Bucky Gleason Leaving TBN After Requesting a Buyout - Jerry Sullivan and Now Tim Graham Out

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Except it wasn't done just for recruiting. It was done to give UB the status of being THE state school, like a Penn State or Ohio State.  To raise the profile of the school nationally.

The issue is that UB isn't any better than Stony Brook (a better run institution) at this point, and it's a worse undergraduate institution than Binghamton (I say this as a UB grad). Why should they get the claim to the NY moniker?  Both Stony Brook and Binghamton are inarguably more selective now too. 

 

The basic issue is that the SUNY system was modeled on the UC system, with a bunch (4) of university centers and a larger number of colleges. In retrospect (given that NYS entered a decades-long stretch of relative decline just as the system was created), there should have been a flagship campus in the Hudson valley and a "State" campus in western NY (a la the Michigan, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, etc. systems). Water under the bridge now, of course, but UB is never going to be elite enough relative to the other two to claim the mantle of being "the" state university in NY.  Indeed, UB was initially conceived of the Berkeley of the system, but it never achieved that height relative to the others (partly because of regional economic decline). Why not just be happy with what the California model SUNY follows actually does -- derive the school name from its locale (UCSD, UCLA, UCSB, etc.)? 

Edited June 1, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Gugny]

37 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Bull crap. Fresno (large V on the back of their helmets) did it when Pat Hill was coach and it continues today. I’m sure there are other examples, including the Bills regionalization efforts. Does it work? Who knows? But for locals to get their panties bunched is extreme.

 

You say "crap" a lot.

 

@YoloinOhio

Edited June 1, 2018 by Gugny

[Lurker]

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You just made my point with your last sentence. 

 

Just so you know I have never said that your opinions are invalid. It just seems that you have a tendency to challenge the person for an opposing position. Just an observation. 

 

Mirror, mirror on TSW, who's got the most legitimate POV of them all.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So you don't think I have a valid opinion on this matter? It's just my chip? At least I'm stating reasons. It would be nice if instead of snark you respond with a reasoned dissent.

Is that a serious inquiry?  

 

No, I think you have such a large chip on your shoulder that any slight, real or imagined, against Buffalo gets to you.

[DrDawkinstein]

Part 2 from The Public

 

What's Happening at the Buffalo News: Part 2

 

http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/06012018/whats-happening-buffalo-news-part-2

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

You say "crap" a lot.

 

@YoloinOhio

Pardon me. Is poo poo better?

[Gugny]

Just now, Cripple Creek said:

Pardon me. Is poo poo better?

 

Both are efforts made to circumvent the naughty word filter.

 

Reported.

[Cripple Creek]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Both are efforts made to circumvent the naughty word filter.

 

Reported.

Sorry about that. I’ve edited my original post above. You’re right, it’s time to call a spade a spade.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Sorry about that. I’ve edited my original post above. You’re right, it’s time to call a spade a spade.

 

Spade?  Okay, Roseanne.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The issue is that UB isn't any better than Stony Brook (a better run institution) at this point, and it's a worse undergraduate institution than Binghamton (I say this as a UB grad). Why should they get the claim to the NY moniker?  Both Stony Brook and Binghamton are inarguably more selective now too. 

 

The basic issue is that the SUNY system was modeled on the UC system, with a bunch (4) of university centers and a larger number of colleges. In retrospect (given that NYS entered a decades-long stretch of relative decline just as the system was created), there should have been a flagship campus in the Hudson valley and a "State" campus in western NY (a la the Michigan, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, etc. systems). Water under the bridge now, of course, but UB is never going to be elite enough relative to the other two to claim the mantle of being "the" state university in NY.  Indeed, UB was initially conceived of the Berkeley of the system, but it never achieved that height relative to the others (partly because of regional economic decline). Why not just be happy with what the California model SUNY follows actually does -- derive the school name from its locale (UCSD, UCLA, UCSB, etc.)? 

 

And yet there is a "Cal."

 

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Is that a serious inquiry?  

 

No, I think you have such a large chip on your shoulder that any slight, real or imagined, against Buffalo gets to you.

 

It was a serious inquiry. One which you declined, apparently. How come?

Edited June 1, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

And yet there is a "Cal."

 

 

It was a serious inquiry. One which you declined, apparently. How come?

I answered. No. I take your opinions on slights against Buffalo with the entirety of Bonneville, tbh.

[4_kidd_4]

21 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You don't suppose he and Brandon could pick up 'wardrobe considerations' from Napoli's Men's Shop, even in their relative 'disgrace'?

 

Ok, how about United Mens' Stores?  Chess King?

 

Shout out to Chess King, my employer senior year of HS. Then I moved up to Structure. Then I got behind a bar and realized that working retail is for suckers!

[dave mcbride]

44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

And yet there is a "Cal."

 

 

It was a serious inquiry. One which you declined, apparently. How come?

Um ... UB is not "Cal" -- I mean it's not even close in virtually every category, so why bring this up? -- and most people call it UC-Berkeley or Berkeley now anyway (within both academia and the state of California, that is).  Sports fans call it "Cal," I guess. More importantly , for half a century Cal was the only state public institution, created long before the second one, UCLA. Berkeley was created in 1868 and UCLA was created in the 1920s.  UB and the others all came into existence as SUNY schools at exactly the same moment in the early 1960s. 

 

It's not an apt comparison. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by dave mcbride

[gomper]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Part 2 from The Public

 

What's Happening at the Buffalo News: Part 2

 

http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/06012018/whats-happening-buffalo-news-part-2

Interesting read. Part 1 was fascinating as well. I actually liked Jerry. Was too much of the same at times? Absolutely. However, if you ever hear him on out of town radio, such as the FAN590, he is really insightful. The BN dug their own grave and it's convenient to blame the style of a man for alienating your readership rather than own up to your own mistakes. 

[K-9]

46 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Um ... UB is not "Cal" -- I mean it's not even close in virtually every category, so why bring this up? -- and most people call it UC-Berkeley or Berkeley now anyway (within both academia and the state of California, that is).  Sports fans call it "Cal," I guess. More importantly , for half a century Cal was the only state public institution, created long before the second one, UCLA. Berkeley was created in 1868 and UCLA was created in the 1920s.  UB and the others all came into existence as SUNY schools at exactly the same moment in the early 1960s. 

 

It's not an apt comparison. 

UB was founded in 1846. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Um ... UB is not "Cal" -- I mean it's not even close in virtually every category, so why bring this up? -- and most people call it UC-Berkeley or Berkeley now anyway (within both academia and the state of California, that is).  Sports fans call it "Cal," I guess. More importantly , for half a century Cal was the only state public institution, created long before the second one, UCLA. Berkeley was created in 1868 and UCLA was created in the 1920s.  UB and the others all came into existence as SUNY schools at exactly the same moment in the early 1960s. 

 

It's not an apt comparison. 

 

The sports comparison was the one I was making. That there is a "Cal," a Penn State, an Ohio State, etc. That was the thinking behind the New York branding. It wasn't a comparison of institutions on an academic level.

 

50 minutes ago, K-9 said:

UB was founded in 1846. 

 

Dave McBride did qualify his statement "...as SUNY schools" so he isn't wrong. But unlike the California system they were supposedly modeled on, SUNY placed no value on major level athletics. UB has been playing catch up since. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[K-9]

35 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

The sports comparison was the one I was making. That there is a "Cal," a Penn State, an Ohio State, etc. That was the thinking behind the New York branding. It wasn't a comparison of institutions on an academic level.

 

 

Dave McBride did qualify his statement "...as SUNY schools" so he isn't wrong. But unlike the California system they were supposedly modeled on, SUNY placed no value on major level athletics. UB has been playing catch up since. 

I appreciated Dave’s qualification as I understand the inception of the SUNY system in the early 60s and UB becoming a member school. I just thought it was worth mentioning given his mention of how old Berkeley is when UB is actually 20 years older.

[beerme1]

7 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Bull gugny. Fresno (large V on the back of their helmets) did it when Pat Hill was coach and it continues today. I’m sure there are other examples, including the Bills regionalization efforts. Does it work? Who knows? But for locals to get their panties bunched is extreme.

 

Fresno's not Buffalo. It made news here in print, on tv and the radio that people were pissed off about it. If it was an extreme reaction as you say so be it. It happened though that's all I'm saying.

[PromoTheRobot]

56 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

Fresno's not Buffalo. It made news here in print, on tv and the radio that people were pissed off about it. If it was an extreme reaction as you say so be it. It happened though that's all I'm saying.

 

It made news because certain writers chose to treat it like UB was kicking everyone's dog.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, beerme1 said:

 

Fresno's not Buffalo. It made news here in print, on tv and the radio that people were pissed off about it. If it was an extreme reaction as you say so be it. It happened though that's all I'm saying.

But, Buffalo is Buffalo.  People were happy that the Bills regionalized because they understood that was the best way to keep the team long term.

 

How many people go to a typical UB home game?

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

But, Buffalo is Buffalo.  People were happy that the Bills regionalized because they understood that was the best way to keep the team long term.

 

How many people go to a typical UB home game?

 

They averaged 13,350/game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Buffalo_Bulls_football_team

 

[steven50]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:03 AM, JohnC said:

Ask the taxi industry if Uber hasn't affected their business? You claim that the newspaper industry isn't adapting. It is. It is eliminating the paper and going digital where it can. It still has to figure out the economics of a subscriber model.

 

I think there is more to it then that. The Buffalo News has become less and less "Buffalo" every year for the last 15 years. I think there is still value a local newspaper can have covering local things.

 

Sports is a great example. When was the last time the Bills or Sabres had a major trade or event and the story was broke by the Buffalo News or even WGR? Our local reporters are always reporting what someone else has said has happened with the teams. When the Russ Brandon stuff broke I was listening to our local guys try to get confirmation about what was going on with the team two miles from there home from a guy in another state. That is crazy.

 

The news isn't really news anymore it is just regurgitated stuff from the NY times and opinion pieces.

 

If they actually covered real local things then I would still be reading.

 

 

 

[BigDingus]

What is TBN? And does this impact the Bills in some way?

 

Asking seriously, not trying to be rude. Just haven't heard it spoken of on these boards or anything.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, steven50 said:

 

I think there is more to it then that. The Buffalo News has become less and less "Buffalo" every year for the last 15 years. I think there is still value a local newspaper can have covering local things.

 

Sports is a great example. When was the last time the Bills or Sabres had a major trade or event and the story was broke by the Buffalo News or even WGR? Our local reporters are always reporting what someone else has said has happened with the teams. When the Russ Brandon stuff broke I was listening to our local guys try to get confirmation about what was going on with the team two miles from there home from a guy in another state. That is crazy.

 

The news isn't really news anymore it is just regurgitated stuff from the NY times and opinion pieces.

 

If they actually covered real local things then I would still be reading.

 

 

 

Stories are almost never broken by local media in any market, because agents are one of the main sources and they all have relationships with the National guys.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, BigDingus said:

What is TBN? And does this impact the Bills in some way?

 

Asking seriously, not trying to be rude. Just haven't heard it spoken of on these boards or anything.

 

TBN = The Buffalo News.

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

They averaged 13,350/game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Buffalo_Bulls_football_team

 

Thank you. The uproar must have been ear splitting. I totally get it now.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The sports comparison was the one I was making. That there is a "Cal," a Penn State, an Ohio State, etc. That was the thinking behind the New York branding. It wasn't a comparison of institutions on an academic level.

 

Dave McBride did qualify his statement "...as SUNY schools" so he isn't wrong. But unlike the California system they were supposedly modeled on, SUNY placed no value on major level athletics. UB has been playing catch up since. 

 

I understood McBride's qualification.  I think the point is germaine that UB existed as "UB" for >100 yrs and had significant local brand before it re-branded and became SUNY/Buffalo

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

They averaged 13,350/game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Buffalo_Bulls_football_team

 

 

 

Yes and as their team team has had more success and had players drafted and played higher competition- the number has gone up - including building a new stadium to house the increase in fans.

 

If UB could take on a mantle of a powerhouse state school - like a Penn State or Ohio State or even a lesser degree Oklahoma State, NC State type and get some additional funding - they could increase their athletic pull more - and take over what Syracuse used to be - the dominant NYS athletic school.  

 

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Stories are almost never broken by local media in any market, because agents are one of the main sources and they all have relationships with the National guys.

 

 

But the old time reporters - Felser and Carruci version 1 and especially Jim Kelley - had great insight and communication with the owners, coaching staff, and players and could be counted and trusted to get the whole story and present it in a fair way - that allowed them to break stories and be the guy the national people went to.

 

Bucky, Sully, and Sal from Rochester- have lost/never developed those connections and have actually pushed the organizations away.  Therefore very little gets out of OBD to the local team and we are left with the national guys breaking everything.

 

Many markets - local guys get wind and are the sources to national guys - look to NY with Metta and Cleveland with Cabbott.  These guys have established and cultivated their organizational contacts for years and don’t present the team as a bunch of bumwads - even though a place like Cleveland has had less success than Buffalo over the last 20 years and even lost their team.  That is what TBN is/was missing - without a trusted source - the Bills and Sabres basically froze TBN out and the staff got more and more bitter.

 

When Kryk in Toronto is actually one of the preferred and go to reporters over TBN - there is an issue.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Yes and as their team team has had more success and had players drafted and played higher competition- the number has gone up - including building a new stadium to house the increase in fans.

 

If UB could take on a mantle of a powerhouse state school - like a Penn State or Ohio State or even a lesser degree Oklahoma State, NC State type and get some additional funding - they could increase their athletic pull more - and take over what Syracuse used to be - the dominant NYS athletic school.  

 

 

I hope Bills fans take note that UB plays Eastern Michigan the same weekend as the Bills home opener. If you are in town Saturday 6pm why not catch the game? UB has a nice tailgate party with country singer Chase Bryant performing. Parking is free. There are some nice spots to tailgate by the small lake on campus.

 

http://ubbulls.com/tickets/football/whynotus

Edited June 2, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

But the old time reporters - Felser and Carruci version 1 and especially Jim Kelley - had great insight and communication with the owners, coaching staff, and players and could be counted and trusted to get the whole story and present it in a fair way - that allowed them to break stories and be the guy the national people went to.

 

Bucky, Sully, and Sal from Rochester- have lost/never developed those connections and have actually pushed the organizations away.  Therefore very little gets out of OBD to the local team and we are left with the national guys breaking everything.

 

Many markets - local guys get wind and are the sources to national guys - look to NY with Metta and Cleveland with Cabbott.  These guys have established and cultivated their organizational contacts for years and don’t present the team as a bunch of bumwads - even though a place like Cleveland has had less success than Buffalo over the last 20 years and even lost their team.  That is what TBN is/was missing - without a trusted source - the Bills and Sabres basically froze TBN out and the staff got more and more bitter.

 

When Kryk in Toronto is actually one of the preferred and go to reporters over TBN - there is an issue.

 

 

That's from a different era.  

 

Metta's track record for breaking accurate stories is actually not great, and I'm not familiar with Cabbott's work.  I am quite confident that even with a few exceptions worth mentioning, almost zero local guys in all markets have stories before Schefter and the gang get them with any sort of consistency, for reasons posted above. 

[Peter]

9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

That's from a different era.  

 

Metta's track record for breaking accurate stories is actually not great, and I'm not familiar with Cabbott's work.  I am quite confident that even with a few exceptions worth mentioning, almost zero local guys in all markets have stories before Schefter and the gang get them with any sort of consistency, for reasons posted above. 

 

Tim Graham has broken stories.

 

Vic has broken stories.

 

JW has as well.

 

Even Rodak has broken stories . . . which makes it all the more embarrassing for Sully, Bucky, and Harrington. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Peter

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Peter said:

 

Tim Graham has broken stories.

 

Vic has broken stories.

 

JW has as well.

 

Even Rodak has broken stories . . . which makes it all the more embarrassing for Sully, Bucky, and Harrington. 

The only story I can think of in the last 5 years that TG broke was the Russ Brandon story.

 

I'm not sure Vic has had anything notable in the last decade.

 

JW struggles to "break" stories due to the rigorous standards of the AP, but that's the price you pay for guaranteed quality journalism.

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

The only story I can think of in the last 5 years that TG broke was the Russ Brandon story.

 

I'm not sure Vic has had anything notable in the last decade.

 

JW struggles to "break" stories due to the rigorous standards of the AP, but that's the price you pay for guaranteed quality journalism.

 

By way of example, Tim and JW each broke stories relating to the Bills sale etc. as I recall.

 

Vic was the one that wrote that Rex was likely to get fired if the Bills did not make the playoffs.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Peter

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

By way of example, Tim and JW each broke stories relating to the Bills sale etc. as I recall.

 

Vic was the one that wrote that Rex was likely to get fired if the Bills did not make the playoffs.

That makes one story 4 years ago.

 

That's kinda the point.

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

That makes one story 4 years ago.

 

That's kinda the point.

 

These are just off the top of my head.

 

The fact is that they DO break stories.  They DO have access.  

 

The guys you are defending have broken nothing, nil, zilch.  

 

P.S. You are not able to count.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Peter
Edit

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Peter said:

 

These are just off the top of my head.

 

The fact is that they DO break stories.  They DO have access.  

 

The guys you are defending have broken nothing, nil, zilch.  

I just don't see the difference between 1 and zero, when the national guys have broken the last couple 100.

[BillsFan4]

What I miss the most from the Buffalo News is all of those inside access/behind the scenes stories they used to write. 

 

I dont know what exactly happened, or why they stopped.

 

That was info that you couldn't get anywhere else. It made the Buffalo News sports section (at the time) a "Must Read" for me. 

 

If TBN not writing as many inside access stories was due to their reporters having bad relationships with Pegula (It wasn't too long after Pegula bought the Sabres that you heard rumors of a fallout between them and TBN, and shortly after that it seemed like many of those behind the scenes, inside access pieces started drying up), I really hope bringing in new blood opens that door up again. 

 

 

[Peter]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

I just don't see the difference between 1 and zero, when the national guys have broken the last couple 100.

 

Again, you are unable to count.

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Again, you are unable to count.

Who broke every single FA and trade for the Bills this offseason?

 

Hint: Not Vic, or Tim Graham.