Russ Brandon - Leaving Role as President of Bills & Sabres due to workplace behavior and allegations of personal misconduct

[colin]

Just now, teef said:

it can be a very fine line, which is why most places have just prohibited it all together.  sometimes it's the easiest way to avoid conflict.  

 

sure, but that's totally hypocritical on behalf of the pegula's, and the badge polishing going on here is laughable.

[TXBILLSFAN]

The issue is Russ.  He is a predator.  He is a harasser and he got caught.  Even Kirby, one of RB's biggest apologist admits to this.

 

All of you defenders trying to distract from this core argument by bringing up TP and KP is a joke.

 

Like a couple other posters have mentioned, he should have been dismissed due to being incompetent, but, either way, the toxin has been eradicated.

 

Pray for his victims and please, stop making excuses for him.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, colin said:

 

sure, but that's totally hypocritical on behalf of the pegula's, and the badge polishing going on here is laughable.

 

Howso?  He acted inappropriate at work, and had inappropriate work relationships (lets assume he did something wrong).  When confronted about it by his boss and likely HR, this was the end result - and they mentioned deceit as a reason why.  

[billsfan1959]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Get a grip on your Brandons. Constantly citing the wrong one makes you look like you aren’t informed and don’t know what you’re talking about. 

To be fair, I think there are plenty of other things in his posts that make him look uninformed and like he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Edited May 2, 2018 by billsfan1959

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

      I am rather amazed at how many people aren't getting this.   In any situation where an employee in a relationship can say they had to do it to keep their job, it puts a company at risk.  To avoid the risk, company's simply make it a policy for dismissal.

      Also, I think some here don't really understand what "at will" employer really means with regards to job security.

 

Just a note I was definitively corrected on the "at will" concept.  Russ Brandon almost certainly had an individualized contract of employment, which almost certainly contained provisions for termination for bad doings.

[BadLandsMeanie]

24 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

That's all well and good... but you don't really know the nature of KP & TPs relationship (IE they could have been dating before she started), or the nature of Brandon's indiscretions (he may have just had a consensual relationship with one person, or he could have done something completely different and inappropriate).  So it's a tad of a stretch and generalization.

Gee no. I was going by Kim's account. I didn't just make that stuff up.

14 minutes ago, TXBILLSFAN said:

The issue is Russ.  He is a predator.  He is a harasser and he got caught.  Even Kirby, one of RB's biggest apologist admits to this.

 

All of you defenders trying to distract from this core argument by bringing up TP and KP is a joke.

 

Like a couple other posters have mentioned, he should have been dismissed due to being incompetent, but, either way, the toxin has been eradicated.

 

Pray for his victims and please, stop making excuses for him.

I will indeed. But what victims? All we got is one supposed relationship here. What is the real story do you know?

[colin]

25 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

To be fair, I think there are plenty of other things in his posts that make him look uninformed and like he doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

Totally, right?  russ was a horrible monster, and any subordinate female is a wilting flower who is taken advantage of, except for Kim, who is a super excellent great president of a team, and terry p never slept w the help!

 

[edited by mod to remove political talk and personal insults]

Edited May 2, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, colin said:

sure, but that's totally hypocritical on behalf of the pegula's, and the badge polishing going on here is laughable.

 

I'm not sure what "badge polishing" means, but there used to be a saying that a former "player" (in the MF sense) makes the strictest parent.

 

IMO people are allowed to grow and to change their views and risk perception.  If I did something 20 years ago and stopped, doesn't make me a hypocrite if I forbid it today.

 

Example: let's say as a youth, you put a car on a tree, earned a DWI, no one hurt but you were out legal costs, higher insurance for years, and car repair.  You changed your ways.  Now you're the parent of a teenage boy and you've laid out clear rules for his use of your car.  He drives your car and arrives home from prom obviously drunk.  He's broken the rules you've laid out for him.  Are you a hypocrite if you take his car keys?  I would say "no", you're a hypocrite if you're still driving drunk yourself but even then, he broke clear rules.

 

 

[colin]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure what "badge polishing" means, but there used to be a saying that a former "player" (in the MF sense) makes the strictest parent.

 

IMO people are allowed to grow and to change their views and risk perception.  If I did something 20 years ago and stopped, doesn't make me a hypocrite if I forbid it today.

 

Example: let's say as a youth, you put a car on a tree, earned a DWI, no one hurt but you were out legal costs, higher insurance for years, and car repair.  You changed your ways.  Now you're the parent of a teenage boy and you've laid out clear rules for his use of your car.  He drives your car and arrives home from prom obviously drunk.  He's broken the rules you've laid out for him.  Are you a hypocrite if you take his car keys?  I would say "no", you're a hypocrite if you're still driving drunk yourself but even then, he broke clear rules.

 

they have stopped nothing.  kim is still the boss lady because of who she slept with, and maybe this girl who Russ was heroically sexing up wanted the same outcome for herself and future husband Russ!

 

Kim being the one to handle this situation is hypocritical, and if she wanted to no longer be the "other woman" who gets the keys to the castle, she should at least recuse herself on this matter.

 

up until about 30 minutes ago i figured russ was a azz kissing tool who just did a bad job and got away with it, but now i see him for the people's champion and persecuted hero that he is!

[BillsFan2313]

Russ Brandon be like

 

 

 

I am here celebrating like

 

 

 

[Koko78]

16 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

While I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion here, both because of Brandon's (some would say deserved) unpopularity amongst the fan base, and because of a rush by SJWs and those afraid to confront them, to assume the guilt of any man accused of misbehavior; before I celebrate steps towards the financial ruin of another human being, I'd like to hear/see the evidence, know how the investigation was conducted, and hear Brandon's side.

 

Until then I stand opposed, on principle.

 

I'd suspect the fact that he lied to Mr. and Mrs. Pegula was the final nail in the coffin. They don't come across as people who put up with liars running their business interests.

 

As for the 'other work-related issues', it will be interesting if it ever comes out. I wonder if he was skimming off the top.

[Rob's House]

4 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

I think you should walk away an dstake a long break.

 

Your posts are just tripe and pathetically stupid.

I disagree. I think the substance of his posts are reasonable. If they were patently unreasonable people would challenge his points instead of tossing insults.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, colin said:

 

they have stopped nothing.  kim is still the boss lady because of who she slept with, and maybe this girl who Russ was heroically sexing up wanted the same outcome for herself and future husband Russ!

 

Kim being the one to handle this situation is hypocritical, and if she wanted to no longer be the "other woman" who gets the keys to the castle, she should at least recuse herself on this matter.

 

up until about 30 minutes ago i figured russ was a azz kissing tool who just did a bad job and got away with it, but now i see him for the people's champion and persecuted hero that he is!

 

Well, we disagree on every point here (starting with what "stopped" means and moving on to "hypocritical), but there doesn't seem to be any ack'ing of points and the hyperbole indicates discussion is not likely possible.   So I'm out (speaking as a poster)

[TXBILLSFAN]

18 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Gee no. I was going by Kim's account. I didn't just make that stuff up.

I will indeed. But what victims? All we got is one supposed relationship here. What is the real story do you know?

 

Ask some of the ardent Brandon supporters to spill the beans, I wish they would instead of protecting him.

 

He didn't resign because of one consensual relationship.  The reporting has confirmed "multiple" and "issues" beyond the relationships.

 

If you want to say he had one consensual relationship and we can prove that, then I'm over-reacting, but, sorry, I'm not that naive.

 

[HappyDays]

39 minutes ago, colin said:

 

sure, but that's totally hypocritical on behalf of the pegula's, and the badge polishing going on here is laughable.

 

You obviously know the exact details of what Russ did, since you're throwing around comparisons. Why don't you share what you know?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

If that was all you were arguing, then I agree, 100%. However, in this thread, and other threads regarding this topic, your posts appear to go beyond the bounds of merely arguing for the presumption of innocence into rants about biological imperatives and third wave feminism / #MeToo  - as if (1) men have no ability to control their behavior due to biological underpinnings of human behavior and (2) every allegation of sexual misconduct is nothing more than the product of vengeful feminism. In the end, the tone of your posts sometimes makes you sound very similar to the fringe you are railing against.

Yeah, I can see how you might feel that way when someone tries to inject the sanity of the middle ground, which is the presumption of innocence (and yes, I understand this isn't a legal proceeding, and that the Pegula's have every right to force Brandon out of his role),  into a loud and robust chorus of "BURN THE WITCH!  BURN THE WITCH!"

 

This chorus, indulging when not fully embracing the beliefs of third wave feminists, is celebrating the firing of a man for what appears to be consensual sex with a co-worker.  If this is what is now being defined as sexual misconduct, then it should be argued against on moral grounds.  The Pegula's, nor any other employer, should feel empowered to dismiss anyone because of what consenting adults they choose to sleep with.  It's none of their damn business.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

 

they have stopped nothing.  kim is still the boss lady because of who she slept with, and maybe this girl who Russ was heroically sexing up wanted the same outcome for herself and future husband Russ!

 

Kim being the one to handle this situation is hypocritical, and if she wanted to no longer be the "other woman" who gets the keys to the castle, she should at least recuse herself on this matter.

 

up until about 30 minutes ago i figured russ was a azz kissing tool who just did a bad job and got away with it, but now i see him for the people's champion and persecuted hero that he is!

 

I love that you're defending him and you have no idea what he even did.  He could have made unwanted advances to someone (or multiple people), or his behavior could have caused some issues at work (making a scene in the office, or just inappropriate office behavior in general), or he could have just used inappropriate language for the office.  In the end they did an investigation, and when confronted - he basically told them he did nothing wrong.  

 

You just draw a parallel to a married couple who met prior to working together in like 1990 - and say that's somehow the same thing.  They could have you know, been transparent and openly dating.  

[ddaryl]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

I disagree. I think the substance of his posts are reasonable. If they were patently unreasonable people would challenge his points instead of tossing insults.

 

 

Nothing reasonable about them at all and they have nothing to do with football

 

its a personal politcal crusade move it to a different forum and keep this forum for football topics only. If people want to debate sexism in the work place this forum isnot hte place ever

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Yeah, I can see how you might feel that way when someone tries to inject the sanity of the middle ground, which is the presumption of innocence (and yes, I understand this isn't a legal proceeding, and that the Pegula's have every right to force Brandon out of his role),  into a loud and robust chorus of "BURN THE WITCH!  BURN THE WITCH!"

 

This chorus, indulging when not fully embracing the beliefs of third wave feminists, is celebrating the firing of a man for what appears to be consensual sex with a co-worker.  If this is what is now being defined as sexual misconduct, then it should be argued against on moral grounds.  The Pegula's, nor any other employer, should feel empowered to dismiss anyone because of what consenting adults they choose to sleep with.  It's none of their damn business.

 

What if he did it on company time, or worse - company dime?  

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, eball said:

 

No, what was pathetic was Russ the GM, Russ the snake oil salesman, and Russ the promoter of Whaley and Rex.  Only last season -- when Russ was finally and rightfully moved to the sidelines -- did the culture change.  I bought into the "Russ doesn't really make football decisions" line of thinking for a good while, until he screwed this franchise over for another two years with the Rex fiasco.  Good freaking riddance.

Brandon didn't make the Rex hire---the owner did. The same owner who made the McDermott hire. Did Brandon go along with it and make some fawning comments associated with the hire? Yes he did. So what? He was the subordinate who had no authority in the selection. There is a demonization of Brandon that is way out of proportion to his influence in the football operation. Russ Brandon is very influential in the business side of the operation. And he is good at what he does. He has not been involved in the football operation for years. And when he was involved it was because the owner with failing health thrust those responsibilities on him. 

 

The Bills have been bad for a long time because of a lot of bad decisions by their owners. Russ Brandon is not the bogeyman that many are making him out to be. 

[teef]

40 minutes ago, colin said:

 

sure, but that's totally hypocritical on behalf of the pegula's, and the badge polishing going on here is laughable.

i obviously don't know the specifics of what russ was accused of, but i have a feeling it's far worse that just consensual dating in the work place.  it's an assumption on my part, but there was something that a blind eye couldn't be turned to.  

[Rob's House]

2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Yeah, I can see how you might feel that way when someone tries to inject the sanity of the middle ground, which is the presumption of innocence (and yes, I understand this isn't a legal proceeding, and that the Pegula's have every right to force Brandon out of his role),  into a loud and robust chorus of "BURN THE WITCH!  BURN THE WITCH!"

 

This chorus, indulging when not fully embracing the beliefs of third wave feminists, is celebrating the firing of a man for what appears to be consensual sex with a co-worker.  If this is what is now being defined as sexual misconduct, then it should be argued against on moral grounds.  The Pegula's, nor any other employer, should feel empowered to dismiss anyone because of what consenting adults they choose to sleep with.  It's none of their damn business.

If he got fired because they learned he slept with men I'm guessing some here would have to reevaluate their free market view of at will employment. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

5 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

What if he did it on company time, or worse - company dime?  

 

As I've said here many times, I am open to the possibility that Russ Brandon is a serial abuser and is guilty of grossly inappropriate conduct at work, which would justify him being forced out.  I truly am.

 

If that's what happened, it would be justified.

 

My point here, is that we don't know, and yet there is a rush to vilify. 

[colin]

The inside scoop:

 

Russ is just an olde tyme romantic, just like Terry P, and his passion and huge heart was taken advantage of.  Kim and terry are jealous of him for having a newer fresher version of their story, so they removed him!

 

also, all of Russ's horrible horrible decisions and hires were someone else's fault.  Prolly.

[Rockpile233]

9 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Yeah, I can see how you might feel that way when someone tries to inject the sanity of the middle ground, which is the presumption of innocence (and yes, I understand this isn't a legal proceeding, and that the Pegula's have every right to force Brandon out of his role),  into a loud and robust chorus of "BURN THE WITCH!  BURN THE WITCH!"

 

This chorus, indulging when not fully embracing the beliefs of third wave feminists, is celebrating the firing of a man for what appears to be consensual sex with a co-worker.  If this is what is now being defined as sexual misconduct, then it should be argued against on moral grounds.  The Pegula's, nor any other employer, should feel empowered to dismiss anyone because of what consenting adults they choose to sleep with.  It's none of their damn business.

 

Interoffice relationships are against my companies code of conduct. Now I know of no situation where this has ever been enforced, but I am conscious of the potential consequences.

 

I don’t know PSE’s code of conduct, but my point is that it’s very much the coroporations business if they want it to be. If you want to fool around at work or with people you work with, know the potential consequences and live with them if they bite you.

 

 

 

[TXBILLSFAN]

2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

As I've said here many times, I am open to the possibility that Russ Brandon is a serial abuser and is guilty of grossly inappropriate conduct at work, which would justify him being forced out.  I truly am.

 

If that's what happened, it would be justified.

 

My point here, is that we don't know, and yet there is a rush to vilify. 

 

We don't know definitively, but ardent RB supporters have essentially confirmed he's a bad guy and there is no way he is forced to resign for one consensual relationship.  Extrapolation seems fair in this case.  He is a predator and deserves no admiration

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

If he got fired because they learned he slept with men I'm guessing some here would have to reevaluate their free market view of at will employment. 

 

If he got fired because he slept with men generically, or because he slept with a man or men employed as his subordinates?

The relevant comparator is the latter, and I doubt it (though of course, I wouldn't rule it out with "some")

 

The "at will employment" has been corrected.  Russ Brandon almost certainly had a contract, and it almost certainly contained clauses for behavior.

[eball]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Brandon didn't make the Rex hire---the owner did. The same owner who made the McDermott hire. Did Brandon go along with it and make some fawning comments associated with the hire? Yes he did. So what? He was the subordinate who had no authority in the selection. There is a demonization of Brandon that is way out of proportion to his influence in the football operation. Russ Brandon is very influential in the business side of the operation. And he is good at what he does. He has not been involved in the football operation for years. And when he was involved it was because the owner with failing health thrust those responsibilities on him. 

 

The Bills have been bad for a long time because of a lot of bad decisions by their owners. Russ Brandon is not the bogeyman that many are making him out to be. 

 

The Pegulas -- newbies in the franchise-owning business -- have leaned heavily on Russ since the whole process of buying the Bills began.  No, Russ didn't personally "hire" Rex, but he uttered the infamous words "don't let him leave the building" and was obviously pushing Pegs to make the hire.

 

I don't absolve the Pegulas from blame for some of the questionable decisions they have made with both the Bills and Sabres, but it is a breath of fresh air knowing Russ is out of the picture.

Edited May 2, 2018 by eball

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

As I've said here many times, I am open to the possibility that Russ Brandon is a serial abuser and is guilty of grossly inappropriate conduct at work, which would justify him being forced out.  I truly am.

 

If that's what happened, it would be justified.

 

My point here, is that we don't know, and yet there is a rush to vilify. 

 

I'm personally glad he's gone because of BOTH team's general lack of success during his tenure.  People get fired all the time for less, and they may have been looking for a reason to get out of his contract - hence the investigation (purely speculation)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, TXBILLSFAN said:

We don't know definitively, but ardent RB supporters have essentially confirmed he's a bad guy and there is no way he is forced to resign for one consensual relationship.  Extrapolation seems fair in this case.  He is a predator and deserves no admiration

 

Just a note that in the corporations I'm aware of, for an executive to have one consensual relationship with one subordinate would indeed be grounds for termination under their terms of employment.  The reason, as previously noted, would be that an assymmetrical power relationship is held to cloud consent (from a legal POV).  That's why companies explicitly prohibit this and provide their "people managers" training saying "don't do this, here's why"

 

I have no information as to the quantity or quality of RB's misbehavior or whether he is a predator.

[stevewin]

13 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 If you're a female that has gone out downtown, you have a 87% chance of being molested by Russ Brandon.

Analytics?

[May Day 10]

Im sure if it was two people courting one another and he bought someone flowers, it would have probably been permissible.  Being married with kids, and also a repeat-offender shows that this likely wasnt the case.  He also lied to the owners of the team.  

[TakeYouToTasker]

5 minutes ago, Rockpile233 said:

 

Interoffice relationships are against my companies code of conduct. Now I know of no situation where this has ever been enforced, but I am conscious of the potential consequences.

 

I don’t know PSE’s code of conduct, but my point is that it’s very much the coroporations business if they want it to be. If you want to fool around at work or with people you work with, know the potential consequences and live with them if they bite you.

 

I understand the standard, I'm saying that the standard is wrong.

 

As I said upthread:  I reject a guiding philosophy under which businesses get to dictate how people should behave in their personal lives based on how willing others are to sue them, and the hands-in-pockets, strangely humanist-yet-Puritanical, untrusting outcomes all of this dictates.

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

That's all well and good... but you don't really know the nature of KP & TPs relationship (IE they could have been dating before she started), or the nature of Brandon's indiscretions (he may have just had a consensual relationship with one person, or he could have done something completely different and inappropriate).  So it's a tad of a stretch and generalization.

 

Seriously - leave the Pegulas' marriage out of this.  It has no place in this discussion. 

 

And, frankly, even if there was a workplace indiscretion in that relationship, it doesn't matter here.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  The Pegulas make the rules in their (private sector) businesses, and one of the rules apparently is that the company president shouldn't engage in a sexual relationship with a subordinate or subordinates.  Another rule is don't lie to the boss.  Various reports suggest that both of those rules were broken, and for those reasons (and perhaps more) Russ is out.  As he should be.  

 

Terry and Kim -- or Bob and Mindy Rich or any other couple that owns a business together -- have nothing to do with this.  I get that they're public figures, and commentary on the aptitude (or lack thereof) as professional sports owners is fair game.  But their personal lives are not relevant to this discussion.  

[TXBILLSFAN]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just a note that in the corporations I'm aware of, for an executive to have one consensual relationship with one subordinate would indeed be grounds for termination under their terms of employment.  The reason, as previously noted, would be that an assymmetrical power relationship is held to cloud consent (from a legal POV).  That's why companies explicitly prohibit this and provide their "people managers" training saying "don't do this, here's why"

 

I have no information as to the quantity or quality of RB's misbehavior or whether he is a predator.

 

No doubt, there is and should be zero tolerance regardless of company.

 

But, let's not put our heads in the sand here because there isn't several videos or a parade of women coming forward, where there is smoke there is fire and many on this board, including Russ apologist Kirby Jackson have all but admitted as much.  And let's not forget the reporting has said more than just inappropriate relationships, this could get into embezzlement or some other business crime.  Again, no proof, but a lot of smoke

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...sadly at the end of the day, his wife and children are victims as well those in the work place..........

[Lurker]

31 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is a demonization of Brandon that is way out of proportion to his influence in the football operation. Russ Brandon is very influential in the business side of the operation. And he is good at what he does. He has not been involved in the football operation for years. And when he was involved it was because the owner with failing health thrust those responsibilities on him. 

 

The Bills have been bad for a long time because of a lot of bad decisions by their owners. Russ Brandon is not the bogeyman that many are making him out to be. 

 

Agree 100%.  

 

Which makes it doubly amazing that so many posters continue to fart out "it's Brandon's fault that the Bills have stunk" and expect anyone to take them seriously about anything else...

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Lurker

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The Pegulas -- newbies in the franchise-owning business -- have leaned heavily on Russ since the whole process of buying the Bills began.  No, Russ didn't personally "hire" Rex, but he uttered the infamous words "don't let him leave the building" and was obviously pushing Pegs to make the hire.

 

I don't absolve the Pegulas for some of the questionable decisions they have made with both the Bills and Sabres, but it is a breath of fresh air knowing Russ is out of the picture.

The uttering of those words associated with Brandon in the hiring of Rex are given more weight than they deserve. The owner was foolishly captivated by Rex. The owner wanted to give a boring and colorless franchise some identity. It was a dumb decision by a new owner who was out of his depth. If you recall you were also enthused with the hire. (I'm not criticizing you because many people were excited with the hire.) 

 

As you noted Pegula was new to the business. And it was demonstrated by his hiring decisions. On the positive side it appears that he has learned from his mistakes. But as the McDermott hire also illustrates is that it is the owner who makes the big hires based on what he wants to do  and not because of the people who are at his side. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

18 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I'm personally glad he's gone because of BOTH team's general lack of success during his tenure.  People get fired all the time for less, and they may have been looking for a reason to get out of his contract - hence the investigation (purely speculation)

 

Again, I don't mind that Brandon is gone.  While I think he did an absolutely outstanding job keeping the team profitable towards the end of the Ralph years, and is a major reason the team is still in Buffalo; I think his value has declined, and that it may have been time to move on from him.  And that's fine.  And it entirely the Pegula's right as employers.

 

However, if what you speculate is accurate, that would be an objectively awful thing for an employer to do:  to seek to scandal out an employee who became inconvenient to the ambitions of the wife of the owner.

 

Important to note:  I'm not saying that's what happened.  I recognize you aren't saying that's what happened.  What I'm saying is that sort of thing should be viewed as absolutely unacceptable behavior by an employer.

Edited May 2, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[stevewin]

13 hours ago, Nitro said:

Russ was hated and now the whipping boy is gone.  Who is next for the fans to pillory?