A Different Josh Allen Perspective For People Who Actually Care About Reality

[DCOrange]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

One thing I will say is that Allen's completion percentage would easily be in the 60s had Wyoming attempted more high percentage throws (screens, bubble screens, etc.)

 

They were few and far between in this offense.  I can understand why a Todd Haley would love him, especially after a year or so on the bench.

He literally only needed 1 more easy completion per game to hit 60% lol

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Nobody in the football world can consistently judge QBs properly more than 50% of the time.

In fact they could just take a coin and flip it and be right as often or more often and it would allow them a lot more free time to play golf

 

Oh, Sh*t, Matter now you've got me thinking and my head hurts.  "Nobody in the football world can consistently judge QBs properly more than 50% of the time".  I'm not sure that's true, and I say that as someone on the board who has probably spent the most time close-up-and-personal with the statistics of QB drafting.

 

Bottom line: I don't think it's really no better than a coin flip for everyone in the NFL.  I think there are some people making draft choices who aren't good at it, or who overweight the wrong criteria.  And I think there are probably others who are good at it, but we don't see it, because once they've got their QB, they're good for years and out of the hunt.

 

What's true is:

-at the very top of the draft (top 2 picks) QB success is about 65-75% (success means getting a guy who can play competently in the NFL, not drafting a star of stars, and the range reflects different criteria used by different folks

-top 5 picks of the draft: 50%

-picks 6-32 and 2nd round: ~20% (actually picks 11-20 30% and 21-32 8%, but the numbers are small)

 

On the surface, the QB draft success rate would appear to support your contention.  I don't think it does.

 

First, we have about 12 teams with an established long term starter.  Now for 10 of those teams, that means at some point, someone in their football world made a good draft choice at QB.  For the other 2, someone made a good FA or trade choice.  So for about 1/3 of NFL teams, whether or not their scouts and GM could judge a QB factor is an unknown, 'cuz they haven't had to do so publically for years.

 

Second, we have about 8 teams who recently drafted or acquired a QB and who appear to have made a successful choice.  So for that team, their success rate is 100% in the year they picked.  We have about 4 teams where the jury is out right now, because their guy hasn't played yet or may have just had some rookie struggles or got injured.

 

That leaves about 8 teams in the league who need a QB.  Maybe it's not a coin flip.  Maybe it's just that the FOs of about 22 teams can get it right, while the other 10 can't.

 

To really know, we'd need data we just don't have, which is how the QB appear on all 32 teams draft boards year after year, relative to how they work out.

 

That doesn't delve into the question of a Steve Young or a Rich Gannon or a Matt Hasselbeck or an Alex Smith where the guy struggled with one team and bloomed with another, which would imply that picking the QB is only part of the equation, properly supporting and developing a QB may lead to the failure of a draft choice who could succeed. with the right support.

 

 

[NewEraBills]

I would say "good" is a relative term in this case.  But in any case, I like Allen's toughness, attitude and his demeanor.  I think the issue that you are going to have is that I'm not so sure the tape tells what you say it does.  One thing I will say though is that Allen in some ways is hard to grade 2016 and 2017 because when you look at both year's there is something in common, namely, for the most part the kid was running for his life.  I'm going to post some games from 2016 and from 2017 and it's clear, the kid felt like he had to make a lot of plays and as a result, some good things happened and some bad things happened.

 

2016 vs San Diego State  http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/07/17/josh-allen-vs-san-diego-state-2016-mwcc/

Major props for forcing that fumble for a touchback.  Any QB that does that checks off the toughness card for me.

2016 vs BYU    http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/04/16/josh-allen-vs-byu-2016/

2016 vs New Mexico http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/04/16/josh-allen-vs-new-mexico-2016/

 

Now watch 2017

2017 vs Boise http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/10/27/josh-allen-vs-boise-state-2017/

2017 vs Iowa http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/09/08/josh-allen-vs-iowa-2017/

2017 vs Utah State http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/11/22/josh-allen-vs-utah-state-2017/

 

I have no idea what's going on with their protection scheme, but one thing is constant in all 6 games, Allen got pressured alot.  Sometimes 5 man, sometimes 4, sometimes 6 man pressures.  So I don't buy the he had more talent around him in 2016 that made him world's better that year.  The OL was bad both years.  He had better WR's in 2016 but the comp percentage was higher this year with worse wide wrs.  He was running for his life quite a bit in 2017 trying to make things happen.  He did the same thing the previous year in 2016.  

 

Allen from what I can tell is a hard worker; humble and will be a good leader.  I've changed on him but I still have big concerns.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

One thing I will say is that Allen's completion percentage would easily be in the 60s had Wyoming attempted more high percentage throws (screens, bubble screens, etc.)

They were few and far between in this offense.  I can understand why a Todd Haley would love him, especially after a year or so on the bench.

 

Some years back, I made arguments like that myself.  I believe at the time, I was arguing for Ryan Fitzpatrick, that 1-2 more completions per game would make him a decent QB.  And obviously the Bills bought it because they signed him to that contract.

 

The problem I now see with my younger self, is that the argument goes both ways.  1-2 more interceptions from throws that could have been picked or weren't.  1-2 more high degree of difficulty catches that could have been dropped.  So then that completion % goes down again.

 

I too can see why a Todd Haley would love him.  The unstated but real "other side" of the "arrogant athlete" narrative is that many of these coaches are egotists and think they can fix anyone and "mold clay", while saying "you can't coach height (hand size.  athleticism.  arm strength)" 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Bag of Milk said:

In junior college Josh Allen finished 57th out of 58 qualifying QB's in  completion percentage.( 49%)

So there is that.

 

Not a fan.

But look at who he had around him! 

 

In all seriousness, what I take away from Metz's argument is that Allen was playing with NFL caliber talent in 2016 and no NFL caliber talent in 2017. Well, his 2016 tape should look better if his team had such a talent discrepancy in a weak football conference, but here's the rub - his numbers in 2016 weren't eye popping at all. The guy has never been a dominant player regardless of who he was playing with and against. How many defensive players in this same conference went on to play in the NFL? Take another QB and put him in Allen's situation - Cam Newton since so many like to compare the two. Would Newton look like a varsity QB playing with and against JV players? Or would he look like just another guy on the football field? I'd have to think he'd shine regardless of who he was playing with and against, so I don't buy the argument he wasn't helped by his teammates. I don't know if Allen will succeed or fail in the NFL, but most signs point to him being a bust.

[BillsFan17]

43 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

This is your opinion and I completely disagree with comparing Allen to Jones. Sure they compare well physically but Cardale was known as a goofball and did not take his craft seriously. That makes a big difference. 

 

There are major physical differences between Losman/Boller and Allen. Allen has 2-3 inches on them and weighs 20lbs more. 

 

There are more differences which have been pointed out in previous threads. I feel like I have wasted too much time already because people are dug in and see what they want to see. 

 

I am no Allen homer and he may end up busting but it also would not entirely shock me if he ended up having a career like Stafford or a Favre (who have more in common with Allen as far as traits/stats than Losman and Boller). 

Kyle Boller- 6'3" 220lbs

Matt Stafford- 6'3" 220lbs

 

JP Losman- 6'2" 212lbs

Brett Favre- 6'2" 222lbs

Edited April 17, 2018 by BillsFan17

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

One that wasn’t touched on.

 

Josh Allen is innacurate. True.

 

And this is the most important one.

Arm talent is as real as Sasquatch.

 

It’s a term invented by Trent Dilfer to provide people a lazy way of describing all things Arm. And as all of us with eyes know, throwing is much more than just “arm.”

 

Arm Talent. Lol

You hate Trent, don’t you?  I’m ambivalent toward him. 

 

Is it so hard for you to accept a widely accepted term regarding how well a guy can throw the ball to different places under different circumstances. Some people are natural throwers, EJ is not. Who do you want to add to that list?  Where does Allen sit? 

 

It does NOT describe all things arm, it’s most things excluding arm strength. Now, can you break that down further? Of course. If a kid has a 3.5 GPA, it is not an indication of all his abilities. He may have a 4.0 in math and a 3.0 in english. You are just stubborn on this point. Do you have a phrase you would prefer the world use instead? Or do we have to break it down into 27 different categories? 

 

Arm talent also does not, in my mind, have anything to do with reading the field, and finding the target. That is something different, unless you disagree, of course. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Augie

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, Sh*t, Matter now you've got me thinking and my head hurts.  "Nobody in the football world can consistently judge QBs properly more than 50% of the time".  I'm not sure that's true, and I say that as someone on the board who has probably spent the most time close-up-and-personal with the statistics of QB drafting.

 

Bottom line: I don't think it's really no better than a coin flip for everyone in the NFL.  I think there are some people making draft choices who aren't good at it, or who overweight the wrong criteria.  And I think there are probably others who are good at it, but we don't see it, because once they've got their QB, they're good for years and out of the hunt.

 

What's true is:

-at the very top of the draft (top 2 picks) QB success is about 65-75% (success means getting a guy who can play competently in the NFL, not drafting a star of stars, and the range reflects different criteria used by different folks

-top 5 picks of the draft: 50%

-picks 6-32 and 2nd round: ~20% (actually picks 11-20 30% and 21-32 8%, but the numbers are small)

 

On the surface, the QB draft success rate would appear to support your contention.  I don't think it does.

 

First, we have about 12 teams with an established long term starter.  Now for 10 of those teams, that means at some point, someone in their football world made a good draft choice at QB.  For the other 2, someone made a good FA or trade choice.  So for about 1/3 of NFL teams, whether or not their scouts and GM could judge a QB factor is an unknown, 'cuz they haven't had to do so publically for years.

 

Second, we have about 8 teams who recently drafted or acquired a QB and who appear to have made a successful choice.  So for that team, their success rate is 100% in the year they picked.  We have about 4 teams where the jury is out right now, because their guy hasn't played yet or may have just had some rookie struggles or got injured.

 

That leaves about 8 teams in the league who need a QB.  Maybe it's not a coin flip.  Maybe it's just that the FOs of about 22 teams can get it right, while the other 10 can't.

 

To really know, we'd need data we just don't have, which is how the QB appear on all 32 teams draft boards year after year, relative to how they work out.

 

That doesn't delve into the question of a Steve Young or a Rich Gannon or a Matt Hasselbeck or an Alex Smith where the guy struggled with one team and bloomed with another, which would imply that picking the QB is only part of the equation, properly supporting and developing a QB may lead to the failure of a draft choice who could succeed. with the right support.

 

 

 

Spending a top 5 pick in the draft isn't for guys who can "play competently.  So the criteria for a QB taken in the top 5 of the draft now becomes the same as a CB, RB or WR that gets drafted in the 3rd round?  Because plenty of those guys can and do play "competently" in the NFL for many years after being drafted there.  Sometimes even lower...

 

The fact that the bar is set at "can play competently" shows in fact that what I said is pretty much true...unless you lower the bar so a 95 year old granny in a wheelchair can step over it, the success rate is far less than that.

Edited April 17, 2018 by matter2003

[Tyrod's friend]

No intent on snark here but ...  

He was completing around 49% of his passes on a JUCO team in 14, right? He was with the WY program in '15 riding pine, and then in 16 he played on a team with five or six NFL offensive talents ... in the MWC ... and his team lost six games. So, not for nothing, but it's not like he was some nube tossed to the lions; the opposition wasn't like he was playing in the SEC and he had by even your account a superior supporting cast. He had starting collegiate experience at a lower level and it's not like he didn't know the offense. It didn't result in really great season and really just ordinary statistics.

'17 he had no talent around him. OK. Fine. But  what I did not hear Metz saying and I certainly didn't see was Josh Allen improving his game. I think that's a universal opinion among people that know a lot more than any of us. Part of being a QB is knowing to take what the defense is giving you, and part of it is making the read and knowing when and where the blitz is coming from and adapting. What I saw in admittedly limited viewing, and it's clear it's different than Metz, is a guy that wasn't making that read, that was in a constant hero mode. Yeah, he had crappy teammates. I heard that already; so you don't try and jam the ball 60 yards downfield and emulate Brett Favre. Maybe you just drop it off to the guy on the hot read and live to play another down.

Hey, the original poster got to see him live; none of use can say that and I think it's fair to say that the Buffalo scouts probably saw fewer live games of Josh Allen that Metz did. So thanks for sharing. It was definitely a good take and a good read.

[Bag of Milk]

29 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

But look at who he had around him! 

 

In all seriousness, what I take away from Metz's argument is that Allen was playing with NFL caliber talent in 2016 and no NFL caliber talent in 2017. Well, his 2016 tape should look better if his team had such a talent discrepancy in a weak football conference, but here's the rub - his numbers in 2016 weren't eye popping at all. The guy has never been a dominant player regardless of who he was playing with and against. How many defensive players in this same conference went on to play in the NFL? Take another QB and put him in Allen's situation - Cam Newton since so many like to compare the two. Would Newton look like a varsity QB playing with and against JV players? Or would he look like just another guy on the football field? I'd have to think he'd shine regardless of who he was playing with and against, so I don't buy the argument he wasn't helped by his teammates. I don't know if Allen will succeed or fail in the NFL, but most signs point to him being a bust.

So we agree?

 

Ultimately for me a true franchise QB elevates the play of those around him.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Spending a top 5 pick in the draft isn't for guys who can "play competently. 

 

Why?

 

25 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

So the criteria for a QB taken in the top 5 of the draft now becomes the same as a CB, RB or WR that gets drafted in the 3rd round?

 

Sure.  Whether you draft a guy in the 1st or the 5th, you want to get a guy who can play competently in the NFL  You're just more likely to get one in the 1st than the 3rd. 

 

Sure, you'd like to draft the next Tom Brady or JJ Watt, but teams have won Superbowls with Eli Manning and Joe Flacco - do you see those teams throwing them out?

 

25 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The fact that the bar is set at "can play competently" shows in f3act that what I said is pretty much true...unless you lower the bar so a 95 year old granny in a wheelchair can step over it, the success rate is far less than that.

 

Ookay dookay, have it your way.

[metzelaars_lives]

2 hours ago, Turk71 said:

Yep, he is just misunderstood. One of the greatest qbs to ever play, he was only playing at Wyoming because all the Biff's running college teams were too stupid to realize how great he was. His completion % has always been low because he throws the ball down the field a lot. That fact is not accurately reflected in his ypa because people are biffs. Biffs I tell ya!?

Todd McShay knows way more about football than you.  Like, way, way more.  And Carson Wentz couldn't even play in D1?  You believe that s***?

2 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

This is so far from the truth, it's laughable

Well McShay and Kiper have maintained that he is a top 1 or 2 QB from last year through today.  And virtually every mock draft any of us has seen has him, at worst, as the fourth QB off the board.  He appears to be one of only two QB's in contention for the first overall pick.  So what am I missing here?

1 hour ago, Tyrod's friend said:

No intent on snark here but ...  

He was completing around 49% of his passes on a JUCO team in 14, right? He was with the WY program in '15 riding pine, and then in 16 he played on a team with five or six NFL offensive talents ... in the MWC ... and his team lost six games. So, not for nothing, but it's not like he was some nube tossed to the lions; the opposition wasn't like he was playing in the SEC and he had by even your account a superior supporting cast. He had starting collegiate experience at a lower level and it's not like he didn't know the offense. It didn't result in really great season and really just ordinary statistics.

'17 he had no talent around him. OK. Fine. But  what I did not hear Metz saying and I certainly didn't see was Josh Allen improving his game. I think that's a universal opinion among people that know a lot more than any of us. Part of being a QB is knowing to take what the defense is giving you, and part of it is making the read and knowing when and where the blitz is coming from and adapting. What I saw in admittedly limited viewing, and it's clear it's different than Metz, is a guy that wasn't making that read, that was in a constant hero mode. Yeah, he had crappy teammates. I heard that already; so you don't try and jam the ball 60 yards downfield and emulate Brett Favre. Maybe you just drop it off to the guy on the hot read and live to play another down.

Hey, the original poster got to see him live; none of use can say that and I think it's fair to say that the Buffalo scouts probably saw fewer live games of Josh Allen that Metz did. So thanks for sharing. It was definitely a good take and a good read.

Haha.  Not the case, buddy.  He was named the opening day starter and suffered a season-ending shoulder injury in the first quarter of week 1.  At least have your facts straight.

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

None of this matters because all of the scouts/GMs/football people who live eat and breathe this stuff 24 hours a day/7 days a weeks/365 days a year STILL cannot figure out how to properly evaluate QB prospects, meaning that you, a random internet poster, certainly can't know how to properly evaluate them.

 

However that also means that regardles of what you say about any of the prospects you are likely to be no more wrong or right than anyone else if you look at the overall class.

 

It also means that if you took out a coin and flipped it in the air every year when asked about QB prospects and their chances for NFL success you would likely be just as right or even MORE right than thees football people.  

 

This leads me to my point that none of this stuff matters because it obviously doesn't translate very well to the NFL and you are basically shooting craps by taking a QB because if there WAS a way to figure this stuff out, it would have been fiured out with all of the analytics people and football personnel departments who could benefit from this.

 

This is a fair post and almost kind of my point.  I don't take any issue with people hedging their bets.  Again, I myself am not over-the-top gung ho Josh Allen.  I just can't deal with the morons who are sure as day that he's gonna be a bust as if they know something that people who know way more than them, don't know.

Edited April 17, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[metzelaars_lives]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

One thing I will say is that Allen's completion percentage would easily be in the 60s had Wyoming attempted more high percentage throws (screens, bubble screens, etc.)

 

They were few and far between in this offense.  I can understand why a Todd Haley would love him, especially after a year or so on the bench.

As someone who watched every game he played live, yes, this is a huge, huge point that I cannot stress enough and you would think people would be more interested in understanding.  As a Bills fan, I can remember a game where JP Losman dumped the ball off to Anthony Thomas like 9 times and he ended up with like 9 catches for 36 yards.  Worked well for Losman's completion percentage that day.  I think it was at Jacksonville. 

[John from Riverside]

In all honesty I dont know that much about him

 

Its gonna be interesting 3 years from now when we look back at this draft.....something tells me this could end up being the greatest QB draft ever

[Hsker4life]

IMO

1. Darnold

2. Allen

3. Rosen

4. Mayfield

5. Rudolph

[Dadonkadonk]

Somehow in my mind I can forgive the Allen low completion percentage but not the high Darnold turnover rate.  

I'm probably wrong in both circumstances.  

I still like Allen best followed by Rosen.  Sadly I think the draft will go Allen, Darnold, Rosen 1,2, and 3.  I don't think Mayfield is worth trading up and the Bills then sit at 12 and then take Mayfield or Rudolph.  I'm ok with that as it keeps all the picks to rebuild the lines, LB, and WR corps

If the Giants pass on a QB and Browns take Darnold, the Bills must trade away multiple picks to get ahead of Denver at 5 to get the whichever QB the Jets don't take.  

Worst case scenario is the Bills give up a ton to get to #2, but at least then they will get the guy they want.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Not trying to convert anyone.  Just trying to tell you that if everyone in the football world- scouts, GM's analysts, etc.- likes Josh Allen but you, a fan listening to WGR and calling in on the whiner line, does not, it might be time for you to take a look in the mirror and try and understand why people who know way more about football than you, do like him.

This is a very valid point. And your breakdown of him was nice. The best comparison I have seen for Josh Allen was earlier today.  In essence; Josh Allen is like a nice piece of furniture from IKEA. He comes in and is really nice and all the parts are in the box, you just need to put it all together.

 

Now, I don't know if Allen will end up more like Big Ben or more like Ryan Mallett. No one does. But Allen needs work (and yes, all the guys coming out do). I don't know if this team is set up for him to put it all together at this time.

 

We saw the drop off when he had less talent. That's exactly what he's walking into here. We also don't have a very experienced QB coach, a defensive minded HC. We don't even have an experienced vet QB that can help him out (Like a McCown). 

 

In the right setting I could see him do well. The Giants for him would be perfect imo. But here? My hunch is we don't have the tools in place to help him take it to the next level. And add to get him we would need to likely add extra high draft picks to the mix and move to get him. Just sounds like a bad move. Again, in the right setting I could see him flourish. I just don't see here as the right fit.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

In all honesty I dont know that much about him

 

Its gonna be interesting 3 years from now when we look back at this draft.....something tells me this could end up being the greatest QB draft ever

Yeah, seems a lot like the Eli/Rivers/Big Ben draft.

 

There should be at least 3 franchise QBs.

 

Were people so miffed over Eli's attitude back then, like they are with Rosen's? I assume so.

 

IMO, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Rudolph most closely fit the mold of that 2003 draft. Allen and Jackson are more of the flashy athletic types who are fools' gold.

 

I don't think any other QB in this draft will be given much of an opportunity. They'll have to hang around as backups for a while in hopes of eventually getting an opportunity.

 

Peterman's been super lucky in that regard. 5th round pick who's been given a fair chance from the get-go.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

TWe saw the drop off when he had less talent. That's exactly what he's walking into here. We also don't have a very experienced QB coach, a defensive minded HC. We don't even have an experienced vet QB that can help him out (Like a McCown). 

 

*sigh* all of what you say is true.  And also worrisome, no matter what QB we draft.

 

 

[metzelaars_lives]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

All those arguments are nothing new. I’ve heard them all

 

but idk what qualifies as unheralded for a JUCO prospect. Sure not many D1 offers but but I knew who he was and 247 which is highly respectable has him as the 5th ranked Dual threat JUCO QB from his class.. that’s a pretty high JUCO ranking 

 

.80 grade

 

 Baker Mayfields was .8383 iirc

 

https://247sports.com/Player/Josh-Allen-78109

Well, Wyoming was the only D1 team to offer him a scholarship, I know that.

[Nihilarian]

This year I've done far more research on the current crop of top six QBs then I have ever done before and my preference is Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph, Jackson.

 

To be honest I don't like both Darnold or Rosen very much as both have issues I can't get over. Darnold with his loopy release that he has to bring it up from his side to throw might do okay in College...

However, I don't see him being this great starting QB that the scouts are raving about as he has far, far too many turnovers. I don't see him as a cold weather guy and with all those fumbles he reminds me of Mr. ButtFumble Mark Sanchez. 

 

Rosen isn't a big guy even though he is tall at 6'4'' 220lbs and although he can move around decently in the pocket he has great difficulty escaping the pocket with rushers after him. Plus he is injury prone two concussions last year and a shoulder injury the year previous. Reminds me of Sam Bradford in that he can be a very slick QB but will probably miss a lot of time due to injuries.

 

I see Allen as a good kid who understands what caused his accuracy problems and he has worked hard since the end of the season to correct that issue. He has been working with Carson Palmer's brother Jordan Palmer and he states he thinks Allen with be a great NFL QB. I agree. 

 

 

 

 

[Domdab99]

LOL at citing McShay and Kiper. They're records of picking studs is just slightly better than a random number generator. 

[metzelaars_lives]

7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

This year I've done far more research on the current crop of top six QBs then I have ever done before and my preference is Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph, Jackson.

 

To be honest I don't like both Darnold or Rosen very much as both have issues I can't get over. Darnold with his loopy release that he has to bring it up from his side to throw might do okay in College...

However, I don't see him being this great starting QB that the scouts are raving about as he has far, far too many turnovers. I don't see him as a cold weather guy and with all those fumbles he reminds me of Mr. ButtFumble Mark Sanchez. 

 

Rosen isn't a big guy even though he is tall at 6'4'' 220lbs and although he can move around decently in the pocket he has great difficulty escaping the pocket with rushers after him. Plus he is injury prone two concussions last year and a shoulder injury the year previous. Reminds me of Sam Bradford in that he can be a very slick QB but will probably miss a lot of time due to injuries.

 

I see Allen as a good kid who understands what caused his accuracy problems and he has worked hard since the end of the season to correct that issue. He has been working with Carson Palmer's brother Jordan Palmer and he states he thinks Allen with be a great NFL QB. I agree. 

 

 

 

 

Josh Allen was an A in his bowl game, an A at the Senior Bowl and an A+ at the combine.  I implore everyone to watch the tape of the three TD passes he made in his bowl game this year.  Each is impressive in its own way.  

Edited April 17, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[Big Blitz]

You know why scouts, fans, and the analysts get these guys wrong so often?

 

It's not that they aren't good prospects.  And some certainly ignore obvious red flags (think Manziel or Russell) to their own peril.  Some just weren't very good.  Think Kizer or EJ.  But many are legit prospects that have a real chance to be great.  But.....

 

I've said this a dozen times already.  WHAT MATTERS IS WHERE THEY END UP.  The organization, the team, the offensive staff----these are the things that most dictates success or failure.  

 

If Fisher wasn't canned and replaced by McVay, Goff would be one year closer to career back up.  Look for Trubisky to make a similar leap this year.  

 

So here is what I see happening.  Predictions!

 

Welcome to Cleveland Sam.  Hue Jackson is a dam good OC.  The weapons they have....ridiculous....IF Gordon is off the liquor and drugs.  I dont know how this plays out.  Its still Cleveland.  But it's a dam exciting offense.

 

Giants.  Great offensive coach.  You get to watch Eli and learn.  Good spot.  This is where Rosen lands.

 

The Jets might ruin whoever they draft.  Good OC but the supporting cast is a disaster.  This will be Mayfield.  He might be good enough to overcome it and thrive in NYC.  

 

Browns go Saquan....Denver goes Chubb.  

 

Bills trade up to 7.  Dont give up more than the 12, a 2nd, and a 3rd in 2019.  They draft Rudolph in the first surprise of round 1.  Whoever we draft has an uphill battle.  No WRs.  New oline.  And a new unknown OC.  

 

Lamar Jackson....welcome to Arizona.  Just hand it to DJ.  

 

Allen ends up in New Orleans.  Perfect spot for him.  

 

6 QBs in round 1.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Big Blitz

[metzelaars_lives]

Just now, Domdab99 said:

LOL at citing McShay and Kiper. They're records of picking studs is just slightly better than a random number generator. 

Your record of knowing the difference between "their" and "they're" is slightly worse than mine when I was in second grade.  

 

I'm not saying they know who is gonna be good.  I'm saying they know who the teams think are gonna be good.  Don't forget, they are the ones who put out these mocks before anyone else.  If you look at it from that perspective, they are really good at what they do.  Every mock you see all offseason takes those two guys' mocks as a starting point and tweaks it from there.

[Ol Dirty B]

4 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Not trying to convert anyone.  Just trying to tell you that if everyone in the football world- scouts, GM's analysts, etc.- likes Josh Allen but you, a fan listening to WGR and calling in on the whiner line, does not, it might be time for you to take a look in the mirror and try and understand why people who know way more about football than you, do like him.

 

There's also people who know a lot more about football than you, and are unbiased, who don't like him. Say maybe Louis Riddick. That's a non starter when you try to make a point.

[Big Blitz]

Fyi my hunch tells me the Bills board looks like this:

 

Darnold 

Mayfield 

Rudolph

Rosen

Jackson 

Allen

 

I am coming to grips with the fact those top 3 teams are likely going QB and the Giants won't trade out.  That team is rebuilding and will be good letting Rosen sit behind Eli for a season.  

[Ol Dirty B]

13 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

This year I've done far more research on the current crop of top six QBs then I have ever done before and my preference is Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph, Jackson.

 

To be honest I don't like both Darnold or Rosen very much as both have issues I can't get over. Darnold with his loopy release that he has to bring it up from his side to throw might do okay in College...

However, I don't see him being this great starting QB that the scouts are raving about as he has far, far too many turnovers. I don't see him as a cold weather guy and with all those fumbles he reminds me of Mr. ButtFumble Mark Sanchez. 

 

Rosen isn't a big guy even though he is tall at 6'4'' 220lbs and although he can move around decently in the pocket he has great difficulty escaping the pocket with rushers after him. Plus he is injury prone two concussions last year and a shoulder injury the year previous. Reminds me of Sam Bradford in that he can be a very slick QB but will probably miss a lot of time due to injuries.

 

I see Allen as a good kid who understands what caused his accuracy problems and he has worked hard since the end of the season to correct that issue. He has been working with Carson Palmer's brother Jordan Palmer and he states he thinks Allen with be a great NFL QB. I agree. 

 

 

 

 

 

Jordan Palmer has to say that. If he doesn't he won't get any work with QB prospects in the future. If he came out and said he's way to inconsistent when it comes to accuracy, Palmer would look terrible in multiple ways.

[Domdab99]

Look at the other threads, Gomer. Almost every analytical metric out there is saying that if Allen becomes a successful NFL QB, it'll be a miracle. But yeah, I'm going to listen to two guys who think how far Allen can throw the ball is relevant. I bet both of them thought losing a brilliant color man like Jon Gruden was a true loss for TV football fans everywhere. 

 

And yes, I got the wrong "their" there. It happens when one is typing and not really caring what it is you are typing, because the other person is so far gone up his own azz that it won't matter what you say. 

 

HU for rolls for a grammar/spelling throwdown? I'd kick your butt, Scooter. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Domdab99

[metzelaars_lives]

1 hour ago, Domdab99 said:

Look at the other threads, Gomer. Almost every analytical metric out there is saying that if Allen becomes a successful NFL QB, it'll be a miracle. But yeah, I'm going to listen to two guys who think how far Allen can throw the ball is relevant. I bet both of them thought losing a brilliant color man like Jon Gruden was a true loss for TV football fans everywhere. 

 

And yes, I got the wrong "their" there. It happens when one is typing and not really caring what it is you are typing, because the other person is so far gone up his own azz that it won't matter what you say. 

 

HU for rolls for a grammar/spelling throwdown? I'd kick your butt, Scooter. 

1. I don't think how far Allen can throw a ball is relevant whatsoever.  I do think how fast he can throw a ball is very relevant and most all experts would agree with me that there has been a correlation between MPH at the combine and NFL success.  AGAIN, look at his first TD pass in his bowl game this year.  I want your honest opinion: how may NFL QB's make that throw right now?  Tom Brady doesn't.  Peyton Manning could've never have dreamed of making that throw.  It's at :33.  Feel free to watch his other two beautiful TD throws as well.

 

 

2. Look at CBSsports.com and their mock drafts.  Look at Charlie Casserley's mock draft.  Look at Mike Mayock's rankings.  Look at every mock draft on NFL Network.  You really think that McShay and Kiper are the only two guys in the football world who anticipate Allen going toward the top of the draft?  He's going to go toward the top of the draft.

 

3. I really don't care what Ralph from Dunkirk is saying in the other threads.  That's precisely why I started this one.

Edited April 17, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

15 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Look at the other threads, Gomer. Almost every analytical metric out there is saying that if Allen becomes a successful NFL QB, it'll be a miracle. But yeah, I'm going to listen to two guys who think how far Allen can throw the ball is relevant. I bet both of them thought losing a brilliant color man like Jon Gruden was a true loss for TV football fans everywhere. 

 

And yes, I got the wrong "their" there. It happens when one is typing and not really caring what it is you are typing, because the other person is so far gone up his own azz that it won't matter what you say. 

 

HU for rolls for a grammar/spelling throwdown? I'd kick your butt, Scooter. 

keyboard bully

[Domdab99]

Just now, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

keyboard bully

 

I can beat people silly with a keyboard.

[Nihilarian]

I gave up attempting to enlighten some Bills fans to a better point of view on why most of the scout's/draft analyst's world has the kid as a top-five pick. As they have read those inaccuracy problems are uncorrectable by so many, and it's untrue. 

 

First off, Allen has only played two full seasons of college ball so there is indeed room for him to further develop as so many college QBs improve their accuracy over a four-year college career. The guy showed up in for his first season as a 198lb scrawny kid who has grown to 240lb man. Yes, that's right as these are boys/just kids who are developing and growing into mature adults.

 

Second, Allen has already shown great improvement in his accuracy and touch since the end of the college football season when he played in the senior bowl, at the combine and at his pro day. He knows and understands his issues and has worked very hard to correct them.

 

This young man could easily become another Big Ben, Arron Rodgers.

 

This is why in so many mock drafts Josh Allen is either the first pick overall or going to in the top six. Bills fans should stop worrying because I highly doubt Buffalo will ever get a chance to draft him. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

So I moved to Denver, from Buffalo, in 2002 and almost immediately adopted Wyoming as my college team (pretty much because I think they have the best uniforms in sports).  Anyway I have ramped up my fandom in recent years and, at this point, am a pretty diehard fan.  In short, I have watched every game Josh Allen has played as a college QB.  I have driven up to Laramie to see them/him play four times (three times in 2016 and once last year).  Incidentally, they were 3-1 in those games and he played good to great in all of them.  The win against Boise State (who was undefeated and ranked in the teens at the time) in 2016 was one of the best football games I've ever attended in my life (the greatest comeback against the Oilers obviously being #1).  

 

So this is NOT a Josh Allen excuse thread, nor am I a Josh Allen "fanboy."  And full disclosure, I probably have him as the #2 or 3 QB on my board (you can call me a Mayfield fanboy if you want).  This is a thread containing FACTS for all the Biff from Tonawandas who think they suddenly know more about football than NFL scouts, analysts, GM's and coaches.  Just trying to dispel a lot of disinformation floating around.  

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen "wasn't good" in college: FALSE

 

The 2016 Wyoming squad was loaded with offensive talent.  Literally five of their key offensive players were seniors who played with NFL teams into preseason last year and four are currently on NFL rosters.  That being said, it was Josh Allen's first year as a college QB.  With all of those guys as juniors the previous season, they went 2-10.  With Allen, they ended up 8-6 but were 8-3 before losing a meaningless game against New Mexico and then two nailbiters against San Diego State (MWC Championship game) and BYU (bowl game).  He was very good.  He went from an unheralded JuCo transfer to a guy being thrown around as the #1 pick in this draft halfway through his first college season.  Really ask yourself, Biff, if a guy could do that without being "good."  His completion percentage was lower than you might like but he had a propensity, especially in 2016, to throw the ball downfield A LOT.  For perspective, Brian Hill (now on the Bengals), played most every down, was second in the nation in rushing that year and is a very elusive back.  He had NINE RECEPTIONS ALL SEASON.  Ask yourself, if Hill caught 40 balls and Allen's completion percentage was 66% instead of 56% in 2016, would we even be having that conversation?  Even with his 56% completion percentage, he was named the 2nd team MWC QB (Brett Rypien, Mark's son, had better numbers, but few would argue Allen wasn't a more impactful player that year) as well as the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017.  Not bad for not being good, huh?

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen had no weapons in 2017: TRUE

 

I was on here trying to tell anyone who would listen, prior to the 2017 season, that Josh Allen's numbers would be way down.  It's easy for you, Biff, to call that an excuse but here's a little perspective: he lost his top two running backs, his top two receivers, his tight end and his center (again, four of these guys are in the NFL now).  Their leading rusher went from a guy who finished 2nd in FBS to a freshman who was LITERALLY converted from a linebacker right before the season started.  They struggled a ton on offense in 2017.  Allen's numbers did not impress.  Anyone who follows Wyoming football could've told you that would be the case.  All of their skill position players were unheralded freshmen and sophomores playing their first college football games, save for two guys who played sparingly in 2016 and aren't very good (see: CJ Johnson's drop of a beautiful deep ball for a would-be TD against Iowa in week 1).  So when Biff is on here telling you that Josh Allen struggled against Iowa and Oregon, well, no s***.  Of course he did.  And you know what, as someone who follows the program, his attitude literally could not have been better all last season.  Not once did he even come remotely close to making an excuse for his numbers or complaining about the glaring lack of talent around him.  Oh yeah, Wyoming was 8-3 with Josh Allen in 2017 and 0-2 without him.  Oh yeah part 2, watch his three TD passes from the bowl game against Central Michigan and tell me how many PRO QB's make all three of those throws.

 

 

FACT CHECK: 

 

There is more to Josh Allen than his "strong arm" and "big hands": TRUE

 

Did you know that in addition to having the best arm we've maybe ever seen coming out of college football that Josh Allen is unbelievably strong, elusive, can juke and bowl over defenders, and makes throws on the run and across his body as well as any prospect I've ever seen?  Well that happens to be the case.  The Cam Newton comparisons are not crazy.  Watch his highlights from the first San Diego State game, the UNLV game from 2016- hell, before you go spouting off, watch a freaking highlight tape of the guy.

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

The comparisons to JaMarcus Russell are beyond insulting: TRUE

 

Go on youtube.com and watch a video of former teammates talking about JaMarcus Russell skipping meetings, being utterly disengaged, eating copious amounts of s****y food to the point where he weighed in at 300 lbs., etc.  Also guessing JaMarcus Russell didn't score a 37 on the wonderlic.  Josh Allen is as good of a teammate and leader as you will find in the college football ranks.

 

 

Will all of this translate into him being a great pro?  I don't know.  I absolutely see the bust potential.  He is still unrefined.  He would be best-suited, in my opinion, going to a team like San Diego.  He absolutely has a gunslinger mentality.  But to all you Biff from Tonawandas out there, so sure of yourselves (God does this remind me of when half the board was mocking Carolina for taking Newton #1), I really, really hope you eat a fistful of crow and that you have the sacks to show up and admit you were wrong.  An acceptable stance is, "gee I'm not buying the Allen hype but if an NFL team sees it, I gotta think they know more than I do."  That's fair.  But the unbelievable levels of ignorance on this board, ie. "I wouldn't take him in the fifth round; I will no longer be a Bills fan if they take him, etc"... dude just give it a rest already.  PLEASE.  I am so over it.  At this point, I am so sick of hearing from the naysayers that I will be rooting for Josh Allen no matter who he gets drafted by, and that includes the Jets.  Not the Dolphins though.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

The prb is in 2016 his comp % was less then last yr even though he had a better team in 16. I'm not crazy about stats but what i see is a total lack of anticipation skills and a lack of arm talent he cant throw in levels consistently.  

 

He's a project with great upside but that's always tricky that word upside u hardly ever see the player reach that peak.  At #12 i would see yea u can make that pk but trading up is absolutely insane.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

This year I've done far more research on the current crop of top six QBs then I have ever done before and my preference is Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph, Jackson.

 

To be honest I don't like both Darnold or Rosen very much as both have issues I can't get over. Darnold with his loopy release that he has to bring it up from his side to throw might do okay in College...

However, I don't see him being this great starting QB that the scouts are raving about as he has far, far too many turnovers. I don't see him as a cold weather guy and with all those fumbles he reminds me of Mr. ButtFumble Mark Sanchez. 

 

Rosen isn't a big guy even though he is tall at 6'4'' 220lbs and although he can move around decently in the pocket he has great difficulty escaping the pocket with rushers after him. Plus he is injury prone two concussions last year and a shoulder injury the year previous. Reminds me of Sam Bradford in that he can be a very slick QB but will probably miss a lot of time due to injuries.

 

I see Allen as a good kid who understands what caused his accuracy problems and he has worked hard since the end of the season to correct that issue. He has been working with Carson Palmer's brother Jordan Palmer and he states he thinks Allen with be a great NFL QB. I agree. 

 

 

 

 

 

Butt Fumble!       By the way, I think Josh Allen will be just fine and if we draft him, Go Bills!

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Peace Frog

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

Honestly, I'd start with the being good part of the equation. Maybe he was good for a college QB but, as a pro prospect, he's mightily underwhelming.

 

When you reference the chances of a higher completion % if Hill catches a lot more passes, I know what you're getting at. However, his stats aren't what make him inaccurate in my mind. I've seen him absolutely fire swing passes at his backs with horrible placement/touch. His touch in general frightens me but moreso in the short/quick game. Someone else chimed in about this (I forgot who, feel free to jump in if you see this), that there's no rhyme or reason to his misfires. With Darnold/Lamar, I see misses mainly due to their base. With Allen, there's not one consistent element to his inconsistencies. Ergo, how do you fix what seems to be natural inaccuracy with no root cause?

 

Josh has his plus points, of course he does. In most physical regards, he's the prototype. Pound for pound, I'd consider him equal to Lamar as an athlete. Much like Patrick Mahomes, he's definitely got an 'it factor' about him. His highlight reel will leave you drooling because he's not devoid of talent. I don't want to fault yourself or anyone else that likes him for doing so. In another world where he's a plucky underdog that goes on Day 2/3, I'd probably understand taking the plunge on him.

 

I just can't shake this feeling that I've seen him very recently in a Bills jersey because he's nearly word-for-word how I felt about Cardale Jones.

I agree with u 100% . The arm talent part is very important.  When to put touch on a ball is not a thought its a reaction its natural. Allen is definitely not a natural passer. 

 

When it comes to Mahomes the only thing people should compare is the arm strength.  But when it comes to being a passer there is really no comparison at all.  Mahomes is a Gunslingers Gunslinger yes the system he ran at Texas Tech was easy but the passes he made were as complicated as it gets.  Mahomes knows when to power it in they're or throw it with touch over the Lbers and under the Safeties.  He can throw from a variety of platforms and put the ball where it needs to be. Allen is not even close to Mahomes in my opinion and people should stop mentioning them in the same way.  

 

The Bills made a huge mistake not taking Mahomes last yr . Mcd wanted to help his buddy Reid out. So he gave him what we could of had . Yes some will say how bout Tre White well could of traded up for him at 27 or 28 and got him.  Teams were trading bk into late first for very cheap. Yes we could of had our cake and eaten it to. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Weird that in your 1st fact check you contradict your own facts by saying 2016 was his 1st year starting in college despite also mentioning that he transferred to Wyoming from a Juco, which means Junior COLLEGE.

 

And did you seriously just say the Cam Newton comparison isn't far off and bring up competition like San Diego State in the same breath as a QB who played powerhouses like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Clemson and won a National Championship game against Oregon

Edited April 17, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

His tape from 2016 or 2017 is just not first round Quarterback material in my opinion. It really is as simple as that. 

 

He will go in the first and some team will look at the ceiling and say "woah if I can get him to that level". 

 

I am not a big evaluator of ceilings. I look at what the guy is in the NFL if he never improves from today.... and in my opinion if that is the case with Allen he is a guy who will start a couple of years and flame out. 

 

As for if I am wrong I won't "face the music"... what music do you want me to face? Public flogging? I always admit on here the draft prospects I was wrong about. There is a thread earlier in the offseason containing many of them. I don't hide from things I got wrong in any part of my life... you don't learn things that way. 

[CSBill]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I gave up attempting to enlighten some Bills fans to a better point of view on why most of the scout's/draft analyst's world has the kid as a top-five pick. As they have read those inaccuracy problems are uncorrectable by so many, and it's untrue. 

 

First off, Allen has only played two full seasons of college ball so there is indeed room for him to further develop as so many college QBs improve their accuracy over a four-year college career. The guy showed up in for his first season as a 198lb scrawny kid who has grown to 240lb man. Yes, that's right as these are boys/just kids who are developing and growing into mature adults.

 

Second, Allen has already shown great improvement in his accuracy and touch since the end of the college football season when he played in the senior bowl, at the combine and at his pro day. He knows and understands his issues and has worked very hard to correct them.

 

This young man could easily become another Big Ben, Arron Rodgers.

 

This is why in so many mock drafts Josh Allen is either the first pick overall or going to in the top six. Bills fans should stop worrying because I highly doubt Buffalo will ever get a chance to draft him. 

 

No, you are so wrong! ..... The many experts that contribute to this board know so much more than those people who get paid to do it for all those NFL teams, and we especially know more than those guys (and gals) who get paid to do it for TV shows. :-)

[Alaska Darin]

9 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

So I moved to Denver, from Buffalo, in 2002 and almost immediately adopted Wyoming as my college team (pretty much because I think they have the best uniforms in sports).  Anyway I have ramped up my fandom in recent years and, at this point, am a pretty diehard fan.  In short, I have watched every game Josh Allen has played as a college QB.  I have driven up to Laramie to see them/him play four times (three times in 2016 and once last year).  Incidentally, they were 3-1 in those games and he played good to great in all of them.  The win against Boise State (who was undefeated and ranked in the teens at the time) in 2016 was one of the best football games I've ever attended in my life (the greatest comeback against the Oilers obviously being #1).  

 

So this is NOT a Josh Allen excuse thread, nor am I a Josh Allen "fanboy."  And full disclosure, I probably have him as the #2 or 3 QB on my board (you can call me a Mayfield fanboy if you want).  This is a thread containing FACTS for all the Biff from Tonawandas who think they suddenly know more about football than NFL scouts, analysts, GM's and coaches.  Just trying to dispel a lot of disinformation floating around.  

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen "wasn't good" in college: FALSE

 

The 2016 Wyoming squad was loaded with offensive talent.  Literally five of their key offensive players were seniors who played with NFL teams into preseason last year and four are currently on NFL rosters.  That being said, it was Josh Allen's first year as a college QB.  With all of those guys as juniors the previous season, they went 2-10.  With Allen, they ended up 8-6 but were 8-3 before losing a meaningless game against New Mexico and then two nailbiters against San Diego State (MWC Championship game) and BYU (bowl game).  He was very good.  He went from an unheralded JuCo transfer to a guy being thrown around as the #1 pick in this draft halfway through his first college season.  Really ask yourself, Biff, if a guy could do that without being "good."  His completion percentage was lower than you might like but he had a propensity, especially in 2016, to throw the ball downfield A LOT.  For perspective, Brian Hill (now on the Bengals), played most every down, was second in the nation in rushing that year and is a very elusive back.  He had NINE RECEPTIONS ALL SEASON.  Ask yourself, if Hill caught 40 balls and Allen's completion percentage was 66% instead of 56% in 2016, would we even be having that conversation?  Even with his 56% completion percentage, he was named the 2nd team MWC QB (Brett Rypien, Mark's son, had better numbers, but few would argue Allen wasn't a more impactful player that year) as well as the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017.  Not bad for not being good, huh?

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen had no weapons in 2017: TRUE

 

I was on here trying to tell anyone who would listen, prior to the 2017 season, that Josh Allen's numbers would be way down.  It's easy for you, Biff, to call that an excuse but here's a little perspective: he lost his top two running backs, his top two receivers, his tight end and his center (again, four of these guys are in the NFL now).  Their leading rusher went from a guy who finished 2nd in FBS to a freshman who was LITERALLY converted from a linebacker right before the season started.  They struggled a ton on offense in 2017.  Allen's numbers did not impress.  Anyone who follows Wyoming football could've told you that would be the case.  All of their skill position players were unheralded freshmen and sophomores playing their first college football games, save for two guys who played sparingly in 2016 and aren't very good (see: CJ Johnson's drop of a beautiful deep ball for a would-be TD against Iowa in week 1).  So when Biff is on here telling you that Josh Allen struggled against Iowa and Oregon, well, no s***.  Of course he did.  And you know what, as someone who follows the program, his attitude literally could not have been better all last season.  Not once did he even come remotely close to making an excuse for his numbers or complaining about the glaring lack of talent around him.  Oh yeah, Wyoming was 8-3 with Josh Allen in 2017 and 0-2 without him.  Oh yeah part 2, watch his three TD passes from the bowl game against Central Michigan and tell me how many PRO QB's make all three of those throws.

 

 

FACT CHECK: 

 

There is more to Josh Allen than his "strong arm" and "big hands": TRUE

 

Did you know that in addition to having the best arm we've maybe ever seen coming out of college football that Josh Allen is unbelievably strong, elusive, can juke and bowl over defenders, and makes throws on the run and across his body as well as any prospect I've ever seen?  Well that happens to be the case.  The Cam Newton comparisons are not crazy.  Watch his highlights from the first San Diego State game, the UNLV game from 2016- hell, before you go spouting off, watch a freaking highlight tape of the guy.

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

The comparisons to JaMarcus Russell are beyond insulting: TRUE

 

Go on youtube.com and watch a video of former teammates talking about JaMarcus Russell skipping meetings, being utterly disengaged, eating copious amounts of s****y food to the point where he weighed in at 300 lbs., etc.  Also guessing JaMarcus Russell didn't score a 37 on the wonderlic.  Josh Allen is as good of a teammate and leader as you will find in the college football ranks.

 

 

Will all of this translate into him being a great pro?  I don't know.  I absolutely see the bust potential.  He is still unrefined.  He would be best-suited, in my opinion, going to a team like San Diego.  He absolutely has a gunslinger mentality.  But to all you Biff from Tonawandas out there, so sure of yourselves (God does this remind me of when half the board was mocking Carolina for taking Newton #1), I really, really hope you eat a fistful of crow and that you have the sacks to show up and admit you were wrong.  An acceptable stance is, "gee I'm not buying the Allen hype but if an NFL team sees it, I gotta think they know more than I do."  That's fair.  But the unbelievable levels of ignorance on this board, ie. "I wouldn't take him in the fifth round; I will no longer be a Bills fan if they take him, etc"... dude just give it a rest already.  PLEASE.  I am so over it.  At this point, I am so sick of hearing from the naysayers that I will be rooting for Josh Allen no matter who he gets drafted by, and that includes the Jets.  Not the Dolphins though.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

This board would have lost its mind if it (and the internet with all the "information") was around in 1983 when we "wasted" a draft pick on Jim Kelly.

 

"He barely even played his Senior year!"

"He's injury prone!"

"He only completed over 60% of his passes in ONE season and that's probably because he only threw 81 passes due to injury!"
"He barely has more TDs than interceptions!"

 

No one in the world knows how to accurately project an NFL QB.  We have all the data in the world to back that up.