McBeane Confidence

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

These are all your idea of their plan. Their actions say different then your ideas. They believed in this team. They did not take a step back. That's your summation.

They are what they've said is their plan.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

Talking about something and doing it are two different things. Or as they used to say, talk is cheap. Tell me what their plan is? They believed this team was going to be good. They believed they would go deeper into the play offs with this team. They tried to add to the team from last year.

 

It's only true believes who are projecting the teams failure into "They wanted to have a rebuild year." What makes people say this I have zero idea. This is only a transition year in the minds of fans who want it to finally work, this time.

Your right....talk is cheap

 

They are not talking.....if you cannot connect the dots to what they are doing with their actions I dont know what to tell you.

 

Your just not patient enough for it

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[dickleyjones]

2 hours ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

My problem with this theory is the Quarterback.  Allen does not look good and if you say they knew that why was Peterman the only thing between him and starting.  My confidence is completely shaken.  Take the trade up for Zay and Edmunds and it's flirting with tire fire status. 

 

Allen is going to learn by doing. He probably should have started from the get go, but they gave Peterman a his chance before Allen got in there. not complicated. As for trades, they traded like lots of teams do, what's the big deal?

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, dickleyjones said:

 

Allen is going to learn by doing. He probably should have started from the get go, but they gave Peterman a his chance before Allen got in there. not complicated. As for trades, they traded like lots of teams do, what's the big deal?

In retrospect I would have preferred they handled the QB situation differently.....I think Josh Allen needed a year to continue to work on mechanics and sit behind a vet.

 

but.....we are on the Tribuski path now.....where he started immediately and looks better in year 2......that is Allen's path now...he needs a team around him and honestly they need to invest a little and get a real QB coach on the staff to work with him day to day

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

In retrospect I would have preferred they handled the QB situation differently.....I think Josh Allen needed a year to continue to work on mechanics and sit behind a vet.

 

but.....we are on the Tribuski path now.....where he started immediately and looks better in year 2......that is Allen's path now...he needs a team around him and honestly they need to invest a little and get a real QB coach on the staff to work with him day to day

 

Trubisky actually started the season behind Mike Glennon.  Glennon played so poorly that the Bears really had no choice but to begin the learn by doing process for Trubisky last season. 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Trubisky actually started the season behind Mike Glennon.  Glennon played so poorly that the Bears really had no choice but to begin the learn by doing process for Trubisky last season. 

Got it...thanks.

 

THis actually makes it even more like the bills situation no?

 

Then they went out in the offseason and got him some wide receivers in free agency

Edited October 26, 2018 by John from Riverside

[Perry Turtle]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Got it...thanks.

 

THis actually makes it even more like the bills situation no?

 

Then they went out in the offseason and got him some wide receivers in free agency

And, like with Goff, they fired their defensive-minded head coach and replaced him with an offensive innovator.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Perry Turtle said:

And, like with Goff, they fired their defensive-minded head coach and replaced him with an offensive innovator.

 

 

That is interesting.

 

Deboll is supposed to be just that.....I wonder just how hamstrung he really is with the lack of offensive talent this year.

[Nihilarian]

It's way to early to pass any kind of Judgement on this regime as they were mislead by the offensive coaching staff. (My belief)

 

The thing is, these men interact with each other and get opinions on what is needed to have a successful season and while McD did lean a bit heavy on the second first round pick and third round pick for the defense. They did go after a QB at #7 which cost them plenty.

 

However, I believe that somebody must have told them that Nathaniel Peterman would be a viable starter this season. That the team would be okay with the current offensive line players, receivers. 

 

What we fans need to do is suck it up and acknowledge that this year is a wash because of a rookie QB, because of bad offensive coaching (line coach, OC) (My belief) What we also need to do is wait to see how the 2019 free agency works out and the 2019 draft.  

 

This offensive coaching staff might be able to turn things around at some point this year and retain their jobs. Although, I highly doubt it. Someone needs to be held accountable for the 32nd pass offense regardless of a rookie QB. Who The F said Peterman was a viable starter while Allen sits? The Bills are around the 20th in rushing with an elite RB that has been hardly utilized even when not injured? Serious questions that need serious answers.  

[QCity]

7 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

I have zero confidence in Beane. I don't think he knows what he's doing. I don't think he has a plan. I don't believe he knows how to build a roster. I don't believe he knows how to judge talent, draft picks or free agents. So far he's reminding me of Donahoe where he just gets athletes and hopes they progress. I do believe McDermott can make a good roster look like the Bengals or Vikings or Steelers.

 

7 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

Talking about something and doing it are two different things. Or as they used to say, talk is cheap. Tell me what their plan is? They believed this team was going to be good. They believed they would go deeper into the play offs with this team. They tried to add to the team from last year.

 

It's only true believes who are projecting the teams failure into "They wanted to have a rebuild year." What makes people say this I have zero idea. This is only a transition year in the minds of fans who want it to finally work, this time.

 

In the past year the team ditched all of it's overpriced baggage, including the QB, and decided to eat a massive amount of dead money rather than kick that feces filled can down the road. It's like hanging a huge neon sign over the stadium that flashes "Rebuild."

 

Now I'm going to be blunt here -- If after a year and a half you still don't understand that "The Process" is just a marketing term for a rebuild, you are an abject fool. Rebuilds don't sell season tickets.

 

 

[US Egg]

"Are you confident that McBeane can turn this thing around ?".....

 

.....if it were a car. But it would likely take both of them.

[PauleeeWalnuts]

They have shown zero evidence they can turn this "thing" around

[C.Biscuit97]

Why is Beane even included? He’s SM’s friend who he hired. SM is running this team.

20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

That is interesting.

 

Deboll is supposed to be just that.....I wonder just how hamstrung he really is with the lack of offensive talent this year.

That’s scary if the Bills thought that.  Daboll’s resume sucks. This is nothing innovative about him. 

[GreggTX]

I 'm not going to assume anything at this point. I thought Poyer was a bad move at the time and he's been very good. Lotulelei is playing a little better each month too. I think he has a shot at this, but his biggest test is still coming this offseason. I know he'll make mistakes, but if he has 2 hits for each miss, we'll be a much better team in 2019.

[Mark92]

We are all assuming that they actually are going to spend the 90 million in Cap space.  Maybe they don't.  Maybe they spend half of it, bring in one reciever and a couple of other linemen.  Then draft the best player available in the 1st, then WR and O line in rounds 2-5.  It's a scary thought but our 1st pick could be a Bosa.  I think McDermott would crap himself if he could add Bosa.  

[SoTier]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:33 AM, oldmanfan said:

Despite them talking constantly about having a plan, they have no plan.  Got it.

 

They talk the talk but don't walk the walk.  They are really good at spouting cliches, though. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

They will be given at the very least one more full year. Beane and McDermott now need to show they can create an offense like they did for the defense. McDermott needs to scout the kids in college and pros with Beane who he thinks fit an offense he hates going up against as a D Cord. I am inclined to stick with Daboll for one more year as well. Daboll can help with player decisions and stability might be a good thing on O. Heck that may be another contributing factor to why the D looks better than the O right now. 

Best thing for everyone is The Bills to have another draft where they find 3-4 starters in. They also need to do the same thing in FA . Find a couple Micah Hyde’s and Poyer’s for the O side of things. A Center would be big, I think of how Alex Mack in Atlanta helped turn that entire line around.

 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

They talk the talk but don't walk the walk.  They are really good at spouting cliches, though. 

Says the consppiracy theorist who thinks this is all because the Pegulas want your money.

[Mark92]

  It's a scary thought but our 1st pick could be a D player.  I think McDermott would crap himself if he could add Bosa.  

  He absolutely botched Josh Allen's 1st year.  The QB coach has never ever been a QB coach anywhere.   We have a pretty bad O Line and WR's who shouldn't be playing in the NFL.  I don't disagree with the Allen pick but if you're going to pick the QB that needs development for God's sake put him in a situation to develop.  

[SoTier]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:42 AM, oldmanfan said:

They have discussed their plan constantly. They want to be competitive short term while building a team that is a contender long term.  Thee were competitive last year, as in a playoff team.   They talked about clearing cap space.  They have.  They talked about how you can't win in the league without a QB.  They drafted one. 

 

This year sucks so far because they are taking a huge cap hit to clear space, and because they screwed up a couple things, like not getting a guy like Anderson here earlier.  But don't come on here and say they have no plan.  They do.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they have no plan.

 

Don't you ever get tired of doing intellectual gymnastics in defense of McDermott and his sidekick?  They didn't just screw up just "a couple things".  They totally and completely screwed up the entire QB situation, from passing on Mahomes to wasting a pick on Peterman to overpaying for Allen to keeping Peterman and even naming him the starter for the opening game to waiting around for a month to bring in another member of "the Carolina gang", in this case a 35-year-old retiree who hadn't played in at least 2 years and hadn't started a game in 7.  Nothing says "clueless" and "incompetent" more than McDermott waiting a month to bring in a better backup QB than Peterman and it being Derek Anderson.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

Don't you ever get tired of doing intellectual gymnastics in defense of McDermott and his sidekick?  They didn't just screw up just "a couple things".  They totally and completely screwed up the entire QB situation, from passing on Mahomes to wasting a pick on Peterman to overpaying for Allen to keeping Peterman and even naming him the starter for the opening game to waiting around for a month to bring in another member of "the Carolina gang", in this case a 35-year-old retiree who hadn't played in at least 2 years and hadn't started a game in 7.  Nothing says "clueless" and "incompetent" more than McDermott waiting a month to bring in a better backup QB than Peterman and it being Derek Anderson.

Well, at least we recouped that fifth round pick with the McCarron trade.  Oh, wait...

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Don't you ever get tired of doing intellectual gymnastics in defense of McDermott and his sidekick?  They didn't just screw up just "a couple things".  They totally and completely screwed up the entire QB situation, from passing on Mahomes to wasting a pick on Peterman to overpaying for Allen to keeping Peterman and even naming him the starter for the opening game to waiting around for a month to bring in another member of "the Carolina gang", in this case a 35-year-old retiree who hadn't played in at least 2 years and hadn't started a game in 7.  Nothing says "clueless" and "incompetent" more than McDermott waiting a month to bring in a better backup QB than Peterman and it being Derek Anderson.

You are full of it. Hate to say it so bluntly but you are.   You did not have any clue Mahomes would be this good before last year's draft.  Not at that time.  And you now use hindsight to say you did.  That is crap.

 

I have said a number of times now they messed up by not bringing in Anderson or another vet when McCarron got traded. So another false accusation by you.  

 

You are the one that gets ridiculous around here.  You go on and on about past poor decisions as if the current regime has anything to do with those.  You rant about how the Pegulas don't care and just want money.  

 

Your schtick is old and tired.  They made decisions this year to get rid of cap space, which in turn meant getting rid of guys that didn't measure up.  They drafted a guy they think will be their QB.  Next off season they have to hit draft picks and FAs to improve the offense.  If they do well the team will be successful.  If not they won't.

 

That's reality.  Not the depressive fantasy you choose for yourself.

Edited October 28, 2018 by oldmanfan

[Bring it]

I’m still supporting Mcbeane at this point. I realize now that this is going to be a 3-5 year rebuild and we are 1-1/2 years in! What else are you supposed to do with the cap? Dareus contract was excessively bloated on an undependable player that wasn’t in any way a quality leader on or off the field. Watkins was admittedly underperforming! 

This defense is very good right now, but young in some key areas! The arrow is definitely pointing up!

Offense is a rebuild. I look at Benjamin and McCoy as short term bridges that will not be here long! Allen has potential but like all the other rookies in his class are not a sure thing. And they are still looking IMO for that OC that they can turn the reins of the offense over to.

 

Has the culture changed? Definitely in the areas of work ethic and what’s expected. Someone mentioned the insistence on a fundamental Christian locker room! It does seem to be that way. The Super Bowl champions of last year have very faith based team or at least from what I’ve heard. I don’t know if it hurt things for them.

This draft will be big as will the next. We need key players on offense. The loss of Kyle Williams and Alexander to a lesser degree because he hasn’t been here his whole career,  will be key to replacing as far as leadership!

 

Im going to give the benefit of the doubt for at least 2 more years cause I don’t see us really having any choice unless you want to start all over with a new regime. 

  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:51 PM, LSHMEAB said:

That's fine, but what has Beane done to instill ANY confidence at all?

 

At least McDermott has found a way to win some close games. He may very well suck as a head coach, but Beane has done absolutely nothing. The roster is a mess. And if you want to blame that on McDermott, what exactly does Beane even do?

 

Is he like Kramer TCB'ing all day at Brandt Leyland?

 

Beane has made some promising acquisitions on defense by trade, FA, and draft.

[stuvian]

I can't believe the level of negativity so early into the regime. Did anyone think we'd just erase 19 years of organizational dysfunction in 18 months? This organization had to be rebuilt from scratch. This is the first time we've had a GM and coach be philosophically on the same page since the Bill Polian/John Butler days. 

 

This season is a wash but I understand it. Beane has shown that he can effectively improve our draft position through trades. You can't raise the Titanic over night. 

 

We've seen much worse in my 14 years as a season ticket holder. These posts just show that generation snowflake has the attention span of a gnat.

 

I expect that we'll sniff a wildcard next year and challenge for the division in year 4

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I can't believe the level of negativity so early into the regime. Did anyone think we'd just erase 19 years of organizational dysfunction in 18 months? This organization had to be rebuilt from scratch. This is the first time we've had a GM and coach be philosophically on the same page since the Bill Polian/John Butler days. 

 

This season is a wash but I understand it. Beane has shown that he can effectively improve our draft position through trades. You can't raise the Titanic over night. 

 

We've seen much worse in my 14 years as a season ticket holder. These posts just show that generation snowflake has the attention span of a gnat.

 

I expect that we'll sniff a wildcard next year and challenge for the division in year 4

 

It didn't have to. They made that choice and let's hope that it works out for the Bills to enjoy sustained success as a perennial playoff team that contends for championships.

[Boca BIlls]

This has to be the best draft ever for Beane to be successful.  Most important draft of his young career coming up in April. 

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It didn't have to. They made that choice and let's hope that it works out for the Bills to enjoy sustained success as a perennial playoff team that contends for championships.

Absolutely right it didn't have to.

 

If tearing it down was an answer why has no other middle of the pack team ever done it? I mean the Cowboys went 8-8 for 3 straight years under Garrett according to all the armchair alphas here they should have tore down and rebuilt. They didn't and their a good team. 

 

There was no need to tear it down to the studs, none what so ever. Doing that screams incompetence. 

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Absolutely right it didn't have to.

 

If tearing it down was an answer why has no other middle of the pack team ever done it? I mean the Cowboys went 8-8 for 3 straight years under Garrett according to all the armchair alphas here they should have tore down and rebuilt. They didn't and their a good team. 

 

There was no need to tear it down to the studs, none what so ever. Doing that screams incompetence. 

You saying the Cowboys are a good team is amusing.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Beane has made some promising acquisitions on defense by trade, FA, and draft.

 

 

With the league legislating in more offense every season and with defense being the side of the ball that is easiest to re-build quickly but the fastest to fade it was a dubious decision to start a re-build with the defense.

 

Go back to the end of the 2016 season and the Bills and Chiefs were in a similar situation..........the Bills had a better offense with a lot of young/prime age players and a comparably talented defense......but the two organizations chose different paths and the result a year and a half later is Buffalo heading into a deeper rebuild while KC is in SB contention.

 

It CLEARLY has not been expertly done by McBeane.

 

It's OK to expect more.........Jeff Lurie fired Andy Reid after just one losing season and then his successor in-season who was coming off back-to-back 10 win seasons...........and two years later he had a dominant team that ultimately won the SB.

 

You don't have to trust a process for 3-5 years to achieve success...........the owner just needs to know who to hire next.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

With the league legislating in more offense every season and with defense being the side of the ball that is easiest to re-build quickly but the fastest to fade it was a dubious decision to start a re-build with the defense.

 

Go back to the end of the 2016 season and the Bills and Chiefs were in a similar situation..........the Bills had a better offense with a lot of young/prime age players and a comparably talented defense......but the two organizations chose different paths and the result a year and a half later is Buffalo heading into a deeper rebuild while KC is in SB contention.

 

It CLEARLY has not been expertly done by McBeane.

 

It's OK to expect more.........Jeff Lurie fired Andy Reid after just one losing season and then his successor in-season who was coming off back-to-back 10 win seasons...........and two years later he had a dominant team that ultimately won the SB.

 

You don't have to trust a process for 3-5 years to achieve success...........the owner just needs to know who to hire next.

 

You make some valid points.  I was addressing the question "what has Beane done to instill any confidence at all?"

 

It remains to be seen as to whether Beane and McDermott actually are following a coherent plan, and then whether it's a Good Plan. 

 

I don't know that I entirely agree with the comparison between the end of 2016 Bills and Chiefs.  The Chiefs had been a 11-5, 12-6 team and gone to playoffs 3 of the last 4 years with a D ranked #3 and #7 on points while the Bills were a midpack 15th and 16th on D, and comparable offensive production with some talent - but that's water under the bridge now and doesn't change the point that different approaches to improvement were possible, and arguably more proven/more likely to succeed.

 

Time will tell.  I personally am with you in disliking it.

[Big Gun]

21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You saying the Cowboys are a good team is amusing.

Not saying that but their not a horrible team like the Bills are.  

 

I'm saying they didn't blow it all up after going .500 for 3 years straight like how you uninformed Bills fans seem to think a playoff appearance means blow it all up. No, they have made 2 playoff appearances 12-4 and 13-3 which indicates they seem to have a clue instead of just throwing up their hands, shaking their head and saying blow it all up because we can never expand with the current good young players, the only answer is to trade everyone any good away to suck and suck bad for 5 years. It works in other sports and doesn't in the NFL, how are the Browns doing? How bout after the Lions 0 fer year? maybe the Jags, who should have lost last year had the Bills gotten any decent QB play, not so hot this year. Eagles didn't tank and get rid of all of Chip Kellys players. Seahawks never tanked, 7-9 in Carrolls first year and got better since, Rams didn't tank under Fisher, they were just horribly coached, a 7-9 middling team for 5 years, then McVay came in and has gone 18-5 since.

 

In the last 20 years name team that has purposely tanked then reached the SB? You can't name one because good organizations don't do it. Why should I blindly believe that this is the correct way to go since history has yet to prove that it works not even once. I'll believe it when I see it, as it stands right now this team has so many holes it will be years before they are competitive. That's all if McBean goes 80% or better in draft and FA.    

 

 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Beane has made some promising acquisitions on defense by trade, FA, and draft.

I guess I'm questioning who's actually making the personnel decisions. It seems a little murky, but perhaps you have more detailed knowledge.

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Not saying that but their not a horrible team like the Bills are.  

 

I'm saying they didn't blow it all up after going .500 for 3 years straight like how you uninformed Bills fans seem to think a playoff appearance means blow it all up. No, they have made 2 playoff appearances 12-4 and 13-3 which indicates they seem to have a clue instead of just throwing up their hands, shaking their head and saying blow it all up because we can never expand with the current good young players, the only answer is to trade everyone any good away to suck and suck bad for 5 years. It works in other sports and doesn't in the NFL, how are the Browns doing? How bout after the Lions 0 fer year? maybe the Jags, who should have lost last year had the Bills gotten any decent QB play, not so hot this year. Eagles didn't tank and get rid of all of Chip Kellys players. Seahawks never tanked, 7-9 in Carrolls first year and got better since, Rams didn't tank under Fisher, they were just horribly coached, a 7-9 middling team for 5 years, then McVay came in and has gone 18-5 since.

 

In the last 20 years name team that has purposely tanked then reached the SB? You can't name one because good organizations don't do it. Why should I blindly believe that this is the correct way to go since history has yet to prove that it works not even once. I'll believe it when I see it, as it stands right now this team has so many holes it will be years before they are competitive. That's all if McBean goes 80% or better in draft and FA.    

 

 

 

 

Theydidn't and their a good team. 

 

This is directly from your post.  And when called on it now you say you're not saying that.

 

It is an example of why this board is infuriating at times.  People say things, make claims and then just deny them when it all of a sudden doesn't support reality.

[LSHMEAB]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Theydidn't and their a good team. 

 

This is directly from your post.  And when called on it now you say you're not saying that.

 

It is an example of why this board is infuriating at times.  People say things, make claims and then just deny them when it all of a sudden doesn't support reality.

He should have qualified it; They're a good team "compared to the Bills." 

 

Would that work better for you?

[oldmanfan]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

He should have qualified it; They're a good team "compared to the Bills." 

 

Would that work better for you?

Better.  But you see this all the time around here.  Statements are made and then just denied or claimed they were taken wrong etc.  

 

Make  a statement, take a position, and own it.

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You make some valid points.  I was addressing the question "what has Beane done to instill any confidence at all?"

 

It remains to be seen as to whether Beane and McDermott actually are following a coherent plan, and then whether it's a Good Plan. 

 

I don't know that I entirely agree with the comparison between the end of 2016 Bills and Chiefs.  The Chiefs had been a 11-5, 12-6 team and gone to playoffs 3 of the last 4 years with a D ranked #3 and #7 on points while the Bills were a midpack 15th and 16th on D, and comparable offensive production with some talent - but that's water under the bridge now and doesn't change the point that different approaches to improvement were possible, and arguably more proven/more likely to succeed.

 

Time will tell.  I personally am with you in disliking it.

 

 

I was just speaking about talent.    The Bills vastly underperformed defensively under Ryan.   The Bills and KC matched up a lot during the Marrone/Rex years and again last year and the general feeling was that the Chiefs were the older veteran-lead team and the Bills were the young team making dumb mistakes.   If not for the Mahomes trade the Chiefs probably cycle out this year and Andy Reid moves on.........that changed everything.   After years of success they got old on defense and didn't have the chips to re-build a team on both sides of the ball.    They did the smart thing and efficiently facilitated a new launch without stepping back.  McBeane had similar or better chips to start with but is doing this the hard way.........which usually equates to not doing it at all in the NFL.

[Radar]

On 10/22/2018 at 2:18 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

Does it make you feel big to make ad hominem attacks on others?

 

I get the people who are losing faith in McD.  He's been something like a .500 coach thus far.   He's made mistakes.

I don't get the mean-spiritedness and childishness.  Why do need to make up derogatory nicknames (McDumbass) and call people idiot?    Are we in middle school?  How does childish rudeness make the dialogue here better - more fun or insightful?

Seems you have good insight into the mentality of many forum and talk show participants.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

.sure things are painful now but you have three relatively new neophytes in their respective positions ala McBeane as GM, McDermott as HC and Daboll as OC (Frazier at DC is the crusty 'ol vet).....that trio has a big learning curve despite all of the kicking and screaming to the contrary......so IMO, 2019 is a hugely pivotal and defining year for them with 10 picks and megabucks in the FA cookie jar.....if we are in the SAME position next year at this time, limping/wallowing along, the trio's future certainly has to be called into question............