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AFC Team offered a 2nd to the Eagles for Foles - Mort update - want more than 1 and 4


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1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

It’s not aweful if they offered a second but refused to go higher. That’s about the right price for a bridge

 

Would rather use the 2 to trade up and get a QB...Foles would have been a good bridge...

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2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I wouldn't advocate giving up a first. I think he goes for less than that. As for playcalling, do we know that the Bills coaches are incapable of building a system around what a guy CAN do well? They have Tyrod Taylor. Doesn't shock me they want to run first and hold their breath when it's time to pass. We know what Foles did in the SB. Can you envision plugging in Tyrod to that game and seeing him do ANY PART of what Foles did? I can't. 

I'd be perfectly happy replacing Taylor with Foles if the cost were right. But not for a 1st +. 

 

As as far as Daboll building a system around what our guys do well, I have very high hopes that is what he will do. It appears that was something Beane and McDermott were specifically looking for in a new OC, and it's something Daboll has said will be a focus. 

 

But looking at Daboll's track record (as well as the way McDermott coached last season) makes me think we will still be a run centered team. It's hard to know for sure though because he's had crap for QBs pretty much wherever he's been. 

 

He does have a pretty varied run scheme - kind of reminds me of Greg Roman in that regard. He has consistently improved the run game of whatever team he's been an OC for, and it seems to be something he's focused on in the past. 

Where as his passing offenses have been near the bottom of the NFL (again likely due mainly to his QBs). 

 

That could all change if he gets a good passing QB though. 

 

 

 

Mainly for me it just boils down to me not thinking Foles is worth the asking price. 

Id much rather use a 1st + more on a rookie QB with a much higher ceiling in th draft. It's a gamble but if it pays off we are set. I want to take a shot on a QB with elite potential. 

Id be happy with Foles as a bridge QB though if we can get him for a mid round pick, but I'm guessing some team that misses out in free agency could panic and pay more for him. I don't really want that to be us. 

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3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Even if they draft Darnold, Rosen and Allen...  they still need a guy who can start next year. 

 

If your rook goes all Russell Wilson in camp then so be it... 

 

Darnold needs a little time, Rosen can start, Allen scares the hell out of me - but man that arm...

 

I would look for someone who can study film and teach the rook - Fitzy would work, as would McCown - neither will cost me a draft choice that I can use to move up

Like Bradford, best offer will not be in March but in August after a training camp injury.

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1 hour ago, KelsaysLunchbox said:

True, and none have had an opportunity. Lets not judge a fish on his ability to climb a tree.

 

Most of those same names all have the opportunity to far exceed Nick Foles. There's a heck of a reward.

 

Nick Foles is the ugly girl in the bar, who you know you can take home and I even heard she makes a decent pancake. We should settle on that right? That "10" that walked in? Haven't heard about her pancake skills...so no need to chase that. Why risk a bad ?

I've heard Daboll does well adapting the offense to his team. I have to think Daboll may like that Jackson has experience in the E-P offense. Ultimately Beane did say he wasn't basing the decision on who fits the offense because Daboll could be gone in a year or two "as a HC himself". 

Very Confucius of you.

Here's another:

Man goes to bed with itchy butt he wake up with smelly fingers.

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22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No doubt!  I would think 1 first and 1 or 2 seconds, or a 1st, a 2nd and a player

 

Although I like Foles, I see trading for Foles as the worst of both worlds. 

 

If we trade our draft for a QB, we can fill out the roster with FA.

If we sign a FA QB, we can fill our roster with draft picks.

 

If we trade our draft for a QB then pay the big bucks to resign him, I'm not sure what we do to fill our roster.  Hope we have a great eye for cuts and UDFA I guess.

 

I don't think anyone will give up that much for him, so either lower the asking price, or take your 2020 comp pick i guess.  

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Right, but that's a cheap year to discover if he is worth the money. With Keenum you pay the money right now. 

 

Typically when the idea of trading Foles is brought up it's included with the statement that the Eagles really like Nate Sudfield. Who knows if that's accurate, but that is a big factor. 

 

Yeah, but you lose assets trading for him.  Keenum costs you nothing from a draft pick stand point, except maybe a comp pick if you qualify.

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Just now, Reed83HOF said:

 

Darnold needs a little time, Rosen can start, Allen scares the hell out of me - but man that arm...

 

I would look for someone who can study film and teach the rook - Fitzy would work, as would McCown - neither will cost me a draft choice that I can use to move up

 

 Fitzy? What’s he teaching anyone?  Microeconomics and how throw interceptions down the left sideline routinely? No thx.

 

foles in an intriguing bridge because:

-he’s won a super bowl

-threw for almost 1000 yds in 3 playoff games 

-he’s on the right side of 30

- he may have trade value once the rook no longer looks like a rook

- can probably stretch him into a second season if needed

-because it would be better than the two referenced above and TT, imo

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3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 Fitzy? What’s he teaching anyone?  Microeconomics and how throw interceptions down the left sideline routinely? No thx.

 

foles in an intriguing bridge because:

-he’s won a super bowl

-threw for almost 1000 yds in 3 playoff games 

-he’s on the right side of 30

- he may have trade value once the rook no longer looks like a rook

- can probably stretch him into a second season if needed

-because it would be better than the two referenced above and TT, imo

:lol: Microeconomics that is great!!

 

Fitzy knew what to do, he just doesn't have the physical gifts to make the play...You need a vet to teach the rook the things the coaches won't. Fitz was a great teammate and leader that the team loved, he knew how to study film and prepare himself for the games. He just physically couldn't perform at a starter's level...

 

I get the intrigue with Foles, I really do and liked him as a FA. I just don't want to pony up what it will cost to get him, especially if it is at the expense of getting our guy....

 

 

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19 minutes ago, dneveu said:

I don't think anyone will give up that much for him, so either lower the asking price, or take your 2020 comp pick i guess. 

 

I don't think the Eagles intend to lower their asking price - I think the point is they are not really asking, they consider him to have high value to their team.

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3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Actually if you look back, we more or less stopped going after QBs after Donahoe was gone. I will give TD that, he did make moves to attempt to address it. Once Marv replaced him we went the cheap route (not talented). EJ was the only shot after 2004 before EJ...

 

Yeah it may be changing, but the rules still favor the QB. PHI & LAR did not have great rosters until they got a QB. PHI got in a good position for the post-season because of Wentz. the Rams only got better because of Goff. QBs elevate talent around them. A full season of Foles would not have had the same rate of success, as Wentz...

 

2001: Tom Brady, Patriots.

2002: Rich Gannon, Raiders.

2003: Tom Brady, Patriots.

2004: Tom Brady, Patriots.

2005: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers.

2006: Peyton Manning, Colts.

2007: Tom Brady, Patriots.

2008: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers.

2009: Peyton Manning, Colts.

2010: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers.

2011: Tom Brady, Patriots.

2012: Joe Flacco, Ravens.

2013: Peyton Manning, Broncos.

2014: Tom Brady, Patriots.

2015: Peyton Manning, Broncos.

2016: Brady 

2017: Brady

 

You are talking about Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, the GOAT and runner up GOAT.

It was a fluke.  Show what the NFC QBs were in the same time frame and you will see reality.

 

The QBs in this draft are NOT going to be Brady or Peyton.

 

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11 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

foles in an intriguing bridge because:

-he’s won a super bowl

-threw for almost 1000 yds in 3 playoff games 

-he’s on the right side of 30

- he may have trade value once the rook no longer looks like a rook

- can probably stretch him into a second season if needed

-because it would be better than the two referenced above and TT, imo

 

I don't think Foles sees himself as a bridge guy, either

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3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

:lol: Microeconomics that is great!!

 

Fitzy knew what to do, he just doesn't have the physical gifts to make the play...You need a vet to teach the rook the things the coaches won't. Fitz was a great teammate and leader that the team loved, he knew how to study film and prepare himself for the games. He just physically couldn't perform at a starter's level...

 

I get the intrigue with Foles, I really do and liked him as a FA. I just don't want to pony up what it will cost to get him, especially if it is at the expense of getting our guy....

 

 

 

Mom with looking at some other FA- I’m not in on the narrative about fitz being a good qb mentor, at least at this time, as I think he still believes he can be an nfl starter and carries that chip on his shoulder. 

 

Also that pickspatrick thing wasn’t just a rag arm thing. He made poor decisions frequently. 

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9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You are talking about Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, the GOAT and runner up GOAT.

It was a fluke.  Show what the NFC QBs were in the same time frame and you will see reality.

 

The QBs in this draft are NOT going to be Brady or Peyton.

 

 

The SB winning QBs from the NFC during this time period are Brad Johnson, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Wilson and Foles. Foles & Johnson are the only 2 non-franchise guys. That's 2 wins out of 17 tries.

 

Beane is on record saying:

 

"It's a quarterback league. I mean, who are we kidding?" Beane said. "If you look at the playoffs teams, the consistent guys that at least qualify for the playoffs or are close every year, most of them have QBs, most of them have a legit quarterback. If you want to use the word franchise, whatever word you want to use, so I understand that. Cam in Carolina was, is, a franchise quarterback. If you're a GM, you have to find a franchise quarterback. It obviously helps keep you on a consistent playing field if you have one, so I get that."

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List of NFC Super Bowl QBs

 

2001
Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams
2002 Brad Johnson Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2003 Jake Delhomme Carolina Panthers
2004 Donovan McNabb Philadelphia Eagles
2005 Matt Hasselbeck Seattle Seahawks
2006 Rex Grossman Chicago Bears
2007 Eli Manning New York Giants
2008 Kurt Warner Arizona Cardinals
2009 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints
2010 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers
2011 Eli Manning New York Giants
2012 Colin Kaepernick San Francisco 49ers
2013 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks
2014 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks
2015 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers
2016 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons
2017 Nick Foles

Philadelphia Eagles

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...the guy was ready to throw in the towel and retire, assuming his career was not going as he had planned......"one last hurrah' and he signs with Eagles....twisted fate when Wentz goes down and the kid earns the Lombardi....just wonder what would happen if a club traded a 1st and 4th and he was subjected to "speed bumps" ala back to back years with bno playoffs....does his interest again wane where he ponders retirement?.....a different twist and we'll never know what he may do in that scenario....regardless a 1st and 4th is too tall a tariff IMO.......

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Its a buyers market when it comes to QB's.  Can't remember there ever being this many free agent QB's available who can play in addition to as many as 5 guys in the draft with 1st round grades.  I highly doubt anybody's giving up a 1st rounder for Foles.  There's always a high demand for QB's but never this much supply.  

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13 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

List of NFC Super Bowl QBs

 

2001
Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams
2002 Brad Johnson Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2003 Jake Delhomme Carolina Panthers
2004 Donovan McNabb Philadelphia Eagles
2005 Matt Hasselbeck Seattle Seahawks
2006 Rex Grossman Chicago Bears
2007 Eli Manning New York Giants
2008 Kurt Warner Arizona Cardinals
2009 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints
2010 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers
2011 Eli Manning New York Giants
2012 Colin Kaepernick San Francisco 49ers
2013 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks
2014 Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawks
2015 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers
2016 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons
2017 Nick Foles

Philadelphia Eagles

 

Look at the NFC Superbowl Winners: Warner, Johnson, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Foles...Only Johnson & Foles 2 out of 17 = not good enough

Look at the AFC Superbowl Winners: Brady, Flacco, Peyton, Big Ben

 

HOF'ers Peyton = Eli, Warner, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Peyton = 14 rings

Possible HOF'ers = Wilson = 1 ring

Not HOF'ers= Flacco, Johnson & Foles= 2 rings

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Look at the NFC Superbowl Winners: Warner, Johnson, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Foles...Only Johnson & Foles 2 out of 17 = not good enough

Look at the AFC Superbowl Winners: Brady, Flacco, Peyton, Big Ben

 

HOF'ers Peyton = Eli, Warner, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Peyton = 14 rings

Possible HOF'ers = Wilson = 1 ring

Not HOF'ers= Flacco, Johnson & Foles= 2 rings

 

 

 

I am not saying we should not go for a "franchise" QB, whatever parameters used in that term.

You shown the AFC starting QBs, my point was about Brady/Manning.

The NFC shows that over that time frame the best QBs only have 2 SB appearances.

That is reality.

 

I've seen a lot of posts about Rosen or Mayfield being the Bills QB for 15+ years and 6 SB appearances.

All the Bills have to do is trade up and get him.

If that was guaranteed I wouldn't mind giving up 4 1st round picks!

 

I have hoped draft after draft for 15 years that the Bills would take a high round talented guy.

If Beane pulls the trigger on the biggest trade of all time, I sure hope he hits because IF he doesn't well.....

The 2018 Draft will be exciting.

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5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I am not saying we should not go for a "franchise" QB, whatever parameters used in that term.

You shown the AFC starting QBs, my point was about Brady/Manning.

The NFC shows that over that time frame the best QBs only have 2 SB appearances.

That is reality.

 

I've seen a lot of posts about Rosen or Mayfield being the Bills QB for 15+ years and 6 SB appearances.

All the Bills have to do is trade up and get him.

If that was guaranteed I wouldn't mind giving up 4 1st round picks!

 

I have hoped draft after draft for 15 years that the Bills would take a high round talented guy.

If Beane pulls the trigger on the biggest trade of all time, I sure hope he hits because IF he doesn't well.....

The 2018 Draft will be exciting.

We are good and on the same page!

 

I get your point with Brady/Manning - they are/were awesome. Go back to the AFC Championship games and aside from Big Ben, you get the "lesser" QBs. Honestly, I hesitate to even go back past like 2013 with a list like this, the game has just changed so much to favor the passing game. Even if Beane pulls the trigger and misses, it really won't change much than where we have been over the past 17 years; an average at best team.

 

Yeah we will lose a couple second round shots on our next James Hardy's & Terrell Troupe's, we will also miss out on our Donte Whitner's, CJ Spiller's, Leodis McKelvin's & Stephon Gilmore's, but all they did was help us be a middling team that never bottomed out to get a guy without giving up a ton...

 

On a serious note Rosen's, Darnold's and even Mayfield's are not sure things, otherwise no one would pass on them and the draft is a crap shoot; all you can do is find your best odd's and give it a spin. 

 

I can't wait to see how FA unfolds when it starts next week, the draft picture will be much clearer...It's a huge draft for us

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Wow, a city without a real QB in 18 years not willing to pay a 2nd rounder for this years Superbowl MVP??

 

Who would have thunk ....:wacko:

 

 

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1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

More than a 1st and a 4th?!?!  :lol:

 

What a joke.

 

Can we stop talking about even entertaining this idea of trading for Nick Foles now?

Hey, I want 5 mil for my $150,000 house??  Still waiting...and waiting....and waiting

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5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

We are good and on the same page!

 

I get your point with Brady/Manning - they are/were awesome. Go back to the AFC Championship games and aside from Big Ben, you get the "lesser" QBs. Honestly, I hesitate to even go back past like 2013 with a list like this, the game has just changed so much to favor the passing game. Even if Beane pulls the trigger and misses, it really won't change much than where we have been over the past 17 years; an average at best team.

 

Yeah we will lose a couple second round shots on our next James Hardy's & Terrell Troupe's, we will also miss out on our Donte Whitner's, CJ Spiller's, Leodis McKelvin's & Stephon Gilmore's, but all they did was help us be a middling team that never bottomed out to get a guy without giving up a ton...

 

On a serious note Rosen's, Darnold's and even Mayfield's are not sure things, otherwise no one would pass on them and the draft is a crap shoot; all you can do is find your best odd's and give it a spin. 

 

I can't wait to see how FA unfolds when it starts next week, the draft picture will be much clearer...It's a huge draft for us

 

Yep, we are Bill's fans.  We have suffered.

As to the passing game, I will say that the College game has changed so much it clouds what guys can cut it in the NFL.

The NFL is adapting and I can see a guy like Dabol helping with that.

I had posted too many times on all these "emotional" QB threads that everything is speculation until the QB FA fleshes out.

We all will see soon!

7 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Wow, a city without a real QB in 18 years not willing to pay a 2nd rounder for this years Superbowl MVP??

 

Who would have thunk ....:wacko:

 

 

 

In the summer of 2016 I wanted Whaley to dump EJ (by then a blind man could see he wasn't our future) and sign Foles.

Instead Foles went to KC for less than 2 million!

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13 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Wow, a city without a real QB in 18 years not willing to pay a 2nd rounder for this years Superbowl MVP??

 

Who would have thunk ....:wacko:

 

Try reading that again. 

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3 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

The rumored offer is a #2, some are having a problem with this

Sorry, shouldn't have quoted you...me bad

 

So by "city" you meant the people and not the team?  If so, my bad.

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I like the idea of getting Foles of course. But I would be scared to trade with the Eagles because they seem smarter than everyone else.

 

They traded Foles and a 2nd for Bradford. 

 

Then they traded Bradford for a 1st and a 4th.

 

Then they get Foles back for nothing.

 

Now they are trading Foles AGAIN for a first??

 

Everyone else else are idiots compared to these people. 

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I'm not sure the Eagles can get too greedy when it comes to Foles. He just kind of re-discovered his love of the game, so I'm not sure he will be okay with getting traded anywhere. I could see Minnesota or Arizona. I think DeFellipo is going to want to bring back Bradford or bring in Cousins. I think Arizona makes a ton of sense because Foles has a cheap contract, they have very little in the way of cap, he's a good fit with Mike McCoy, and he played at Arizona U. The Cards also really need to consider signing a vet to go with Larry Fitzgerald for the last few years of his career.  I think the Bills could make some sense from a culture standpoint and familiarity with the coaching staff. I could also see Denver if they can't get Cousins, though I am not sure if Foles would like being in a spot where John Elway is breathing down his throat. (I think Elways wants Josh Allen anyway)

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2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I'm not sure the Eagles can get too greedy when it comes to Foles. He just kind of re-discovered his love of the game, so I'm not sure he will be okay with getting traded anywhere. I could see Minnesota or Arizona. I think DeFellipo is going to want to bring back Bradford or bring in Cousins. I think Arizona makes a ton of sense because Foles has a cheap contract, they have very little in the way of cap, he's a good fit with Mike McCoy, and he played at Arizona U. The Cards also really need to consider signing a vet to go with Larry Fitzgerald for the last few years of his career.  I think the Bills could make some sense from a culture standpoint and familiarity with the coaching staff. I could also see Denver if they can't get Cousins, though I am not sure if Foles would like being in a spot where John Elway is breathing down his throat. (I think Elways wants Josh Allen anyway)

Me too and he signs Keenum to Bridge. Hadn't thought about Foles to Az, but it makes too much sense. Bills are not an outlandish thought either.  

 

My picks:

Cousins-Minn

Keenum-Den

McCarron-Cle

 

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My question - is this posturing by the Eagles?  I just wonder if this isn't going to the court of public opinion...

 

My hot take on Foles.  He had a good SB, don't get me wrong.  But a big part of why he was the MVP is that he was expected to be a dud and wasn't.  Many of the media bobble heads had Philly out of the running when Wentz went down - and continued to every week.

 

I think Foles could be an upgrade for us - but he is not a long term solution and I don't think worthy of more than a #2.  That is a lot of draft capital for a band aid (with 1 year on his deal).

 

I'd rather keep TT as QB for 1 season and use those picks on a longer term solution.

 

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10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Hmmm? This sounds familiar.

 

Yup. I don't think a team ponying up whatever the price to get Foles will be ( less than a first and a fourth imo) has him in mind as a one year bridge QB. That includes the Bills. If they traded for Foles , I could see them drafting a QB at 21. A QB taken there could use a couple seasons backing up. Plenty of time for that to sort itself out. I could see the Bills doing this if they think the cost to move up for a guy they covet is too high or just impossible to surpass what other teams can offer. 

23 minutes ago, MTBill said:

My question - is this posturing by the Eagles?  I just wonder if this isn't going to the court of public opinion...

 

My hot take on Foles.  He had a good SB, don't get me wrong.  But a big part of why he was the MVP is that he was expected to be a dud and wasn't.  Many of the media bobble heads had Philly out of the running when Wentz went down - and continued to every week.

 

I think Foles could be an upgrade for us - but he is not a long term solution and I don't think worthy of more than a #2.  That is a lot of draft capital for a band aid (with 1 year on his deal).

 

I'd rather keep TT as QB for 1 season and use those picks on a longer term solution.

 

I'd rather not have Tyrod play any more games for the Bills. His ceiling has been reached, and its time to move on. 

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8 hours ago, Wo-Bah said:

If it was Buffalo, I guess I would be OK with it.  This allows us to spend our 2 first round picks on other areas.

I would trade TT and a second for Foles and still draft a QB in the first or second round this year. 

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