy of that high selection if it makes sense for your team to take him there.  

 

I voted Allen because I am a big believer in this kid getting there, and if Allen does indeed get there as a passer his physical gifts will make him special and he has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL and an all time great.  I’m so high on Allen and trust that McBeane will find some new tools for him on the offense that I think we will win our division next year and be a Bears type contender next year with a strong defense and rising offense.

 

I think it’s too high personally.

 

Hunt, Kamara, David Johnson, Leveon Bell. Just a few guys to name that were taken in the 2nd round or later and are close or at equal talent as Barkley. 

 

There are also tons of other good RBs that you can get late rounds or even undrafted. Like Lindsay or Breida. Not too say those guys are Barkley good, but my point is you can find good RBs in the late rounds, and very good RBS in the 2nd-3rd round range

 

[LSHMEAB]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I thought they made the right call since all of the QB's had serious questions and I thought the QB draft class was overrated.  Same goes for the Broncos passing on Allen and Rosen.  Barkley was being called a generational player and you'd be crazy to pass on him if you bought that hype.  He's already the best running back in the league and is an absolute freak reminiscent of Bo Jackson pre injury.  Chubb has 12 sacks through 13 games and needs 3 more to break the rookie sack record. 

Bingo.

 

You could make a case they should have taken Chubb as pass rusher is more important than RB, but I think they're cool with what they did.

[billspro]

4 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

And if he is, then it's only a wash of an investment. That's the whole point. Having the 2nd pick in the draft is a gigantic asset to be used at a position where you can actually extract value. Paying an elite QB backup QB money for example is life-changing for an NFL franchise. Taking Bradley Chubb there and having him pan out would be a great value. Taking Saquon and having him pan out is basically a net-zero investment. He's already being paid like an elite player whereas taking a QB, pass rusher, corner, etc. at that spot would be paying them like an average or below average starter.

 

It was a horrible pick. Like I said, he is probably good enough to cause them to win enough games to be in QB purgatory for the next decade. Never pass on a QB.

[prissythecat]

39 minutes ago, mannc said:

He’ll be able to play next year, without a doubt.  He’s never even been charged with a crime, much less convicted.

 

 

You don't need to be charged with a crime to be disciplined under the Personal Conduct Policy. If there is evidence that a player violated the policy,  then the NFL has authority to act regardless of any legal charge or conviction.   Goodell is the Law in Kareem's hunt case because of that videotape.

[Dadonkadonk]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Prior to the draft I thought they made a huge mistake passing on a QB.  As it stands, they may end up getting the best qb in the draft next year and may not have to give up much to do so.  If they can get a solid franchise qb this year, I’d say they made the right move.  

 

Unless josh Allen reaches his potential of course.  At that point, they had messed up

There is no QB in 2019 that is the equal of the top 4 QB drafted in 2018.  There isn't one that should even be drafted in the first round though I'm sure a few will be overvalued. 

[Jay_Fixit]

Barkley.

 

He’s the best player on their team and provides a weapon in the passing game was well as on the ground.

 

He’s already a top 3 back in the NFL.

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Barkley.

 

He’s the best player on their team and provides a weapon in the passing game was well as on the ground.

 

He’s already a top 3 back in the NFL.

And yet the Giants still suck because they have been inconsistent at the QB position all year and they have a hard time protecting the QB