Greg Cosell: Josh Rosen >Jared Goff, and best QB in the draft

[DCOrange]

Wasn't sure where exactly to post it but didn't think it's deserving of its own thread, so here:

 

 

[Sky Diver]

12 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Wasn't sure where exactly to post it but didn't think it's deserving of its own thread, so here:

 

 

 

 BillsFan4, those are valid points. To me, he seems like a guy that isn’t ready, physically or mentally, for the NFL. That’s just a gut feeling. I wish him well and I hope he doesn’t get chewed up and spit out, but I see that as a reasonable possibility. It’s undeniable that he has a lot of talent.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Sky Diver

[thunderingsquid]

Let's freaking get him then!  

 

 

God, 9 days seems like a freaking eternity.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Nineforty said:

I get what you are saying and that seems right about nationality which on its surface would seem to eliminate what I said. 

 

What about genetics? Could your heritage be jewish, but not from a religious standpoint but genetics?

 

....hmmm.... possible putz??............

[RochesterRob]

28 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

the shoulder thing could be a concern although it wouldn't stop me from taking him. the only thing would be,

can he want to be here and give his all for this team and city?  if that's not possible, it's gonna be a long disgruntled rookie contract.....locker room. if he's rubbing things the wrong way, this team will suffer.

  Length of contract for the draft capital we are most likely to use is a very large concern to me.  No way we can hold anybody such as Rosen here for 10 or 15 years if he has made up his mind to not be here.  Unfortunately, I can imagine a number of scenarios that would put him at odds with quite a number of WNY people.

[John from Riverside]

I truly believe that the bills brass thinks Josh Rosen is exactly the type of QB they are looking for....just based on the drafting of Peterman last year.

 

Peterman had a horrible outing....but the fact is he has size.....throws from the pocket...throws with anticipation.....and is actually pretty accurate....just his ball floats.

[RochesterRob]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'll take this one on. 

 

I think Beane alluded to it either during the senior bowl or the combine.  He said something to the effect that, the whole evaluation process is very team specific, and the top QB for us won't necessarily be the top QB for every team.  Different teams will weight different factors differently.

 

I think that's spot-on especially where Rosen is concerned.  I think he is a challenging, questioning kind of guy and as Trent Dilfer says, you need to bring your coaching A game for him, if you try to serve him "Weak Sauce" you will lose him.  He said this favorably, alluding to Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers as being similar in their coaching needs.  But there are coaches in the NFL who would NOT take well to this, who would see this as a serious flaw: "do it that way because I say so!"  I see Todd Haley and Hue Jackson, for example, as being in that mold of wanting to be the autocrat and not be questioned (maybe I'm wrong, it's just what I think I see). 

 

I don't know if Rosen is our top choice, but it makes perfect sense to me that he might be for some teams, but with the same information but different assessment of it, not for others.

 

Indeed, I'm dealing with the remnants of one (auto accident) right now and it lacks amusement.

  Your next to last sentence agrees with my statement.  It does not take half the league to put pressure on the Bills to get this guy if that is their intent.  It would only take the better part of a half dozen teams to push the price too high for Buffalo.  Also, I am waiting for Beane to say Rosen is his man which I know will not happen in the real world until the Bills go to the podium but I have to disagree with those here that say that they "know" Rosen is our man.  Based on what real world evidence?  Fact is nobody has a pipeline into the Bills offices to know what they are thinking.  Don't confuse desire with Beane's intentions as they may be mutually exclusive to one another.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....interestingly, Cosell contradicts Breer's mock draft posted in another thread.....Cosell says "top" whereas Breer says  he is available at 9 and Bflo's selection after trading up.....that should clear things up........

Edited April 17, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[peterpan]

5 hours ago, kdiggz said:

people don't get it.  Rosen was the top prospect in cali as a youngster, better than Goff and Darnold and all of those guys.  went to St John Bosco prep, one of the best football programs in the country.  best QB in the nation coming out of high school.  elite 11, all of that.  he is the best QB in this draft and the best in at least the past 3 drafts

 

5 hours ago, billspro said:

He is a much better prospect than Goff imo. I hope we get him.

Been saying the same all off season.  Rosen is the best QB to come out in 3-4 years minimum.  I can't imagine teams passing on him but then again teams make stupid decisions all the time (EJ Manual cough cough)

[Putin]

5 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

But...

Does Charles Barkley like him?

What about Nick saban?

 

I hope Jets REALLY like him and he ends up in New York ? 

35 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said:

Let's freaking get him then!  

 

 

God, 9 days seems like a freaking eternity.  

God forbid !!!! 

Anyone but him ?!!!!

[SouthNYfan]

12 minutes ago, Putin said:

I hope Jets REALLY like him and he ends up in New York ? 

God forbid !!!! 

Anyone but him ?!!!!

 

Why anyone but him?

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

Wasn't sure where exactly to post it but didn't think it's deserving of its own thread, so here:

 

 

High floor? Sign me up it’s been 20 freaking years.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

High floor? Sign me up it’s been 20 freaking years.

I also heard people who I respect more than this clown say he will be a star by his second year. Who else in this draft can you say that about? Maybe Baker

[DCOrange]

Feels like it’s Hate On Rosen Day for some reason.

 

This Twitter thread popped up on my timeline today:

 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Feels like it’s Hate On Rosen Day for some reason.

 

This Twitter thread popped up on my timeline today:

 

I can find "some plays" that really stand out that would "concern him" about ANY quarterback that EVER played the game. Every. Single. One. Just an absolutely asinine take. 

[YoloinOhio]

The draft analysts have jumped the shark. I saw one today that compared each QB to a cast member from “the Office”

 

rosen was Jim Halpert. Baker was Schrute.

Edited April 17, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

18 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I can find "some plays" that really stand out that would "concern him" about ANY quarterback that EVER played the game. Every. Single. One. Just an absolutely asinine take. 

If this keeps up we may have to trade down for Rosen

[Mango]

5 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Do they care inside of closed doors of course not.  But Terry certainly cares when he has to go outside the Buffalo city limits to be assured of a sellout for the Cap.  Also, I would imagine that those towns are very good for selling Bills-marked NFL merchandise which has little market value 120 miles or more away from Orchard Park.

 

 

Not to go down the rabbit hole here but....you do realize that most of the country mostly agrees with Rosen/dislikes the Donald/voted for the other person on the ballot.

 

We also sell lots of Canadian tickets, a nation that is largely dumbfounded by our election. 

 

That argument doesn’t make sense. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Mango
Spelling and Grammar

[K-9]

1 minute ago, horned dogs said:

If this keeps up we may have to trade down for Rosen

Disinformation campaigns have hurt players in the past definitely. Marino and Sapp come to mind as two prominent examples. Part of me believes a team wants him to fall so they are in a position to get him. This is where GMs have to stick to their process and trust the research that informs them. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Disinformation campaigns have hurt players in the past definitely. Marino and Sapp come to mind as two prominent examples. Part of me believes a team wants him to fall so they are in a position to get him. This is where GMs have to stick to their process and trust the research that informs them. 

Wonder if that team is in Orchard Park. That Albert Breer Mock looks pretty good!

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, kdiggz said:

people don't get it.  Rosen was the top prospect in cali as a youngster, better than Goff and Darnold and all of those guys.  went to St John Bosco prep, one of the best football programs in the country.  best QB in the nation coming out of high school.  elite 11, all of that.  he is the best QB in this draft and the best in at least the past 3 drafts

 

Certainly the most polished. Honestly all 4 can succeed if they find the right fit and have some decent luck.

 

the guy that walks into a toxic locker room, gets injured in camp, has his OC fired in September, new head coach and gm next year, etc.... will bust... but generally I think all 4 if put into good spots will stick around at least serviceably. If Rosen doesn’t get any concussions he should be a mid tier guy at worst (think guys like Flacco, dalton, Schaub back in the day) and could be very good.

[DCOrange]

38 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I can find "some plays" that really stand out that would "concern him" about ANY quarterback that EVER played the game. Every. Single. One. Just an absolutely asinine take. 

 

Lol. He’s saying the plays included are some examples of the concerns that he has from watching him overall...literally the same thing all scouts do. Obviously everyone has a bad play every once in awhile. He’s saying these are legitimate weaknesses in his game. You can disagree with his conclusions if you’d like but there’s nothing wrong with using a twitter thread to illustrate the strengths and weaknesses of a prospect.

[RochesterRob]

29 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Not to go down the rabbit hole here but....you do realize that most of the country mostly agrees with Rosen/dislikes the Donald/voted for the other person on the ballot.

 

We also sell lots of Canadian tickets, a nation that is largely dumbfounded by our election. 

 

That argument doesn’t make sense. 

  So you are totally ignoring that I brought up fracking which has sparked intense debate and while dead for the moment could come back as a hot issue in the future?  Plenty of other issues here in NY as well.  When Rosen sees what NYS takes out of each game paycheck played in Orchard Park he might just become a Republican yet.  I know you want to make this about Trump but I am not playing that game.  All that aside it was mentioned on the old BBMB that upwards of 8-10 thousand tickets for each game are sold in New York outside of Erie and Monroe Counties which is a bit more than chicken feed.  I don't know of any business that operates under the basis that fewer customers are better for the business.

[K-9]

21 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

Lol. He’s saying the plays included are some examples of the concerns that he has from watching him overall...literally the same thing all scouts do. Obviously everyone has a bad play every once in awhile. He’s saying these are legitimate weaknesses in his game. You can disagree with his conclusions if you’d like but there’s nothing wrong with using a twitter thread to illustrate the strengths and weaknesses of a prospect.

Lol! 

 

That is not literally what all scouts do. For instance, every, EVERY snap of Rosen's has been broken down into under center/shot gun; 3, 5, 7 step drop, designed rollouts, broken plays, etc. Every snap he's ever taken in college has been categorized and analyzed. The ENTIRETY of the analysis goes into the evaluation. Yes, including those "concerning" plays. The point is, it's not limited. For every "concerning" play there is an example of a play that shows his promise. But scouts aren't sucked into that limited evaluation, either. EVERY snap is broken down and evaluated and weighed against the game situation and I guarantee he has been asked to provide explanations on BOTH  his failed plays as well as his successful plays. 

 

What this talking head "analyst" did is the farthest thing from "literally the same thing scouts do." These talking heads simply don't have the time or resources to dedicate to doing what scouts do. Simple as that. 

 

[BillsFan4]

Just now, DCOrange said:

Wasn't sure where exactly to post it but didn't think it's deserving of its own thread, so here:

 

 

That's interesting. I hadn't really heard that about Rosen. 

 

I tend to disagree, but I am not a professional scout. 

I just think he has a lot of room still to grow as a passer. I don't see why he can't continue to get better, but that's just me. 

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  And if this is true then Pegula will also consider Rosen's baggage in terms of selling tickets outside of the heavily Democratic Buffalo city limits.  He will have to consider how Rosen's politics will play in Springville, Franklinville, and Wellsville to name a few podunk locales.  And on a personal level I would imagine Rosen would not consider Terry's primary business which is fracking as being politically correct.

I doubt that will come into play. At least I sure hope it doesn't. Political views would be a horrible reason to pass on any player. I'd be a bit scared for the future of the Bills if that were the case. 

 

Just looking at his time as owner though -

 

Look what he let Rex Ryan do. That was a pretty controversial thing, giving that opening speech... that could have easily divided the fan base and Pegula never seemed bothered by it. 

 

He also fully supported his players when they chose to kneel and backed them publically, another controversial move that actually cost him some sponsors IIRC (I know that Veins, Veins, Veins place chose not to advertise with the Sabres for the season and spoke out against it. I'm not sure if there were any others). 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by BillsFan4

[DCOrange]

39 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Lol! 

 

That is not literally what all scouts do. For instance, every, EVERY snap of Rosen's has been broken down into under center/shot gun; 3, 5, 7 step drop, designed rollouts, broken plays, etc. Every snap he's ever taken in college has been categorized and analyzed. The ENTIRETY of the analysis goes into the evaluation. Yes, including those "concerning" plays. The point is, it's not limited. For every "concerning" play there is an example of a play that shows his promise. But scouts aren't sucked into that limited evaluation, either. EVERY snap is broken down and evaluated and weighed against the game situation and I guarantee he has been asked to provide explanations on BOTH  his failed plays as well as his successful plays. 

 

What this talking head "analyst" did is the farthest thing from "literally the same thing scouts do." These talking heads simply don't have the time or resources to dedicate to doing what scouts do. Simple as that. 

 

Clearly an analyst on Twitter does not have the same resources as NFL employees. Watching film and breaking down a prospects strengths and weaknesses is what I was referring to. Obviously a Twitter thread isn’t as in-depth as a professional scouting report. This guy scouted Rosen and then provided clips of the weaknesses that he found.

[Sky Diver]

47 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  So you are totally ignoring that I brought up fracking which has sparked intense debate and while dead for the moment could come back as a hot issue in the future?  Plenty of other issues here in NY as well.  When Rosen sees what NYS takes out of each game paycheck played in Orchard Park he might just become a Republican yet.  I know you want to make this about Trump but I am not playing that game.  All that aside it was mentioned on the old BBMB that upwards of 8-10 thousand tickets for each game are sold in New York outside of Erie and Monroe Counties which is a bit more than chicken feed.  I don't know of any business that operates under the basis that fewer customers are better for the business.

 

CA and NY are the two highest tax states in the country. NYS taxes just might turn him.

 

It’s neither here nor there, but I read that Rosen’s father voted for Trump.

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

CA and NY are the two highest tax states in the country. NYS taxes just might turn him.

 

It’s neither here nor there, but I read that Rosen’s father voted for Trump.

  We have not heard from Mango for an hour now so does that mean that his Cynthia Nixon for Governor meeting has run over its allotted time?

[Sky Diver]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  We have not heard from Mango for an hour now so does that mean that his Cynthia Nixon for Governor meeting has run over its allotted time?

 

I was out of state for 7 yrs and recently moved back. I lost track of the politics here. Had to look up who Cynthia Nixon is. NY is a bloody mess. Never thought I’d be back here, but here I am.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

He should be a winner, if your QB is a winner people will follow. Mariota isn't a vocal leader neither is Russell Wilson but they win. Get a QB who can get us W's and they will follow no matter how opinionated he is.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Rosen used the A word to describe his own Faith.  That is anti McDermott, who cites faith as a thing he likes about players when describing key attributes. I don’t see him hoping on the Rosen train even if that’s where Beane wants to go. 

 

 

What the....???

 

No I've read it all.  The final absurdity of all of the predraft absurdities regarding the QBs.

 

The NFL is cruel holding the draft so late.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Mango]

2 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  So you are totally ignoring that I brought up fracking which has sparked intense debate and while dead for the moment could come back as a hot issue in the future?  Plenty of other issues here in NY as well.  When Rosen sees what NYS takes out of each game paycheck played in Orchard Park he might just become a Republican yet.  I know you want to make this about Trump but I am not playing that game.  All that aside it was mentioned on the old BBMB that upwards of 8-10 thousand tickets for each game are sold in New York outside of Erie and Monroe Counties which is a bit more than chicken feed.  I don't know of any business that operates under the basis that fewer customers are better for the business.

 

Fracking? ...really? 

 

Those pro-fracking will go the way of the whigs. It’s not happening in NYS...ever. It will become illegal nationally before NYS starts fracking. I’m not even weighing my opinion here, but it is the political (and social) climate currently, and it won’t be changing. You have major industrialized nations prohibiting it federally, and you’re worried about season tickets next year because of the topic?

 

Pegula is fully aware, I am sure of it. Otherwise he doesn’t sell drilling rights to it for a football team in a medium/small market. He will continue to liquidate on a large scale in states not names Ohio or West Virginia in the coming years (5-10 tips), and redirect investments. It’s like selling bitcoin high. We all know it won’t work long term, but you ride the wave for the chance.  

 

Even major oil states like OK are starting to push back strongly against it. Not really helping yourself here. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

What the....???

 

No I've read it all.  The final absurdity of all of the predraft absurdities regarding the QBs.

 

The NFL is cruel holding the draft so late.

 

Surprised McDermott culture fit matters in the draft evaluation? 

 

You must be a younger/newer fan of the sport 

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Surprised McDermott culture fit matters in the draft evaluation? 

 

You must be a younger/newer fan of the sport 

I believe McD is big on culture fit. But I’m not sure that pertains to Rosen’s religious status. Surely there is diversity among the current players in this area as well? 

[#34fan]

10 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

"For NFL teams that value pocket play, Rosen will be a desirable prospect in this draft. "

 

You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.

 

 

What Pocket?... Our O-line situation is terrible. 

 

What good is a pocket passer if he's always on his back?

[YoloinOhio]

Jeremiah has Darnold as QB1 but he’s high on Rosen 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

 

[Prickly Pete]

I had been hoping that the Bill would trade up to get Rosen (I assume Darnold will go first. Darnold would be my first choice). However, here in LA on the Petros &Money Show, they (and guys on their staff) have been very down on Rosen. They have been pretty spot on in the past when they criticized previous local college guys. They set out warnings on Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart, had pretty good assessments of guys like Sanchez, Barkley, Kessler, and others. I think they have good local sources.

 

They consider him a very talented player, but very selfish and difficult. He apparently had originally been keen to become a tennis pro, but an arm/shoulder injury nixed that. They feel his mentality is more suited to an individual sport than a team sport. They also alluded to hearing lots of negative things about him from people around the team. Rosen is not well liked.

 

Another big concern is his concussions, and that he might be fragile.

 

I haven't heard them rip into Darnold at all.

 

I put more weight in their opinions on LA college players, than any of the national media guys.

 

I suppose I would be happy enough if they selected Rosen at 12, but not happy if they trade away a bunch of picks to select him higher.

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by OJABBA

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I believe McD is big on culture fit. But I’m not sure that pertains to Rosen’s religious status. Surely there is diversity among the current players in this area as well? 

 

Take the observation for what you will. I’ve just seen a lot of religion in the acquisitions made since his arrival, and I’ve heard “man of great faith” as the second or third trait mentioned by him about multiple pick ups.

 

Now look at the current QB position, it’s practically clergy. 

 

I personally think Rosen is going to pan out. But I think this front office leverages religion as a mechanism to “unite the brotherhood”. If they end up picking Rudolph Mason instead you’ll know why. 

 

  http://amp.heraldonline.com/sports/college/article25676839.html

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Mojo44]

20 hours ago, jr1 said:

Mayfield's completion percentage was 8 points higher than Rosen's this season

A lot of “hand off” passes in a system geared towards a high completion percentage.Not saying Mayfield isn’t a good prospect, but that statistic,in my opinion, is quite misleading.I would absolutely take Rosen over Mayfield.