Draft another qb next year

[billsredneck1]

16 hours ago, peterpan said:

Trade mCcoy for foles.  It makes too much sense.  If he walks as a fa we get a third round comp pick.  We can tag him for a few years if Allen does develop.  Sign him long term if he works out

this needs to happen today! i would rather give up a 2nd....which would basically be a late 1st.

[Big Gun]

7 minutes ago, DougFlutie7 said:

He is. It’s not even close. 

Until he's not

[DCOrange]

9 hours ago, Rob's House said:

I was thinking the same thing. Admittedly, the whole discussion is a bit premature wrt Allen, but at the end of EJ's rookie year anyone with eyes knew that he was too awkward to become a franchise guy.

 

Allen definitely looks smoother, and is playing with an inferior supporting cast, but by year's end they should have a pretty good idea of what they have in him. 

 

If the outlook is grim, I'd hate to pass on the next Derek Carr because of a commitment to the sunk cost in the next EJ.

 

If you want the next Derek Carr, you could probably just trade for him based on the reports out of Oakland.

 

At any rate, I give it about a 5% chance that this front office drafts another QB in the first two rounds this offseason (unless Allen suffers a catastrophic injury).

[SydneyBillsFan]

If we could give Tyrod 3 years with an above average O-line then surely Allen deserves at least 2 with a poor one before we lay the boot into him.

[Rob's House]

10 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

If you want the next Derek Carr, you could probably just trade for him based on the reports out of Oakland.

 

At any rate, I give it about a 5% chance that this front office drafts another QB in the first two rounds this offseason (unless Allen suffers a catastrophic injury).

I don't think they will either, nor do I want them to at this point. I'm speaking more generally to the dogmatic view that you never draft QBs high two years in a row.

[JM57]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Rosen’s 0 Td’s yesterday would have helped us win all the games ??‍♂️??‍♂️

Rosen had 240 yards yesterday. Allen has 166 the last two weeks. 

[Bangarang]

We might take a developmental guy but I wouldn’t expect this regime to draft one high.

 

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, JM57 said:

Rosen had 240 yards yesterday. Allen has 166 the last two weeks. 

 

And has won zero games.      Do you have a point to make ? 

 

We should draft a qb who can pass for 240 yards and throw zero td’s ? 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[oldmanfan]

All the rookie QBs are learning.  Mayfield had a tough day yesterday.  Darnold has ups and downs.  Rosen the same.  Allen may have a longer learning time given he came from a smaller program.

 

But they all have a lot to learn.

[Dopey]

16 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Agreed from Bills standpoint. Roseman hasn’t shown a willingness to deal him though and who would the Eagles have behind Wentz then?

Let's sweeten the deal by adding Nate the Great?!?!

 

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

We might take a developmental guy but I wouldn’t expect this regime to draft one high.

 

 

If things don't improve between now and week 17 they might not have a choice.

 

This is shaping up to be a similar situation to how we handled EJ Manuel. He had a mediocre rookie season and faded badly down the stretch. Instead of bringing in competition, we went "all in" on EJ, trading the farm for Sammy Watkins. 4 weeks into the next season he was benched for Kyle Orton.

 

If Allen stays as is, they can't go all in on him the same way Whaley went all in on EJ. They definitely need to bring in a real plan B who can actually challenge for the starting gig.

[Bangarang]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

If things don't improve between now and week 17 they might not have a choice.

 

This is shaping up to be a similar situation to how we handled EJ Manuel. He had a mediocre rookie season and faded badly down the stretch. Instead of bringing in competition, we went "all in" on EJ, trading the farm for Sammy Watkins. 4 weeks into the next season he was benched for Kyle Orton.

 

If Allen stays as is, they can't go all in on him the same way Whaley went all in on EJ. They definitely need to bring in a real plan B who can actually challenge for the starting gig.

 

I don’t expect things to just magically improve this year. I think the Allen we see now is the Allen we are going to get the entire year. People will still blame this guy and that guy for Allen’s shortcomings and hype up his development and growth for next season. We’ll get to a point where the excuses will run dry and we can start this process all over again.

 

Seeing as how this regime handled the QB situation the first time, I wouldn’t want them to have another crack at it. They can ride it out with Allen until the inevitable happens. Then we can talk about having to rebuild under another regime and how it’ll take years to undo what BB and McD did. 

[oldmanfan]

Rosen yesterday:  21/31 for 240 (11.4 yards/completion).  No TD's 1 pick.

 

Mayfield yesterday:  22/46 for 238 yards (10.8 per completion).  1 TD and 2 picks.

 

Allen:  10/17, 84 yards (8.4 per completion; 0 TDs and 0 picks

 

Darnold:  24/30 for 288 (11.7 per completion)

 

Average yardage per completion lower for Allen, Darnold played well and the other three struggled.

 

This is what happens with rookie QBs. 

[87168]

30 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

If we could give Tyrod 3 years with an above average O-line then surely Allen deserves at least 2 with a poor one before we lay the boot into him.

the OL was not above avg, and on top of that TT was not a taken 7th overall.

 

...needless to say, I think most people expect a little more out a 1st rounder, 7th overall pick. I'll say this once more. I don't place any blame on JA. he has a lot of learning ahead, but that's to be expected from a rookie. the infraction falls on the Clap N Bean.

Edited October 15, 2018 by 87168

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

I don’t expect things to just magically improve this year. I think the Allen we see now is the Allen we are going to get the entire year. People will still blame this guy and that guy for Allen’s shortcomings and hype up his development and growth for next season. We’ll get to a point where the excuses will run dry and we can start this process all over again.

 

Seeing as how this regime handled the QB situation the first time, I wouldn’t want them to have another crack at it. They can ride it out with Allen until the inevitable happens. Then we can talk about having to rebuild under another regime and how it’ll take years to undo what BB and McD did. 

 

I totally agree.

 

Allen has shown me nothing that suggests he's going to be a successful NFL QB. He was a no body in high school, a mediocre prospect at JUCO, and a middle of the road QB in the Mountain West Conference. He's a big, strong, mobile, smart guy who unfortunately has very little skill when it comes to actually playing quarterback and passing the football. He's not a natural passer, and he's shown next to nothing that suggests he can consistently read a defense. If his primary read isn't open, his instinct is to run. When there's pressure around him, his eyes consistently drop which is a critical flaw with QBs. 

 

The issue is that I think McDermott is actually a really good coach. What he's done with the defense has been outstanding, and I think he's good at identifying problems on tape and correcting them in practice. The OL has been getting better despite featuring hardly any talent, and the defense looks like one of the best units in the league despite featuring limited high end talent. 

 

The problem is in the front office and particularly with the decisions they've made at QB. Going into this season with only Peterman and Allen on the roster was inexcusable. It's been a complete disaster through 6 weeks. 

 

Peterman can't play, and Allen has looked lost out there. As all the scouting reports said, he needed at least a year or two on the bench learning before he'd have to play, and we had him on the field halfway through the first game.

 

They've shown that they don't know what a good QB looks like, and as you said why would you let these guys have another shot at picking another guy?

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

 

 

I agree with this.  I am willing to give Allen a chance, it has been only 5 games, but....the thing that concerns me is that Allen is who I thought he was.   He was not very good in college.  Look at his stats last year @ Wyoming.  The only game he threw for over 300 yards was against Gardner Webb.  I believe he threw for like 60 yards against Oregon & 94 yards against Hawaii, who had a horrible defense.  His completion % was in the mid 50s his two years a s a starter.  The accuracy and ball placement are just not there.  Coupled that with the fact that he doesn't really read defenses well & given the fact what the Bills traded up to get him & this is going to set the franchise back for years.  I just can't believe time & time again that the pro's that are paid to evaluate overlook production in college & accuracy in college & are mesmorized because the guy could throw it 90 yards in the air.  I hope this works out but I have serious doubts it will.  Watching Allen play, I don't know how anybody could not.  

From what I can tell, he had new wrs last year. He had a decent 2016 season, but 2017 was with all new receivers except maybe 1. That will affect any qb. You don't get nearly the time in college as the nfl to get used to your new guys. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

17 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

And has won zero games.      Do you have a point to make ? 

 

We should draft a qb who can pass for 240 yards and throw zero td’s ? 

Hey dummy, we didn’t need an amazing performance out of a qb. We needed borderline avg in order to win. 240 yards passing mixed with our amazing defense and run game wins the game. But Allen fits the “culture”

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Hey dummy, we didn’t need an amazing performance out of a qb. We needed borderline avg in order to win. 240 yards passing mixed with our amazing defense and run game wins the game. But Allen fits the “culture”

 

So we can win a game with zero td’s and 1 int from Rosen.   

 

Interesting math 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Dopey]

The skins were ridiculed for taking Cousins in the same draft they took RG. It worked out for them. Having said this, if Allen shows improvement, still draft a qb somewhere to bolster the position, along with a vet. You're always one high ankle sprain away from starting someome else.

[Rocbillsfan1]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

 

So we can win a game with zero td’s from Rosen.   

 

Interesting math 

Sure passings tds aren’t the only way to get tds. Field goals also help. How good was Allen again yesterday? 

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I totally agree.

 

Allen has shown me nothing that suggests he's going to be a successful NFL QB. He was a no body in high school, a mediocre prospect at JUCO, and a middle of the road QB in the Mountain West Conference. He's a big, strong, mobile, smart guy who unfortunately has very little skill when it comes to actually playing quarterback and passing the football. He's not a natural passer, and he's shown next to nothing that suggests he can consistently read a defense. If his primary read isn't open, his instinct is to run. When there's pressure around him, his eyes consistently drop which is a critical flaw with QBs. 

 

The issue is that I think McDermott is actually a really good coach. What he's done with the defense has been outstanding, and I think he's good at identifying problems on tape and correcting them in practice. The OL has been getting better despite featuring hardly any talent, and the defense looks like one of the best units in the league despite featuring limited high end talent. 

 

The problem is in the front office and particularly with the decisions they've made at QB. Going into this season with only Peterman and Allen on the roster was inexcusable. It's been a complete disaster through 6 weeks. 

 

Peterman can't play, and Allen has looked lost out there. As all the scouting reports said, he needed at least a year or two on the bench learning before he'd have to play, and we had him on the field halfway through the first game.

 

They've shown that they don't know what a good QB looks like, and as you said why would you let these guys have another shot at picking another guy?

 

In 3 games this season, Allen has averaged more yards per rush than yards per pass. He has more rushing TDs than passing TDs. It’s 2018, how is that even possible?

 

The analytics were all wrong though. When it comes to QBs, we always have the exception to the rule. It’s less disappointing to believe your guy can be the next Aikman or Favre than Locker or Gabbert.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Bangarang

[Kirby Jackson]

The ? takes are flying around on a Monday morning.

 

If you expected a lot more out of Allen at this point you weren’t familiar with Allen prior to the draft. This was a high ceiling, low floor prospect with a massive learning curve. It was ALWAYS going to take time. Anyone passing judgement at this point is an idiot. 

[Chuck Wagon]

I'm certainly hoping Allen works out.

 

That being said, a massive tire fire of a failure the next season and a half leading to Tua + a young offensive minded HC (someone like DiFilipo) sounds pretty appetizing.  

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The ? takes are flying around on a Monday morning.

 

If you expected a lot more out of Allen at this point you weren’t familiar with Allen prior to the draft. This was a high ceiling, low floor prospect with a massive learning curve. It was ALWAYS going to take time. Anyone passing judgement at this point is an idiot. 

 

 

I think they win yesterday if Allen didn't get hurt, which would put him at 3-2 as the starter.  The hot take artist opinions would be A LOT different around here if that was the case.  My concern is still mainly an offensive support system that requires Allen to put on a superman cape just to get 3 points.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Chuck Wagon

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

In 3 games this season, Allen has averaged more yards per rush than yards per pass. He has more rushing TDs than passing TDs. It’s 2018, how is that even possible?

 

The analytics were all wrong though. When it comes to QBs, we always have the exception to the rule. It’s less disappointing to believe your guy can be the next Aikman or Favre than Locker or Gabbert.

 

Our passing offense is historically bad. 

 

There hasn't been a passing offense that's averaged close to 123 yards per game since the 2009 Cleveland Browns. Prior to that it's the 2005 49ers. 

 

We can't throw the football like anyone else in the NFL. 

[T master]

They should do like other good teams & draft a QB every year until they find "The Guy" or bring in others & put them on the practice squad Faulk is still out there & he looked decent in the Titans pre season let him run the practice team ...

[Mrbojanglezs]

Allen is a raw/high ceiling prospect, he will take time to make the jump from a lowly Wyoming program to the NFL.

 

He will get 2-3 years minimum. If you don't like it, better look for a new team to root for.

 

I would be shocked if they drafted a qb in the first 2 rounds next year.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, T master said:

They should do like other good teams & draft a QB every year until they find "The Guy" or bring in others & put them on the practice squad Faulk is still out there & he looked decent in the Titans pre season let him run the practice team ...

 

Which good teams drafted a QB every year until they got it right?

[MAJBobby]

If season continues like is. ABSOLUTELY take a QB with the 1st overall pick 

[jrober38]

10 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Allen is a raw/high ceiling prospect, he will take time to make the jump from a lowly Wyoming program to the NFL.

 

He will get 2-3 years minimum. If you don't like it, better look for a new team to root for.

 

I would be shocked if they drafted a qb in the first 2 rounds next year.

 

He's also got a rock bottom floor.

 

If Allen continues to look lost throughout the rest of the season, it might make sense to fold our hand vs double down and inevitably lose 2 years down the road. 

 

I'm not saying the Bills are going to cut Josh Allen, but if there's no improvement between now and the end of the season you have to bring in a serious Plan B next year. You can't go all in on a guy who has looked this bad and just hope and pray he gets better. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by jrober38

[T master]

Just now, Bangarang said:

 

Which good teams drafted a QB every year until they got it right?

 

Pretty much The Patriots they got it right continued to draft QB's then used them as trade bait to get more draft picks !! 

 

Of coarse they could have been like the Bills & just stopped drafting QB's when they got Brady (or thought they found someone) but they didn't , maybe it wasn't "every single year" but they always had a influx of QB's to look at because they know how important the position is 

[Bangarang]

Just now, T master said:

 

Pretty much The Patriots they got it right continued to draft QB's then used them as trade bait to get more draft picks !! 

 

Of coarse they could have been like the Bills & just stopped drafting QB's when they got Brady (or thought they found someone) but they didn't , maybe it wasn't "every single year" but they always had a influx of QB's to look at because they know how important the position is 

 

The Patriots example doesn’t suppport the claim you made.

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, T master said:

They should do like other good teams & draft a QB every year until they find "The Guy" or bring in others & put them on the practice squad Faulk is still out there & he looked decent in the Titans pre season let him run the practice team ...

 

This makes sense in theory, but:

 

1. Buffalo has so many needs right now that they really can't afford to sacrifice a draft pick every year like this on guys that ideally won't even play a snap for them.

2. Buffalo specifically drafted a QB prospect that they knew would be bad Year 1 in the hopes that he'll be good in Year 3 or maybe Year 2 if they're lucky. It doesn't really make sense for them to draft another QB early this offseason because they almost certainly will still believe Allen is the guy by the end of the year.

[Buffalo03]

I don't know why people keep posting or talking about stuff like this. We're not drafting another QB early next year. We may get a mid to late prospect but we are not taking one in the first round

[nedboy7]

Let’s ruin a QB every year. Oh and make sure you trade up for that QB.  That’s the process. 

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

Let’s ruin a QB every year. Oh and make sure you trade up for that QB.  That’s the process. 

I don't think Allen is ruined. He's just not very good

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

There is no one worthy.

 

And if the season continues as is with Allen and the offense struggling I think you do everything possible to bring in a highly touted offensive coach who's willing to work with him. If it means firing McDermott than do it.

 

Said Every year 

 

ooo I am on board with Firing McD if the offense continues like this. To be honest I dont want this regime making another QB decision anyway 

[Gordio]

59 minutes ago, 87168 said:

the OL was not above avg, and on top of that TT was not a taken 7th overall.

 

...needless to say, I think most people expect a little more out a 1st rounder, 7th overall pick. I'll say this once more. I don't place any blame on JA. he has a lot of learning ahead, but that's to be expected from a rookie. the infraction falls on the Clap N Bean.

 

 

Agreed.  The good news with Allen is he does possess a rocket arm & is athletic.  The bad news is he is not accurate.  People seem to think you could teach accuracy, I am a firm believer that you can not.  Either a guy is accurate or he is not.  Van Miller once told me when discussing JP Losman he said "this kid will never make it because he is not accurate."  That was right before Losman was going into his first year as a starter(his second year in the league.)

45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The ? takes are flying around on a Monday morning.

 

If you expected a lot more out of Allen at this point you weren’t familiar with Allen prior to the draft. This was a high ceiling, low floor prospect with a massive learning curve. It was ALWAYS going to take time. Anyone passing judgement at this point is an idiot. 

 

 

The problem is Allen is exactly who I thought he was.  Maybe he gets better, my guess is he doesn't.  The Bills are married to him now though.  There is noway they are drafting a QB high next year.  No matter how bad he looks though, I really hope the Bills don't start Anderson.  Allen needs to play.  Personally I would draft another QB next year in the first round if there is a guy you believe in, but there is no way this regime does that.

 

I think we could all agree that the way the league is a successful NFL QB needs to hit at a minimum 60% completion %.  He hit on 55% completion % in college, why in the would anybody think Allen could accomplish this in the NFL when he couldn't even come close to doing this in the MWC?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Gordio

[Teddy KGB]

46 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Our passing offense is historically bad. 

 

There hasn't been a passing offense that's averaged close to 123 yards per game since the 2009 Cleveland Browns. Prior to that it's the 2005 49ers. 

 

We can't throw the football like anyone else in the NFL. 

 

Say it another 80 times.  Someone might have missed it 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

If the "RIGHT" QB fell to us in the draft, then I say, why not. Similar to how the Skins took Cousins after drafting RG3. Reaching or trading for a QB will make me wanna break my TV. 

[T master]

38 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The Patriots example doesn’t suppport the claim you made.

 

Okay only half the time that Brady has been there did they draft a QB, Brady got there in 2000 & since then they have drafted 9 QB's & used a few for trade bait.

 

I couldn't find out how many UDFA QB's they brought in since then but i'm thinking there may have been a couple in that time frame & although being a UDFA QB would bolster your claim that the Pats aren't a good example it may increase the over all amount of QB's brought in just saying ...