The Silver Lining : Josh Allen is very good.

[VW82]

9 minutes ago, transient said:

 

Good thing Philadelphia didn’t throw a raw prospect who didn’t go to a major program to the wolves. One could only imagine how badly that could have turned out. 

 

Wentz was the number two overall pick, universally considered the most ready to play (between him and Goff), and went to a team stacked with SB level talent. Completely different situations.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

Cam Newton was considered a reach by almost every Buffalo Bill fan , whom as a group were thrilled to get Marcell Dareus instead. 

How good is Cam Newton? He makes flashy plays and costs his team a lot of games. He has 3 winning Seasons out of 7. He's the type of QB that's good enough to keep on your team for 15 years while you never win a damn thing, but he's too good to dump.

I'm glad he's not here.

[McNubbins]

Wait, you're telling me the Peterman CAN'T?!  Everything I've been told is a lie.

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I am also old (see the photo I chose of where I sat as a kid), but I still want what’s best in the long run. I don’t want my son to hurry up and get married to the first girl he can hook so I can see more grandkids. I want him to take his time, and do it right. I’ll see it from this world, or the next. Do it right. 

I actually care about what happens to my children and grandchildren after I am gone.  I don't care two plug nickels for what the Bills do after I am gone.  

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

How good is Cam Newton? He makes flashy plays and costs his team a lot of games. He has 3 winning Seasons out of 7. He's the type of QB that's good enough to keep on your team for 15 years while you never win a damn thing, but he's too good to dump.

I'm glad he's not here.

What can I say, you are a fool. 

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said Allen is garbage because he went to Wyoming or for any other reason.  The offense he quarterbacked last season sucked out loud.  Asking Allen to make the jump from one of the worst college offenses in the nation to an NFL offense is way beyond realistic.  It's a terrible mistake by Beane and McD to have only Peterman and Allen as the only QBs on the roster.  Allen is totally unprepared for what he's being asked to do.  He might have a chance to be successful if the offense was otherwise stellar, but there are issues everywhere (except RB).  The Bills spent so much capital to get him and now he's not going to get a chance to develop before he's ruined.  This is on Beane and McD, not Allen.   

 

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. I have a sister-in-law who speaks her opinion as though it’s fact, and it’s annoying as hell. Could that be true? Sure. Could it be totally inaccurate? Absolutely. 

[Klaista2k]

Even if he is good I'm afraid that he'll be ruined in Buffalo.

 

He has a terrible offensive line and no good receivers so how's he supposed to be good?

[VW82]

5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Cam Newton was considered a reach by almost every Buffalo Bill fan , whom as a group were thrilled to get Marcell Dareus instead. 

 

I do believe Cam won the starting job out of camp, no? Besides, every franchise in the league would have taken Cam number one. I'm not so concerned about Bills fans ability to judge college talent (if that part is even true).

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said Allen is garbage because he went to Wyoming or for any other reason.  The offense he quarterbacked last season sucked out loud.  Asking Allen to make the jump from one of the worst college offenses in the nation to an NFL offense is way beyond realistic.  It's a terrible mistake by Beane and McD to have only Peterman and Allen as the only QBs on the roster.  Allen is totally unprepared for what he's being asked to do.  He might have a chance to be successful if the offense was otherwise stellar, but there are issues everywhere (except RB).  The Bills spent so much capital to get him and now he's not going to get a chance to develop before he's ruined.  This is on Beane and McD, not Allen.   

Sorry I'm merging your very similar point with BullBuchanons. I'd say if the Bills weren't prepared for him to play they wouldn't of put themselves into a situation where he's right behind Nathan Peterman with no one else.

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

 

And Mahomes threw for 11,000 yards and 93 TDs to Allen's 5,000 and 44. He also had every physical tool that Allen did, except he knew how to execute. 10x the prospect. He just needed to learn a pro system.

What Mahomes playing for two and half years had more yards and touchdowns playing at TexasTech than Allen did playing for two at Wyoming with a very run heavy offense...I'm shocked. Seriously your points make no sense we shouldn't start Allen who you fear will be bad but hasn't proven it in the NFL yet and instead keep starting Peterman who we know to be bad already.

[KD in CA]

He looked pretty good to me considering he was playing on a team down 40-0.

 

Put him on KC or San Fran and I bet he looks a lot like Mahomes or Garoppolo did today.

[HappyDays]

I thought he played very well especially considering the circumstances. It's hard to tell exactly because the Ravens defense took their foot off the gas. But it was promising enough that you have to start him the rest of the year.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I actually care about what happens to my children and grandchildren after I am gone.  I don't care two plug nickels for what the Bills do after I am gone.  

 

 

So you are willing to be wise in some cases, but foolish in others? If your playing roulette and get sleepy, do you put all your chips on black? Maybe your lineage or your fellow Bills fans would like to be happy the season after we croak. I’m in it for the long haul, maybe even after MY haul is over. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Augie

[PlayoffsPlease]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I do believe Cam won the starting job out of camp, no? Besides, every franchise in the league would have taken Cam number one. I'm not so concerned about Bills fans ability to judge college talent (if that part is even true).

The quoted scenario was asinine.  

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I do believe Cam won the starting job out of camp, no? Besides, every franchise in the league would have taken Cam number one. I'm not so concerned about Bills fans ability to judge college talent (if that part is even true).

Ok, Deshaun Watson last year.   Practically an exact parallel.  Didn't win the job out of camp, took over in the second half of game 1. 

[VW82]

1 minute ago, KD in CA said:

He looked pretty good to me considering he was playing on a team down 40-0.

 

Put him on KC or San Fran and I bet he looks a lot like Mahomes or Garoppolo did today.

 

If anything the fact it was 40-0 and ravens had their second stringers in and had clearly taken their foot off the peddle would suggest we should have seen Allen do better. But he's not ready to play, so I'm not holding that against him. 

 

Mahomes is a second year player who played in the Big 12 in a pro offense, and had a year to learn under Alex Smith and Andy Reid. Jimmy G is fifth year player who learned under Bill Belichik and Tom F'ing Brady, and then Kyle Shanahan. I'm sorry but there's no way Allen would have done as well as them. 

 

The expectations on this kid are completely unreasonable. I feel bad for him, especially if fans get their wish and he starts next week. It'll be ugly. 

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. I have a sister-in-law who speaks her opinion as though it’s fact, and it’s annoying as hell. Could that be true? Sure. Could it be totally inaccurate? Absolutely. 

 

Not a lot of people have trouble understanding the difference between a stated opinion and a stated fact. Thangs especially true when someone is making a prediction - even an obvious one. 

9 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Sorry I'm merging your very similar point with BullBuchanons. I'd say if the Bills weren't prepared for him to play they wouldn't of put themselves into a situation where he's right behind Nathan Peterman with no one else.

 

 

Why?  Because they are infallible?  Do you seriously believe that they could not have made a mistake?

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Not a lot of people have trouble understanding the difference between a stated opinion and a stated fact. Thangs especially true when someone is making a prediction - even an obvious one. 

 

Why?  Because they are infallible?  Do you seriously believe that they could not have made a mistake?

Of course they could be wrong but from my perspective they are far more likely to know than just about anyone else.

[VW82]

11 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The quoted scenario was asinine.  

Ok, Deshaun Watson last year.   Practically an exact parallel.  Didn't win the job out of camp, took over in the second half of game 1. 

 

Asinine or not, it's what posters on here are asking of Allen.

 

I'll give you Deshaun Watson, but it would seem QBs with elite athleticism would have a much better chance at early success due to their ability to take off and run. Allen can do some of that but it's not exactly the same thing. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by VW82

[Chimp]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Although not terrible, the deep throw to Foster at the end wasn't great. He under threw it and a better throw Foster walks in, if he catches it lol. But yea, he didn't make any bad throws that seemed like they would be picked.

Am I thinking of a different throw?  His last toss of the game was overthrown by 5 yards.  I might have missed a receiver in the top of the screen?

[Kelly the Dog]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I thought he played very well especially considering the circumstances. It's hard to tell exactly because the Ravens defense took their foot off the gas. But it was promising enough that you have to start him the rest of the year.

In mop up performances you cannot really say with any certainty whatsoever that a QB, any QB, would have been able to do that earlier in the game. It's possible he could but also just as likely or more that he couldn't. It's an unknowable no matter how much you know or don't about football. 

 

What you CAN see however are skills. Josh showed a lot of skills in his less than a half that Nate cannot do and it wasn't just arm strength. And yeah, perhaps he wouldn't have done that same thing against starters but arm strength, accuracy, poise or lack thereof in pocket, awareness, ability to throw on run, looking to second and third options are all skills that can be known in mop up duty whether that exact same performance would have happened against starters or when the game was still close or not. 

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Of course they could be wrong but from my perspective they are far more likely to know than just about anyone else.

 

I'm a "show me" kind of guy.  I'm thinking of the Ryan years and how i heard similar things.  How ridiculous those votes of confidence seemed at the time as well as in retrospect.

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Not a lot of people have trouble understanding the difference between a stated opinion and a stated fact. Thangs especially true when someone is making a prediction - even an obvious one. 

 

 

Here’s an idea, if it’s an opinion, maybe you should state it as an opinion rather than a fact. “I fear he may not”, or “it concerns me that”. 

You say he won’t do it, and you open yourself up.

 

We’re all Bills fans, just trying to communicate clearly. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I'm a "show me" kind of guy.  I'm thinking of the Ryan years and how i heard similar things.  How ridiculous those votes of confidence seemed at the time as well as in retrospect.

Not really a way for him to show you if he doesn't start.

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Here’s an idea, if it’s an opinion, maybe you should state it as an opinion rather than a fact. “I fear he may not”, or “it concerns me that”. 

You say he won’t do it, and you open yourself up.

 

We’re all Bills fans, just trying to communicate clearly. 

 

Sorry. I'm not going to dumb things down. 

[The Red King]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Sorry. I'm not going to dumb things down. 

 

Use of proper English is dumbing down?  ...now I've heard it all.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Sorry. I'm not going to dumb things down. 

 

Funny, I thought we were trying to bring things up from there. Fact is fact, opinion is opinion. I’m sure I miscommunicate at times, so I’m done. 

 

Peace, we’re on the same team. Go Bills! 

 

 

 

(That was sadly pathetic after what we saw today, but as always, I’m 100% in.) 

[Chimp]

29 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I do believe Cam won the starting job out of camp, no? Besides, every franchise in the league would have taken Cam number one. I'm not so concerned about Bills fans ability to judge college talent (if that part is even true).

But you are adamant that Allen is going to be a failure right?  So, are you a hypocrite, or just not a Bills fan?

Edited September 9, 2018 by Chimp

[atlbillsfan1975]

He is the quarterback we have been waiting for. The only good thing about starting Peterman is that none of us will ask for him to play ever again no matter how bad Allen plays.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I thought he played very well especially considering the circumstances. It's hard to tell exactly because the Ravens defense took their foot off the gas. But it was promising enough that you have to start him the rest of the year.

You were all over the gameday thread saying dont put him in until after week 4. Thank you for being man enough to change your position.??

[The_Dude]

How does anybody know if Josh Allen is good enough? I’ve seen encouraging things but let’s hold the horses a bit. 

[Albwan]

...the bad news is there is no real nfl level talent around him....

[Augie]

1 minute ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

You were all over the gameday thread saying dont put him in until after week 4. Thank you for being man enough to change your position.??

 

I agreed he needed a few weeks to sit and watch, but I never anticipated the throttling that took place today. That was a good time to get him some exposure. Now, if we could block, separate and catch....that would be even better! 

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

But yea, he didn't make any bad throws that seemed like they would be picked.

That's a good start. I'll take it.  You?

[Jerome007]

You downers were proven right big time for this game, but to say right now, September 9th 2018, that Allen is a bust? Get out and find another team. We have no idea yet and to a lot of us he shows many very good signs. Of course he is raw, will read defense slowly, etc. But there is no choice now, time to learn by doing! That the OL sucks was bad enough. Now it's clear WRs do too, and the OC wasn't very imaginative was he?

 

Why did the Bills keep 4 TE if they're not involved more than this?

Edited September 9, 2018 by Jerome007

[Tatonka68]

Didnt practice, off the bench, playing with a trash line with WRs that cannot hold onto the ball in the rain, in his first NFL start I thought he played ok. Some bad decisions, but no head scratching throws. Had at least three drops including a TD pass.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Tatonka68

[VW82]

14 minutes ago, Chimp said:

But you are adamant that Allen is going to be a failure right?  So, are you a hypocrite, or just not a Bills fan?

 

I'd say I'm pessimistic he'll work out, yes. That said, I am a Bills fan first - been one since wide right and I'll be one til the day I die - and I'd much rather be wrong about Allen and have him become a legit franchise guy. 

 

I'm mostly surprised by the reaction on here to the opinion that we should be patient with our raw QB, instead of throwing him in the deep end right away and without help to see if he sinks or swims. That just seems crazy to me. His development should be more important than fans impatience.

Edited September 9, 2018 by VW82

[Chimp]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

 

I'd say I'm pessimistic he'll work out, yes. That said, I am a Bills fan first - been one since wide right and I'll be one til the day I die - and I'd much rather be wrong about Allen and have him become a legit franchise guy. 

 

I'm mostly surprised by the reaction on here to the opinion that we should be patient with our raw QB, instead of throwing him in the deep end right away and without help to see if he sinks or swims. That just seems crazy to me. 

I hear you there.  I'm hoping they can do something via FA this week to give the kid something, he's in the worst possible situation currently.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I agreed he needed a few weeks to sit and watch, but I never anticipated the throttling that took place today. That was a good time to get him some exposure. Now, if we could block, separate and catch....that would be even better! 

NOBODY did bro. 

 

I just for the life of me cannot believe how the ENTIRE national press corp was SOO correct on the outcome of this game. I have NEVER seen anything like it. It was almost prophetic.

 

With that being said, to the national sports media, congrats on your correct assesment. I will now officially go eat my crow like a grown ass man!

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

You were all over the gameday thread saying dont put him in until after week 4. Thank you for being man enough to change your position.??

 

The big thing that changed for me is my opinion of the pass blocking. It looked much better. Not great but serviceable which is mostly all you get in the NFL these days. Allen looked quite good. So I'm at the point where I think he might as well get some experience. We'll still end up with a high draft pick.

[PlayoffsPlease]

29 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Asinine or not, it's what posters on here are asking of Allen.

 

I'll give you Deshaun Watson, but it would seem QBs with elite athleticism would have a much better chance at early success due to their ability to take off and run. Allen can do some of that but it's not exactly the same thing. 

You mentally deranged point is the there are no two identical human beings placed in identical situations to play QB in the NFL.  I will accept that point.  

[Buffalo Ballin]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They should just start him and let him take his lumps.....Peterman is NOT a better QB and isnt going to turn chicken doo doo into chicken dinner with this OL.......Allen will take a ton of sacks and make a ton of plays......get him the experience he needs lets get the developmental year rolling

 

No. Not yet. Allen didn't beat Nate Peterman during training camp AND pre-season. That says A LOT. I would keep starting Nate until week 4 then see what's up.

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

In mop up performances you cannot really say with any certainty whatsoever that a QB, any QB, would have been able to do that earlier in the game. It's possible he could but also just as likely or more that he couldn't. It's an unknowable no matter how much you know or don't about football. 

 

What you CAN see however are skills. Josh showed a lot of skills in his less than a half that Nate cannot do and it wasn't just arm strength. And yeah, perhaps he wouldn't have done that same thing against starters but arm strength, accuracy, poise or lack thereof in pocket, awareness, ability to throw on run, looking to second and third options are all skills that can be known in mop up duty whether that exact same performance would have happened against starters or when the game was still close or not. 

 

It's the same as in preseason. You can't pay attention to the stat line but you can watch the individual performances and make judgments. He played a glorified preseason game against 1st stringers and he played very well.