SouthNYfan Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 48 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: I am pretty sure the fella that moved to NFL Network (the Sports Science guy) -- along with Trent Dilfer -- indicated that Allen had a quick release on par with Brady. Now I don't know about throwing motion and how that is factored in or not. They timed his throwing motion, it was as fast as Aaron Rodgers, not Brady, I mean it might be Brady speed, but the guys on the show used Rodgers as a comp 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 58 minutes ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said: you sure Allen doesn't have a fast release? I am going to go look that up right now. He does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 54 minutes ago, LaDexter said: Yeah, I am "making up" Allen's motion... and I PhotoShopped a pic to back it up... NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go read how a quality team acquires QB talent at the right price.... https://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/nfl/article212840789.html Josh Allen's release is not at all out of the ordinary for an NFL QB... but it is not a QUICK one... and your parroting doesn't even say it is... So you're saying Tom Brady has a slow release too then because Allen's and Brady's are pretty much the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I couldn’t care less how Allen does in shorts. It’s crazy that people talk about his improvement since the season ended. I’m sure Allen would dominate in flag football. Can’t wait to see him against nfl competition. i have serious doubts but I want him to show some flashes of those physical skills in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, LaDexter said: Cardale Jones is a perfect QB prospect except for what is between his ears. A la Jamarcus Russel 2.0 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I couldn’t care less how Allen does in shorts. It’s crazy that people talk about his improvement since the season ended. I’m sure Allen would dominate in flag football. Can’t wait to see him against nfl competition. i have serious doubts but I want him to show some flashes of those physical skills in camp. Maybe we are ahead of the curve! Is that where the NFL is headed? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Albwan said: I'm rapidly becoming disinterested in football, but i will be rooting for josh to be good just because i know so many will be rooting hard against him. Here's hoping for lots of triggering when josh throws multiple td's in one game. Who is going to be rooting against him the Peterman fan club ?? Many did not like the pick but im pretty sure everyone is on board by now , how can anyone claim to be a Bills fan if they’re rooting against the kid ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albwan Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, Putin said: Who is going to be rooting against him the Peterman fan club ?? Many did not like the pick but im pretty sure everyone is on board by now , how can anyone claim to be a Bills fan if they’re rooting against the kid ?? cmon, the peterman fan club, that would never happen. You know the fan club i'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Funniest part of this whole thread is Chefs fan trying to pump up Mahomes by trashing the way Allen "turns the ball"...LOL...those Chefs fans are schitting bricks right now, praying Reid made the right decision to trade Smith. Sport Science measured Allen's "load to release" at 0.38 seconds, on par with Brady. Nice try, Chefs fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB@Shooter Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 22 hours ago, LaDexter said: Yeah, Marino had a very quick release. The motion also dictates the quickness issue. Byron Leftwich had a huge wind-up - took forever to get rid of the ball. Cardale has a very fast release. Allen doesn't. Whatever you are smoking, I want some. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB@Shooter Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 On 6/10/2018 at 11:08 PM, Zerovotlz said: GaryPinC is seeing what I am seeing. BB@Shooter....curious to know your thoughts on Allens development...should he sit? should he play now? What do you think about what you've seen and hear about him so far? Submitted without further comment. Zero....I saw Allen in person in 16 games or somewhere like that. And the rest on TV. I have seen every BYU qb come through the last 30 years. I saw both Carr's and Dilfer in person. I saw Dalton and Smith in person. In other words I have seen a lot off qb's in my years. That is just the tip of the iceberg. I would like to see Allen play, but know that sitting him would be best. He is used to poor line play and below average receivers, so he can probably handle what is thrown at him. I would have loved to see Mahomes try and play at Wyoming, it would have been hysterical. People need to let it go until he is in pads, then you will see the leadership and toughness. The guy knows how to win. He put those Wyoming teams on his back and carried them. Old hat to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 22 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: So you're saying Tom Brady has a slow release too then because Allen's and Brady's are pretty much the same. Somehow my points either didn't quite catch, or the reading comprehension skills here are really poor. Any QB who throws with a full wind-up with the ball pointing 180 degrees the wrong way behind the head.... is doing a lot more motion than Marino, Culter, or Cardale... which explains why the release is not "quick" by NFL standards... Find where I said his release was "slow" or apologize for lying.... Josh Allen doesn't have a quick release... he has an AVERAGE release... there, can you understand that??? 21 hours ago, Putin said: A la Jamarcus Russel 2.0 ? JaMarcus took his $40 million and didn't lead, try, or even stay in shape. According to Rex, Cardale tried very hard here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, LaDexter said: Somehow my points either didn't quite catch, or the reading comprehension skills here are really poor. Any QB who throws with a full wind-up with the ball pointing 180 degrees the wrong way behind the head.... is doing a lot more motion than Marino, Culter, or Cardale... which explains why the release is not "quick" by NFL standards... Find where I said his release was "slow" or apologize for lying.... Josh Allen doesn't have a quick release... he has an AVERAGE release... there, can you understand that??? JaMarcus took his $40 million and didn't lead, try, or even stay in shape. According to Rex, Cardale tried very hard here.... Reading comprehension falls short on you. Look up an antonym for quick. You said not quick which would be the opposite of quick. So before you want to slam someone else for reading comprehension maybe you should brush up on your own. When it comes to the release motion Google Brady release images. Brady has many images such as the one you showed of Allen. There are plenty more of these Brady ones out there. quick kwik/ adjective 1. moving fast or doing something in a short time. antonyms: slow Edited June 12, 2018 by Zebrastripes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, BB@Shooter said: Zero....I saw Allen in person in 16 games or somewhere like that. And the rest on TV. I have seen every BYU qb come through the last 30 years. I saw both Carr's and Dilfer in person. I saw Dalton and Smith in person. In other words I have seen a lot off qb's in my years. That is just the tip of the iceberg. I would like to see Allen play, but know that sitting him would be best. He is used to poor line play and below average receivers, so he can probably handle what is thrown at him. I would have loved to see Mahomes try and play at Wyoming, it would have been hysterical. People need to let it go until he is in pads, then you will see the leadership and toughness. The guy knows how to win. He put those Wyoming teams on his back and carried them. Old hat to him. Well...then we seem to be in agreement about Allen at least...I am strongly advocating that he sit for now....and I am not disagreeing with what you saw Allen do at Wyoming...it's why I think he should sit...that environment was not one conducive to training a QB up to make reads, throws from the pocket. He has nothing but a history of low completion pct..so I don't know if he'll ever improve.....you'd think there'd be a pattern of progress there as most QB's display in college...but I digress...when you take a ton of reps and most of those reps are running around and trying to find open slow targets...that isn't good prep for the NFL....good prep is what he is getting now and he needs to repeat this and work on it on the practice field and in the classroom. He has the tools that everyone wants..it's why he went in the top 10 of the draft...big arm, big body, athletic, mobile and smart..and by all accounts a good leader...everything you'd want...I'm not telling anyone here anything new...the scouting reports all say the same thing.....if he is ever going to be more than a great prototypical tools guy...he needs quality reps with quality coaching and players around him...his college experience did not provide him that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I'm not one to put much stock in press conferences, but Shady's comments did raise my eyebrows. Looking forward to seeing Allen develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB@Shooter Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: Well...then we seem to be in agreement about Allen at least...I am strongly advocating that he sit for now....and I am not disagreeing with what you saw Allen do at Wyoming...it's why I think he should sit...that environment was not one conducive to training a QB up to make reads, throws from the pocket. He has nothing but a history of low completion pct..so I don't know if he'll ever improve.....you'd think there'd be a pattern of progress there as most QB's display in college...but I digress...when you take a ton of reps and most of those reps are running around and trying to find open slow targets...that isn't good prep for the NFL....good prep is what he is getting now and he needs to repeat this and work on it on the practice field and in the classroom. He has the tools that everyone wants..it's why he went in the top 10 of the draft...big arm, big body, athletic, mobile and smart..and by all accounts a good leader...everything you'd want...I'm not telling anyone here anything new...the scouting reports all say the same thing.....if he is ever going to be more than a great prototypical tools guy...he needs quality reps with quality coaching and players around him...his college experience did not provide him that. You don't seem to have a clue about Allen and why his stats are the way they are. You are guessing about what was good and bad for him at Wyoming. First off he was in a run first offense. They ran on 1st and 2nd down religiously. That usually left him with a 3rd and long situation going against an 8 man front. And then comes the blitz. He didn't have time to throw deep unless he scrambled and extended the play. His OC was predictable, so no flow to the offense. All of this will put him ahead of other qbs because he has seen it all. People like you read he had a low completion rate, you don't delve into why. Allens HC and OC had Wentz at NDSU, so they leaned on both qbs to manage clock and shorten the game. Let the Defense carry the water behind a running game. You have no clue about his receivers and their routes. The coaching staff didn't build the offense around Allen, they made him adapt to the offense and waited for him to bail them out. I am not going to get too deep into all of this because I have already done it in other posts. All you need to do is watch the 1st quarter of his bowl game, and the 2nd half of the senior bowl. That is vintage Allen. You underestimate him like so many others. He can sit or play, but I think he gives the Bills the best shot at winning if their D is fairly good. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 He's doing so well that Rosenites and other dissenters (Hi Scorp) are keeping a low profile. When even Mike Rodak is writing glowing reports, it can't be bad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Looking forward to some preseason to see how he does. Intersting to see if he wins the job outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 On 6/12/2018 at 5:05 PM, Zebrastripes said: You said not quick which would be the opposite of quick No, it also means AVERAGE.... QUICK AVERAGE SLOW Josh Allen is AVERAGE on release time... but NOT QUICK because he goes all the way back with the ball and points the ball 180 degrees backwards before he brings it forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Just now, LaDexter said: No, it also means AVERAGE.... QUICK AVERAGE SLOW Josh Allen is AVERAGE on release time... but NOT QUICK because he goes all the way back with the ball and points the ball 180 degrees backwards before he brings it forward. Not here to argue the English language just to talk football. Anyhow I showed you a picture of Brady that looks just like the one you posted of Allen. Most everyone agrees Brady has a quick release. John Brenkus broke down Allen's release time and his words were "on par with Brady" for his release time. I get what your saying about turning the football and having a slow release. Problem is that argument doesn't hold water with Allen. He was fitted with all the equipment and tested for his release speed which was .38 seconds in case you were wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, LaDexter said: No, it also means AVERAGE.... QUICK AVERAGE SLOW Josh Allen is AVERAGE on release time... but NOT QUICK because he goes all the way back with the ball and points the ball 180 degrees backwards before he brings it forward. You measure quick by time, not distant. All the “experts” I hear from swear he’s super quick in his release....and they timed it. I won’t bother to go find exactly how fast he was timed, but I’m sure they didn’t time “distance”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, LaDexter said: No, it also means AVERAGE.... QUICK AVERAGE SLOW Josh Allen is AVERAGE on release time... but NOT QUICK because he goes all the way back with the ball and points the ball 180 degrees backwards before he brings it forward. The sport science or w/e it’s called with Dilfer and the geek disputes that arguement. They timed his release to be almost as fast as Aaron Rodgers and in the elite category. Time is the measurement on quick, not distance. Regardless if his arm goes back further, his arm moves faster than the others. He gets rid of the ball faster than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 hours ago, LaDexter said: No, it also means AVERAGE.... QUICK AVERAGE SLOW Josh Allen is AVERAGE on release time... but NOT QUICK because he goes all the way back with the ball and points the ball 180 degrees backwards before he brings it forward. Gets so interesting listening to ppl that don’t know a damn thing of what they are talking about josh Allen’s upper body mechanics are near flawless he has lower body issues that affect accuracy his release is very quick and he can flick the ball and the velocity is amazing educate yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) On 6/17/2018 at 8:43 PM, John from Riverside said: josh Allen’s upper body mechanics are near flawless Turning the ball around 180 degrees is not "flawless," not even close. Many NFL teams try to teach QBs who have that motion to stop doing that and use Cardale's motion.... Notice in the top photo how LOW he goes in his windup, also something the NFL doesn't want. His delivery is VERY FLAWED... Many NFL edge rushers will swat the ball away from behind BECAUSE his delivery and windup are long and almost full "windmill." On 6/17/2018 at 2:56 PM, Augie said: All the “experts” I hear BAWK..... Edited June 20, 2018 by LaDexter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBeets Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/9/2018 at 10:52 PM, Zerovotlz said: ***I am biased*** but being as objective as I can be here.... 1. I don't want to lose site of the actual thread topic. This is a Josh Allen thread and about how he is doing. The reports coming out all match up with his scouting report. He has an incredible arm. He is mobile. He looks the part, and he is missing some throws. He is behind the others learning the playbook because the others have been here longer but he is catching up....high wonderlic score would indicate he can learn fast. This is ALL as advertised.....and he needs to SIT. I've done some analysis of QB's who started in the super bowl over the past 20 years and I looked at the first 16 games each of them started. The data in this case shows that sitting did not matter. A guy who sat 3 years had the same QB rating as the guy who started from day one over the course of the their first 16 games. It suggests that a super bowl starting caliber QB is going to be good wether he sits or not....and that the first 16 games of on field experiecne matter more than anything else. ......in the case of Allen, I would say he is one of the few who WOULD BENEFIT from sitting. His low completion pct playing at a small school, and the notion that he had a poor line and had to move around a lot suggests his reps in college were not very productive reps....in that he was often repeating plays where he had to run around etc and throw to less than decent targets....he isn't at a point where he would benefit by getting on an NFL field until he's had a TON of reps, in practice, with NFL level coaching, getting him prepared for the speed of the game, getting him used to the idea that he'll need to trust a pocket will be there and make reads to guys moving a lot faster. He needs to sit at least a year for all of this to take hold. Against the data, in this case...the exception is Josh Allen...there has never been such an obvious case for completely ruling a guy out of any plans to start for at least a year than this case with Allen. For the benefit of your team and your future....root for him to SIT. 2. Again...I am biased....and trying to be objective as I can....Mahomes is going to be a generational talent...you'll see it soon enough. If you draw your opinions on box scores, you are missing A LOT. Mahomes did have identifiable issues with his footwork, and he did make some glaringly poor throws in college. It's why he didn't go first overall...he needed some work. He got work. .....I can post a ton on this etc...but this is a Bills forum...I understand where I am here....I hope Allen works out for the Bills...I am looking forward to seing how it plays out in time. Lots of new QB talent coming into the leauge this past coupole seasons...very exciting times. 3. If nothing else....let Peterman or McCaron take the beating for the first 8 games at least. If you are honest about where the Bills roster is at this time, it isn't that great. Especially on offense. Let the kid sit...let the lesser guys take the pounding, and the wrath of the fans and media....then when he does get put into game action later on...the season will long be over, the team and fans will be ready to look at the remaining games to see what Allen can do and how he progresses...instead of looking at him as the guy who is going to save the franchise right now (he isn't ready!) SIT. SIT. SIT. Patience....and more paitience. Keep your shiny toy in the box for a while.... Mahomes is a generational talent had me cracking up!! You will be missing Alex Smith very soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, LaDexter said: Turning the ball around 180 degrees is not "flawless," not even close. Many NFL teams try to teach QBs who have that motion to stop doing that and use Cardale's motion.... Notice in the top photo how LOW he goes in his windup, also something the NFL doesn't want. His delivery is VERY FLAWED... Many NFL edge rushers will swat the ball away from behind BECAUSE his delivery and windup are long and almost full "windmill." BAWK..... Still photos show NOTHING Keep up with the weak arguement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Still photos show NOTHING Keep up with the weak arguement Google Josh Allen and click on images. You will see the exact photos. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, TonyBeets said: Mahomes is a generational talent had me cracking up!! You will be missing Alex Smith very soon! https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/6/19/17477286/patrick-mahomes-hype-train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Again, quick is measured in time. Distance in the motion is another matter. Measured with a stopwatch, apparently he’s very quick. I don’t care HOW he gets it out so quick. I very much DO care if he can get it where it needs to go. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 3:38 PM, Albwan said: I'm rapidly becoming disinterested in football, but i will be rooting for josh to be good just because i know so many will be rooting hard against him. Here's hoping for lots of triggering when josh throws multiple td's in one game. Like who for example? On 6/14/2018 at 12:30 PM, YoloinOhio said: pass was high. He's gonna get somebody killed with passes like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Still photos show NOTHING Keep up with the weak arguement the top one looks like a staged action shot for a Nike ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/6/19/17477286/patrick-mahomes-hype-train You know the funny thing is I have absolutely nothing against the Chiefs as long as we are not playing them..... but The Chiefs are really gambling with their chips all in on Mahommes......who has done nothing yet to show this kind of trust. To me trading away a established veteran was bizarre......as your veteran QB was better then our veteran QB that we traded away for a 3rd. Mahommes has a nice situation with those targets......I dont have that same confidence in your OL.....he didnt play under Center in college.....he didnt look great when he got his opportunites as a rookie. We didnt feel it was the time to take a QB....I was very happy with getting Tre and punting to the next draft year where I felt the QB prospects were better. If Mahommes starts the year and does well.....and Josh Allen does not start the year I wont feel like we lost the trade one bit. Different QBs....different situations. Good luck to Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: You know the funny thing is I have absolutely nothing against the Chiefs as long as we are not playing them..... but The Chiefs are really gambling with their chips all in on Mahommes......who has done nothing yet to show this kind of trust. To me trading away a established veteran was bizarre......as your veteran QB was better then our veteran QB that we traded away for a 3rd. Mahommes has a nice situation with those targets......I dont have that same confidence in your OL.....he didnt play under Center in college.....he didnt look great when he got his opportunites as a rookie. We didnt feel it was the time to take a QB....I was very happy with getting Tre and punting to the next draft year where I felt the QB prospects were better. If Mahommes starts the year and does well.....and Josh Allen does not start the year I wont feel like we lost the trade one bit. Different QBs....different situations. Good luck to Patrick You didn't click on the link and read the article, that is full of plenty of video breakdown...detaling why they traded smith and why all the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBeets Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/6/19/17477286/patrick-mahomes-hype-train Oh boy I'm very convinced now. A chiefs fan linked me to an article where Mahomes displayed awful mechanics. Generational indeed. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Zerovotlz said: You didn't click on the link and read the article, that is full of plenty of video breakdown...detaling why they traded smith and why all the hype. I absolutely did And I absolutely dont care You traded away a good veteran QB and pushed all in on a player that has done NOTHING yet None of that is disputable 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/6/19/17477286/patrick-mahomes-hype-train Hahaha. Mahomes is going to be a disaster. Horrible mechanics. Heaving passes into traffic. I can’t wait to watch it happen. Edited June 21, 2018 by Jay_Fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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