Would you rather have: Mahomes or both Allen & Tre?

[vincec]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

At the very least you need to consider all the players that were traded in order to get the draft capital which was all used to select Allen.

Shhh. You're ruining the party.

Edited September 25, 2018 by vincec

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

At the very least you need to consider all the players that were traded in order to get the draft capital which was all used to select Allen.

you guys all realize the current regime wasn't even in place for the 2017 draft right?  I mean McD was here for about 10 minutes, but Whaley was still the GM and Russ Brandon was still making football decisions with input from Littmann and Overdorf.  Beane wasn't even on board yet.  Is there some reporting the McD didn't want Mahomes?  Otherwise, this is a useless comparison.  For all we know, a Beane-McDermott draft team would have taken Mahomes.

[Jauronimo]

19 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

you guys all realize the current regime wasn't even in place for the 2017 draft right?  I mean McD was here for about 10 minutes, but Whaley was still the GM and Russ Brandon was still making football decisions with input from Littmann and Overdorf.  Beane wasn't even on board yet.  Is there some reporting the McD didn't want Mahomes?  Otherwise, this is a useless comparison.  For all we know, a Beane-McDermott draft team would have taken Mahomes.

Whaley was a figurehead GM who was dismissed immediately after the draft.  If you think a lame duck GM was allowed to make major decisions shaping the future of the franchise, then I urge you to think again.  If you think Russ was making draft day decisions other than which ass to grab after his 3rd vodka cran, then I urge you to think a third time today (take time off for headaches). 

 

By all accounts we selected players in that draft that were coveted by the Panthers.  There is zero evidence that McD or Beane would have selected Mahomes.

[Putin]

On 9/23/2018 at 7:28 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Asked this in the shout box and sparked and interesting convo and curious to what a larger group will think...

 

Mahomes is off to an insanely hot start and Allen just showed some serious potential today too.  Mahomes got to learn for a year and has the best stable of offensive weapons arguably in the NFL, so he has some advantages obviously in terms of where the two are at in development.  But, by trading down last year, we got White and eventually picked up Allen this year through a series of trades.  

 

So...today, would you rather have Mahomes or the combo of Allen and Tre?  Not speculating on what we could or couldn't have drafted...just focusing on these 3 guys since its all we know.  Mahomes or both Allen and Tre?

 

Call me a homer, but I still go Allen and Tre even though Mahomes has been as hot as it gets so far.  Not a knock on Mahomes, just that I think Allen is going to be great himself and Tre is already an Elite corner IMO.  So I will take the 2 great players over 1.  

I would love to see Allen in that KC offense I’m pretty sure Mahomes would not have the same number TD / yards here in Buffalo, 

to answer your question I would rather have Allen then Mahomes 

[Ned Kelly]

Allen & Tre

 

[BakersBills]

Dumb poll.

 

how many players did the bills trade to get ALLEN? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Whaley was a figurehead GM who was dismissed immediately after the draft.  If you think a lame duck GM was allowed to make major decisions shaping the future of the franchise, then I urge you to think again. 

 

I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding this basic fact.

 

Unless, of course, they're being intellectually dishonest.

 

[Yav]

20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

While I think Mahommes has made some pretty good throws.....take a look at most of their scores....he is simply putting it into a playmaker's hands and they are breaking tackles, making ppl miss, and outrunning ppl........they are running the ball down ppls throats and their pass catcher's are wide open......

 

I dont see Mahommes making throws to guys that are well covered.....

I'm not a fan of him at all, KC seems to always be one of the weakest teams in the playoffs to only loose in the first round, that team will always be that way. 

19 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

Lol!  Yeah, beating the Chargers and Steelers on the road to open the season is as creme puff as it gets in the NFL.

 

 

He wouldn’t have 13 red and 0 I think, but he would be playing at a high level.  Your line would look better.  Mahomes gets the ball out quick.  

 

Some other points.  

 

None of the games have been shootouts.  The Chiefs have built huge leads in all 3 and then kind of let off the gas.  The other team gets a bunch of garbage yards trying to come back.  The scores in all three are not indicative of how the games went.  They aren’t close.

 

some said Allen’s WR have dropped passes that would make his stats better.  Umm....that’s happened in KC as well.

 

some suggest that Mahomes has an advantage sitting for a year.  I’d contend KC wasted his rookie year having him sit. He’s looked as good as he his now from the git go.  

 

A few few of you clearly have SEEN him play while others have seen the box score.  Mahomes is a cyborg.  Reads the field in a hurry and gets the balm out quick.  Makes throws into tight spots, keeps eyes always downfield.  He’s special.  If you put Alex Smith back out there, he wouldn’t have 13 TD and 0 ints.  Smith had all but one of the same guys last year and couldn’t perform anywhere close to this.  

 

Mahomes is is going to break the NFL TD record this year.

 

im not telling you to be sad about it. Maybe later it could be that way but because you took Allen, you have that prospect and hope.  Mahomes isn’t the comparison to make right now.  A better measurement should be ALLEN vs Keenum.  ALLEN bs Rosen and maybe Allen Trubisky.  The first two are scenarios the Bills could have had this year.  The Trubisky scenario is more appropriate because that is going to be the Bills path.  Drafted a QB, then the following year, spend money on upgrades.  These all are better benchmarks.

 

 

Um, the Steelers tied the Browns with Taylor at QB and the Chargers aren't all that great, so yea not impressed.

[John from Riverside]

On 9/23/2018 at 7:48 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So if McDermott was a better coach like Andy Reid...........and if McDermott had kept Watkins (and perhaps Woods and Goodwin?) and drafted JuJu instead of Zay when he was serving as de facto GM .........then Allen would have thrown 10 TD's in his first two starts and had the Bills scoring close to 40 every week?

 

Maybe so.

 

But the old "I trust our coach and he shouldn't be questioned but our players would be better if we had THAT coach" argument never really made sense to me.

 

The Bills had Mahomes in hand.

 

He's REALLY good now.

 

Hopefully it turns into an interesting story line in a few AFC championship matchups between KC and Buffalo someday.

 

Next to Aaron Rodgers......Mahomes and Allen probably the most impressive physical skills of all the QB's in the NFL.

 

 

They had machines in hand and had they played him year one he would not have looked great

 

basically throwing to wide open targets who are not only dropping the ball they are doing something with it after they catch it

 

We have guys like zay and kB where you don’t even know if they are gonna come down with the ball

 

Ibam fairly confident put Mahoney here and he isn’t having that kind of production

 

 

[CookieG]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They had machines in hand and had they played him year one he would not have looked great

 

basically throwing to wide open targets who are not only dropping the ball they are doing something with it after they catch it

 

We have guys like zay and kB where you don’t even know if they are gonna come down with the ball

 

Ibam fairly confident put Mahoney here and he isn’t having that kind of production

 

 

 

Nah, I've gotten the pleasure to watch him each week and it all hasn't been just lobs to WR's. And some plays that looked easy really weren't.

 

For example...Game 1 58 yard TD to Hill.  At first glance, it looks like a quick pitch and catch where Hill does all of the work.

 

 

But when Mahomes explained it, it was a little more complicated than that.  He saw that the LB had bit on a play fake and that Hill had saw it also and adjusted his route. (I"m not even sure if Hill was the primary target presnap.). As an added bonus, the RG whiffed on his block (NEVER TRUST FRENCH LINEMEN!!).

 

So in a matter of around 1.5 seconds, he made a play fake,  2 post snap reads (the LB and Hill's route adjustment), threw the pass nearly sidearm, off balance, and hit Hill in the hands and in stride..

 

There's a reason the entire scouting staff and the entire coaching staff fell in love with him and that the term "special" has been a common adjective used by his coaches and his teammates.

 

That said, I really wanted him in 2017 and would do it in a second in a do over.

 

And I wasn't a big Allen fan this year.

 

But he's impressed me more than I thought I'd be impressed with him. If both work out as planned for their respective teams, if the Chiefs get the next Aaron Rodgers, but we end up with the next Big Ben...I'll live with it.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, CookieG said:

 

Nah, I've gotten the pleasure to watch him each week and it all hasn't been just lobs to WR's. And some plays that looked easy really weren't.

 

For example...Game 1 58 yard TD to Hill.  At first glance, it looks like a quick pitch and catch where Hill does all of the work.

 

 

But when Mahomes explained it, it was a little more complicated than that.  He saw that the LB had bit on a play fake and that Hill had saw it also and adjusted his route. (I"m not even sure if Hill was the primary target presnap.). As an added bonus, the RG whiffed on his block (NEVER TRUST FRENCH LINEMEN!!).

 

So in a matter of around 1.5 seconds, he made a play fake,  2 post snap reads (the LB and Hill's route adjustment), threw the pass nearly sidearm, off balance, and hit Hill in the hands and in stride..

 

There's a reason the entire scouting staff and the entire coaching staff fell in love with him and that the term "special" has been a common adjective used by his coaches and his teammates.

 

That said, I really wanted him in 2017 and would do it in a second in a do over.

 

And I wasn't a big Allen fan this year.

 

But he's impressed me more than I thought I'd be impressed with him. If both work out as planned for their respective teams, if the Chiefs get the next Aaron Rodgers, but we end up with the next Big Ben...I'll live with it.

 

 

I will totally take Mahommes explanation of the play as gospel....it has a much better ring then "I passed the ball to my playmaker and he made me look good"

 

That just doesnt quite have the same ring to it

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I will totally take Mahommes explanation of the play as gospel....it has a much better ring then "I passed the ball to my playmaker and he made me look good"

 

That just doesnt quite have the same ring to it

Hi John, I have questions.

 

Why do you hate Mahomes?

 

If Allen has a really great team around him and had passed for 13 TD’s in 3 games, would you say he’s overrated?

 

Do you think that Chiefs fans are bummed they didn’t take Allen instead of Mahomes right now?

[John from Riverside]

30 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Hi John, I have questions.

 

Why do you hate Mahomes?

 

If Allen has a really great team around him and had passed for 13 TD’s in 3 games, would you say he’s overrated?

 

Do you think that Chiefs fans are bummed they didn’t take Allen instead of Mahomes right now?

First of all....I dont hate Mahommes at all.   The original question was would you rather have Mahommes or Josh Allen and Tre.  Mahommes is turning out to be a good qb and is on a great streak right now......we have seen this before.

 

I have explained my reasons why....Mahommes is totally set up for success while Josh Allen not so much.   You reverse these QB's and I would lay 500 that Mahommes struggles.

 

He literally has a stacked offense

Edited September 25, 2018 by John from Riverside

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

First of all....I dont hate Mahommes at all.   The original question was would you rather have Mahommes or Josh Allen and Tre.  Mahommes is turning out to be a good qb and is on a great streak right now......we have seen this before.

 

I have explained my reasons why....Mahommes is totally set up for success while Josh Allen not so much.   You reverse these QB's and I would lay 500 that Mahommes struggles.

 

He literally has a stacked offense

Okay, can you answer these two?

40 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

If Allen has a really great team around him and had passed for 13 TD’s in 3 games, would you say he’s overrated?

 

Do you think that Chiefs fans are bummed they didn’t take Allen instead of Mahomes right now?

 

[CookieG]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I will totally take Mahommes explanation of the play as gospel....it has a much better ring then "I passed the ball to my playmaker and he made me look good"

 

That just doesnt quite have the same ring to it

 

Lol.,  he made the explanation to fool some guy in Riverside who doesn't like him and never will.

 

So he's not only a mediocre QB who only completes passes to wide open receivers, he's a dishonest, mediocre QB who only completes passes to wide open receivers.

 

Ty for exposing him as a fraud.

[Nihilarian]

weird hair, weird voice and Allen in bigger, stronger and faster. 4.8 40 vs 4.75 40. stronger arm, quicker release.

 

Over the long haul I think Allen will be better provided Beane gives him better protection and weapons. 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Okay, can you answer these two?

 

I’m not sure that I ever called mahommes overrated

 

i will say it again he got to sit a year and has a stacked team around him

 

he still has to go out and make the throws and he is doing that this was in context of whether I would rather have him or josh Allen and tre

[Estro]

I'd rather have Mahomes and the two second rounders we used to trade up to get Allen

[Teddy KGB]

10 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

You reverse these QB's and I would lay 500 that Mahommes struggles.

 

 

So 10 td’s instead of 13 ? 

 

You might wanna lower that bet to a dollar. 

 

Mahomes is MVP of the league right now, you’re trying too hard.  

[Boatdrinks]

Obviously it’s Mahomes right now. What he’s done we actually haven’t seen before. He set an NFL record. Even the choice of Mahomes vs T White and Allen isn’t exactly correct. Can it eventually be different ? Yes, however the question is about right now. It’s Mahomes ( who the Bills could have had for exactly one draft pick) and it’s not really close. 

[TheElectricCompany]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Mahommes is turning out to be a good qb and is on a great streak right now......we have seen this before.

 

No...we haven't. That's pretty much the point. 

 

[Bangarang]

11 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

weird hair, weird voice and Allen in bigger, stronger and faster. 4.8 40 vs 4.75 40. stronger arm, quicker release.

 

Over the long haul I think Allen will be better provided Beane gives him better protection and weapons. 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol comparing QB 40 times as if it matters.

[Nihilarian]

21 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Lol comparing QB 40 times as if it matters.

The point is that although Allen is the bigger man he is also more athletic. Yes, it does matter as he will be able to escape the rush better and elude defensive players when he scrambles.

 

Tony Romo stated he couldn't believe how quick the guy was when got away from Vikings linebacker Anthony Barr as he headed for that corner of the end zone. 

 

While its difficult for any Bills fan to want Allen over what Mahomes has done so far this year. I love it that Allen got the Bills defense fired up by that rushing TD and hurdling Barr the way he did as the entire Bills bench went nuts over that. The Bills defensive players all saw that rookie QB willing to give his all to make a first down and they all wanted to make plays after that. Some stated that they couldn't wait to get on the field to hit someone. 

 

While Mahomes looks very special so far we all can see he is in a very potent offense with some major weapons around him. Allen managed to do it mostly on his own with a not so good offense around him. Gotta love that passion and desire to make a first down, win! 

[HappyDays]

14 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Do you think that Chiefs fans are bummed they didn’t take Allen instead of Mahomes right now?

 

No but they are bummed about the defense. It's going to catch up with them eventually. They traded Peters and spent all their money on offense. That's why the question isn't as easy as you're trying to make it. White is already an elite shutdown corner. If Allen turns out to be a consistent top 10 QB and Mahomes turns out to be a consistent top 5 QB there is still an argument that Allen and White is the right pick. And right now it's too early to know where either QB will end up so it's a dumb question.

[TheElectricCompany]

8 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The point is that although Allen is the bigger man he is also more athletic. Yes, it does matter as he will be able to escape the rush better and elude defensive players when he scrambles.! 

 

Allen is bigger, but more athletic? That's just fluff. 

Mahomes is very mobile, both in the pocket and on bootlegs. 

Neither guy is a power runner like Cam, nor are  they as agile and quick as Wilson, but I think they both bring plenty to the table. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The point is that although Allen is the bigger man he is also more athletic. Yes, it does matter as he will be able to escape the rush better and elude defensive players when he scrambles.

 

It doesn’t matter. Both QBs are athletic freaks. Comparing a 4.75 and 4.8 40 time for QBs is essentially a dick measuring contest for insecure fans who need to convince the world their guy is better. Right now, Mahomes looks unreal and I’m sure a lot of that has to do with Reid, the system and who he has around him on the field.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Can't believe people are speaking down on Mahomes. Fine if you want Allen and Tre. Perfectly fine with it but LOL at trying to speak negative about Mahomes. 

 

 

[Jerome007]

On 9/23/2018 at 8:49 PM, billsfan11 said:

Allen and Tre. 

 

Got a man crush on Allen today.

 

His leadership, swag, poise, gun of a arm, mobility.

 

 

I think he is going to be really special one day .

 

And on top of it, Tre white is just incredible. He has all pro written all over him

This

 

And I'm not big on the useless "What ifs". Allen and Tre are here, Mahomes is with the Chiefs, and it ain't changing this year or the next! 

[Nihilarian]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

It doesn’t matter. Both QBs are athletic freaks. Comparing a 4.75 and 4.8 40 time for QBs is essentially a dick measuring contest for insecure fans who need to convince the world their guy is better. Right now, Mahomes looks unreal and I’m sure a lot of that has to do with Reid, the system and who he has around him on the field.

I made my point and it has nothing to do with insecurity or dick measuring... or perhaps it does in your mind. 

 

Allen is two inches taller and about ten pounds heavier and yet quicker and all I did was point out factually that Allen ran a faster 40 time. 

[Chuck Wagon]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m not sure that I ever called mahommes overrated

 

i will say it again he got to sit a year and has a stacked team around him

 

he still has to go out and make the throws and he is doing that this was in context of whether I would rather have him or josh Allen and tre

 

 

With all due respect, it doesn't seem like you've watched the Chiefs or Mahomes at all.  The guy is throwing lasers all over the field, it's not just a stacked team, his arm has defenses scrambling and blowing coverages.  Watch the TD scramble / throw against KC, he might be the only QB in the NFL who can make that play.  The offense around him certainly helps, but to pretend the guy is just throwing screen passes to Tyreke Hill and watching him do all the work scream you are completely ignorant on the subject.

[wppete]

Josh Allen and Tre White all day. Not even close!

 

Mahomes is a very lucky man he walked into the perfect situation with Andy Reed and that Offense.  Stacked WRs, one of the best TEs in the league, star running back and solid Oline. And Off course Andy reed play calling. Cmon.

[BringBackOrton]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No but they are bummed about the defense. It's going to catch up with them eventually. They traded Peters and spent all their money on offense. That's why the question isn't as easy as you're trying to make it. White is already an elite shutdown corner. If Allen turns out to be a consistent top 10 QB and Mahomes turns out to be a consistent top 5 QB there is still an argument that Allen and White is the right pick. And right now it's too early to know where either QB will end up so it's a dumb question.

They didn’t have to trade Peters. So really they could have had Mahomes and Peters vs Allen White.

 

I’m not sure Chiefs fans are even talking about Josh Allen on their boards right now.

[Bangarang]

22 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I made my point and it has nothing to do with insecurity or dick measuring... or perhaps it does in your mind. 

 

Allen is two inches taller and about ten pounds heavier and yet quicker and all I did was point out factually that Allen ran a faster 40 time. 

 

Im not disputing who ran the faster 40 time. I’m telling you it’s meaningless. If you want to use it as some sort of justification as to why you’d take one over the other then go right ahead. It’s silly but that’s your choice.

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

Im not disputing who ran the faster 40 time. I’m telling you it’s meaningless. If you want to use it as some sort of justification as to why you’d take one over the other then go right ahead. It’s silly but that’s your choice.

Jeez, all I did was make the point that despite being the bigger man Allen is quicker, faster and you are turning it into some sort of mental escapade. 

 

 

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

Jeez, all I did was make the point that despite being the bigger man Allen is quicker, faster and you are turning it into some sort of mental escapade. 

 

 

 

This is a fight worth fighting for. I will die on this hill. It means everything to me.

[Nihilarian]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

This is a fight worth fighting for. I will die on this hill. It means everything to me.

Seriously? You have issues. I can only imagine it has to do with size and insecurity. 

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Seriously? You have issues. I can only imagine it has to do with size and insecurity. 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

With all due respect, it doesn't seem like you've watched the Chiefs or Mahomes at all.  The guy is throwing lasers all over the field, it's not just a stacked team, his arm has defenses scrambling and blowing coverages.  Watch the TD scramble / throw against KC, he might be the only QB in the NFL who can make that play.  The offense around him certainly helps, but to pretend the guy is just throwing screen passes to Tyreke Hill and watching him do all the work scream you are completely ignorant on the subject.

Dont you just love these type of posts.....

 

Im not insulting you.....but I am insulting you

 

Go pound sand.....how about that.

[IgotBILLStopay]

Assuming we trade #21 instead of #22 to obtain the other Tre, it should be Allen + Tre + Cordy Glenn's contract 2019 onward vs. Mahomes, two 2018 second rounders (#53 and #56) and Cordy Glenn.

 

It will be very close but even so, I'd take Allen + Tre + 2019 cap space I think.

 

The choice as set up is a no-brainer, as of now. 

[Chuck Wagon]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Dont you just love these type of posts.....

 

Im not insulting you.....but I am insulting you

 

Go pound sand.....how about that.

 

 

I'm not insulting you.  You just have no idea what you are talking about.