"Giants 'don't like' Josh Rosen".

[BillsFan4]

This article, among many others, make it sound like the Giants are looking at Darnold and the 3 top non-QB prospects in this draft. 

 

If they are set on one one of those 3 non-QB prospects, the Bill strading up to #6, and from there to #2 would make perfect sense. 

 

In that scenario, QBs go off the board 1, 2 & 3. So the Giants are guaranteed to get one of their top 3 prospects (Barkley, Nelson, Chubb). 

 

It aounds like the Colts are willing to move down again. This could be our path to the #2 pick. 

 

 

Something else I've been thinking about - depending on how highly the Giants have these top QBs rated they may not want one going to the Jets. Maybe they really don't want to see Rosen in Jets green, making a trade back from #2 even more enticing... 

Edited April 9, 2018 by BillsFan4

[Mark80]

Neither do I.

[Chuck Wagon]

10 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

The only offer Beane will do will probably be in line with the trade value chart...

 

#2 pick = 2600

#12, #22, #53, #65 picks = 2615

 

If the Giants ask for anything more they will probably not trade up and will go with either Jackson or Rudolf at #12. Beane's not going to get rolled over and leave a rookie QB without a chance to add talented players on rookie deals. Once those parameters are set, then it's up to the Giants to take it or leave it.

 

 

 

 

I could see that deal with the 2019 2nd rounder kicked in.  Considering the 12 + 22 = pick #5 in value, that's pretty close to the Jets trade of moving up 3 spots with 3 2nd round picks.

 

That allows us to have a full draft, while giving the Giants 5 picks in the first 2 rounds the next 2 years.  It would also be tough for other teams to match.

[Buddo]

I don't think the Giants are prepared to move too far back tbh. 5, 6 or 7 might be their limit, and the ball is in Beane's court to get the Bills there. Then the dance is on.

 

It may not be quite as expensive to move up from, say 7, the big question, is how much do you give up to get there in the first place.

 

I think that realistically the highest the Bills can get to before trading with the Gints, would be the #6 from Indy, but even that might be debateable. #7 might be their best shot, and then they must know what the Giants will want from there.

 

Unless the Browns announce their pick early, we aren't going to know if we will move to the #2, until that first pick is in. I'm going to say that if we haven't moved further up before the draft, we aren't going to go to the #2 regardless. I don't see trading multiple picks twice, is something you want to be doing in the limited time available, between the first and second picks.

[MAJBobby]

Please Browns take Darnold.

 

Bills go up and get Rosen.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Neither do I.

 

 

I've jumped off his train. early on, I was liking the possibility but the more I hear about concussions and the fact he just doesn't look all that tough to me. couple good hits and IR he goes.

 

I'd like Mayfield but it wont matter who I or anyone wants/likes. they may already have a plan in place that doesn't include the QB some may want or even a QB (1st round) at all?

[MAJBobby]

14 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

The only offer Beane will do will probably be in line with the trade value chart...

 

#2 pick = 2600

#12, #22, #53, #65 picks = 2615

 

If the Giants ask for anything more they will probably not trade up and will go with either Jackson or Rudolf at #12. Beane's not going to get rolled over and leave a rookie QB without a chance to add talented players on rookie deals. Once those parameters are set, then it's up to the Giants to take it or leave it.

 

 

Wont make it happen.  He is going to have to kick in a premium.  the 50% premium is going to be 3900 points total.  So look for 2019 picks to make up the premium that will have to be paid.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Please Browns take Darnold.

 

Bills go up and get Rosen.

 

I’d say take Allen, but for the life of me I feel bad for their fans. 

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, Buddo said:

I don't think the Giants are prepared to move too far back tbh. 5, 6 or 7 might be their limit, and the ball is in Beane's court to get the Bills there. Then the dance is on.

 

It may not be quite as expensive to move up from, say 7, the big question, is how much do you give up to get there in the first place.

 

I think that realistically the highest the Bills can get to before trading with the Gints, would be the #6 from Indy, but even that might be debateable. #7 might be their best shot, and then they must know what the Giants will want from there.

 

Unless the Browns announce their pick early, we aren't going to know if we will move to the #2, until that first pick is in. I'm going to say that if we haven't moved further up before the draft, we aren't going to go to the #2 regardless. I don't see trading multiple picks twice, is something you want to be doing in the limited time available, between the first and second picks.

 

I'm not convinced the Giants wouldn't be willing to move down to 12 just to avoid losing some of the premium from the pick package.  I'm assuming a move from 12 to 7 wouldn't be a value neutral deal, we would have to kick in some bonus.  But the Giants could have several of Fitzpatrick / Edmonds / Ward / Smith / James ranked to the point they are comfortable operating from 12 while taking an extra 2nd, instead of the 2nd going to turn 12 into 7.  If one of the guys you were going to take at 7 falls into the 9-10 range, you could be looking at a much cheaper price to go get that player.

 

When the Titans traded the pick to the Rams for Goff, they dropped down to 15 weeks before the draft then went back to 8 on draft night.  I'm convinced the hesitation to trade to 2 is as much on us not being willing to pull the trigger until the homework is all done on the QBs as it is on the Giants doing their same homework.  But if both teams reach a conclusion and a price, it could happen well before the draft to allow for follow up moves.

[MJS]

45 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

That's what farm teams have.

 

I guess we're a farm team.

 

ChrisHogan - a free agent we picked up who is a 3rd/4th string WR. Before Buffalo he struggled to make rosters around the NFL.

 

MikeGillislee - a street free agent 2nd stringer we picked up who went to NE and did nothing (but we got a draft pick in the process).

 

Stephen Gilmore - a high draft pick who has always played well for only the 2nd half of the season and who got over paid in free agency, and our secondary was much better with him gone somehow.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I guess we're a farm team.

 

ChrisHogan - a free agent we picked up who is a 3rd/4th string WR. Before Buffalo he struggled to make rosters around the NFL.

 

MikeGillislee - a street free agent 2nd stringer we picked up who went to NE and did nothing (but we got a draft pick in the process).

 

Stephen Gilmore - a high draft pick who has always played well for only the 2nd half of the season and who got over paid in free agency, and our secondary was much better with him gone somehow.

 

Well, there IS all that..... 

 

This is more on the coaches than the player, but Gilmore on the field with the club hand still makes me laugh....and gives me nightmares. 

[Boatdrinks]

If the Bills move to 2 from 12 it will either take a massive premium or a bridge move to 7 first. Some team will covet that # 2 pick for a QB as it gives the most possible certainty of the player to be available ( obviously Browns not moving from 1). Will it be the Bills? The Pats are tough to figure, and they're probably looking to get a LT to protect Brady for the remainder of his career. Is it crazy to think they may move to get his replacement a couple years early and throw Gronkowski in to a deal for pick 2? They've never been afraid to trade their players away with substantial tread left on the tires. The G-men seem to be in a win - now mode with Eli and could make a run with some picks and Gronkowski. I hate the thought of it, but the Pats just can't be counted out. 

[4merper4mer]

Is he out for the season yet?

 

The football version of Tim Connelly.  Let's trade all our picks.

[BillsFan4]

11 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

I've jumped off his train. early on, I was liking the possibility but the more I hear about concussions and the fact he just doesn't look all that tough to me. couple good hits and IR he goes.

 

I'd like Mayfield but it wont matter who I or anyone wants/likes. they may already have a plan in place that doesn't include the QB some may want or even a QB (1st round) at all?

Did you know Mayfield has also had 2 concussions in college? (and at least 1 in high school)

 

And IMO it could be argued that his playing style will put him at risk of suffering more in the future. 

 

Build a good o line around Rosen and you can help limit that risk.

Mayfield will likely always be a guy who plays quite a bit outside the pocket. 

 

 

[DCOrange]

We’ll see what happens, but outside of drafting Rosen in the first or not selecting a QB until Day 2/3, trading up for Rosen is probably my least favorite option. I’m hoping this is a smokescreen and that the Giants actually want him. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

Did you know Mayfield has also had 2 concussions in college? (and at least 1 in high school)

 

And IMO it could be argued that his playing style will put him at risk of suffering more in the future. 

 

Build a good o line around Rosen and you can help limit that risk.

Mayfield will likely always be a guy who plays quite a bit outside the pocket. 

 

 

 

 

thanks for that info. I'd still take him over Rosen and hoping he isn't the pick but who ever they land in this upcoming draft I will support until said player proves, like many in the past have, he isn't worth supporting due to not meeting expectations.

[Buddo]

1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

I'm not convinced the Giants wouldn't be willing to move down to 12 just to avoid losing some of the premium from the pick package.  I'm assuming a move from 12 to 7 wouldn't be a value neutral deal, we would have to kick in some bonus.  But the Giants could have several of Fitzpatrick / Edmonds / Ward / Smith / James ranked to the point they are comfortable operating from 12 while taking an extra 2nd, instead of the 2nd going to turn 12 into 7.  If one of the guys you were going to take at 7 falls into the 9-10 range, you could be looking at a much cheaper price to go get that player.

 

When the Titans traded the pick to the Rams for Goff, they dropped down to 15 weeks before the draft then went back to 8 on draft night.  I'm convinced the hesitation to trade to 2 is as much on us not being willing to pull the trigger until the homework is all done on the QBs as it is on the Giants doing their same homework.  But if both teams reach a conclusion and a price, it could happen well before the draft to allow for follow up moves.

 

I see where you are coming from with this, but I think they value about 3 or 4 non-qbs pretty highly, and as such really don't want to slide too far back. Also, nobody knows who the Browns are picking atm, so the Giants won't move until they know, imho, which pretty much nixes your scenario. I'd also say that it's far easier to let the Bills do the legwork with trades, and you can concentrate on which players you'd want.

[Chuck Wagon]

10 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

We’ll see what happens, but outside of drafting Rosen in the first or not selecting a QB until Day 2/3, trading up for Rosen is probably my least favorite option. I’m hoping this is a smokescreen and that the Giants actually want him. 

 

 

I just don't see much for the Giants to gain by smokescreening they don't like Rosen when they actually do, unless the Browns are legitimately looking into offers for #1.  I guess if the Jets are head over heels for Rosen and the Browns are equally fine with any one of 3 or 4 QBs, there's a chance they could flip 1 and 3.

[NewEraBills]

31 minutes ago, horned dogs said:

Disagree.

 

Which is exactly what they'll do. We need them, they will certainly have other options if they want.

 

If they do then we've already scouted other QB's.  That's how you sell it.  Hey man, I really want to make a deal with you as you have expressed interest in moving, but I've scouted other QBs so I'm not pressed.  This is not about the player's worth so much as how good you are at playing poker and winning.

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

I see where you are coming from with this, but I think they value about 3 or 4 non-qbs pretty highly, and as such really don't want to slide too far back. Also, nobody knows who the Browns are picking atm, so the Giants won't move until they know, imho, which pretty much nixes your scenario. I'd also say that it's far easier to let the Bills do the legwork with trades, and you can concentrate on which players you'd want.

 

Unless we get Denver's pick at 5 or Cleveland's pick at 4, I just don't see where it makes all that much more sense for the Giants to go from 2 to 7.  At 7, they could see all of Barkley / Chubb / Nelson off the board and be forced to take a player not all that different from pick 12.  Why lose a big premium for that?

 

Teams know what other teams can offer.  If the Giants decide to move the pick, I don't know they need to wait till they know what the Browns are doing, they'll have a price and move when it's met.

[1billsfan]

23 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Wont make it happen.  He is going to have to kick in a premium.  the 50% premium is going to be 3900 points total.  So look for 2019 picks to make up the premium that will have to be paid.

 

As I said before, if the Giants are not willing to accept that offer then both teams simply move on. You can't get dizzy drunk on one QB being the end all be all of a franchise. If this were an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, then yes, by all means go crazy. But these QBs aren't on that prospect level. You just need to have the next plan in place and that'd be selecting a QB at a later pick...Jackson, Rudolph, Lauletta, etc... Then building your roster with the extra picks you still have.

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by 1billsfan

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

As I said before, if the Giants are not willing to accept that offer then both teams simply move on. You can't get dizzy drunk on one QB being the end all be all of a franchise. If this were an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, then yes, by all means go crazy. But these QBs aren't on that prospect level. You just need to have the next plan in place and that'd be selecting a QB at a later pick...Jackson, Rudolph, Lauletta, etc... Then building your roster with the extra picks you still have.

 

 

You don't know that a few franchises don't view these QBs like Peyton / Luck. No one is going to show their cards and it only takes one team falling in love.

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

As I said before, if the Giants are not willing to accept that offer then both teams simply move on. You can't get dizzy drunk on one QB being the end all be all of a franchise. If this were an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, then yes, by all means go crazy. But these QBs aren't on that prospect level. You just need to have the next plan in place and that'd be selecting a QB at a later pick...Jackson, Rudolph, Lauletta, etc... Then building your roster with the extra picks you still have.

 

They said the same about Wentz and Goff. 

 

We have settled for over 17 years at the most important position in football.  If OBD wants Rosen or even Mayfield GO GET HIM.  Why Settle on second round prospects when your entire two years has been about this moment.

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

They said the same about Wentz and Goff. 

 

We have settled for over 17 years at the most important position in football.  If OBD wants Rosen or even Mayfield GO GET HIM.  Why Settle on second round prospects when your entire two years has been about this moment.

If the Bills took a guy generally considered by ESPN to be "second tier", let's just say Rudolph for example, and he turned out to be the best guy in the group, would you still be mad we didn't trade up?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Giants will want our 22, 12 and our 1st pick next year just to pick up the phone and talk to the Bills. 

 

That is the deal. 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

If the Bills took a guy generally considered by ESPN to be "second tier", let's just say Rudolph for example, and he turned out to be the best guy in the group, would you still be mad we didn't trade up?

If the Bills took a guy generally considered by ESPN to be "Second Tier', lets just say Rudolph for example and he turned out to be the worst guy in the group, would you still be mad we didn't trade up for a top prospect and settled YET AGAIN?

Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

I wouldn’t say they have no shot. They could add a player to go along with the picks. Gronk maybe? I don’t see it happening, at least not gronkowski anyways, but the Patriots are always up to no good

 

I don't see any team offering up a lot for The Cretin when he's been contemplating retirement the past couple years and is breaking down.

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

If the Bills took a guy generally considered by ESPN to be "second tier", let's just say Rudolph for example, and he turned out to be the best guy in the group, would you still be mad we didn't trade up?

 

 

Clearly not.  But if the Giants trade the #2 pick to Miami, they take Rosen, he's the next Marino and we sit and take a second tier QB who busts, are you going to be mad?

[1billsfan]

24 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

They said the same about Wentz and Goff. 

 

We have settled for over 17 years at the most important position in football.  If OBD wants Rosen or even Mayfield GO GET HIM.  Why Settle on second round prospects when your entire two years has been about this moment.

 

Neither the Rams nor the Eagles were giving up three first round picks as it seems you're asking of the Bills. This is the difference, at some point you must step away from the bar and say I'm good. Good luck trying to rebuild a team to compete with the Eagles the next 10 years.

 

If the Giants like Webb a whole lot, they will take the trade value chart deal in a second.

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by 1billsfan

[NewEraBills]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is the deal. 

And I honestly have settled on it.  I'd do it.  But anything more than this the deal is off.  I'd let the Giants get on the clock Thursday the 26th and see what they really want to do.  We've already scouted other QB's.  Accept this or we'll draft another guy.  Even if we send the picks to someone else.  To me, it's that simple.  

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Neither the Rams nor the Eagles were giving up three first round picks as it seems you're asking of the Bills. This is the difference, at some point you must step away from the bar and say I'm good. Good luck trying to rebuild a team to compete with the Eagles the next 10 years.

 

If the Giants like Webb a whole lot, they will take the deal the trade value chart deal in a second.

 

The Rams and Eagles did give up 50% premium.  on their trade up.

 

If it takes an extra second to get your TOP QB then do it

Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby

[DCOrange]

24 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I just don't see much for the Giants to gain by smokescreening they don't like Rosen when they actually do, unless the Browns are legitimately looking into offers for #1.  I guess if the Jets are head over heels for Rosen and the Browns are equally fine with any one of 3 or 4 QBs, there's a chance they could flip 1 and 3.

I don't either truthfully

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Neither the Rams nor the Eagles were giving up three first round picks as it seems you're asking of the Bills. This is the difference, at some point you must step away from the bar and say I'm good. Good luck trying to rebuild a team to compete with the Eagles the next 10 years.

 

If the Giants like Webb a whole lot, they will take the deal the trade value chart deal in a second.

 

 

 

The Titans got #15 / #43 / #45 / #76 / a next year 1st and a next year 3rd to go from 15 to 1.

 

Some combination of #12 / #22 / 2 or 3 of #53 - # 65 / 2019 pick isn't that far off.

[NewEraBills]

2 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Neither the Rams nor the Eagles were giving up three first round picks as it seems you're asking of the Bills. This is the difference, at some point you must step away from the bar and say I'm good. Good luck trying to rebuild a team to compete with the Eagles the next 10 years.

 

If the Giants like Webb a whole lot, they will take the deal the trade value chart deal in a second.

 

 

I agree, I'm all for getting a QB but we have to have our price.  There are guidelines out there.  Sure, we can go over the guidelines a little, but if they are asking us to bend over they're crazy.  Definitely, take a swing at a QB you want, but everything must be done according to some guidelines or else relationships can go bad.

[Chuck Wagon]

12 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I don't either truthfully

 

 

I just don't think we would have put on the QB press we are putting on if we have been told none of the picks in the top 5 are available.  Sometimes information is a smokescreen to deceive another team, but other times it's floated to prep your fanbase for a move.  The Giants want to play poker with the pick, but they don't want their fans to be completely sold on a QB or Chubb / Barkley then yank the rug out.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, NewEraBills said:

 

I agree, I'm all for getting a QB but we have to have our price.  There are guidelines out there.  Sure, we can go over the guidelines a little, but if they are asking us to bend over they're crazy.  Definitely, take a swing at a QB you want, but everything must be done according to some guidelines or else relationships can go bad.

I also have a walkway price, however it includes a premium, that established overpayment that has occurred with Rams, Eagles and Jets trades.

[NewEraBills]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

The Rams and Eagles did give up 50% premium.  on their trade up.

 

If it takes an extra second to get your TOP QB then do it

 

 

See to me, you don't just let them set the price.  You see what they want and how far it is away from what you set as your initial price.  Then see if you can meet in the middle somewhere.  I look at it like I'm on a car lot.  I never pay full price for the car.  Never.  I tell the guy look, here is the window sticker, here's what I'll pay you.  I think it's a fair deal.  Then he says, well we are 8k difference, then I say I'll tell you what, I'll pitch in another 3k, take it or leave it.  I haven't found a car salesman who'd turn it down yet.  I've owned 5 automobiles.

 

To me this is the same thing.  How well do you negotiate from your price?  How well do they negotiate from their price?

Edited April 9, 2018 by NewEraBills

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

 

See to me, you don't just let them set the price.  You see what they want and how far it is away from what you set as your initial price.  Then see if you can meetin the middle someone.  I look at it like I'm on a car lot.  I never pay full price for the car.  Never.  I tell the guy look, here is the window sticker, here's what I'll pay you.  I think it's a fair deal.  Then he says, well we are 8k difference, then I say I'll tell you way, I'll pitch in another 3k, take it or leave it.  I haven't found a car salesman who'd turn it down yet.  I've owned 5 automobiles.

 

The Market is clearly set.  It has been set from Wentz, Goff trade ups.  there is a QB Premium on the picks, Jets paid it this year as well.  If you want to get up to there to get your QB (or any pick) you will be over the Draft Value chart by some premium.

 

You are the team that set this plan in motion a year ago.  The league knows that.  You passed on Mahommes and Watson to execute this plan, so you will making sure that you get a better prospect than either of those two, and that is the top 4.

Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby

[NewEraBills]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I also have a walkway price, however it includes a premium, that established overpayment that has occurred with Rams, Eagles and Jets trades.

 

The Rams, Eagles did not give away 3 first round picks.  I'm saying I'd give 12, 22, and next year's 2 as an initial offer.  That would be my first starting price knowing that I'm willing to give up next year's first.  But if he wants something more than that, then 12, 22, and next year's 1st then the deal is off.  I don't care what the Jets did.  That's them.

Edited April 9, 2018 by NewEraBills

[The Bills Blog]

1 hour ago, Wily Dog said:

The Giants are not going to make any moves until they see what the Brown's do. They will entertain offers but they will not complete them unless Cleveland announces their pick before the draft. If Cleveland takes Darnold then it will be a free for all with teams attempting to get t0 # 2. I hope Gettleman thinks kindly of his former protege'.

What's with the apostrophe at the end of the last word?