Tyrod Taylor turning heads in Cleveland.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Kirby, I say this with kindness: Let it go! Taylor plays for the Browns and the past is the past. 

 

 

I didn’t start the conversation. I just don’t like when people lie so i check them. If you tell me turnovers and punts are the same I will call you out. If you say that the turnover battle doesn’t matter I will say that 78% of the teams that win the turnover battle win the game. If you don’t want me to chime in, don’t lie.

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

He's definitely not "Tannehill" or "Dalton". Those are mid-level legitimate starting QBs, Dalton more than Tannehill. They can actually "win" you a game or two with a big throw. Taylor can't, hasn't or won't.

 

All you have to do is go and look at a certain 4th & 12 play in Baltimore from last season to see the difference.  

 

 

Interesting that you bring up JP.... in his only full season as a starter, his numbers looked awfully familiar: 3051 yards, 19 TDs, 190 yds/gm... of course, there were 14 INTs, too. 

 

Taylor's been ~3000 yds/season, ~20 TDs, 201.3 yds/gm..... ~6 INTs/season.

 

Really, the only thing separating Taylor & Losman is 8 INTs, or .5 INTs/gm. 

 

Of course, Tyrod is obviously a better QB than JPL... but he's definitely closer to JP Losman than he is to Andy Dalton. 

 

(By the way, EJ averaged 197.2 yds/gm as a rookie... just saying.)

 

Which ones?

His numbers are better than Tannehill as is his record. So you are definitely wrong (again). 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

He's definitely not "Tannehill" or "Dalton". Those are mid-level legitimate starting QBs, Dalton more than Tannehill. They can actually "win" you a game or two with a big throw. Taylor can't, hasn't or won't.

 

All you have to do is go and look at a certain 4th & 12 play in Baltimore from last season to see the difference.  

 

 

Interesting that you bring up JP.... in his only full season as a starter, his numbers looked awfully familiar: 3051 yards, 19 TDs, 190 yds/gm... of course, there were 14 INTs, too. 

 

Taylor's been ~3000 yds/season, ~20 TDs, 201.3 yds/gm..... ~6 INTs/season.

 

Really, the only thing separating Taylor & Losman is 8 INTs, or .5 INTs/gm. 

 

Of course, Tyrod is obviously a better QB than JPL... but he's definitely closer to JP Losman than he is to Andy Dalton. 

 

(By the way, EJ averaged 197.2 yds/gm as a rookie... just saying.)

 

Which ones?

 

He actually averaged 17 TDs (20, 17, 14 respective in that order) per season.

So you actually gave him more benefit of the doubt

I agree with the rest, he not Tanny or Dalton level.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

"  umm didn't he see the wide open receiver "   

 

Jp to evans was sure nice . It is a shame he didn;'t develop .  Both Jp and E.j had the skill set but were missing something .  Taylor is in my mind a great athlete playing qb.  He doesn't think like a qb.  He simply will not throw the ball unless a wide receiver is clearly open or running a deep route .  

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

So...I just now watched the play in question. 

 

I question your depiction of it. Post-corner route that broke open; throw was clearly too far to the inside shoulder, although the WR definitely could have hauled it in. If Jones does make the catch, there's no way he scores, given the adjustment and full extension entailed. They had a timeout remaining, so it would have been 1st and 10 at the 2 yard line +/-, maybe 7 or 8 seconds remaining. 

I will admit to thinking the Miami game you're referencing, combined with the Seattle game, was evidence that Taylor had taken an important step forward. 

 

In hindsight, it looks more like he peaked right around then.

 

A LOT changed between the end of 2016 and the start of 2017..........total scheme change to an unfavorable timing offense........entire WR corps was turned over and replaced with much lesser talent........offensive strategy(play not to lose).

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

You've got to be kidding me. 

 

You clearly have absolutely no concept or understanding of what "floor" and "average" mean. 

 

Taylor has played in 44 games as the starting QB of the Bills.

 

30 of them have been under 230 yards passing. In fact, over 50% of his games as a starter have been under 200 yards passing. To expect 250 ypg from the guy is pure fantasy with a heavy dollop of delusion. You're far more likely to get 180 or less. 

 

A very smart, articulate, and enlightened poster once posted a breakdown of TT's career production. You should go take a look. 

 

 

You clearly have no concept of what I meant by floor either. And since I introduced it, your attempt to define it is irrelevant. 

 

Floor to me is what you can expect from the player (Tyrod) as your qb typically. 

 

you choose to define his worst games as who he is. I chose to define his average as who he is. 

 

Tyrod is a fairly consistent game manager that is among the best 32 QBs in the NFL. He struggles as a pure pocket progression read passer, makes some occasionally incredible plays and can make most of the throws, just not with anticipation. He’s not great, no one accused him of that.  The narrative he is ‘terrible’ is garbage. He has won more games than he has lost as a starter-  Fact. And you can build a scheme and have personnel to maximize his strengths, which was done much more by Lynn than Rico. 

 

It’s irrational and I really can’t understand why a few have so much disdain for a guy who overachieved significantly. Why not just say thanks for the contribution to breaking the playoff drought whatever you want to believe that was and move on?   

 

The bills are choosing to upgrade, which everyone seem in favor of. But AJM could easily end up worse, as could every QB drafted next week...  and that is what I mean by FLOOR. 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

You clearly have no concept of what I meant by floor either. And since I introduced it, your attempt to define it is irrelevant. 

 

Floor to me is what you can expect from the player (Tyrod) as your qb typically. 

 

you choose to define his worst games as who he is. I chose to define his average as who he is. 

 

Tyrod is a fairly consistent game manager that is among the best 32 QBs in the NFL. He struggles as a pure pocket progression read passer, makes some occasionally incredible plays and can make most of the throws, just not with anticipation. He’s not great, no one accused him of that.  The narrative he is ‘terrible’ is garbage. He has won more games than he has lost as a starter-  Fact. And you can build a scheme and have personnel to maximize his strengths, which was done much more by Lynn than Rico. 

 

It’s irrational and I really can’t understand why a few have so much disdain for a guy who overachieved significantly. Why not just say thanks for the contribution to breaking the playoff drought whatever you want to believe that was and move on?   

 

The bills are choosing to upgrade, which everyone seem in favor of. But AJM could easily end up worse, as could every QB drafted next week...  and that is what I mean by FLOOR. 

I am not sure if A.j can be worse. Taylor is very limited.   The team basically one without a qb.  They had a guy back there who didn't turn the ball over and made the easy throws.   oh sure he scrambled but usually after missing his window to throw the freaking ball 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

should I be offended here. some dick on a message board calling me out. you're a real kind of special, I mean short bus special.

 

have a nice day, dick

 

You should be embarrassed for that gawd-awful take is what you should be.......you were so sold on Nate Peterman that you didn't think he might get replaced?

 

Or just that irrationally hateful of Taylor?  

 

That indicated a real lack of intelligence on your part and you should have just avoided the Taylor/Peterman subject thereafter.......like I said, even the most passionate Peterphiles/Tyrophobes weren't jumping in to shoot down the notion that Nay Pete might get a quick hook.

 

Again.......dude didn't even make it past HALFTIME of his first start.......you could not have been more wrong.   Eat it and own it and take your medicine or I will make it a point to keep reminding you.   

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

You can keep holding on to the great stats for the worst passing offense 3 years running.   

 

I’m not fooled.  

 

Don't let facts get in the way.

[Success]

I’m glad we moved on, but he may be just what the Browns need.

 

I’ll be a Taylor fan wherever he goes, as long as his success doesn’t affect the Bills.  All he ever did here was work hard, and like a long line of qb’s here, was never given a great chance to succeed.

[NickelCity]

3 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

I am not sure if A.j can be worse. Taylor is very limited.

 

You're not sure? Heck, most Bills QBs in the past 20 years have been worse. It's quite possible. FWIW, I loved the Tyrod to Browns trade and am happy we're trying to upgrade.

[John from Riverside]

I think what you saw in the end is that TT was not "scheme diverse"

 

I believe to this day that if you biult the offense around him he could help you win games.....the bills were no longer willing to do that....getting a 3rd round pick for him was awesome.

 

Josh Rosen.....scheme diverse accurate qb

 

Lamar Jackson.....while a great athlete like TT he is NOT TT.....and throws from the pocket.....but where people ARE correct is that much like TT....you need to biuld a certain offense around him if you want to get the most out of him...he is not a bad option if we strike out on Rosen.

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I didn’t start the conversation. I just don’t like when people lie so i check them. If you tell me turnovers and punts are the same I will call you out. If you say that the turnover battle doesn’t matter I will say that 78% of the teams that win the turnover battle win the game. If you don’t want me to chime in, don’t lie.

His numbers are better than Tannehill as is his record. So you are definitely wrong (again). 

No they are not.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, PeterGriffin said:

No they are not.

It depends what you like. If passing yards is your thing then no. If you like any yards, TDs and less INTs combined with a better record than he is. Troll on though bro....

 

Also, you and I had a bet that if Tyrod Taylor made $10M this year you wouldn’t post here anymore so bye...

[nedboy7]

On 4/19/2018 at 3:42 PM, No Place To Hyde said:

Leadership. Work ethic. Being well dressed (or so they say). 

 

Literally all he brings to the table. Eventually they will actually play football. They will see he doesn't move an offense. Holds the ball too long. Plays way too conservative. And they will yell and scream to play the rookie.

 

Lol. The guy took your bills to the playoffs. Hate away. 

[PrimeTime101]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Afraid not, I have stated many times that Tyrod did not get the job done despite inferior tools.

to bad the majority dissagree

[Teddy KGB]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think what you saw in the end is that TT was not "scheme diverse"

 

The scheme of passing footballs while employed as a pro qb was too diverse.  

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

 

The scheme of passing footballs while employed as a pro qb was too diverse.  

Ryan its ok buddy....he is gone.  You can let go of the hate now.

[twoandfourteen]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

You clearly have no concept of what I meant by floor either. And since I introduced it, your attempt to define it is irrelevant. 

 

Floor to me is what you can expect from the player (Tyrod) as your qb typically. 

 

you choose to define his worst games as who he is. I chose to define his average as who he is. 

 

Tyrod is a fairly consistent game manager that is among the best 32 QBs in the NFL. He struggles as a pure pocket progression read passer, makes some occasionally incredible plays and can make most of the throws, just not with anticipation. He’s not great, no one accused him of that.  The narrative he is ‘terrible’ is garbage. He has won more games than he has lost as a starter-  Fact. And you can build a scheme and have personnel to maximize his strengths, which was done much more by Lynn than Rico. 

 

It’s irrational and I really can’t understand why a few have so much disdain for a guy who overachieved significantly. Why not just say thanks for the contribution to breaking the playoff drought whatever you want to believe that was and move on?   

 

The bills are choosing to upgrade, which everyone seem in favor of. But AJM could easily end up worse, as could every QB drafted next week...  and that is what I mean by FLOOR. 

 

Wrong again. You said "250 yds per game" as his floor, did you not?

 

Tyrod's "floor" (the minimum you could safely expect on any given gameday) is somewhere 160-180 yds passing, 20-15 yds rushing, and 1 TD total. Most games he'll give you better than that, sometimes he'll be worse or much worse. 

 

His "ceiling", or the absolute best you could reasonably expect from him is around 285-295 yds passing, 40-45 yds rushing, and 2-3 TDs. Not exactly earth shattering at his very best. 

 

"Average" is not the same as "floor". 

 

I agree -- his average is basically who he is. But that's not the same as his floor. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

39 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Wrong again. You said "250 yds per game" as his floor, did you not?

 

Tyrod's "floor" (the minimum you could safely expect on any given gameday) is somewhere 160-180 yds passing, 20-15 yds rushing, and 1 TD total. Most games he'll give you better than that, sometimes he'll be worse or much worse. 

 

His "ceiling", or the absolute best you could reasonably expect from him is around 285-295 yds passing, 40-45 yds rushing, and 2-3 TDs. Not exactly earth shattering at his very best. 

 

"Average" is not the same as "floor". 

 

I agree -- his average is basically who he is. But that's not the same as his floor. 

 

I know what I said. I don’t care if you can’t figure it out.  

[Bing Bong]

On 4/19/2018 at 4:41 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

No surprise, Tyrod is a good leader and a hard worker.

Dang Kirby, 40 likes on that post? I'd like but you getting greedy

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Ryan its ok buddy....he is gone.  You can let go of the hate now.

 

What is it with these folks? It’s like he kicked their puppy or something 

[Bing Bong]

On 4/19/2018 at 4:42 PM, No Place To Hyde said:

Leadership. Work ethic. Being well dressed (or so they say). 

 

Literally all he brings to the table. Eventually they will actually play football. They will see he doesn't move an offense. Holds the ball too long. Plays way too conservative. And they will yell and scream to play the rookie.

Plays conservative until he sees Gordon wide open for bombs all season

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I have said TT will give them 5 times more wins. 

 

But then thinking about it.    

5 x 0 is zero.   

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You should be embarrassed for that gawd-awful take is what you should be.......you were so sold on Nate Peterman that you didn't think he might get replaced?

 

Or just that irrationally hateful of Taylor?  

 

That indicated a real lack of intelligence on your part and you should have just avoided the Taylor/Peterman subject thereafter.......like I said, even the most passionate Peterphiles/Tyrophobes weren't jumping in to shoot down the notion that Nay Pete might get a quick hook.

 

Again.......dude didn't even make it past HALFTIME of his first start.......you could not have been more wrong.   Eat it and own it and take your medicine or I will make it a point to keep reminding you.   

 

 

first of all, at the time I was hoping the kid would do well which in turn would mean the team does well, he didn't, I've moved on and could care less about it now. you apparently haven't and still cling to the past as a way to come back and try and insult me. so much more in life to value then what you may think of me, some nobody on a football forum. this joint is full of opinions, hot/cold takes that come and go and can be taken with a grain of salt, yours are no different.

 

 

[Bing Bong]

On 4/19/2018 at 5:18 PM, BobChalmers said:

If only he could LEAD A PASS to one of his RECEIVERS!! 

Pretty sure Gordon can make a bad pass look like a great lead for YAC

[BuffaloBillyG]

48 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Plays conservative until he sees Gordon wide open for bombs all season

*Until week 3 when Gordon is suspended again.

[Bing Bong]

2 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

*Until week 3 when Gordon is suspended again.

I hope not, Gordon had one of the most entertaining seasons I've seen from a receiver.

[The Red King]

7 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Lol. The guy took your bills to the playoffs. Hate away. 

 

I hate this statement.  I shake my head every time I heard it.  He didn't take us to the playoffs.  Shady and the D did.  TT was part of it, but just because he was on the first Bills team to make the playoffs in the 21st century does not automatically mean he took us there.  By extension, you are literally saying that every single starter...offense, defense and special teams...are playoff caliber players because they were on the first Bills team to make it in eighteen years.  Please, please don't tell me you're saying that.  By that logic, Colton Schmidt took us to the playoffs.  Jordan Matthews took us to the playoffs.  Charles Clay took us to the playoffs.

 

Argue for or against TT.  Support him if you'd like.  We're all entitled to our opinions.  But please don't only use the fact the TT was on a playoff team as evidence that he is a playoff-caliber QB, or that he was the reason they made the playoffs.  Logic doesn't work that way.

[transplantbillsfan]

Ya know... I was just thinking today about where the hell a few posters on this board went since Tyrod left the building. 

 

Guess I should have figured they'd be here.

 

I think everyone knows exactly who these posters are.

 

Move on with your lives fellas. I know you feel like you aren't being your true self if you aren't bitching and moaning... but good grief, Taylor isn't a Bill anymore and we're less than a week away from drafting our future Franchise QB.

 

It says a lot about you that you're pissing and moaning about the past rather than excitedly looking forward.

 

This Tyrod obsession is sad. 

[twoandfourteen]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I know what I said. I don’t care if you can’t figure it out.  

 

As long as you know you're wrong, then my work here is done. 

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I have said TT will give them 5 times more wins. 

 

But then thinking about it.    

5 x 0 is zero.   

 

5 is not 5 times more wins than 0 wins.

 

And I suck at math.

 

I think next year will be entertaining because some of you clearly just haven't been able to let go. I wish Taylor well, but not at the expense of our team. If he sucks and the Browns suck next year, a couple of the posters in this thread will continue the obsession.

 

No Taylor threads for me ever again. Dude's not my Quarterback anymore. If any of you are true Bills fans... move on.

[John from Riverside]

22 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Ya know... I was just thinking today about where the hell a few posters on this board went since Tyrod left the building. 

 

Guess I should have figured they'd be here.

 

I think everyone knows exactly who these posters are.

 

Move on with your lives fellas. I know you feel like you aren't being your true self if you aren't bitching and moaning... but good grief, Taylor isn't a Bill anymore and we're less than a week away from drafting our future Franchise QB.

 

It says a lot about you that you're pissing and moaning about the past rather than excitedly looking forward.

 

This Tyrod obsession is sad. 

It moved to lamenting the thought of drafting Lamar Jackson....cuz you know they are the exact same player

 

Even though they arent

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

14 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I have said TT will give them 5 times more wins. 

 

But then thinking about it.    

5 x 0 is zero.   

 

5 is not 5 times more wins than 0 wins.

 

And I suck at math.

And you suck at reading jokes.  

 

I said TT will help get them at least 5 wins.  That is a compliment.  

 

If you doubt me, please read the tread from the start again and you will see what I wrote.  

 

 

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This Tyrod obsession is sad.

It cut both ways.   

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

And you suck at reading jokes. 

 

I said TT will help get them at least 5 wins.  That is a compliment.  

 

If you doubt me, please read the tread from the start again and you will see what I wrote.  

 

That was a joke? Failing basic math was a joke?

 

Okay then

 

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

It cut both ways.   

 

Past tense? If you want to argue that, sure...

 

But I'm not the one in here talking about him... or one of the folks who seemingly disappeared from the message board once Taylor was traded.

 

But now it only cuts one way... have fun talking about the past, folks!

[nedboy7]

13 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

I hate this statement.  I shake my head every time I heard it.  He didn't take us to the playoffs.  Shady and the D did.  TT was part of it, but just because he was on the first Bills team to make the playoffs in the 21st century does not automatically mean he took us there.  By extension, you are literally saying that every single starter...offense, defense and special teams...are playoff caliber players because they were on the first Bills team to make it in eighteen years.  Please, please don't tell me you're saying that.  By that logic, Colton Schmidt took us to the playoffs.  Jordan Matthews took us to the playoffs.  Charles Clay took us to the playoffs.

 

Argue for or against TT.  Support him if you'd like.  We're all entitled to our opinions.  But please don't only use the fact the TT was on a playoff team as evidence that he is a playoff-caliber QB, or that he was the reason they made the playoffs.  Logic doesn't work that way.

 

He played the most important position right? That’s why the whole frencheyes insanity on here.  He did enough to get them there. Mainly he didn’t make stupid mistakes. The whole team liked him and was behind him.  He is not a top notch QB. But he certainly didn’t deserve the hate he got.  See how logic works?  

[Teddy KGB]

22 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

He played the most important position right? That’s why the whole frencheyes insanity on here.  He did enough to get them there. Mainly he didn’t make stupid mistakes. The whole team liked him and was behind him.  He is not a top notch QB. But he certainly didn’t deserve the hate he got.  See how logic works?  

 

31st > 32nd at least.  ?

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing

[The Red King]

29 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

He played the most important position right? That’s why the whole frencheyes insanity on here.  He did enough to get them there. Mainly he didn’t make stupid mistakes. The whole team liked him and was behind him.  He is not a top notch QB. But he certainly didn’t deserve the hate he got.  See how logic works?  

 

Where did I say I hated him?  Reread my replies in this thread.  He is the baseline for average and was a good fit for the team until they finally outgrew him last season.  I'm grateful to him for his contributions to the team, but the Bills finally need more out of the QB position then he can provide.  I have stated I think the trade will work out for the best for both teams and TT.  I've also noted that I think he will do good things for Cleveland.  Just because I don't think he is a playoff calibur QB does not mean I hate the guy.

 

...and by your logic Dilfer is an elite QB, because he was the QB of a Super Bowl Champion.  Same with Foles.  Again, logic doesn't work that way.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

49 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

That was a joke? Failing basic math was a joke?

 

Okay then

 

 

Past tense? If you want to argue that, sure...

 

But I'm not the one in here talking about him... or one of the folks who seemingly disappeared from the message board once Taylor was traded.

 

But now it only cuts one way... have fun talking about the past, folks!

Yes, Tyrod apologists it was a joke.  It’s not my fault you failed to see it.  

 

The Tyrod love / hate cuts both ways.  

 

I hope you enjoyed your Alternate truth.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

first of all, at the time I was hoping the kid would do well which in turn would mean the team does well, he didn't, I've moved on and could care less about it now. you apparently haven't and still cling to the past as a way to come back and try and insult me. so much more in life to value then what you may think of me, some nobody on a football forum. this joint is full of opinions, hot/cold takes that come and go and can be taken with a grain of salt, yours are no different.

 

 

 

 

So you had a ridiculously ****ty take and now want to point on that there is more to life than takes?   Well no ****!

 

There is also a point where you just don't say stupid **** on here in the first place.   That was one of those points.    Just helping educate you on how a message board works.  

 

This board is about entertainment.......just like the game we watch is supposed to be.........and I find it entertaining that you were prancing like a fancy boy in this thread and now you are getting all upset and philosophical.   U mad bro'?     

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

 

He played the most important position right? That’s why the whole frencheyes insanity on here.  He did enough to get them there. Mainly he didn’t make stupid mistakes. The whole team liked him and was behind him.  He is not a top notch QB. But he certainly didn’t deserve the hate he got.  See how logic works?  

 

QBs  are like presidents. When things go welll, they get all the credit. When they go bad, he gets all the blame.  That's why they make the big bucks.