Aaron Donald. Are the Rams thinking of trading him?

[Tipster19]

I was thinking about this yesterday and was going to post something but got too lazy. Now I ran across this article just now and it starts confirming a bit what I was thinking. I don’t believe the Rams were ever planning on locking up Donald hence the signing of Suh. I believe that they signed Suh as insurance, bracing themselves for another hold out by Donald. Furthermore I really believe that they are going to trade him before it’s all said and done. 

 

Now I would love for the Bills to trade for him but that will never happen, especially after they just got out from under Dareus’ monster contract. I wonder that if indeed that the Rams trade him what team will step up for him. Green Bay? Dallas? Input will be appreciated.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/02/rams-coo-aaron-donalds-side-sees-his-value-one-way-we-see-it-differently/

Edited August 9, 2018 by Tipster19
Vague title

[RocCityRoller]

I believe the Bills have a better chance at Mack than this scenario for all the reasons I've posted elsewhere. Darnold is going nowhere, but Mack is in play.

[Fadingpain]

36 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

I believe the Bills have a better chance at Mack than this scenario for all the reasons I've posted elsewhere. Darnold is going nowhere, but Mack is in play.

I agree Darnold is going nowhere, but what about Aaron Donald?

 

 

[Virgil]

If it wasn’t for the franchise tag, we would have the money to go after Donald and Mack next year.  

 

Brady might reconsider his 4-5 more years idea 

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, Virgil said:

If it wasn’t for the franchise tag, we would have the money to go after Donald and Mack next year.  

 

Brady might reconsider his 4-5 more years idea 

 

I just don’t understand how the franchise tag is acceptable to anyone??

 

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Tipster19 said:

I was thinking about this yesterday and was going to post something but got too lazy. Now I ran across this article just now and it starts confirming a bit what I was thinking. I don’t believe the Rams were ever planning on locking up Donald hence the signing of Suh. I believe that they signed Suh as insurance, bracing themselves for another hold out by Donald. Furthermore I really believe that they are going to trade him before it’s all said and done. 

 

Now I would love for the Bills to trade for him but that will never happen, especially after they just got out from under Dareus’ monster contract. I wonder that if indeed that the Rams trade him what team will step up for him. Green Bay? Dallas? Input will be appreciated.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/02/rams-coo-aaron-donalds-side-sees-his-value-one-way-we-see-it-differently/

Donald dominates games consistently in the trenches.  He's what Marcel could/should be.  That dude will be worth all the money he gets.  

Edited August 3, 2018 by purple haze

[BruceVilanch]

There is rarely a case where I understand why a guy is holding out. Donald deserves every dime he gets, dude is a game changer and one of the best defensive players of the past 10-15 years.

[Richard Noggin]

It seems unlikely the Rams intend to trade Donald. There is NO indication that's on the horizon. Signing Suh is a complimentary, not supplementary, move. Less Snead has compiled a win-now roster, and trading Donald works counter to that momentum, AND jettisons the MOST disruptive interior DL talent in the NFL. Doesn't add up.

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Fadingpain said:

I agree Darnold is going nowhere, but what about Aaron Donald?

 

 

 

so you are one of those types that likes to argue typos, instead of points, got it.

 

let's talk facts.

 

The Bills have a better chance of landing Mack than Donald. By every measure. Both are game changing.

 

Edited PS - on record, would rather have Mack.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[Thurman#1]

Not sure you're right about Mack vs. Donald, but you could be.

 

I see the odds on the Bills getting either one as being infinitesimal. Just an opinion, obviously. They could use either guy but the new F.O. has said they don't believe in building through high-ticket FAs, and their history backs that up.

 

We'll see, I guess.

[Matt_In_NH]

I think they plan to sign donald.  They need to sell psls and keeping their best player is importNt.  

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I was thinking about this yesterday and was going to post something but got too lazy. Now I ran across this article just now and it starts confirming a bit what I was thinking. I don’t believe the Rams were ever planning on locking up Donald hence the signing of Suh. I believe that they signed Suh as insurance, bracing themselves for another hold out by Donald. Furthermore I really believe that they are going to trade him before it’s all said and done. 

 

Now I would love for the Bills to trade for him but that will never happen, especially after they just got out from under Dareus’ monster contract. I wonder that if indeed that the Rams trade him what team will step up for him. Green Bay? Dallas? Input will be appreciated.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/02/rams-coo-aaron-donalds-side-sees-his-value-one-way-we-see-it-differently/

 

Donald is the ACTUAL best defensive player in the NFL.  I would take him 100 days out of 100.  

[machine gun kelly]

Both people mentioned will stay where they are in LA and Oakland.  The tag ensures that point and you can tag each of them when contract is up for two years, so I believe both have a year left on contract.  That is three years.

 

As far as holdouts, it’s the only leverage a player has, but if a Mexican standoff, it’s a matter of who blinks first.  There is speculation the Raiders are cash strapped so could be part of why Mack hasn’t received a new contract.  From what I understand, when you have so much guaranteed, you have to have enough capital to pay.  This is one of the reasons it’s great having the Pegulas own our team as they are filthy rich, and happy for them.

[thenorthremembers]

Aaron Donald is a great player.  Can you name me one defensive tackle who got a huge contract, continued to do well, and whose play vaulted their team to contention?

 

There may be one, but the players who come to mind for me are Haynesworth, Dareus and Suh.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Aaron Donald is a great player.  Can you name me one defensive tackle who got a huge contract, continued to do well, and whose play vaulted their team to contention?

 

There may be one, but the players who come to mind for me are Haynesworth, Dareus and Suh.

 

Sapp. The money he signed for doesn't sound huge now but it was then.  

[thenorthremembers]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sapp. The money he signed for doesn't sound huge now but it was then.  

 

Works for me.

 

I just wonder if the Rams look at the value of the position they are paying and hesitate to pay a Defensive Tackle 20 million dollars a year.  Again, Donald is a great players but the team is 28-36 since he has been in the league.  They were great last year, but it was because they were outscoring everyone.

 

Personally if I am paying guys that much money they better score touchdowns.  Otherwise, they better play QB, LT or be my main Pass Rusher.  Rams need to decide whether Donald in Phillips system is their #1 pass rusher from the DT spot.

[8-8 Forever?]

boy, the offseason is slow

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Works for me.

 

I just wonder if the Rams look at the value of the position they are paying and hesitate to pay a Defensive Tackle 20 million dollars a year.  Again, Donald is a great players but the team is 28-36 since he has been in the league.  They were great last year, but it was because they were outscoring everyone.

 

Personally if I am paying guys that much money they better score touchdowns.  Otherwise, they better play QB, LT or be my main Pass Rusher.  Rams need to decide whether Donald in Phillips system is their #1 pass rusher from the DT spot.

 

I think that is exactly the question whenever you pay a DT big money.  To me having Donald give you 10 sacks a year from the interior (and in the increasingly "ball out quick" NFL interior pressure that can get there fast is increasingly valuable) means that you don't pay an edge rusher big bucks - especially when the time comes where you need to pay Goff.  Their likely starting pass rushing OLBs this year are a 4th year college free agent on a 1 year RFA tender and a 2017 4th round pick.  Their money is tied up in Donald, Suh, Brockers and even Westbrook on the D Line.  

[nucci]

25 minutes ago, 8-8 Forever? said:

boy, the offseason is slow

That's why it's the off-season....kinda like when some say the calm before the storm...

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Aaron Donald is a great player.  Can you name me one defensive tackle who got a huge contract, continued to do well, and whose play vaulted their team to contention?

 

There may be one, but the players who come to mind for me are Haynesworth, Dareus and Suh.

 

There's a lot with just the last few years.

Gerald McCoy, Fletcher Cox, Geno Atkins and Suh.  Suh is just a headache but still performs on the field.  

[Cornette's Commentary]

7 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I was thinking about this yesterday and was going to post something but got too lazy. Now I ran across this article just now and it starts confirming a bit what I was thinking. I don’t believe the Rams were ever planning on locking up Donald hence the signing of Suh. I believe that they signed Suh as insurance, bracing themselves for another hold out by Donald. Furthermore I really believe that they are going to trade him before it’s all said and done. 

 

Now I would love for the Bills to trade for him but that will never happen, especially after they just got out from under Dareus’ monster contract. I wonder that if indeed that the Rams trade him what team will step up for him. Green Bay? Dallas? Input will be appreciated.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/02/rams-coo-aaron-donalds-side-sees-his-value-one-way-we-see-it-differently/

Stop.  Can we please just STOP with this crap?

[thenorthremembers]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

There's a lot with just the last few years.

Gerald McCoy, Fletcher Cox, Geno Atkins and Suh.  Suh is just a headache but still performs on the field.  

 

Correct, but outside of maybe Fletcher Cox with the Eagles, how many of those teams have been successful?  My point is Defensive Tackles are a small piece of a broader puzzle, and I am not sure it's smart to give them big contracts

[Virgil]

6 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

I just don’t understand how the franchise tag is acceptable to anyone??

 

 

I think the franchise tag has become less and less relevant as the salary cap has expanded like it has. 

 

The transition tag makes sense to me still, but that’s about it 

[Wayne Arnold]

7 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

I believe the Bills have a better chance at Mack than this scenario for all the reasons I've posted elsewhere. Donald is going nowhere, but Mack is in play.

 

Let's sign them both. Kyle can then enjoy a well-deserved retirement with his family and watch the Bills win the next three Super Bowls.

[CommonCents]

I said it a few weeks ago, if Snead let’s Donald walk I will applaud him. That team has too much talent and if they pay Donald that’s going to shorten their window considerably. He is a great player no doubt about it but his position has little impact. 

 

The Eagles let up 500 yards passing in the SB with a top 3 DT in Cox. Paying Donald would be a mistake with all the contracts on the horizon for Snead. 

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Correct, but outside of maybe Fletcher Cox with the Eagles, how many of those teams have been successful?  My point is Defensive Tackles are a small piece of a broader puzzle, and I am not sure it's smart to give them big contracts

 

Are you only measuring success by Super Bowl wins?  I ask because Atkins and Suh have been on playoff teams.

Anyone who can disrupt the QB and blow up a play is not a small piece.  There's reasons why these guys are making very good salaries with more than 1 above $100,000,000 contracts.

 

Warren Sapp had a big contract in his day and was a huge piece to the Bucs defense.

Joe Greene the same.  

 

DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green and Mike Evans are top paid WR that haven't won anything....are they not worth it?  Antonio Brown has won a Super Bowl either.

Darrell Revis never won with the Jets...was he worth the money?  Patrick Petersen?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Royale with Cheese

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Are you only measuring success by Super Bowl wins?  I ask because Atkins and Suh have been on playoff teams.

Anyone who can disrupt the QB and blow up a play is not a small piece.  There's reasons why these guys are making very good salaries with more than 1 above $100,000,000 contracts.

 

Warren Sapp had a big contract in his day and was a huge piece to the Bucs defense.

Joe Greene the same.  

 

DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green and Mike Evans are top paid WR that haven't won anything....are they not worth it?  Antonio Brown has won a Super Bowl either.

Darrell Revis never won with the Jets...was he worth the money?  Patrick Petersen?

Each situation is different, the Bucs had Brad Johnson as QB and the most he made in a single year for his entire career was 8.5 million. That team was built differently than the Rams. They have the pieces for an offensive juggernaut in a league that continues to hamper the the abilties of defenders. 

 

In this situation I think it makes more sense to keep all the other pieces and let the big guy walk. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

[This is an automated response]

 

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A better title will help the community find information faster and make your topic more likely to be read. The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

Thank you.

[dave mcbride]

I think people are missing the point here. DTs are actually quite important (they're a major league reason  why the Giants beat the Pats in the '08 SB and Seattle annihilated Denver), but you need multiple elite players. The cap actually allows for that if you prioritize wisely. Who else are the Rams spending their money on? Last I checked they franchised a decent safety who is less than half the player Donald is, and the gave Brandin Cooks $49 million guaranteed. Goff and Gurley are still on rookie contracts. Michael Brockers has an $11 million cap hit too, as does their 36 year old LT. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/cap/

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think people are missing the point here. DTs are actually quite important (they're a major league reason  why the Giants beat the Pats in the '08 SB and Seattle annihilated Denver), but you need multiple elite players. The cap actually allows for that if you prioritize wisely. Who else are the Rams spending their money on? Last I checked they franchised a decent safety who is less than half the player Donald is, and the gave Brandin Cooks $49 million guaranteed. Goff and Gurley are still on rookie contracts. Michael Brockers has an $11 million cap hit too, as does their 36 year old LT. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/cap/

 

Yep. Barron as well is a good player who is getting well overpaid.  Suh is a one year rental.  They have space to sign their best player (Donald) and Gurley but it means that Joyner, Brockers, Barron, Suh, Whitworth and Talib all need to be moved on after this year.  I think the issue is that Donald wants to be paid now and while they can backload they can't really afford to give him any more money in 2018.  

[CommonCents]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I think people are missing the point here. DTs are actually quite important (they're a major league reason  why the Giants beat the Pats in the '08 SB and Seattle annihilated Denver), but you need multiple elite players. The cap actually allows for that if you prioritize wisely. Who else are the Rams spending their money on? Last I checked they franchised a decent safety who is less than half the player Donald is, and the gave Brandin Cooks $49 million guaranteed. Goff and Gurley are still on rookie contracts. Michael Brockers has an $11 million cap hit too, as does their 36 year old LT. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/cap/

36 year old LT who single handily has the most impact of any olineman in the entire NFL last season. 

 

Gurley got paid.

 

Marcus Peters contract jumps up next season because it’s his fifth year option and he will need a LTD soon.

 

Goff will cash in.

 

Talib is at 11/m this year then 8/m next year. That’s money spend and well worth it. 

 

They can’t pay Peters, Goff, Donald, Joyner etc.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

36 year old LT who single handily has the most impact of any olineman in the entire NFL last season. 

 

Gurley got paid.

 

Marcus Peters contract jumps up next season because it’s his fifth year option and he will need a LTD soon.

 

Goff will cash in.

 

Talib is at 11/m this year then 8/m next year. That’s money spend and well worth it. 

 

They can’t pay Peters, Goff, Donald, Joyner etc.

 

 

 

I'd rather release Marcus Peters than Aaron Donald.  I think Peters is good not great.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Each situation is different, the Bucs had Brad Johnson as QB and the most he made in a single year for his entire career was 8.5 million. That team was built differently than the Rams. They have the pieces for an offensive juggernaut in a league that continues to hamper the the abilties of defenders. 

 

In this situation I think it makes more sense to keep all the other pieces and let the big guy walk. 

This was also 14-18  years ago and he was the highest paid defensive tackle.  Peyton Manning was the highest paid player in the NFL in 2004 and didn't eclipse $100 million.  

 

When you have a top defensive tackle, teams dish up big money.

Cox, Atkins, Fletcher, Short, Casey and McCoy all given big contracts by the team that drafted them.  

Dareus and Suh too but both were shipped for character concerns.  

 

I think it's a mistake for the Rams to let Donald walk.  QB, anyone who can get to the QB, left tackles who protect the QB and top corners you always open the wallet IMO.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Stop.  Can we please just STOP with this crap?

 

There is this thing you can do - wait - it’ll come to me - I know!  You can not read threads you regard as crap and move on once you make that call

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This was also 14-18  years ago and he was the highest paid defensive tackle.  Peyton Manning was the highest paid player in the NFL in 2004 and didn't eclipse $100 million.  

 

When you have a top defensive tackle, teams dish up big money.

Cox, Atkins, Fletcher, Short, Casey and McCoy all given big contracts by the team that drafted them.  

Dareus and Suh too but both were shipped for character concerns.  

 

I think it's a mistake for the Rams to let Donald walk.  QB, anyone who can get to the QB, left tackles who protect the QB and top corners you always open the wallet IMO.

 

He is a great player, it’s a tough decision no doubt about it. I just see all that talent and I’m not limiting my cap for a DT. He was on the field when the Falcons held the ball for 38 minutes in the playoff game. 

 

The players listed above look more like a cautionary tale than anything else. 

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd rather release Marcus Peters than Aaron Donald.  I think Peters is good not great.

I thought they were better off with Johnson but that’s Snead’s guy and pairing him with Talib for two years is a power move. He is a gambler and that seems to fit the identity of the Rams. Splash plays galore. Can they win that way in the playoffs? It’s going to be fun watching them try.

[thenorthremembers]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Are you only measuring success by Super Bowl wins?  I ask because Atkins and Suh have been on playoff teams.

Anyone who can disrupt the QB and blow up a play is not a small piece.  There's reasons why these guys are making very good salaries with more than 1 above $100,000,000 contracts.

 

Warren Sapp had a big contract in his day and was a huge piece to the Bucs defense.

Joe Greene the same.  

 

DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green and Mike Evans are top paid WR that haven't won anything....are they not worth it?  Antonio Brown has won a Super Bowl either.

Darrell Revis never won with the Jets...was he worth the money?  Patrick Petersen?

I wasn't saying the players aren't successful.   What I am saying, especially in the Ram's case, is if you have to choose between paying a player who never has the ball in his hand, vs. a player who has the ball in his hand multiple times a game (Gurley or Goff) I am choosing the guy who has the ball.

 

In the instances you brought up, lets just take DT vs. WR (not including Sapp and Joe Greene here because they both played in different eras- More ground and pound ball control offenses)

 

Position	Regular Season Win %	Playoff Win %	SB Appearances
DT	54%	0%	0
WR	49%	50%	1

 

In this scenario, if I have both Antonio Brown and Aaron Donald on my team, I pay Brown 100% of the time. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

He is a great player, it’s a tough decision no doubt about it. I just see all that talent and I’m not limiting my cap for a DT. He was on the field when the Falcons held the ball for 38 minutes in the playoff game. 

 

The players listed above look more like a cautionary tale than anything else. 

 

That's happened with any great defensive player.

The Giants held the ball for 40 minutes against the Bills in Super Bowl 25 and we were loaded on defense.

 

 

6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I wasn't saying the players aren't successful.   What I am saying, especially in the Ram's case, is if you have to choose between paying a player who never has the ball in his hand, vs. a player who has the ball in his hand multiple times a game (Gurley or Goff) I am choosing the guy who has the ball.

 

In the instances you brought up, lets just take DT vs. WR (not including Sapp and Joe Greene here because they both played in different eras- More ground and pound ball control offenses)

 

Position	Regular Season Win %	Playoff Win %	SB Appearances
DT	54%	0%	0
WR	49%	50%	1

 

In this scenario, if I have both Antonio Brown and Aaron Donald on my team, I pay Brown 100% of the time. 

 

 

 

I take a QB over a DT for sure....franchise QB's are the hardest to find in the sports and the most important.

I'll never take an elite RB over an elite pass rusher who also can stop the run.

 

Let me ask you this.  Why are WR's not anywhere near the contract value of DT's?

Antonio Brown's the highest paid WR at a total contract of $68 million.  That would be 6th highest for DT.

 

I'm not sure what your chart is suggesting.  Can you elaborate?

[thenorthremembers]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's happened with any great defensive player.

The Giants held the ball for 40 minutes against the Bills in Super Bowl 25 and we were loaded on defense.

 

 

 

I take a QB over a DT for sure....franchise QB's are the hardest to find in the sports and the most important.

I'll never take an elite RB over an elite pass rusher who also can stop the run.

 

Let me ask you this.  Why are WR's not anywhere near the contract value of DT's?

Antonio Brown's the highest paid WR at a total contract of $68 million.  That would be 6th highest for DT.

 

I'm not sure what your chart is suggesting.  Can you elaborate?

 

Total contract is one thing, but the per year numbers would speak to a much different scenario.

 

The three highest paid by year wideouts are

Brown- 17/yr

Evans- 16.5/yr

Hopkins 16.2/yr

 

Defensive Tackles

Cox 17.1/yr

Short 16.1/yr

Dareus 15.85/yr

 

So, I think its closer than we think.   In terms of what 3-4 Defensive Tackles make a year (the scheme Donald is currently in) Michael Brockers is the highest paid guy at 11.083/yr

 

My chart is attempting to show that when comparing the players you mentioned in your previous post, the Wideouts meant more in terms of success in the playoffs.  Lot of variables there, most notably quarterback. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Total contract is one thing, but the per year numbers would speak to a much different scenario.

 

The three highest paid by year wideouts are

Brown- 17/yr

Evans- 16.5/yr

Hopkins 16.2/yr

 

Defensive Tackles

Cox 17.1/yr

Short 16.1/yr

Dareus 15.85/yr

 

So, I think its closer than we think.   In terms of what 3-4 Defensive Tackles make a year (the scheme Donald is currently in) Michael Brockers is the highest paid guy at 11.083/yr

 

My chart is attempting to show that when comparing the players you mentioned in your previous post, the Wideouts meant more in terms of success in the playoffs.  Lot of variables there, most notably quarterback. 

 

Another scenario you can look at is guaranteed money.  Brown is at $19 million.  Cox at $63 million etc....

 

Im not a contract expert but doesn’t longer term contracts mean it’s harder to get rid of them?  Correct me if I’m wrong.  

 

How does Cox not make your chart when the Eagles won the Super Bowl?

[billsfan_34]

9 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

I believe the Bills have a better chance at Mack than this scenario for all the reasons I've posted elsewhere. Darnold is going nowhere, but Mack is in play.

Is Carr in a contract year? If so maybe they have to tag Carr. That would make Mack a free man!