Lamar Jackson at 22?

[billsfan_34]

6 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

They are all projects to more or less of an extent.

I'm not sure that Rudolph won't be better than Jackson or Allen.  I like Mayfield a lot, but I don't think he will be available at 12.  If he is on the board after Denver's pick, I hope that they can swing a deal to move up for him, but I wouldn't give up 12,22, and next year's 1st to move to 6 for him.  If they could get to 6 for 12, 53 and 96, I would do that.

That isnt bad logic at all. My worry is the glaring holes right now- WR, LB, Center (Groy is serviceable tho), RB, and DL. I am holding out hope that the guy Beane covets is there at 12. The other side of the coin may very well be this staff really likes McCarron and we grab a QB in rd 2 maybe Falk etc..... I guess time will tell my friend and really none of us  have any control over this “process”.

[smuvtalker]

6 hours ago, kdiggz said:

if they don't get one of the top 4 QB's then this is a huge failure by the McBeane admiinstration

Have to agree, wholeheartedly.   

 

For all of their excellent acquisitions, shrewd trades, addition by subtraction of attitudes and salary cap stranglers, and savvy wheeling and dealing McBeane has done, not getting one of the top 4, IMHO, would really be a colossal failure.  I am behind them 1000%, and have yet to find major fault with ANY of the moves this FO has made, including starting Peterman @ San Diego.  But there's just no way in tarnation that they haven't made all the freakin moves they have to sit idly by and let Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Allen ALL fall off the board.  I robustly believe that McBeane has his eyes on that #2 spot, and wouldn't be surprised if we are already sitting in that spot prior to draft night.  And if we aren't, I'm confident there's already a package prepared for 2, 3, or 4 depending on the number one pick.  Even sitting put and taking Jackson at 12 would severely dampen my spirit. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by smuvtalker

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, kdiggz said:

if they don't get one of the top 4 QB's then this is a huge failure by the McBeane admiinstration

Who's the "top 4"?

6 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Doubt he’s there at 22

Bet again!!

[cba fan]

1 minute ago, the skycap said:

Who's the "top 4"?

Darnold Rosen Mayfield Allen

[Solomon Grundy]

5 hours ago, jr1 said:

I think he'll be gone by 17 or so

Exactly!! Arizona, Baltimore or SD will snatch him up in a heartbeat. Dont be surprised if he gets selected before 1 of the "big 4"!!

5 hours ago, section122 said:

I think he is one of the top 4.  I certainly want him over allen and even darnold as well.  Its Mayfield and Rosen then everyone else for me but Jackson is my next favorite.

You sir know your football!! I'd take him over all of them personally. 

[smuvtalker]

3 hours ago, CNY315 said:

I'd take him at 12 unless Mayfield was still available 

If Mayfield is still available at 12, before Goodell finishes the last name of the 11th player drafted, I would break both legs sprinting to hand in the card and would glide the rest of the way on pure adrenaline

[Lothar]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I have watched so many games of all these QB's my head hurts. I don't see Beanie or McD picking Jackson so I'm not really worried. He is going to be the player that drops in this draft and will be the guy Kiper talks about after every pick. I would draft Falk, White, Litton, Lauretta and Rudolph over Jackson easily.

That article was before last season. I'd have no problem taking him at 12. He won't last till 22. He may need a year of grooming but his upside may be higher than anyone else's in this draft. 

[GreggTX]

QB's always go before many expect because they are so important. His accuracy is no better than Tyrod's, but in every other aspect he is superior. I still want (in no particular order) Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield. If we can't get one of them, then I'm OK with Jackson at 22. Arm strength, good and quick decisions and 4.3 speed gives us something to work with, at least. He'd be tough to defend.

[Max Fischer]

2 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Same reason Bills didn't go after Drew Brees when he left San Diego or trade up in the draft for Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, etc etc. Everyone knows the stars when they see them so I'm not some swami or fortune teller, but they are scared to pull the trigger for whatever reason. To me it's all about the QB. Josh Rosen is that guy this year. I've been saying it since 2016. They won't. In 5 yrs remember the crazy guy on the Bills forum that told you that and then look at whatever excuse the McBeanes give for not getting him and it will all make sense

 

IMO, this post, and many like it, is littered with false premises. 

 

First - "They" are not around anymore.  Entirely new front office.  The "they" of today at least deserve a chance to prove themselves. 

 

Second - Have to say it, it's easy to "call" moves after a few years.  So, Iet's just say that's an unprovable assertion.

 

Third - "Because they don't want to be wrong" is again unprovable.  No one but the decision makers will really know the reasons behind a choice. 

 

Fourth -  "Do whatever it takes to get him."  Really? Life doesn't work that way because it's not a computer game. What if the Giants want Rosen?  What if no amount of trade bait will make them change their mind. What could you possibly do about it? (Except, perhaps, get into a time machine and make the Bills lose 15 games.  Though the time machine would help correct all the hindsight picks as well - Super Bowl!)

 

"In 5 yrs remember the crazy guy on the Bills forum that told you that and then look at whatever excuse the McBeanes give for not getting him and it will all make sense"  We have no doubt. 

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

IMO, this post, and many like it, is littered with false premises. 

 

First - "They" are not around anymore.  Entirely new front office.  The "they" of today at least deserve a chance to prove themselves. 

 

Second - Have to say it, it's easy to "call" moves after a few years.  So, Iet's just say that's an unprovable assertion.

 

Third - "Because they don't want to be wrong" is again unprovable.  No one but the decision makers will really know the reasons behind a choice. 

 

Fourth -  "Do whatever it takes to get him."  Really? Life doesn't work that way because it's not a computer game. What if the Giants want Rosen?  What if no amount of trade bait will make them change their mind. What could you possibly do about it? (Except, perhaps, get into a time machine and make the Bills lose 15 games.  Though the time machine would help correct all the hindsight picks as well - Super Bowl!)

 

"In 5 yrs remember the crazy guy on the Bills forum that told you that and then look at whatever excuse the McBeanes give for not getting him and it will all make sense"  We have no doubt. 

 

 

I've been here through all of those past drafts and I will still be here 5 yrs from now when Rosen is a pro bowler. 

[Max Fischer]

Just now, kdiggz said:

I've been here through all of those past drafts and I will still be here 5 yrs from now when Rosen is a pro bowler. 

 

Still would like to know how Bills force Giants to trade down to #12 when they have several players that would be great for their team.  No doubt there are countless Giants fans who would go nuts if the Giants made that move but go ahead, dream a little. 

 

 

[sven233]

6 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Dont overreach please!!!!!

 

Say no to Tyrod Taylor 2.0 

 

Another lazy poster with that terrible comparison.  More awful every time those words are spoken.

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

Darnold Rosen Mayfield Allen

I like the first 3 on that list.  Then there is a LARGE gap....  I would actually like Jackson on the Bills more than Allen.  To me, Allen has probably a 80% chance to bust.

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Still would like to know how Bills force Giants to trade down to #12 when they have several players that would be great for their team.  No doubt there are countless Giants fans who would go nuts if the Giants made that move but go ahead, dream a little. 

They just needed to get to 3 but they were asleep at the wheel. Or maybe scared to make the move like I said. Or maybe they don't like Rosen for whatever reason but those reasons have nothing to do with how he throws a football because I can assure you he is the best in the draft. Sometimes you can overthink these things and let the other stuff get to you. Me, I'd take the best football player every time. Maybe they don't like his injury history. If he gets hurt and is out of the league then so be it. It could happen to anyone at any time imo, even those with no injury history at all. He's worth taking a chance on and he was worth trading to 3 for. If they can't get to 2 then so be it.

[Max Fischer]

5 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

They just needed to get to 3 but they were asleep at the wheel. Or maybe scared to make the move like I said. Or maybe they don't like Rosen for whatever reason but those reasons have nothing to do with how he throws a football because I can assure you he is the best in the draft. Sometimes you can overthink these things and let the other stuff get to you. Me, I'd take the best football player every time. Maybe they don't like his injury history. If he gets hurt and is out of the league then so be it. It could happen to anyone at any time imo, even those with no injury history at all. He's worth taking a chance on and he was worth trading to 3 for. If they can't get to 2 then so be it.

 

OMG.  So many what ifs, it's almost as if you can't always control who you want and how they'll turn out.  

Edited March 25, 2018 by Max Fischer

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Rudolph is very much a project QB

I disagree.  He's a guy that, to me, is what he is compared to the other prospects.  I think he's QB who will be steady depending on talent around him.  I don't think he will be a bust or turn into a Hall of  Famer.  I could be wrong in the end, but that's my impression of him.  

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Add in Darnold and Mayfield and yes.    

Darnold has some project with him.  You don't want him playing right away.  

 

Mayfield, I want to like more than I do.  Love his passion for the game, but there's something that holds me back from buying all the way in.

[oldmanfan]

If you tell me I can get Jackson at 22 and a stud MLB or DT at 12 I take that any day of the week

[LeGOATski]

9 hours ago, aristocrat said:

If you think he’s anyth close to Taylor you have never seen him play. 

So true. He's definitely not as accurate as Taylor.

[SoFFacet]

3 hours ago, cba fan said:

Darnold Rosen Mayfield Allen

 

Based on what?

[1billsfan]

20 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

So true. He's definitely not as accurate as Taylor.

 

Taylor thru JR year:

36 Games
20 TD / 15 INT
55 PCT
123 Rating

Jackson thru JR year:

38 Games
69 TD / 27 INT
56 PCT
140 Rating

There's no comparison of the two. One is (and has always been) a simple "play it safe" game manager…and one who is a franchise QB level play maker. Unlike Taylor, Jackson will have an actual long term NFL franchise QB career.

 

[LeGOATski]

21 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Taylor thru JR year:

36 Games
20 TD / 15 INT
55 PCT
123 Rating

Jackson thru JR year:

38 Games
69 TD / 27 INT
56 PCT
140 Rating

There's no comparison of the two. One is (and has always been) a simple "play it safe" game manager…and one who is a franchise QB level play maker. Unlike Taylor, Jackson will have an actual long term NFL franchise QB career.

 

No one's arguing he wasn't a prolific scorer and one of the greatest running QBs of all time.

 

It's convenient to leave out Taylor's senior year, which was his best after becoming the true starter, which was only 2 years.

 

Getting back to my point: both rely heavily on their run game, so they're very comparable. Is it even a bad comparison or are Jackson fans just so insecure that they want to ignore it and chastise anyone who doesn't?

 

Taylor is more accurate and relied less on his running ability to score.

 

Taylor's rushTD/passTD ratio: 52%

Jackson's: 72%

 

Jackson's also very inconsistent with his footwork, same as Taylor, and is a project, same as Taylor.

 

They're really comparable. It doesn't mean Jackson won't be a successful QB, so don't get so butthurt over this.

 

Picking Jackson at 22 is good value, anyway. If they can grab a star LB, for instance, at 12 and then Jackson at 22, that will be a good first round.

21 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by LeGOATski

[Tatonka68]

Another one read and run QB, when will people learn. Weak armed inaccurate overrated QB.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Tatonka68

[Yuleofell]

You need to watch some film, lol. Lamar is anything but a one read weak armed QB. If anything, he stays in the pocket too long and There is a YouTube video of him throwing a 95 yard pass in high school. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Yuleofell

[LeGOATski]

10 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Another one read and run QB, when will people learn. Weak armed inaccurate overrated QB.

Did you see him throw that total duck at the combine? He was trying to hit a 50-60 yard bomb during the deep throw portion of the workout and it went maybe 40 yards.

 

That's just a drill at the combine with no one but him and the WR.

 

The kid needs a lot of work. His potential could definitely be worth the 22nd pick, though.

5 minutes ago, Yuleofell said:

You need to watch some film, lol. Lamar is anything but a one read weak armed QB. If anything, he stays in the pocket too long and There is a YouTube video of him throwing a 95 yard pass in high school. 

The problem isn't his ability, it's his consistency.

 

He can throw a 95 yard bomb and then not be able to throw 50 on the next. This is Bush league stuff we're talking about, anyway.

 

The kid needs a lot of work or a lot of compromise from his OC, which leads to failure.

 

Sure, draft him at 22 and then have him sit for 2 years. I'm sure fans are gonna love that ?

Edited March 25, 2018 by LeGOATski

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

I feel like I’m in Groundhog Day

 

Literally beat me to it!!!  hahahhaha

 

I actually started a thread for this like 6 weeks ago too hahaha.  

 

Lamar will go in round 1, and probably before pick 22.  But if we have not taken a QB and he's on the board at 22, then YES grab him.  Hell, I would take him at 12 too.  

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, BrycePaup4ever said:

Do u think they should trade the late 3rd pick with 22 to move up to 16 or 17 if he is there?

I think it would be a mistake to let someone else grab him around 17. If we only have to give up a 3rd then do it. I'd rather have Lamar over Mason.

[Tatonka68]

4 INTS in his last bowl game. Isn't that the same thing people say about Petermen ?

[1billsfan]

34 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

No one's arguing he wasn't a prolific scorer and one of the greatest running QBs of all time.

 

It's convenient to leave out Taylor's senior year, which was his best after becoming the true starter, which was only 2 years.

 

Getting back to my point: both rely heavily on their run game, so they're very comparable. Is it even a bad comparison or are Jackson fans just so insecure that they want to ignore it and chastise anyone who doesn't?

 

Taylor is more accurate and relied less on his running ability to score.

 

Taylor's rushTD/passTD ratio: 52%

Jackson's: 72%

 

Jackson's also very inconsistent with his footwork, same as Taylor, and is a project, same as Taylor.

 

They're really comparable. It doesn't mean Jackson won't be a successful QB, so don't get so butthurt over this.

 

Picking Jackson at 22 is good value, anyway. If they can grab a star LB, for instance, at 12 and then Jackson at 22, that will be a good first round.

 

I didn’t include his Taylor’s senior season because Jackson’s leaving early. Does it really matter? Don’t you think that Jackson would have had yet another season of stellar passing stats in his senior season? Jackson beat him by 49 TD passes!

 

Taylor got drafted in the 6th round and Jackson’s going to be drafted in the 1st round. You yourself said that you would draft him in the 1st round. Jackson is Pepsi and Taylor is RC Cola. They’re just not comparable.

 

[TPS]

I haven’t seen much of him, but if the Bills can’t get Darnold, then I’d rather they stay put and draft him at 12. Rosen won’t last more than 5 years; Allen is Jay Cutler 2; and mayfield is an !@#$. Let AJ take the reins while Jackson learns, and use the accumulated picks to draft 4-5 other starters. 

Its just my opinion man...

[LeGOATski]

9 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

I didn’t include his Taylor’s senior season because Jackson’s leaving early. Does it really matter? Don’t you think that Jackson would have had yet another season of stellar passing stats in his senior season? Jackson beat him by 49 TD passes!

 

Taylor got drafted in the 6th round and Jackson’s going to be drafted in the 1st round. You yourself said that you would draft him in the 1st round. Jackson is Pepsi and Taylor is RC Cola. They’re just not comparable.

 

Taylor became a starter in the NFL. Easily beating a 1st round pick and all other failed first rounders by association.

 

They're absolutely comparable. Can you even imagine that Jackson just becomes an average NFL starter or not even? Is it possible???

[Solomon Grundy]

48 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Did you see him throw that total duck at the combine? He was trying to hit a 50-60 yard bomb during the deep throw portion of the workout and it went maybe 40 yards.

 

That's just a drill at the combine with no one but him and the WR.

 

The kid needs a lot of work. His potential could definitely be worth the 22nd pick, though.

The problem isn't his ability, it's his consistency.

 

He can throw a 95 yard bomb and then not be able to throw 50 on the next. This is Bush league stuff we're talking about, anyway.

 

The kid needs a lot of work or a lot of compromise from his OC, which leads to failure.

 

Sure, draft him at 22 and then have him sit for 2 years. I'm sure fans are gonna love that ?

I guess you missed Rosen throw a turf ball at the same combine? Did that throw de-value his prospects? How is Josh Allen a "top 4" QB and he is more inconsistent than Jackson?

39 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

4 INTS in his last bowl game. Isn't that the same thing people say about Petermen ?

You're killing me with this!! Didn't Darnold have a 4 turnover (2INT/2fumble) game last year?

19 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Taylor became a starter in the NFL. Easily beating a 1st round pick and all other failed first rounders by association.

 

They're absolutely comparable. Can you even imagine that Jackson just becomes an average NFL starter or not even? Is it possible???

Jackson's floor is Taylor, his ceiling is Warren Moon

[LeGOATski]

Just now, the skycap said:

I guess you missed Rosen throw a turf ball at the same combine? Did that throw de-value his prospects? How is Josh Allen a "top 4" QB and he is more inconsistent than Jackson?

I didn't. Yeah, it probably did to a degree. Missing NFL throws in a practice setting doesn't do you any good when you're auditioning for the NFL.

 

Probably a degree less than Jackson, though, since Rosen has a much better resume in terms of NFL readiness.

 

Allen is definitely inconsistent. He sure auditioned well, though.

 

Why are you asking me to justify the media's grades?

[John from Riverside]

21 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Taylor became a starter in the NFL. Easily beating a 1st round pick and all other failed first rounders by association.

 

They're absolutely comparable. Can you even imagine that Jackson just becomes an average NFL starter or not even? Is it possible???

The only thing that is comparable between the two is they are both great athletes with Lamar Jackson being even more special in that area

 

their college productivity is not comparable the systems they ran in college are not comparable there is a reason why Jackson is considered a high pick and type was a first round picj

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I didn't. Yeah, it probably did to a degree. Missing NFL throws in a practice setting doesn't do you any good when you're auditioning for the NFL.

 

Probably a degree less than Jackson, though, since Rosen has a much better resume in terms of NFL readiness.

 

Allen is definitely inconsistent. He sure auditioned well, though.

 

Why are you asking me to justify the media's grades?

Which is why Rosen will go higher and also cost us a lot more

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

I didn't. Yeah, it probably did to a degree. Missing NFL throws in a practice setting doesn't do you any good when you're auditioning for the NFL.

 

Probably a degree less than Jackson, though, since Rosen has a much better resume in terms of NFL readiness.

 

Allen is definitely inconsistent. He sure auditioned well, though.

 

Why are you asking me to justify the media's grades?

Brian Billick said Kyle Boller auditioned well too. Many on here consider Jackson Tyrod 2.0. We know Tyrod can win games in the league, so who's more NFL ready? I'm not asking you to justify the medias grades, just wondering where you are getting your assessments from. 

[Mat68]

On the filed Jackson has the least amount of red flags of any qb in draft.  During the past 3 months I think Jackson has handled the process the worst.  Not having an agent and not hiring a renouned Qb coach to help correct his short comings has made be question his ability to be a sustained success as a professional.  Vince young had a fantastic rookie year but quickly fizzled out.  His physical gifts will only carry him so far.  He needs to continue to develop inside the pocket.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

On the filed Jackson has the least amount of red flags of any qb in draft.  During the past 3 months I think Jackson has handled the process the worst.  Not having an agent and not hiring a renouned Qb coach to help correct his short comings has made be question his ability to be a sustained success as a professional.  Vince young had a fantastic rookie year but quickly fizzled out.  His physical gifts will only carry him so far.  He needs to continue to develop inside the pocket.

How do we know he's NOT working with a QB coach?? Every coach he's played for speaks HIGHLY of his work ethic. Not having an agent won't hurt him financially and he's letting his play speak for itself!!

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, the skycap said:

How do we know he's NOT working with a QB coach?? Every coach he's played for speaks HIGHLY of his work ethic. Not having an agent won't hurt him financially and he's letting his play speak for itself!!

Maybe he is but i would expect he would perform better at the combine if he was.  That week is about buzz.  By not working any of the physical drills instead of what a freak Jackson is only people talked about switching to wr.  An agent helps him better handle that than his mom.  

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, the skycap said:

I guess you missed Rosen throw a turf ball at the same combine? Did that throw de-value his prospects? How is Josh Allen a "top 4" QB and he is more inconsistent than Jackson?

You're killing me with this!! Didn't Darnold have a 4 turnover (2INT/2fumble) game last year?

Jackson's floor is Taylor, his ceiling is Warren Moon

Raise your hand if you would take warren moon as your qb (raises hand)

[Solomon Grundy]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Raise your hand if you would take warren moon as your qb (raises hand)

They won't fess up John

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Brian Billick said Kyle Boller auditioned well too. Many on here consider Jackson Tyrod 2.0. We know Tyrod can win games in the league, so who's more NFL ready? I'm not asking you to justify the medias grades, just wondering where you are getting your assessments from. 

Tyrod can manage games in the league. You can argue that he's had success because he learned to be so conservative. The same reason why he's frustrating.

 

With Jackson's inaccuracy and technical issues, if he comes out guns blazing in the NFL, he might not even achieve what Taylor has. 

 

He had more success in college, but his NFL readiness is definitely comparable to Taylor. Those same weaknesses are why he's not considered a top 5 pick, despite the legendary college success.

 

You just have to watch the games and listen to film review from knowledgeable people like Eric from Cover1 or Matt Waldman or Voch Lombardi has some good QB reviews.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Tyrod can manage games in the league. You can argue that he's had success because he learned to be so conservative. The same reason why he's frustrating.

 

With Jackson's inaccuracy and technical issues, if he comes out guns blazing in the NFL, he might not even achieve what Taylor has. 

 

He had more success in college, but his NFL readiness is definitely comparable to Taylor. Those same weaknesses are why he's not considered a top 5 pick, despite the legendary college success.

 

You just have to watch the games and listen to film review from knowledgeable people like Eric from Cover1 or Matt Waldman or Voch Lombardi has some good QB reviews.

I've been to everyone of them!! Matt Waldman and Eric dispelled the belief that he's is a run first QB and that he "can't read defenses". This is why I can't believe posters are still stating such fallacies. I posted something from a Chargers site earlier saying how it would be a MISTAKE to pass on Jackson. Here's another article from a Bengals site:

 

https://stripehype.com/2018/03/23/lamar-jackson-provide-competition-quarterback/