"Giants 'don't like' Josh Rosen".

[FearLess Price]

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

Giants had decent draft?  

Gettleman overplayed his picks value and no one would trade with him. I hope Beane learns from his ineptitude.

FAIL.

 

Ineptitude? Teams havent even played pre season yet. You must not watch the Giants cuz Gettlemans been handling business in NJ.  He grabbed a top RB and top OG to go along with the Solid LT they picked up in FA, than added pieces to an already decent defense. The Giants got hammered with injuries last year and this draft and fa they bplstered their weaknesses on the OL and in the backfield. They will compete for a WC this year as long as they stay moderatly healthy at key spots. You can argue he could've traded back and accumulated a lot of picks but at this point thats a hypothetical. If they hit on the 1st 2 picks their team is instantly better, same as us.

[NoSaint]

55 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think he fell because he's an arrogant little prick and due to his injury/concussion history.  I don't think it has anything to do with politics or with him being outspoken.

 

Team chemistry, to me, is the biggest concern; by all accounts, the kid is a major dick.  And in a league that has a laserpoint focus on head injuries, even if the concussion "history" is more perceived than real ... I think it weighed heavily on teams' draft boards.

 

I think you may be overstating “by all accounts”

[Chris66]

Moment Gettlemen said you have to "run and stop the run" he should have been fired.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

Moment Gettlemen said you have to "run and stop the run" he should have been fired.

 

Huh, why would that be? 

 

Are you thinking it's because in the divisional round of the playoffs last year, only 3 of the final 8 teams had a run game out of the top-10 .....and all three of those teams LOST (Atlanta, Titans, and Pittsburgh)?   Conf. championship was #3 run game vs #7 run game (#3 wins), #10 run game vs #1 run game (#10 wins)

Superbowl was #3 vs #10 (#3 wins)

 

Kind of looks to me like you have to run and stop the run in the NFL.

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup and I agree.  As much of some people think people turned off the nfl because of other factors, I think part of the reason was because they league kinda sucked to watch last year. The nfl is much better with a lot of good qbs.

 

IMHO the league needs to rein the officiating into control and make it consistent.   I turned off a bunch of games last year which had nothing to do with pre-game antics and everything to do with being disgusted by how inconsistent officiating impacted many of the games.

[ColoradoBills]

So I log into The Stadium Wall this morning to see Tyrod Taylor and Josh Rosen threads at the top of Page 1.

Confused, I check the calendar and confirm it is in fact June 2nd.

[HOUSE]

I lost my pre draft notes, they got old so I tossed them....

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I think he fell because he's an arrogant little prick and due to his injury/concussion history.  I don't think it has anything to do with politics or with him being outspoken.

 

Team chemistry, to me, is the biggest concern; by all accounts, the kid is a major dick.  And in a league that has a laserpoint focus on head injuries, even if the concussion "history" is more perceived than real ... I think it weighed heavily on teams' draft boards.

Late May I went up to UCLA for an advising conference.....at the Luskin Center where we stayed there was a event going on that several UCLA student's attended and my group stopped by.

 

The student population is generally not a fan of Josh Rosen.....I think the proper term used by several students was "entitled" and "arrogant ass".

 

This is the direct opposite of the trip up to Oregon me and my son took for his recruitment where Marcus Marriotta was exceptional and the oregon kids loved him and he spoke to a lot of them by name as we were walking across campus.

 

P.S.  It is amazing how far the tech for the athletic facilities as come.......the security and the facilities really upgraded when we me and my son to a recruitment visit up to UCLA the first time.......you would love it

[njbuff]

This is going to be a long 99 days.

 

I suggest summer plans.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

Keep in mind it doesn't have to be one or the other.  It's not a shell game where we know there is only one good QB in the draft.  It's quite possible Rosen does wonderful in Arizona, and Allen does remarkable in Buffalo.

This is my feeling as well.....this was a QB draft and the biggest one in quite some time......there is a possibility that as many as 5 starting QBs come out of this draft.

 

I am just glad the bills got in on the sweepstakes and didnt screw around looking at "other talent on the board" we still also got Edmunds with a 1st round pick.

[BurpleBull]

On 4/10/2018 at 11:04 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you can go to sleep without worries.  The Patriots want to win.  They need to restock other parts of their team, and no one hits 100% on draft picks.

I'll go further and make a bold statement: no team with an established Franchise QB is gonna expend the draft picks to trade up and draft a QB.

 

Moreover, usually teams drafting at the top, take a player that fills needs for them.

 

I just made your bold statement bolder.

 

The Ravens expended draft picks trading up to grab Lamar Jackson.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

I just made your bold statement bolder.

 

The Ravens expended draft picks trading up to grab Lamar Jackson.

 

That's quite true: " the Ravens sent their 52nd, 125th picks and a 2019 second-round selection to Philadelphia in exchange for the 32nd and 132nd selections this year"

 

It's also true that context matters, and if you go back and look at the context of the statement you bolded, " no team with an established Franchise QB is gonna expend the draft picks to trade up and draft a QB.", you will see it was made in the context of discussions of expending the sort of draft capital needed to trade up into the top of the first round.  Specifically, it was made in the context of your post:

 

  On 4/9/2018 at 2:33 PM, BurpleBull said:

Giants are apparently now dangling Josh Rosen out there for the entire NFL and any club willing to pay up to get him.

Would sure hate to wake up tomorrow and learn that the Patriots packaged their picks to secure the No.2 spot and Josh Rosen.

 

As you can see, that didn't happen, and neither did any other team with an established franchise QB expend the draft capital to trade up into the top of the first round (the original context).

[BB@Shooter]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen missed more games than Rosen in college. And not one of his teammates have said one word negative about him.  

 

Personally,, I think things worked out great for Rosen.  Near home, playing for a pretty well run franchise. I also think Fitzgerald will be a great mentor for him.  But Allen and Rosen will be forever linked here. Hopefully, McBeane (who’s offensive evaluations have been shaky at best so far) made the right choice.

Allen missing more games than Rosen is misleading and you know it. In his first game he got hurt and had pins and screws put in his shoulder, knocking him out for the year. Last year he got hurt in the Air Force game and missed the 2nd half and two more full games. He came back and played in his bowl game. Something Rosen could have done but he decided to protect his ass in the draft and didn't play. Most of the media says he was OK to play in the bowl game. And how did sitting out his bowl game help Rosen in the draft? So Allen didn't actually miss as many games as you allude to. He was granted a redshirt for his injury of playing half of a game 1 season, his first season at Wyoming.

Edited June 2, 2018 by BB@Shooter

[John from Riverside]

Just now, BB@Shooter said:

Allen missing more games than Rosen is mis eading

Yes it absolutely is.

 

Its not a fair stat because Allen had an injury that definately takes longer to heal but DOES heal.

 

Concussions on the other hand it is highly questionable if you ever truly heal from that....its a injury that you only have so many and then you are forced to retire.

 

Also based on their style of play Allen is much more durable then Rosen......because actually ran with the ball at times and has excellent athletism.  Rosen is a pure pocket passing qb who would get killed if he played the same way.

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Ineptitude? Teams havent even played pre season yet. You must not watch the Giants cuz Gettlemans been handling business in NJ.  He grabbed a top RB and top OG to go along with the Solid LT they picked up in FA, than added pieces to an already decent defense. The Giants got hammered with injuries last year and this draft and fa they bplstered their weaknesses on the OL and in the backfield. They will compete for a WC this year as long as they stay moderatly healthy at key spots. You can argue he could've traded back and accumulated a lot of picks but at this point thats a hypothetical. If they hit on the 1st 2 picks their team is instantly better, same as us.

It's just my opinion, however, I have seen this movie time and again. lately with Flacco at Baltimore and Carson at Cards.

Gettleman had a chance to get a stud QB without paying extra as he had #2 and could have moved down for net advantage of picks and still picked Rosen. Instead he now may have to mortgage the future to move up, like teams drafting in late 1st, when he needs QB. He choose to ride Eli which I believe will prove to be a fail.

I firmly believe Eli is done and Giants will fold like a house of cards this year. 

Time will tell and I have been wrong before.

 

I did predict Maclin going to a ship sinking slowly in Baltimore was correct.?

[SouthNYfan]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Huh, why would that be? 

 

Are you thinking it's because in the divisional round of the playoffs last year, only 3 of the final 8 teams had a run game out of the top-10 .....and all three of those teams LOST (Atlanta, Titans, and Pittsburgh)?   Conf. championship was #3 run game vs #7 run game (#3 wins), #10 run game vs #1 run game (#10 wins)

Superbowl was #3 vs #10 (#3 wins)

 

Kind of looks to me like you have to run and stop the run in the NFL.

 

IMHO the league needs to rein the officiating into control and make it consistent.   I turned off a bunch of games last year which had nothing to do with pre-game antics and everything to do with being disgusted by how inconsistent officiating impacted many of the games.

 

I'm not so sure you have to be a top running team though, but you definitely have to be somewhat balanced.

Stopping the run is very important, especially when you can do it with just your front 4-5 guys and leave the rest to defend the pass.

Being consistent against the run can help to negate 2nd and short for the opposing team.

Look at the advanced metrics of pittsburgh's defense after shazier went down.

They gave up run plays of 7+ yards on something like 68% of rushes (i'm trying to remember, too lazy to look it up)

That led to a lot of extended drives against them.

Anyway, I think a balanced offense is very important.

Passing and Pass Defense (including pass rush) are the most important things, but, you cannot just ignore running/run defense.

I truly do think that the Giants taking Barkley was a mistake @ #2 though.

He's now a top 3 paid back in the NFL day 1, and they could have gotten a guy 85%+ as good as him in the second round, while stockpiling a few picks.

In the end though, them passing on Chubb led to Denver taking him, which led to us giving up less to move up and get Allen, which led to us having that second 1st rounder to get Edmunds, so really, even if Gettleman made a mistake, it benefited us significantly, so I'm okay with it =D

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's quite true: " the Ravens sent their 52nd, 125th picks and a 2019 second-round selection to Philadelphia in exchange for the 32nd and 132nd selections this year"

 

It's also true that context matters, and if you go back and look at the context of the statement you bolded, " no team with an established Franchise QB is gonna expend the draft picks to trade up and draft a QB.", you will see it was made in the context of discussions of expending the sort of draft capital needed to trade up into the top of the first round.  Specifically, it was made in the context of your post:

 

Giants are apparently now dangling Josh Rosen out there for the entire NFL and any club willing to pay up to get him.

Would sure hate to wake up tomorrow and learn that the Patriots packaged their picks to secure the No.2 spot and Josh Rosen.

 

As you can see, that didn't happen, and neither did any other team with an established franchise QB expend the draft capital to trade up into the top of the first round (the original context).

 

Nope...I learned yesterday that disregarding context is very much encouraged in here.

 

That is my offering.

 

It really is too bad that the Ravens messed around and traded up for Flacco's replacement, because then you would've been right.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Necrobump anyone?

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

I guess ill be that guy...

 

After the PR nightmare that was Elis benching in 2018, the Giants ended up taking Barkley at #2 going all in on Mannings last few years at QB.

 

As for Rosen? Well conservative owners and Republican influence turned his outspoken political beliefs into a smear campaign labeled as "personality flaws" or "@sshole syndrome". Even tho he was the most developed passer in the draft he ended up going #10 to the Arizona Cardinals, where he proclaimed "there were 9 mistakes before me",  forgetting to do the math of qbs vs other positions taken before him. Cards took him after failing to trade up for Allen. Early reports seem to insinuate Rosen might beat out Bradford in preseason or at least start if Bradford gets hurt. He is the definitive #2 qb.

Where Josh Allen still sits at #3 on the depth chart behind career back up AJ McCarron and 2nd year struggle QB Pick5Petermen. As for the Giants? They had a decent draft, as long as they stay healthy they will challenge for a WC spot at least, this year.

 

You are not the only one of "those guys". I 100% agree on why he dropped. 

[Cripple Creek]

6 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

I guess ill be that guy...

 

After the PR nightmare that was Elis benching in 2018, the Giants ended up taking Barkley at #2 going all in on Mannings last few years at QB.

 

As for Rosen? Well conservative owners and Republican influence turned his outspoken political beliefs into a smear campaign labeled as "personality flaws" or "@sshole syndrome". Even tho he was the most developed passer in the draft he ended up going #10 to the Arizona Cardinals, where he proclaimed "there were 9 mistakes before me",  forgetting to do the math of qbs vs other positions taken before him. Cards took him after failing to trade up for Allen. Early reports seem to insinuate Rosen might beat out Bradford in preseason or at least start if Bradford gets hurt. He is the definitive #2 qb.

Where Josh Allen still sits at #3 on the depth chart behind career back up AJ McCarron and 2nd year struggle QB Pick5Petermen. As for the Giants? They had a decent draft, as long as they stay healthy they will challenge for a WC spot at least, this year.

For reals? You resurrected a thread long dead because Allen has been playing with the 3's? during OTAs? 

 

Does it make you feel any better that he was #1 for the rookie camp?

[John from Riverside]

46 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

For reals? You resurrected a thread long dead because Allen has been playing with the 3's? during OTAs? 

 

Does it make you feel any better that he was #1 for the rookie camp?

Pretty ridiculous isn’t it

Edited June 2, 2018 by John from Riverside

[DC Tom]

7 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

I guess ill be that guy...

 

After the PR nightmare that was Elis benching in 2018, the Giants ended up taking Barkley at #2 going all in on Mannings last few years at QB.

 

As for Rosen? Well conservative owners and Republican influence turned his outspoken political beliefs into a smear campaign labeled as "personality flaws" or "@sshole syndrome". Even tho he was the most developed passer in the draft he ended up going #10 to the Arizona Cardinals, where he proclaimed "there were 9 mistakes before me",  forgetting to do the math of qbs vs other positions taken before him. Cards took him after failing to trade up for Allen. Early reports seem to insinuate Rosen might beat out Bradford in preseason or at least start if Bradford gets hurt. He is the definitive #2 qb.

Where Josh Allen still sits at #3 on the depth chart behind career back up AJ McCarron and 2nd year struggle QB Pick5Petermen. As for the Giants? They had a decent draft, as long as they stay healthy they will challenge for a WC spot at least, this year.

 

Maybe you should have been the other guy.

54 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

For reals? You resurrected a thread long dead because Allen has been playing with the 3's? during OTAs? 

 

Let's not criticize him for necro-posting.  Instead of starting a new thread, he found the old thread that applies and posted it there instead.  He was entirely right to do so, and should be lauded for it.

 

Instead, criticize him where it's deserved: his opinion is nonsense of the highest order, and he should be ashamed of himself.  He actually credited a right-wing conspiracy with !@#$ing up the Bills' QB situation. 

[Augie]

50 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Let's not criticize him for necro-posting.  Instead of starting a new thread, he found the old thread that applies and posted it there instead.  He was entirely right to do so, and should be lauded for it.

 

Instead, criticize him where it's deserved: his opinion is nonsense of the highest order, and he should be ashamed of himself.  He actually credited a right-wing conspiracy with !@#$ing up the Bills' QB situation. 

 

So we should put him on a pedestal, where it’s easier to throw rocks at him?   Hmmm   ?

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

 

Let's not criticize him for necro-posting.  Instead of starting a new thread, he found the old thread that applies and posted it there instead.  He was entirely right to do so, and should be lauded for it.

He’s a dead thread !@#$er??

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Little early for this.  It’s finny now but the Giants were a trendy SB before last season.  On paper, their offense looks explosive. I would have taken the qb but I think Barkley isn’t really good.

 

i personally feel Rosen is a better qb than Allen and fell because he is outspoken.  Owners are very sensitive to that after Kaepernick and owners are mainly conservative.  I believe e that played a big part as well as owners just want their players to be mindless pieces of meat.

 

He fell because he’s a hard guy to like and that’s not a great trait in your QB.  He fell because their are questions about how engaged he is with football.   He fell because his leadership abilities are in question.  He fell because he had 2 concussions and another injury last year.  There are lots of reasons he fell, politics aren’t one of them IMO.  

 

And he only fell to 10, people act like he had a Ryan Mallet fall where he would have been a top 15 pick but fell to the third due to character concerns.

 

There were a lot of good QB prospects this year, so those things above matter.  And personally, I think this “most pro ready” is grossly over exaggerated and manufactured into belief by constant media repetition of that.  The kid comes across as mentally weak and I think he is going to struggle to deal with the down moments in the NFL and have real concerns about whether he will have enough desire and passion to push through them to be great.  

[Bing Bong]

I heard the Browns didn't like him either

[4thandGoal]

this thread should have been deleted already... ROsen is not with the Giants so this thread holds no water,,, 

[Seanbillsfan2206]

12 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Since when is being real pessimistic?  Am i wrong? Is JA not 3rd on our depth chart? Is Rosen not the #2? Did the Giants not invest in Elis last years with who they drafted? Did the Giants not go to the playoffs in 2017? The only reason the Giants didnt make it back to the WC last year is cuz they got decimated by injuries.

 

Im saying he fell due to his outspoken antics. Most NFL owners dont want to deal with political backlash because they swap spit with politicians throuh their other business ventures. Owners dont want the smoke in political arenas. Look up Jerry Jones outing Trump on the stand in the Kap case as a hint to why. It is what it is. I think both players can become great QBs, Rosen will be better in the short term.  Allen might be better in the long term. Might.. lets see how it plays out.

 

Its a dirty job but somones gotta do it.

 

Team chemistry is a bigger factor in who teams bring in the locker room than most know. Allen missed more time injured in college than Rosen did so i wont buy that excuse. It has to be bc of the outspoken talk and not working the media as a face. So he got labeled as a silver spoon liberal with a big mouth. Wealthy owners that mingle in political arenas dont wanna deal with that, they will not make that guy the face of a franchise unless their hand is forced like Arizonas was.

Friendly reminder: It’s only June 3rd. Depth charts don’t mean **** right now. Our coach wants our rookie QB to earn his way. Arizona’s coach feels differently about his rookie QB....

[FearLess Price]

20 hours ago, cba fan said:

It's just my opinion, however, I have seen this movie time and again. lately with Flacco at Baltimore and Carson at Cards.

Gettleman had a chance to get a stud QB without paying extra as he had #2 and could have moved down for net advantage of picks and still picked Rosen. Instead he now may have to mortgage the future to move up, like teams drafting in late 1st, when he needs QB. He choose to ride Eli which I believe will prove to be a fail.

I firmly believe Eli is done and Giants will fold like a house of cards this year. 

Time will tell and I have been wrong before.

 

I did predict Maclin going to a ship sinking slowly in Baltimore was correct.?

 

The ownership was not happy with the media backlash after benching Eli. No matter how much people want to front about owners and politics not affecting football decisions,  they do affect roster decisions and this is one of the more recent examples. The coverage of elis benching here was over the top. Even my mom asked me about it, in sympathy for him, besides the bills games she watches with me she doesnt really follow football.

 

15 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

He’s a dead thread !@#$er??

 

I did not ressurect the thread, you all did that by responding and reacting to my post. All i did was update the thread for historical purposes we might need to entertain us in the future. 

 

16 hours ago, Augie said:

 

So we should put him on a pedestal, where it’s easier to throw rocks at him?   Hmmm   ?

 

He who is without forum sin may step to my pedestal and huck the 1st squirelle.

 

 

17 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Maybe you should have been the other guy.

 

 

Instead, criticize him where it's deserved: his opinion is nonsense of the highest order, and he should be ashamed of himself.  He actually credited a right-wing conspiracy with !@#$ing up the Bills' QB situation. 

 

Necro posting rules uncle tom. All the cool kids are doing it. 

 

Are you really saying his politcal outspoken attitude and entitled doosh vibe didnt lead to his drop on draft day? No matter what side of politics he hung on it was gonna bite him in the ass. Teams want players and locker room leaders not armchair politicians.

 

If Rosen becomes a better QB than JA, then yes, yes it did. Tin foil hat enthusiast gone wild. 

10 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

Friendly reminder: It’s only June 3rd. Depth charts don’t mean **** right now. Our coach wants our rookie QB to earn his way. Arizona’s coach feels differently about his rookie QB....

 

He should earn his way but if hes better than NP off the bat we shouldnt be wasting 2nd team reps on a guy we drafted to be a long term back up or project.