YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22555783/buffalo-bills-owner-kim-pegula-seeks-compromise-players-social-protests "My own experience, I think a lot of it is just communication," she said. "I know that's easy to say. But I know that several of our players, when I actually talked to them and actually gave them a different perspective -- just like they were trying to give us a different perspective -- on the impact of the business and what the impact is of what they do socially, off the game, at home and then how that affects the business side. They didn't grow up in the sports business world. They came in on the players' side. "So a lot of [Bills players] just didn't understand or know the impact that it had on the business, the organization and the community - good or bad. So I do think there's definitely an impact. I wouldn't shy away from it at all. I think there is a common ground. I think a lot of it is more about communicating and learning from each other on both sides and coming to some type of a compromise at some point. Sometimes you won't be able to come to a compromise. But something usually gets done when that happens." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" 5 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 She is such a lovely person 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 I like her perspective. Players hate owners who act like they control the players and ignore communication and compromise (ie Bob McNair) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" Wow.... Is that a fact? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" I think they do 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" project much? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) I think she makes a solid, rational point. And its the way to approach this or any issue. However, with that said, you should not put your work uniform on, go to the office and then publicly protest or state opinions contrary to the organziation you work for. That's just the way it is. The players, any of us, have the right to say and protest all we want on our own time. But they're using the stage the NFL and the Bills organization (in this case) provided them to state a personal opinion. That's the problem I have with it..and its the point I think the players need to understand. Edited February 23, 2018 by Dan 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 I wonder how she feels about Mr. Rosen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBill Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think convincing the players that as a "team" - including as owners - if you all have a common interest with respect to social issues, that will smooth these things out. The important thing is - if you get the players to not hurt the brand by doing things viewed by some as detrimental, you have to still represent the issues on some level. Whether that is giving money and time to causes or whatever. As a player - if you are hurting the "brand" - you are hurting yourself because that diminishes your paycheck. When you can still support a cause and not hurt the brand - it's a win/win. Not everyone in the country agrees with every cause - and certainly some causes of players may not be able to be supported by the team (e.g. if they wanted to support illegal activities). Equal protection and eliminating prejudice is an admirable goal. Kneeling during the anthem is not really supporting that. It attracted the wrong type of attention. Making your voice loud and clear as a TEAM by working with your community and beyond will accomplish much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Ummm...okay? Am I the only one who thinks this didn’t make sense. (Granted I’m in bed with a fever and the flu) Nobody had ever explained the other side of the coin to black players? She then explain it was hurting business, which totally hasn’t been reported? And they were then like, “sorry boss, thanks for explaining. We will stop now” This whole thing comes across as tone def and condescending. Edited February 24, 2018 by Mango 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dan said: I think she makes a solid, rational point. And its the way to approach this or any issue. However, with that said, you should not put your work uniform on, go to the office and then publicly protest or state opinions contrary to the organziation you work for. That's just the way it is. The players, any of us, have the right to say and protst all we want on our own time. But they're using the stage the NFL and the Bills organization (in this case) provided them to state a personal opinion. That's the problem I have with it. no, you have a problem with what they are protesting. the NFL stage is used for many things...fighting breast cancer, wounded veterans...hell, even toys for tots, but the minute it's used to address the oppression of others, then you have a problem with it...? haha there's that cognitive dissonance again. Edited February 23, 2018 by 87168 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Spiderweb said: Wow.... Is that a fact? It’s a fact that some people would rather denigrate someone’s opinion instead of actually listening to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mango said: Ummm...okay? Am I the only one who thinks this didn’t make sense. (Granted I’m in bed with a fever and the flu) Nobody had ever explained the other side of the coin to black players? She then explain it was hurting business, which totally hasn’t been reported? And they were then like, “sorry boss, thanks for explaining. We will stop now” This whole thing comes across as tone def and condescending. of course is it. in all honesty, she's an Asian American, married to a white billionaire. she couldn't be further disconnected from the issue, yet she feels entitled to weigh in on how it "hurts" business, while people are losing their lives. please. Edited February 23, 2018 by 87168 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBill Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think the important part of the owner reaching out was not the "explain the impact it has on business" - but was that the owners support the issue - just not how it was being raised. What ESPN reports - and what Kim P says to ESPN are probably somewhat out of context. Players maybe didn't all understand that some fans were really turned off because of the kneeling. Granted - some of these same fans are probably also blind to the cause itself, but the kneeling was obvious and became a distraction from the issue itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" I think it is YOU who does not understanding what the protesters are protesting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 87168 said: of course is it. in all honesty, she's an Asian American, married to a white billionaire. she couldn't be further disconnected from the issue, yet she feels entitled to weigh in on how it "hurts" business, while people are losing their lives. please. “Entitled to weigh in?” She was asked a question ... and answered it. Should she plead the 5th at a public event because of her race and economic status? She was speaking on a panel at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston, and was asked whether social activism by players is good for the business of sports. Edited February 23, 2018 by YoloinOhio 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 87168 said: no, you have a problem with what they are protesting. the NFL stage is used for many things...fighting breast cancer, wounded veterans...hell, even toys for tots, but the minute it's used to address the oppression, then you have a problem with it...? haha there's that cognitive dissonance again. Yes but when they fight for those things they are doing it outside the game. They are visiting patience outside the game, donating toys for children outside of the game and so on... They don't do it while they are at work. What I don't like is that me and you go to our jobs and if we try to make a political statement at work then we would be fired. And many work places to a Toys fo tots... That kind of stuff is good. But making a political statement at work is not the appriate time. Makes the players look selfish because the Owners are the ones that are impacted the most I don't agree with their views on oppression but that is their view points so they have right to protest but on their own time when they aren't working at a game. Fans watch sports to get away from politics... I know I hate the political talk about football. I just wanna watch football Edited February 23, 2018 by Kmart128 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 20 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" Says a guy who probably voted for a reality TV host. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dan said: I think she makes a solid, rational point. And its the way to approach this or any issue. However, with that said, you should not put your work uniform on, go to the office and then publicly protest or state opinions contrary to the organziation you work for. That's just the way it is. The players, any of us, have the right to say and protest all we want on our own time. But they're using the stage the NFL and the Bills organization (in this case) provided them to state a personal opinion. That's the problem I have with it..and its the point I think the players need to understand. How do you know their opinions are contrary to the organization? Many owners agree with the players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" Oh for Christ's sakes. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, metzelaars_lives said: Oh for Christ's sakes. Metz.... lives?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Kmart128 said: Yes but when they fight for those things they are doing it outside the game. They are visiting patience outside the game, donating toys for children outside of the game and so on... They don't do it while they are at work. What I don't like is that me and you go to our jobs and if we try to make a political statement at work then we would be fired. And many work places to a Toys fo tots... That kind of stuff is good. But making a political statement at work is not the appriate time. Makes the players look selfish because the Owners are the ones that are impacted the most Drivers being murdered for "driving while black" and it is the BILLIONAIRS that are impacted the most? TRUTH is "It is NEVER a good time for BLACK PEOPLE to say they are unhappy with the status quo", isn't that right? Edited February 23, 2018 by cd1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kmart128 said: Yes but when they fight for those things they are doing it outside the game. They are visiting patience outside the game, donating toys for children outside of the game and so on... They don't do it while they are at work. What I don't like is that me and you go to our jobs and if we try to make a political statement at work then we would be fired. And many work places to a Toys fo tots... That kind of stuff is good. But making a political statement at work is not the appriate time. Makes the players look selfish because the Owners are the ones that are impacted the most Uhh..I make political statements all of the time at work. I'm in no danger of being fired. The company in the offices next to us actively campaigns for things like toys for tots in their offices. People wear political statement t-shirts all through the building which has several different companies. The causes mentioned like fighting breast cancer are actively supported DURING games. Pink sneakers, lapels, ribbons on the uniform, etc. You have ceremonies at games for supporting the troops. So I'm not sure what you're accurate about it "being outside the game". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, cd1 said: Drivers being murdered for "driving while black" and it is the BILLIONAIRS that are impacted the most? TRUTH is "It is NEVER a good time for BLACK PEOPLE to say they are unhappy with the status quo", isn't that right? They need to shut up and play!!! now excuse me, but im going to post my opinion all over social media. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, 87168 said: no, you have a problem with what they are protesting. the NFL stage is used for many things...fighting breast cancer, wounded veterans...hell, even toys for tots, but the minute it's used to address the oppression, then you have a problem with it...? haha there's that cognitive dissonance again. I think you have no idea what my problems are. Yes, the NFL stage is used to suuport lotst of causes and things. But, that's the NFL deciding what they want to do. Not the players. The players are the employees, the NFL (and owners) are the boss. As an employee, you follow the company policies and procedures or you get fired. Personally, I think the players can protest whatever they want... On their own time. But that is the key, do it on thier time not the team's. I don't think they should be protesting police brutality and oppression any more than they should be holding up a sign to buy girl scout cookies during the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Things like this make me proud to have Kim Pegula as an owner. Unfortunately too many football owners (and fans) treat the players like they're subhuman. See below: 29 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: They need to shut up and play!!! now excuse me, but im going to post my opinion all over social media. The only ones NOT playing are the [ONE] they won't let play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dan said: I think you have no idea what my problems are. Yes, the NFL stage is used to suuport lotst of causes and things. But, that's the NFL deciding what they want to do. Not the players. The players are the employees, the NFL (and owners) are the boss. As an employee, you follow the company policies and procedures or you get fired. Personally, I think the players can protest whatever they want... On their own time. But that is the key, do it on thier time not the team's. I don't think they should be protesting police brutality and oppression any more than they should be holding up a sign to buy girl scout cookies during the game. Kneeling during the anthem did absolutely nothing to affect the game except for sensitive fans losing their minds because they can't put themselves in another person's shoes to even try to understand their point. The games were not delayed. They were not affected. Instead, you saw reactionary fans intentionally misconstruing everything to somehow be about disrespecting the troops or other such nonsense, no matter how many times both the players (and veterans) said that was not the case. And I couldn't disagree more that it should only be up to the NFL owners what their platform is used for. I don't watch for the NFL as an entity, I watch for the players and the teams. Edited February 23, 2018 by LA Grant 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Remember - this wasn't necessarily an "issue" until Cheeto Jesus chimed in, claiming the protests unpatriotic and effrontery to our troops (this coming from the 5-time draft deferment recipient- President Bone Spurs). Can't we just let this go and focus on football....please? 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Kmart128 said: Yes but when they fight for those things they are doing it outside the game. They are visiting patience outside the game, donating toys for children outside of the game and so on... They don't do it while they are at work. What I don't like is that me and you go to our jobs and if we try to make a political statement at work then we would be fired. And many work places to a Toys fo tots... That kind of stuff is good. But making a political statement at work is not the appriate time. Makes the players look selfish because the Owners are the ones that are impacted the most I don't agree with their views on oppression but that is their view points so they have right to protest but on their own time when they aren't working at a game. Fans watch sports to get away from politics... I know I hate the political talk about football. I just wanna watch football 5 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: Uhh..I make political statements all of the time at work. I'm in no danger of being fired. The company in the offices next to us actively campaigns for things like toys for tots in their offices. People wear political statement t-shirts all through the building which has several different companies. The causes mentioned like fighting breast cancer are actively supported DURING games. Pink sneakers, lapels, ribbons on the uniform, etc. You have ceremonies at games for supporting the troops. So I'm not sure what you're accurate about it "being outside the game". I, too, am allowed to wear any sort of political T-shirt, or whatever, while at work (as long as it is not obscene, or otherwise inappropriate), but I'm not sure that qualifies as an "action," per se. It certainly wouldn't affect my job in any way. Be that as it may, I have also never been asked to stand for the National Anthem while at work, and I'm not sure that I would capitulate if I were. Also, wouldn't standing for the National Anthem be every bit as much a political statement as kneeling for it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 If you look at how the NBA is run, it is a good model. The players are extremely vocal (see Lebron as the most recent example). I do think that because that is a superstar league they appear to represent themselves more than the organization as a whole. But still, Adam Silver is an excellent commissioner and the political statements don’t hurt business at all. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, nucci said: How do you know their opinions are contrary to the organization? Many owners agree with the players I don't. But given the way most of the owners and the league are responding, they at the least seem to not want the players protesting like this. And ultimately that's all that matters. If they supported it and wanted the players to protest it, then this wouldn't be an issue, Take another example, the breast cancer awareness. All the players wear pink in October. Now maybe they like that, maybe they don't. But, I would guess the league strongly suggests that you'll be wearing your pink flare if you want to be a team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, YoloinOhio said: If you look at how the NBA is run, it is a good model. The players are extremely vocal (see Lebron as the most recent example). I do think that because that is a superstar league they appear to represent themselves more than the organization as a whole. But still, Adam Silver is an excellent commissioner and the political statements don’t hurt business at all. The NBA is so far above every other league. Goodell is moron and isn't proactive at all. it's embarrassing how a league that prints money like the NFL is run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the fans don't even know what the are "protesting" Fixed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Whooooooooole lotta virtue signaling in this thread. Excuse me, I gotta go exorcise my white guilt. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suorangefan4 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 41 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Most the players don't even know what the are "protesting" So true. We've done this same thread a million times and each time I've replied by showing statistics that cops kill white people twice as much as they do blacks. Or that black people are 27 times more likely to attack a white people than the other way around. Or that stuff like #Killallwhitemen was an actual top trend on twitter a couple years ago. Liberals don't seem to care at all about any of that though. They're blinded by hate (which is ironic because they say that about Trump supporters). They just attack like a pack of rabid dogs when you don't see things in the same delusional way they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, LA Grant said: Kneeling during the anthem did absolutely nothing to affect the game except for sensitive fans losing their minds because they can't put themselves in another person's shoes to even try to understand their point. The games were not delayed. They were not affected. Instead, you saw reactionary fans intentionally misconstruing everything to somehow be about disrespecting the troops or other such nonsense, no matter how many times both the players (and veterans) said that was not the case. And I couldn't disagree more that it should only be up to the NFL owners what their platform is used for. I don't watch for the NFL as an entity, I watch for the players and the teams. I completely agree with you, on all points. But my point remains... If your boss said you have to behave a certain way at work, you have to do that. I can't use my company car for personal trips to the sex store? If I'm caught wearing my work shirt in a bar, I'm fired. Some other owner may not care, but mine does. I think too many people on this discussion are wrapped up in what the players are protesting. I'm saying it doesn't matter what they're protesting... They are employees and when they are wearing the company uniform, they should be expected to represent the company. Right now, in February, on their own time... Protest away! Call a news conference a day. Do what you want. But, don't do it at the office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Fixed If you are going to fix something at least get the grammar right. Otherwise you look ghetto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 This smells like a Political thread. (Politics, Polls, Pundits) That's where I'd move it to, if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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