Ralph Wilson's Role In The Buffalo Bills Playoff Drought

[BuffaloRush]

In the light of the new WNED documentary Ralph premiering soon, it got me thinking quite a bit about Ralph C. Wilson.

 

Not sure how other fans feel about him, but personally I am torn.  On one hand the Bills fans have to love Ralph’s dedication to keeping the franchise in Buffalo.  If he was greedy, he had multiple chances to relocate or could have sold the franchise  years earlier.  Instead, he appeared to be dedicated to keeping the team in Buffalo.  I always got the impression that his wife, Russ Brandon, and Littman would never sell the team to someone with intentions of relocating.  If it wasn’t for RCW, we wouldn’t have a team in Western, NY.  For that we should all be grateful to him.  

 

On the other hand however, I think Ralph is the biggest reason for the Buffalo Bills near 20 year drought.  Folks, from a football perspective Ralph made some TERRIBLE TERRIBLE decisions that crippled the franchise.  At least in the 30 years that I’ve been following the team.  IMO he made many poor decisions each of which are rooted in the losing culture of this franchise.  

 

There’s many examples of where Ralph’s rash decisions, greatly hurt the football organization:

 

• Firing Bill Polian
• Demanding Rob Johnson start over Doug Flutie
• Firing Wade Phillips for not firing Ronnie Jones
• Firing John Butler (though I think Butler was hell-bent on leaving)

 

These moves were all killers and in most cases, they could have been avoided.  But I think that Ralph’s worst work came after he hired Tom Donahoe as GM and president.  The hiring itself wasn’t a bad choice.  On paper, we had reason to be excited with Donahoe as GM.  But it turned out to be a disaster and it would mark the last time that Ralph would look outside the organization for anyone in a position of power.  He also was notoriously cheap.  Not on players - we all know what kind of deals he gave out to players in Free Agency.  But he appeared to be reluctant in paying for GM's, coaches, scouting departments etc.  

Ralph’s biggest mistake was empowering the wrong individuals to make football decisions within the franchise.

 

- Hiring Marv Levy as GM - Marv was a great coach but way too old to be an effective GM.  As a result Marv, Dick Jauron, and Tom Modrak ran all drafts and personnel decisions.  The results were disastrous

 

-  Empowering Russ Brandon as acting GM and not hiring a real GM - again a terrible decision that hurt the franchise for years to come

 

-  Naming Buddy Nix as GM - again Ralph was to scared to hire someone outside the organization, so he turned to Buddy who previously worked for the Bills.  His tenure as GM was largely unsuccessful and terrible.

 

- Promoting Doug Whaley as GM.  Yet another mistake

 

So while I am looking forward to the Ralph documentary, I’m hoping it’s a balanced look at his life.   Like I said, I'm grateful for his dedication to keeping the team in Buffalo, but I think his poor decisions in the past have ramifications that we still feel today.  Just my 2 cents

[dulles]

Polian...he's the first domino to fall.  Once he was gone, all the others would eventually tumble.

[Happy]

Good post and topic.  I'm thankful to Ralph C Wilson for founding the Buffalo Bills, ensuring they stayed in Buffalo after his death, and being one of the original owners who helped form today's NFL.  The Buffalo Bills are a part of who I am, and am grateful to Ralph.

 

I think Ralph loved the Bills, western NY, and was well intentioned.  I have no doubt he wanted a winner.  My opinion of where he went wrong was inserting himself in the football operations which ultimately lead to the firing of Bill Polian.  Granted, Polian had a strong personality from what I understand, but had they got along better, who knows how history would have changed.  It's possible that Ralph had a hard time adjusting to a model where the owner stayed hands off in the background and let a President/GM run the show.  When he realized this, Ralph eventually ended up making a bad hire in Tom Donahoe and things didn't start improving until years later.

 

It will be interesting to read everyones posts on this topic.    

[Gugny]

Other than keeping the Bills in western NY, which was an absolute positive for local residents, Ralph Wilson was an absolutely horrible owner.

 

I say this, depending on how one defines a good owner.

 

If a good owner is one who makes money, then he was fantastic.

 

If a good owner is one who makes money whilst putting a quality product on the field and is dedicated to winning, then he sucked.

 

He sucked.

[BadLandsMeanie]

I think giving 6 or 8 hundred million dollars to the Buffalo area makes up for a lot of lost football games.

 

And not selling out the city to get an enormous amount of extra money like The Chargers, Browns, Raiders, Rams, and I forget who all else did. makes up for a lot of lost football games.

 

And working the lease so it bound the team to us even after he was dead, makes up for a lot of lost football games.

 

Plus you can't reasonably blame Ralph Wilson for the games we have lost after he was dead. 

 

Those are my thoughts.

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Other than keeping the Bills in western NY, which was an absolute positive for local residents, Ralph Wilson was an absolutely horrible owner.

 

I say this, depending on how one defines a good owner.

 

If a good owner is one who makes money, then he was fantastic.

 

If a good owner is one who makes money whilst putting a quality product on the field and is dedicated to winning, then he sucked.

 

He sucked.

This is one of those post I have at long last, learned not to make!

 

Even though I wanna.

 

So, no comment.

[Augie]

Obviously there were mistakes. The enormous generosity proves it wasn’t because he was simply “cheap”. Beyond that, I prefer to look forward. 

[BuffaloRush]

10 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Good post and topic.  I'm thankful to Ralph C Wilson for founding the Buffalo Bills, ensuring they stayed in Buffalo after his death, and being one of the original owners who helped form today's NFL.  The Buffalo Bills are a part of who I am, and am grateful to Ralph.

 

I think Ralph loved the Bills, western NY, and was well intentioned.  I have no doubt he wanted a winner.  My opinion of where he went wrong was inserting himself in the football operations which ultimately lead to the firing of Bill Polian.  Granted, Polian had a strong personality from what I understand, but had they got along better, who knows how history would have changed.  It's possible that Ralph had a hard time adjusting to a model where the owner stayed hands off in the background and let a President/GM run the show.  When he realized this, Ralph eventually ended up making a bad hire in Tom Donahoe and things didn't start improving until years later.

 

It will be interesting to read everyones posts on this topic.    

I hear you - I think the loss of Polian was huge, but the staff that he assembled stayed in place after he left.  The very talented roster he put together and football operation guys like John Butler and AJ Smith helped keep the team strong for years.  

 

I do have to defend Ralph on the Donahoe hire.  At the time, it was being hailed as a great move by both fans, local media, and national media alike.  He was an instrumental part of the Steelers success.  We didn't know he'd be such a miserable control freak.  He rightfully cut the cord with Donahoe, but the experience was so scary for Ralph he was hesitant to ever give someone outside the organization any power or control that he didn't have a personal relationship with.

11 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think giving 6 or 8 hundred million dollars to the Buffalo area makes up for a lot of lost football games.

 

And not selling out the city to get an enormous amount of extra money like The Chargers, Browns, Raiders, Rams, and I forget who all else did. makes up for a lot of lost football games.

 

And working the lease so it bound the team to us even after he was dead, makes up for a lot of lost football games.

 

Plus you can't reasonably blame Ralph Wilson for the games we have lost after he was dead. 

 

Those are my thoughts.

This is one of those post I have at long last, learned not to make!

 

Even though I wanna.

 

So, no comment.

 

As I stated earlier, you can't deny that Ralph was not charitable or the fact the he never sold out the city.  From a football owner standpoint he made a ton of mistakes and was not a good owner.  This is why I'm conflicted. 

[Paul Costa]

I agree with everything posted above. We need to never forget that Ralph Wilson was responsible for the Buffalo Bills and also respect at the highest level his family selling the franchise to owners that would keep the Bills in Buffalo. And thank God for the Pugulas!! Better times are ahead!! ?? Let’s go Buffalo ???????

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

 

As I stated earlier, you can't deny that Ralph was not charitable or the fact the he never sold out the city.  From a football owner standpoint he made a ton of mistakes and was not a good owner.  This is why I'm conflicted. 

But you are using the term football owner.

 

Those things are part of being the owner.  So is the relationship of the team to the city and the fans and the people. It is a very good one.

 

So it the detail about we wouldn't have a team here, if he didn't make one for us to begin with.

 

If you want to talk about his football decisions. On the whole, I would say, not so great.

 

But there is no conflict at all about how good an owner he was. 

 

We had the Kelly  Era Bills and the Kemp era Bills and we also had some very bad years. The bad years will look different of the new owners can ever get us out of the doldrums. But right now it seems to me like he was not above average if you look at the whole picture, on the win loss part of being an owner. That is how it seems to me. But as for "Owner" I say one of the greatest ever.

 

 

[yungmack]

5 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

In the light of the new WNED documentary Ralph premiering soon, it got me thinking quite a bit about Ralph C. Wilson.

 

Not sure how other fans feel about him, but personally I am torn.  On one hand the Bills fans have to love Ralph’s dedication to keeping the franchise in Buffalo.  If he was greedy, he had multiple chances to relocate or could have sold the franchise  years earlier.  Instead, he appeared to be dedicated to keeping the team in Buffalo.  I always got the impression that his wife, Russ Brandon, and Littman would never sell the team to someone with intentions of relocating.  If it wasn’t for RCW, we wouldn’t have a team in Western, NY.  For that we should all be grateful to him.  

 

On the other hand however, I think Ralph is the biggest reason for the Buffalo Bills near 20 year drought.  Folks, from a football perspective Ralph made some TERRIBLE TERRIBLE decisions that crippled the franchise.  At least in the 30 years that I’ve been following the team.  IMO he made many poor decisions each of which are rooted in the losing culture of this franchise.  

 

There’s many examples of where Ralph’s rash decisions, greatly hurt the football organization:

 

• Firing Bill Polian
• Demanding Rob Johnson start over Doug Flutie
• Firing Wade Phillips for not firing Ronnie Jones
• Firing John Butler (though I think Butler was hell-bent on leaving)

 

These moves were all killers and in most cases, they could have been avoided.  But I think that Ralph’s worst work came after he hired Tom Donahoe as GM and president.  The hiring itself wasn’t a bad choice.  On paper, we had reason to be excited with Donahoe as GM.  But it turned out to be a disaster and it would mark the last time that Ralph would look outside the organization for anyone in a position of power.  He also was notoriously cheap.  Not on players - we all know what kind of deals he gave out to players in Free Agency.  But he appeared to be reluctant in paying for GM's, coaches, scouting departments etc.  

Ralph’s biggest mistake was empowering the wrong individuals to make football decisions within the franchise.

 

- Hiring Marv Levy as GM - Marv was a great coach but way too old to be an effective GM.  As a result Marv, Dick Jauron, and Tom Modrak ran all drafts and personnel decisions.  The results were disastrous

 

-  Empowering Russ Brandon as acting GM and not hiring a real GM - again a terrible decision that hurt the franchise for years to come

 

-  Naming Buddy Nix as GM - again Ralph was to scared to hire someone outside the organization, so he turned to Buddy who previously worked for the Bills.  His tenure as GM was largely unsuccessful and terrible.

 

- Promoting Doug Whaley as GM.  Yet another mistake

 

So while I am looking forward to the Ralph documentary, I’m hoping it’s a balanced look at his life.   Like I said, I'm grateful for his dedication to keeping the team in Buffalo, but I think his poor decisions in the past have ramifications that we still feel today.  Just my 2 cents

The Brandon/Nix/Whaley moves were not Ralph's. His wife took control after the Levy disaster. From then on Ralph was just preparing for landing.

[Chadwick Bay Chad]

He brought the Bills to Buffalo kept them here let the man rest in peace

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, dulles said:

Polian...he's the first domino to fall.  Once he was gone, all the others would eventually tumble.

 

....exactly......and the 17 year patchwork FO & Administration post Polian was a major contributor.......people put in positions that they were not qualified for....people in positions despite being past their prime solely based on "trust"...going to the extreme to atone by hiring Donohole and caving to his "El Presidente" moniker to fuel his control freak ego............throw in the bevy of cheap coaches and/or retreads........= 17 years.............

[machine gun kelly]

The OP is right in many ways and you can add all of the bad front office and coaching hires in the 2000's, but as mentioned he founded this team, kept this team after multiple suitors tried to get it moved and his family made sure it was sold to a huge Buffalo Bills fan who had a ton of money to keep it here.

 

So there is balance in how I view Mr. Wilson.  He spent a ton of money prior to free agency and the cap for the Kelly years.  His knock is outside of Knox and maybe Saban (before my time), he was cheap in hiring coaches.

 

i too was frustrated for so many years with his decisions which led to bad play in Buffalo.  I know it's been an up and down year this year, but believe we finally found in my opinion the right coaches and GM. Next year will really tell after free agency and all of those picks in the draf whether we are on track.

[Livinginthepast]

12 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

In the light of the new WNED documentary Ralph premiering soon, it got me thinking quite a bit about Ralph C. Wilson.

 

Not sure how other fans feel about him, but personally I am torn.  On one hand the Bills fans have to love Ralph’s dedication to keeping the franchise in Buffalo.  If he was greedy, he had multiple chances to relocate or could have sold the franchise  years earlier.  Instead, he appeared to be dedicated to keeping the team in Buffalo.  I always got the impression that his wife, Russ Brandon, and Littman would never sell the team to someone with intentions of relocating.  If it wasn’t for RCW, we wouldn’t have a team in Western, NY.  For that we should all be grateful to him.  

 

On the other hand however, I think Ralph is the biggest reason for the Buffalo Bills near 20 year drought.  Folks, from a football perspective Ralph made some TERRIBLE TERRIBLE decisions that crippled the franchise.  At least in the 30 years that I’ve been following the team.  IMO he made many poor decisions each of which are rooted in the losing culture of this franchise.  

 

There’s many examples of where Ralph’s rash decisions, greatly hurt the football organization:

 

• Firing Bill Polian
• Demanding Rob Johnson start over Doug Flutie
• Firing Wade Phillips for not firing Ronnie Jones
• Firing John Butler (though I think Butler was hell-bent on leaving)

 

These moves were all killers and in most cases, they could have been avoided.  But I think that Ralph’s worst work came after he hired Tom Donahoe as GM and president.  The hiring itself wasn’t a bad choice.  On paper, we had reason to be excited with Donahoe as GM.  But it turned out to be a disaster and it would mark the last time that Ralph would look outside the organization for anyone in a position of power.  He also was notoriously cheap.  Not on players - we all know what kind of deals he gave out to players in Free Agency.  But he appeared to be reluctant in paying for GM's, coaches, scouting departments etc.  

Ralph’s biggest mistake was empowering the wrong individuals to make football decisions within the franchise.

 

- Hiring Marv Levy as GM - Marv was a great coach but way too old to be an effective GM.  As a result Marv, Dick Jauron, and Tom Modrak ran all drafts and personnel decisions.  The results were disastrous

 

-  Empowering Russ Brandon as acting GM and not hiring a real GM - again a terrible decision that hurt the franchise for years to come

 

-  Naming Buddy Nix as GM - again Ralph was to scared to hire someone outside the organization, so he turned to Buddy who previously worked for the Bills.  His tenure as GM was largely unsuccessful and terrible.

 

- Promoting Doug Whaley as GM.  Yet another mistake

 

So while I am looking forward to the Ralph documentary, I’m hoping it’s a balanced look at his life.   Like I said, I'm grateful for his dedication to keeping the team in Buffalo, but I think his poor decisions in the past have ramifications that we still feel today.  Just my 2 cents

I agree with all of this the post was spot on. The only thing I would add about Ralph was that while I appreciated him doing a lot to keep the Bills in Buffalo, the Bills in Toronto series was the final straw of his ownership. I have never been more infuriated than having to watch those terrible games so Ralph and Ted Rogers could make some $ in Toronto. It was a really big insult to Bills fans. Perhaps it wasn't Ralph's fault as he was getting doddery and eccentric (The "Wilson said" speech for ex)  at that point. Maybe Ralph was advised to do it by underlings. Who knows. I would add that the SB losses crushed Ralph (as it did all of us fans) and he was never the same man after. Always felt bad that Ralph never won a SB to go along with the AFL championship, he deserved it.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

Other than keeping the Bills in western NY, which was an absolute positive for local residents, Ralph Wilson was an absolutely horrible owner.

 

I say this, depending on how one defines a good owner.

 

If a good owner is one who makes money, then he was fantastic.

 

If a good owner is one who makes money whilst putting a quality product on the field and is dedicated to winning, then he sucked.

 

He sucked.

 

 

of course all that money was left to charity but yeah, he sucked.

[Gugny]

33 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

of course all that money was left to charity but yeah, he sucked.

 

Again ... if his goal was to make a lot of money, he succeeded.  If his overall goal was philanthropy, then God bless him and he certainly contributed a lot,

 

Judging from a lot of comments I've seen on this site over the years, how much money JDRF gets in donations from One Bills Drive doesn't seem to be the fans' objective.

[T-Bomb]

Wilson was a terrible NFL owner, unfortunately it looks like we have another terrible owner.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

Wilson was a terrible NFL owner, unfortunately it looks like we have another terrible owner.

 

....um, ok thanks........valuable contribution...........

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Happy]

1 hour ago, T-Bomb said:

Wilson was a terrible NFL owner, unfortunately it looks like we have another terrible owner.

I think it's too early to take a position on that.  They made a mistake in the Rex hire, realized it, and quickly made the correction.  Since hiring McDermott and Beane, they have been hands off.

[transient]

14 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

In the light of the new WNED documentary Ralph premiering soon, it got me thinking quite a bit about Ralph C. Wilson.

 

Not sure how other fans feel about him, but personally I am torn.  On one hand the Bills fans have to love Ralph’s dedication to keeping the franchise in Buffalo.  If he was greedy, he had multiple chances to relocate or could have sold the franchise  years earlier.  Instead, he appeared to be dedicated to keeping the team in Buffalo.  I always got the impression that his wife, Russ Brandon, and Littman would never sell the team to someone with intentions of relocating.  If it wasn’t for RCW, we wouldn’t have a team in Western, NY.  For that we should all be grateful to him.  

 

On the other hand however, I think Ralph is the biggest reason for the Buffalo Bills near 20 year drought.  Folks, from a football perspective Ralph made some TERRIBLE TERRIBLE decisions that crippled the franchise.  At least in the 30 years that I’ve been following the team.  IMO he made many poor decisions each of which are rooted in the losing culture of this franchise.  

 

There’s many examples of where Ralph’s rash decisions, greatly hurt the football organization:

 

• Firing Bill Polian
• Demanding Rob Johnson start over Doug Flutie
• Firing Wade Phillips for not firing Ronnie Jones
• Firing John Butler (though I think Butler was hell-bent on leaving)

 

These moves were all killers and in most cases, they could have been avoided.  But I think that Ralph’s worst work came after he hired Tom Donahoe as GM and president.  The hiring itself wasn’t a bad choice.  On paper, we had reason to be excited with Donahoe as GM.  But it turned out to be a disaster and it would mark the last time that Ralph would look outside the organization for anyone in a position of power.  He also was notoriously cheap.  Not on players - we all know what kind of deals he gave out to players in Free Agency.  But he appeared to be reluctant in paying for GM's, coaches, scouting departments etc.  

Ralph’s biggest mistake was empowering the wrong individuals to make football decisions within the franchise.

 

- Hiring Marv Levy as GM - Marv was a great coach but way too old to be an effective GM.  As a result Marv, Dick Jauron, and Tom Modrak ran all drafts and personnel decisions.  The results were disastrous

 

-  Empowering Russ Brandon as acting GM and not hiring a real GM - again a terrible decision that hurt the franchise for years to come

 

-  Naming Buddy Nix as GM - again Ralph was to scared to hire someone outside the organization, so he turned to Buddy who previously worked for the Bills.  His tenure as GM was largely unsuccessful and terrible.

 

- Promoting Doug Whaley as GM.  Yet another mistake

 

So while I am looking forward to the Ralph documentary, I’m hoping it’s a balanced look at his life.   Like I said, I'm grateful for his dedication to keeping the team in Buffalo, but I think his poor decisions in the past have ramifications that we still feel today.  Just my 2 cents

 

Nice post. I agree for the most part.

 

However, John Butler spent this team into cap hell and his ensuing move to San Diego was widely speculated for months before Ralph fired him, therefore he wasn’t left with much of a choice. Butler’s terrible cap management, the inevitable ensuing roster tear down, and Donahoe’s unexpected thin-skinned implosion are what directly led to the first 5+ years of this mess, IMO.

 

Regarding Wade, if your boss tells you to fire someone, you fire them. Falling on the sword for someone as inept as Ronnie Jones appeared to be Wade’s choice. Trying to avoid paying him after was a bad look, though, but potentially justified IMO if Wade was given an ultimatum and chose to leave. 

 

Marv Levy as GM up to the recent housecleaning was about as rudderless as it gets, and stems directly from bad general management which falls on the ownership, or whomever is acting in ownership’s stead. 

 

To me, Ralph as a person was redefined by his amazing posthumous generosity in addition to his wiley lease negotiations that all but guaranteed the Bills would stay in Buffalo upon his death. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

Good god time to move on......why are people obsessed with demonizing a man dead for years now that got the Bills to Buffalo and kept them there.

[corta765]

Polians firing was bad but in context both men at the time were highly competitive and neither were the type to let their ego lose to another (both said as much and in retrospect wish they handled it differently). At the same point John Butler was responsible for the drafting of a pretty solid defense that deserved a better offense.

 

To me Ralph certainly holds a decent amount of responsibility for the drought but to his credit he also owned up to the fact he made mistakes and apologized. I remember I believe it was 2005 he straight up held himself accountable for the team being a disaster. Not saying it helps but I think he at least had a pulse of the fans that I don't believe Terry and Kim have at least yet.

 

To me Ralph's greatest detriment to the Bills was the time from 1999-2007. The NFL was changing very very quickly in terms of paying players, big contracts, TV deals, and how the league was going to be marketed. He 100% understood the business side and owners even credited him for seeing the Owners screwed themselves on the one CBA mid 2000s. BUT he was awful at seeing how player wise things were changing and the amount of money that was being asked. The list of players from basically 2000-2007 that walked out who we drafted and failed to even resign solely for money reasons really sucks. If Pegula was owner with Jason Peters he would still be our starting LT. Nate Clements and McKelvin were basically drafted because Ralph failed to pay up for Antoine Winfield who ended up being better then both and worth the money. There is a laundry list of examples like that. He did the right thing to try and have a czar like Donahoe, but after that refused to let others have a say until Buddy Nix. But after Donahoe he was very cheap with coaches and settled with a lot of retreads. The Marv Levy period may have been the worst drafting in the last 30 years also.

 

Overall he got in the way far too much from 1999-2007. After that he started trying to pay for players, the summer of 08 I think they spent like 90 million on the offensive line for Derrick Dockery & I forgot the other guy but the team wasn't getting the impact guys needed and by that point Buffalo had a poor reputation league wide by players. Mix in the fact he was very controlling GM wise and it was just a mess. After 2008 though he started backing off as his health started going down so I can't really blame the guy much because it was more Brandon.

 

So I would say the first half of the drought is on Ralph, after that between health, Brandon, and the bigger issue of the teams long term future I don't blame him because he was not nearly as involved and had switched how things were being done anyway.

 

Overall as the owner of the Bills the end was disappointing and maybe lost a little luster for him team mgmt wise, but overall for the league he was truly one of the founders and locally always had the best interests in keeping the team viable/in Buffalo.

Edited December 9, 2017 by corta765

[corta765]

3 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

I agree with all of this the post was spot on. The only thing I would add about Ralph was that while I appreciated him doing a lot to keep the Bills in Buffalo, the Bills in Toronto series was the final straw of his ownership. I have never been more infuriated than having to watch those terrible games so Ralph and Ted Rogers could make some $ in Toronto. It was a really big insult to Bills fans. Perhaps it wasn't Ralph's fault as he was getting doddery and eccentric (The "Wilson said" speech for ex)  at that point. Maybe Ralph was advised to do it by underlings. Who knows. I would add that the SB losses crushed Ralph (as it did all of us fans) and he was never the same man after. Always felt bad that Ralph never won a SB to go along with the AFL championship, he deserved it.

 

I understand fan unrest on this, but I would ask fans to really step back big picture wise. The NFL at that point was exploding money wise and if Ralph had died any point pre-2010 this team moved straight up. I think perhaps the team was too heavy handed with the Toronto thing especially moving regular season games there, but I also think Ralph was doing what he had to do so had he passed away the Bills looked stronger as a regional team $ wise and perhaps because of the Toronto affiliation the team could stay in Buffalo. Had the Bills been in the playoffs I don't think the blowback would've been as fierce, but adding Toronto into an already bleak situation did not help. Like I said I never liked the Toronto games and felt they should've just done 1 pre season game a year there instead, but I think if fans heard in owners meetings the back channel discussions on how the Bills were viewed and their viability in Buffalo during the 2000s we would at least be slightly more understanding. Respectfully my .02

[boyst]

He cared about the league and it could likely not be what it is today without him.  And he cared deeply for the players on his team.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:47 AM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Good god time to move on......why are people obsessed with demonizing a man dead for years now that got the Bills to Buffalo and kept them there.

 

...ABSOLUTELY....man put up 25 grand in 1960 (BIG money then) for franchise....loaned 400 grand to Oakland to keep them afloat....offered money to Boston Patriots but they declined...sure as a forty something absentee owner he sat back and watched his investment grow, soon to be tagged with the "cheapskate" moniker into the 70's and 80's.....but he slowly came around and began to take an interest in the game in the 90's.........money was still an issue but I still think Littmann was the grubmaster behind it, protecting his gratis 1% stake in the franchise.....at the end of the day and at the end of his life, he contractually assured the Bills would remain in Buffalo and willed his entire $1.2 BILLION DOLLAR estate to charity.....as you said, (give it up) and move on as he has certainly earned respect IMO............

Edited December 10, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, Dunkirk Don said:

He brought the Bills to Buffalo kept them here let the man rest in peace

 

53 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Good god time to move on......why are people obsessed with demonizing a man dead for years now that got the Bills to Buffalo and kept them there.

 

34 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

He cared about the league and it could likely not be what it is today without him.  And he cared deeply for the players on his team.

 

I'm with you guys.

I wonder how history would of treated Ralph Wilson if his team would of WON those 4 Super Bowls in a row?

[cba fan]

4 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

of course all that money was left to charity but yeah, he sucked.

I don't know why Bills fans keep trying to rewrite history.

Make no mistake this team was being sold to high bidder regardless if they wanted to move or not.

 

Some of that money being left to local charity does not change the fact he did little to stop team from moving. It would have just been a consolation prize if Bills moved. If Bills stayed, the club, the players, and NFL, combined, continually address charitable causes and raise a lot of money year after year after year for charity that would otherwise be taking place in the Bills new city Toronto London Mexico City Portland OK City etc.....

 

Ralph's "will" absolutely stated this team was being sold to high bidder and had no stipulations limiting outside bidders wanting to move the team. The trust was a legally binding corp setup to maximize the return for all those who are beneficiaries of the trust. His spouse, his relatives, Brandon, kids, Littman, and unknown others were ea given a small % of the team.(his spouse obviously large %) They all deserved and received, through the setup of the trust, legal protections to get max return on that gift to prevent the following scenario:

 

Your uncle you dearly love and loves you back dies. You are heir to your uncle's estate of Italian Deli's chain in town X which have a market rate worth at least 20 million. Stipulation is they be sold at his death and heirs paid out. He leaves you 25% which at market rate is 5 million dollars for you. The deli's are a city landmark and treasure causing uproar they may close or move. The executer does not like you due to family squabble. So he sells the deli's to a local super market owner for 200k who promises to keep them in town. You get only 50k now. Trusts are setup and legally binding to prevent this.

 

Ralph put a small temporary roadblock in place to make it harder to move the team, but not even close to stopping a move. 400 million lease breaking cost would have been minor cost to a group of Billionaires and Jon Bon Jovi from Toronto if they really wanted the team. Only thing that stopped that was Jon Bon Jovi ego. His net worth cash on hand was too low so he was unable to be majority contributor and his unwillingness to give up controlling capital outlay prevented the Billionaires from contributing more so they could compete bid with Pegs. They also could have waited a few years and only paid a 28 million penaty or just waited 7 years when lease expired and paid no penalty. Giving them plenty of time to arrange things in Canada and have new stadium done before move so no temp home in Rogers dump dome.

 

I don't know why Bills fans keep trying to rewrite history.

Make no mistake this team was being sold to high bidder regardless if they wanted to move or not.

Edited December 9, 2017 by cba fan

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm with you guys.

I wonder how history would of treated Ralph Wilson if his team would of WON those 4 Super Bowls in a row?

Or even just two of them; Giants and first Cowboys SBs.  I suspect we'd get a lot more respect as being a great franchise and Ralph as being one of the best owners.  I don't think Ralph got the respect he deserves for being an original owner who helped found what is the present NFL.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Or even just two of them; Giants and first Cowboys SBs.  I suspect we'd get a lot more respect as being a great franchise and Ralph as being one of the best owners.  I don't think Ralph got the respect he deserves for being an original owner who helped found what is the present NFL.

 

Glad he got inducted into the HOF before he passed.

He was real proud of that!

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

I don't know why Bills fans keep trying to rewrite history.

Make no mistake this team was being sold to high bidder regardless if they wanted to move or not.

 

Some of that money being left to local charity does not change the fact he did little to stop team from moving. It would have just been a consolation prize if Bills moved. If Bills stayed, the club, the players, and NFL, combined, continually address charitable causes and raise a lot of money year after year after year for charity that would otherwise be taking place in the Bills new city Toronto London Mexico City Portland OK City etc.....

 

Ralph's "will" absolutely stated this team was being sold to high bidder and had no stipulations limiting outside bidders wanting to move the team. The trust was a legally binding corp setup to maximize the return for all those who are beneficiaries of the trust. His spouse, his relatives, Brandon, kids, Littman, and unknown others were ea given a small % of the team.(his spouse obviously large %) They all deserved and received, through the setup of the trust, legal protections to get max return on that gift to prevent the following scenario:

 

Your uncle you dearly love and loves you back dies. You are heir to your uncle's estate of Italian Deli's chain in town X which have a market rate worth at least 20 million. Stipulation is they be sold at his death and heirs paid out. He leaves you 25% which at market rate is 5 million dollars for you. The deli's are a city landmark and treasure causing uproar they may close or move. The executer does not like you due to family squabble. So he sells the deli's to a local super market owner for 200k who promises to keep them in town. You get only 50k now. Trusts are setup and legally binding to prevent this.

 

Ralph put a small temporary roadblock in place to make it harder to move the team, but not even close to stopping a move. 400 million lease breaking cost would have been minor cost to a group of Billionaires and Jon Bon Jovi from Toronto if they really wanted the team. Only thing that stopped that was Jon Bon Jovi ego. His net worth cash on hand was too low so he was unable to be majority contributor and his unwillingness to give up controlling capital outlay prevented the Billionaires from contributing more so they could compete bid with Pegs. They also could have waited a few years and only paid a 28 million penaty or just waited 7 years when lease expired and paid no penalty. Giving them plenty of time to arrange things in Canada and have new stadium done before move so no temp home in Rogers dump dome.

 

I don't know why Bills fans keep trying to rewrite history.

Make no mistake this team was being sold to high bidder regardless if they wanted to move or not.

 

you are correct.  mr wilsons death before the paint was dry on the renovations was crazy timing.  a bit closer to that 28 million dollar buyout and it could have been iffy.  without pegula it is very iffy, if not impossible.  

 

mlse/jon bon jovi doesnt have the liquid capital to compete on purchase price with pegula.  add in a relication fee, 400 million lease buyout (or 7 seasons of lame duck games in front of angry demonstrative fans).  also building costs.  it was not feasible.  an alliance with the rogers family might have made it possible... but after ted's death the family splintered a bit, they made a foolish bid for the nhl, and a lot of the money is tied up

 

 

i do give credit to mr wilson for starting the bills and having them rooted in buffalo for over 50 years.

Edited December 9, 2017 by May Day 10

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

 

i do give credit to mr wilson for starting the bills and having them rooted in buffalo for over 50 years.

 

...and Pegula rides into town, writes a check for $1.4 BILLION, makes expected neophyte/rook owner mistakes, admits them and atones with recent organizational hires, but we have ANOTHER lousy owner according to some TBD pundits.....go figure......TP should call Modell NIGHT Moving & Storage and move 'em before dawn instead of being trashed by board minions...

[oldmanfan]

13 hours ago, yungmack said:

The Brandon/Nix/Whaley moves were not Ralph's. His wife took control after the Levy disaster. From then on Ralph was just preparing for landing.

It was more Littman that his wife I always thought.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

 

I'm with you guys.

I wonder how history would of treated Ralph Wilson if his team would of WON those 4 Super Bowls in a row?

 

I wonder how he would have been treated if those weren't the only four good years in the team's history.

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...and Pegula rides into town, writes a check for $1.4 BILLION, makes expected neophyte/rook owner mistakes, admits them and atones with recent organizational hires, but we have ANOTHER lousy owner according to some TBD pundits.....go figure......TP should call Modell NIGHT Moving & Storage and move 'em before dawn instead of being trashed by board minions...

 

Same people think Beane and McDermott should be fired.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It was more Littman that his wife I always thought.

 

 

....you're correct bud...NEVER his wife.....Littmann was always the fly in the ointment...............research all of Ralph's holdings or charitable organizations and Littmann was the common denominator as bean counter..........and he had a 1% stake in the Bills gratis from Ralph.....so he was THE financial decision maker hiding under his desk while everybody else took the public heat.....if my math is correct, he scored a cool 14 mil when Pegula bought the club.................

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I wonder how he would have been treated if those weren't the only four good years in the team's history.

 

Same people think Beane and McDermott should be fired.

 

...why not?....according to the TBD "One 'N Done Gang", eleven games in to judge their performance is a de facto eternity, right?.....

[BadLandsMeanie]

3 hours ago, cba fan said:

I don't know why Bills fans keep trying to rewrite history.

Make no mistake this team was being sold to high bidder regardless if they wanted to move or not.

 

Some of that money being left to local charity does not change the fact he did little to stop team from moving. It would have just been a consolation prize if Bills moved. If Bills stayed, the club, the players, and NFL, combined, continually address charitable causes and raise a lot of money year after year after year for charity that would otherwise be taking place in the Bills new city Toronto London Mexico City Portland OK City etc.....

 

Ralph's "will" absolutely stated this team was being sold to high bidder and had no stipulations limiting outside bidders wanting to move the team. The trust was a legally binding corp setup to maximize the return for all those who are beneficiaries of the trust. His spouse, his relatives, Brandon, kids, Littman, and unknown others were ea given a small % of the team.(his spouse obviously large %) They all deserved and received, through the setup of the trust, legal protections to get max return on that gift to prevent the following scenario:

 

Your uncle you dearly love and loves you back dies. You are heir to your uncle's estate of Italian Deli's chain in town X which have a market rate worth at least 20 million. Stipulation is they be sold at his death and heirs paid out. He leaves you 25% which at market rate is 5 million dollars for you. The deli's are a city landmark and treasure causing uproar they may close or move. The executer does not like you due to family squabble. So he sells the deli's to a local super market owner for 200k who promises to keep them in town. You get only 50k now. Trusts are setup and legally binding to prevent this.

 

Ralph put a small temporary roadblock in place to make it harder to move the team, but not even close to stopping a move. 400 million lease breaking cost would have been minor cost to a group of Billionaires and Jon Bon Jovi from Toronto if they really wanted the team. Only thing that stopped that was Jon Bon Jovi ego. His net worth cash on hand was too low so he was unable to be majority contributor and his unwillingness to give up controlling capital outlay prevented the Billionaires from contributing more so they could compete bid with Pegs. They also could have waited a few years and only paid a 28 million penaty or just waited 7 years when lease expired and paid no penalty. Giving them plenty of time to arrange things in Canada and have new stadium done before move so no temp home in Rogers dump dome.

 

I don't know why Bills fans keep trying to rewrite history.

Make no mistake this team was being sold to high bidder regardless if they wanted to move or not.

Your version of reality, while relevant to you, isn't factual.

 

It is a twisted slanted incomplete view.

Thanks for contributing though.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

Ralph’s gift of leaving the Bills in Buffalo was his greatest action.

[cba fan]

43 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Your version of reality, while relevant to you, isn't factual.

 

It is a twisted slanted incomplete view.

Thanks for contributing though.

 

 

Not twisted in the slightest. Completely factual. You are in denial as to what really transpired. Go back and review. Do you even know how a legal trust works?

Edited December 9, 2017 by cba fan

[dulles]

9 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I think it's too early to take a position on that.  They made a mistake in the Rex hire, realized it, and quickly made the correction.  Since hiring McDermott and Beane, they have been hands off.

I have to agree.  A bad owner is like Donald Stirling or some other jerk that is merely squeezing the goose to get more gold.  
The Pegulas have been very willing to spend money and that is the contrast with Ralph.  Ralph was reluctant to spend on many areas that impact a franchise.  The Pegulas appear to be willing to invest heavily.  That will pay off over time, especially if they trust and retain good football people.  

[Boatdrinks]

Ralph Wilson played a role in the drought for sure. He fired Bill Polian, which more than likely made a tremendous difference to the team's future performance on the field. He also fired Wade Phillips , who had a winning record as coach. Phillips is also a proven defensive guru , and could have kept that side of the ball strong for some time. The Tom Donahoe hire wasn't a bad one on paper, but he made some questionable decisions. His trade deal with Houston that would have brought Roethlisberger to the Bills in the ' 04 draft was his most impactful failure , though a near miss. What transpired after that was forever altered. After his firing, Donahoe's iron fisted style made Wilson gun shy about the team's power structure. That affected his GM choices, beginning with the spectacularly unqualified Marv Levy. Wilson was now insular to a fault, and a series of uninspired Head Coach hirings and GM choices would ensue. Lastly, Wilsons age and lack of a well known succession plan for ownership after his demise began to have an impact. More highly regarded Head Coches shunned the idea of taking a job with so many unknowns in the team's power hierarchy and even future location. This led to a constant churn of coaches and systems , even the early departure of Doug Marrone who seemed to have the team going in the right direction. This is no way detracting from Ralph's legacy or how he took pains to make it a virtual lock the Bills would remain in Buffalo after his death. All  while managing to enrich his foundation for the purposes of charity at the same time. That is completely separate from the question, which is totally dealing with the impact that Wilson had on the drought . His impact was a pretty major one , in my opinion. 

[BuffaloRush]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Ralph Wilson played a role in the drought for sure. He fired Bill Polian, which more than likely made a tremendous difference to the team's future performance on the field. He also fired Wade Phillips , who had a winning record as coach. Phillips is also a proven defensive guru , and could have kept that side of the ball strong for some time. The Tom Donahoe hire wasn't a bad one on paper, but he made some questionable decisions. His trade deal with Houston that would have brought Roethlisberger to the Bills in the ' 04 draft was his most impactful failure , though a near miss. What transpired after that was forever altered. After his firing, Donahoe's iron fisted style made Wilson gun shy about the team's power structure. That affected his GM choices, beginning with the spectacularly unqualified Marv Levy. Wilson was now insular to a fault, and a series of uninspired Head Coach hirings and GM choices would ensue. Lastly, Wilsons age and lack of a well known succession plan for ownership after his demise began to have an impact. More highly regarded Head Coches shunned the idea of taking a job with so many unknowns in the team's power hierarchy and even future location. This led to a constant churn of coaches and systems , even the early departure of Doug Marrone who seemed to have the team going in the right direction. This is no way detracting from Ralph's legacy or how he took pains to make it a virtual lock the Bills would remain in Buffalo after his death. All  while managing to enrich his foundation for the purposes of charity at the same time. That is completely separate from the question, which is totally dealing with the impact that Wilson had on the drought . His impact was a pretty major one , in my opinion. 

 

I agree with this 100%