MJS Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Buff76ers said: We does everyone hate the idea of Josh Allen to Buffalo, but all these experts think differently. There is a reason he could go number, but I can’t see what all the hate is for? He sucks. That's the main reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Inconsistent thrower, didn't dominate low level competition; pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Because he misses stationary target nets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 A great QB coach might see Allen as fixable after 2 seasons of tutoring and behind a good QB to mentor him. Giants would be his best spot just not at #2. He would not get that kind of coaching in Buffalo . jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 9 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: I see you have yet to respond to my post, responding to your post, where you said, "if he's so good then he would've made the players around him draft-able," to which I responded that he, in fact, had no less than FOUR teammates from 2016 in the NFL last season- three of whom never sniff the NFL if Josh Allen doesn't show up in 2016 (Tanner Gentry, Jacob Hollister and Chase Roullier). I'll hang up and listen. People who say that Josh Allen "stunk in college." For at least the 30th time, HE WAS VERY GOOD IN 2016. No animosity intended. In all seriousness, check out the thread I started re: Allen to read more about him. yeah I really do not care what anyone thinks in this regards. I sure am not going to waste precious time debating with someone else who has made up their mind either. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I don't know much about him but for find his criticisms unfair. If the story is true that his receiving talent has regressed this past season then I don't want to fault him for using a cannon arm against mountain conference receivers. And when ppl say it's not like the DBs on the other side in the mountain conference aren't the best ever too, I don't think that really matters If they are better players against Wyoming receivers, then the mismatch still means he probably didn't get the separation he wanted regardless of the secondary talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Because... JP Losman 2.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ddaryl said: yeah I really do not care what anyone thinks in this regards. I sure am not going to waste precious time debating with someone else who has made up their mind either. I disagree What do you disagree about? You said that if he was so good, he would have made guys around him draft-able. After his 2016 season, two of the guys around him got drafted, two more stuck on NFL rosters and played all season, and a fifth was eventually cut by the Saints. All of them offensive players, mind you. In no universe would FIVE players from a 2-10 team (their record prior to Allen arriving in 2016) have been on NFL rosters last year. So, like, I have checkmated you. This isn't a matter of opinion or something you can agree or disagree about. This is like me trying to tell you that Albany is the capital of New York, you trying to say it's Depew and then telling me it's just my opinion and you don't have time to debate me. It's OK for you to admit that I am right and you are wrong. Even Jerry would acknowledge I am right in this instance. Edited April 20, 2018 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Logic said: By "between the ears", I was not referring to his coachability or likability. Everyone says he's a coach's dream and I have no reason not to believe that. His mental processing, ability to anticipate receivers coming open, and his lack of willingness to throw with anticipation into tight windows are what scare me. Brain stuff. At the end of the day, the following graphic is deeply discouraging to me: I just don't see him suddenly completing >60% of his passes just because he's surrounded by better talent. I'm sure you've read the recent article suggesting that a player's statistical college production is more likely to represent his ceiling than his floor. That's my fear. That Allen's ceiling is about a 58% completion rate. No amount of Jordan Palmer offseason footwork drills are getting me to buy in to the idea that Allen will vastly improve on those numbers, and those numbers aren't NFL caliber. Once the splits on his pass attempts start to resemble more of what you see in the NFL, I'd bet he's able to hit 60%. Hell, he might hit 60% just by playing behind a better O-Line. If you split up his numbers between under pressure vs. kept clean and then weight it as if he was kept clean as often as Mason Rudolph, Rosen is around 61%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 He's inaccurate. That's it. I would love him in Buffalo but he scares the crap out of me with his accuracy. I hope he does well where ever he ends up. Good kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Running the offence he did, behind that O-line, with that running game and receivers I don't see how his stats can be compared with this year's big school prospects who benefited from at least some NFL calibre players at the so called skill positions not to mention better, and in some cases much better, O-lines, and working offensive schemes that were not only more QB friendly but specifically to some extent customized to emphasize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. So I don't focus on the 56% completion % and kick him to the curb (as some do). No one has done Josh Allen any favours. His draft value is without doubt first round IMO and he should go early. The bust potential is there to be sure, as it is for Sam Darnold, but they are both very good prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Because he played at the 7th best conference in the NCAA and played only two years after community college ball. Because his QB rating was terrible against top 50 teams and so-so against top 100 teams. (he did smoke Garner-Webb college). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 He shows all the signs of past busts. That, along with most of his hype being based purely on his physical attributes and "potential," rather than what he did on the field. When you hear about his arm strength, mobility, height, hand size, etc. MORE than decision making, accuracy, performance in big games, meaningful wins, TD/INT ratio, intelligence, and pocket presence, it's usually a sign of scouts and GM's salivating over what they WANT a QB to become rather than what that QB actually is... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 On April 19, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Buff76ers said: We does everyone hate the idea of Josh Allen to Buffalo, but all these experts think differently. There is a reason he could go number, but I can’t see what all the hate is for? He went on a date with my sister and never called her again. ...you just don't do that to a guy's sister, especially when she has a such a really good personality, has many cats, is well read and is a chicken wing eating contest winner. Show some class, man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 In the end I trust the scouts,GM's, and coaches opinions before anyone's opinion on here. That doesn't mean I don't respect our rights to our opinions but all said and done I'll go with the guys in the league not us fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said: Because he played at the 7th best conference in the NCAA and played only two years after community college ball. Because his QB rating was terrible against top 50 teams and so-so against top 100 teams. (he did smoke Garner-Webb college). But, he did rank 7th in the MWC in passer rating this year! And, if you're not impressed he had bad receivers, bad OL, bad coaching, bad diarrhea, bad breath in the huddle etc. Edited April 21, 2018 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 On 4/19/2018 at 4:06 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: He stole my girlfriend and didn’t even say sorry. Obviously it is because you are not a Ladies' Man. Maybe try being a Men's Man? 2 hours ago, horned dogs said: But, he did rank 7th in the MWC in passer rating this year! And, if you're not impressed he had bad receivers, bad OL, bad coaching, bad diarrhea, bad breath in the huddle etc. The good news for him is bad diarrhea & bad breath in the huddle are curable. The bad news on other issues it will continue to occur if he goes to Buffalo. No confidence on new Offense coaching team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff76ers Posted April 21, 2018 Author Share Posted April 21, 2018 Ok thanks for feed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Team rank game score QB rating Iowa #18 Lost 24-3 30 Boise State #33 Lost 24-14 63 Oregon #40 Lost 49-13 7 Fresno State #53 Lost 13-7 -- Colorado State #84 Won 16-13 41 Air Force #93 Won 28-14 84 Utah State #89 Won 28-23 60 Central Michigan #99 Won 37-14 88 New Mexico #114 Won 42-3 78 Hawaii #154 Won 28-21 82 San Jose State #179 Lost 20-17 --- Texas State #183 Won 45-10 88 Gardner-Webb #264 Won 27-0 97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 On 4/20/2018 at 2:21 PM, starrymessenger said: Running the offence he did, behind that O-line, with that running game and receivers I don't see how his stats can be compared with this year's big school prospects who benefited from at least some NFL calibre players at the so called skill positions not to mention better, and in some cases much better, O-lines, and working offensive schemes that were not only more QB friendly but specifically to some extent customized to emphasize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. So I don't focus on the 56% completion % and kick him to the curb (as some do). No one has done Josh Allen any favours. His draft value is without doubt first round IMO and he should go early. The bust potential is there to be sure, as it is for Sam Darnold, but they are both very good prospects. I want a QB that doesn't already have built in excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billvernsays Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 On 4/20/2018 at 12:18 AM, Logic said: I was kidding with the "What do you mean YOU PEOPLE?" remark. I was not kidding that my opinion is that Allen stinks. I also respect and appreciate your contrary opinion. I have already read and quite enjoyed your Allen thread. I have also watched every "all throws" video I can find on Youtube, because part of me thinks the Bills really like him, and I'm trying to get myself mentally ready. He makes anywhere from 2-5 "WOW" throws per game. But everything in between those "WOW" throws -- the misfires of simple swing routes and screens, bailing out of pocket due to phantom pressure, failure to keep the offense "on schedule" much of the time, misfiring on seam routes and overthrowing would-be TDs, boneheaded "WHAT WAS HE THINKING?!" interceptions -- concerns me very much. Of all the QBs, I feel like I've watched and read about Allen the MOST, even though I like him the least. I've watched and read about him BECAUSE I don't understand why he is a candidate to be a top five pick. It's so strange to me that a guy who completed less than 60% of his passes in high school, failed to garner any major college offers in two separate recruiting campaigns (despite THAT arm and THOSE physical tools), didn't blow away the competition in the Mountain West, and failed to complete 60% of his passes again at Wyoming...is somehow a top five candidate. I can see his off-the-charts physical gifts, I can see that the skill position players and offensive line around him in 2017 stunk, I can see that he makes some jaw-dropping throws...but all of that doesn't add up to an NFL projection I feel comfortable with. Physical gifts and "Want-to" alone won't do it. I fear he doesn't have what it takes between the ears. That's my opinion. I respect that yours is different and all that really matters is that we'll find out what Beane and McDermott's opinion is on the matter in one week. Peyton Manning has said the best thing the Colts EVER did for his development was they didn’t give him many easy throws his 1st year in the league. They also told him they didn’t care about INTs because they wanted him to realize what he could and what he couldn’t do. Many of of these guys coming out are on teams with 4 and 5 star players all round them and their job is to protect the ball because their team is good enough. The problem with that is they are never asked to push it and see what they can do. We saw it the past couple years with Tyrod more often than not it wasn’t the throws he misses that caused us to lose, it’s the ones he never attempts. Allen took a lot of chances this year because he had to. His offense also didn’t have many easy throws built in to it and since he was the only guy to game plan against (WYO has zero run game) he saw 8 and 9 man drops almost exclusively. He’s better than most on this board realize, the scouts are right about him. QB rank: Darnold, Allen, & Mayfield. *Rosen talent wise he’s number 1, but with his father being a Neurosurgeon I’m concerned he’s two big hits away from walking away from the NFL completely after he proves to himself that he COULD do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) It's not hate. He's just a Project QB, and by Project QB, I don't mean developmental QB, I mean Project QB. I'll provide what I think is exactly the definition of what a Project QB, and all I've done here is taken the summary section of Allen and Blake Bortles (another obvious Project QB) and combined them. "Possesses ideal size, athletic ability, intangibles and enough arm strength to develop into an upper-echelon quarterback. Is not yet a franchise quarterback, but has all the physical ingredients to become an outstanding NFL starter. Where he goes in the NFL will have a big impact on if he pans out. He needs good coaching to develop his game and improve on his fundamentals. Whichever team views him as a future franchise quarterback and takes him will have to have good quarterback teachers in house to work with him." I don't hate Allen. He's just a clear Project, and those guys very rarely become Franchise QBs, despite plenty of examples historically of teams drafting these guys in the 1st and 2nd round. Edited April 22, 2018 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 It’s probably his hair cut. Major red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 2 hours ago, billvernsays said: Rosen talent wise he’s number 1, but with his father being a Neurosurgeon I’m concerned he’s two big hits away from walking away from the NFL completely after he proves to himself that he COULD do it. There's zero chance he walks away workout winning a super bowl. He wants to be like his hero and fellow UCLA alum Troy Aikman. Win some super bowls, make the hall of fame, parlay that into a successful business career. He wants the name brand recognition. Nobody is going into business with an NFL bust or a quitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 INACCURATE Cosell has stated he needs a ton of work. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/greg-cosells-draft-analysis-josh-allen-young-wild-stallion-needs-channeled-163817268.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 12 hours ago, macaroni said: I want a QB that doesn't already have built in excuses Not excuses. Reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 History shows that picking QBs with great physical attributes over excellent football skills is a losing proposition. He is the ultimate risk/reward and I personally would not trade up to get him. Makes the risk higher to the team as other resources are sacrificed with no reward increase. If he falls to 12, then the value proposition changes and the risk may be worth taking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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