Andy Benoit: Eagles and Rams Developed Wentz and Goff the Right Way

[26CornerBlitz]

Quote

 

Seven times in NFL history, quarterbacks have been taken 1 and 2 in the draft. The first five times, at least one team wound up disappointed, while the sixth time (Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota) brought two quality starters with a chance to develop into something more. The seventh time, the two franchises appear to have struck gold.

 

Time will tell whether or not they sustain this success, but when Jared Goff and Carson Wentz take the field at the L.A. Coliseum this Sunday, the 2016 No. 1 pick, Goff, will have passer rating of 98.4 on the season. The No. 2 pick, Wentz, will have a rating of 102.0. Their offenses will enter as the only ones averaging over 30 points per game, and their teams will be a combined 19-5, with front-runner positioning for an NFC playoff bye week on the line.

 

How did we get here? And how did we arrive so soon? Before exploring that, let’s understand one thing: This is not a debate about who is better between Goff or Wentz. Because there is no debate. It’s Wentz. He and Goff may have entered the league in the same class of QBs, but the class Wentz resides in now includes the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Ryan and Brees. Goff, on the other hand, is still roaming the halls, searching for a room, bumping into QBs like Derek Carr and Jameis Winston along the way.

 

 

[blacklabel]

Really? He's already crowning Wentz alongside guys like Brady and Brees? That's a little premature, IMO. Wentz is having an excellent season but the key factor in him being mentioned in the same class as those QBs would be consistency. Can/will he play like that each season?

 

And it's interesting to see how things have played out between Winston/Mariota and Wentz/Goff. Popular opinion said Winston and Mariota would be the better players. But as of right now, Goff and Wentz are quite a ways ahead of those dudes. 

[klos63]

Obviously both QB's are progressing very well and look to have great futures, but these are the #1 and #2 picks, no surprise that they are doing well. I think a big reason is that both players are surrounded by great talent. Strong lines, great running games and excellent receivers makes it much easier for QB's to have early success. I'm not so sure the 'development strategy' is the key or just having a lineup a excellent players at all positions.

Edited December 7, 2017 by klos63

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Kudo's to both.   

 

Unfortunately we won't know who they really are for another few seasons.  

[JohnC]

Getting the qb is obviously important. But putting your expensive investment in the best possible situation is critical to the success of your  qb and team. Let's look at the Goff situation to illustrate that point. The organization in one offseasond surrounded the qb with added talent and dramatically better coaching compared to his rookie year. Those upgrades certainly contributed to his leap forward in this second year. The Rams added two starting offensive linemen and they significantly added talent to the receiving corps with the addition of Kupp, Woods and Watkins. With the improvement in the OL their running game with Gurley as their prime back took a lot of pressure off of the young qb.  When the tally is added up in what the Rams did in one offseason it was really smart and impressive.

[BuffaloBill]

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Kudo's to both.   

 

Unfortunately we won't know who they really are for another few seasons.  

 

 

I tend to believe this will be the case.  Look at what has happened with some who have come before, RGIII crashed and burned and a less severe example of a first year darling falling from grace is Dak Prescott.  The league s generally cruel to QB’s and sustaining a high level of performance is very difficult.  Maybe these two will defy the odds.

[Coach Tuesday]

Wentz is more like Big Ben.  He throws a lot of balls up for grabs.  Goff reminds me of Alex Smith.

[Steptide]

I feel like the rams have a ton of weapons on offense and have a qb who's not afraid to throw it. If Goff was a bill I suspect he wouldn't be nearly as good as what he's been this year 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I tend to believe this will be the case.  Look at what has happened with some who have come before, RGIII crashed and burned and a less severe example of a first year darling falling from grace is Dak Prescott.  The league s generally cruel to QB’s and sustaining a high level of performance is very difficult.  Maybe these two will defy the odds.

 

Look at the offensive systems as well as the supporting casts with good OLs, strong running games, and a nice complement of weapons for each. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Look at the offensive systems as well as the supporting casts with good OLs, strong running games, and a nice complement of weapons for each. 

 

 

Yeah but that also supports my point, coaches change, supporting casts change and d-coordinators “figure out” guys (not to mention injuries happen).  The combination of these factors makes it hard for QB’s to remain on top of the heap.  Again, both of these guys have the talent to do it but we will not know until a couple of more seasons pass if they can sustain their early accomplishments.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Getting the qb is obviously important. But putting your expensive investment in the best possible situation is critical to the success of your  qb and team. Let's look at the Goff situation to illustrate that point. The organization in one offseasond surrounded the qb with added talent and dramatically better coaching compared to his rookie year. Those upgrades certainly contributed to his leap forward in this second year. The Rams added two starting offensive linemen and they significantly added talent to the receiving corps with the addition of Kupp, Woods and Watkins. With the improvement in the OL their running game with Gurley as their prime back took a lot of pressure off of the young qb.  When the tally is added up in what the Rams did in one offseason it was really smart and impressive.

sounds like an endorsement for drafting O Line men this spring

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

Yeah but that also supports my point, coaches change, supporting casts change and d-coordinators “figure out” guys (not to mention injuries happen).  The combination of these factors makes it hard for QB’s to remain on top of the heap.  Again, both of these guys have the talent to do it but we will not know until a couple of more seasons pass if they can sustain their early accomplishments.

 

Of course they have to prove they can sustain a level of good play over the course of time and I like their chances given what they've been given to work with. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I tend to believe this will be the case.  Look at what has happened with some who have come before, RGIII crashed and burned and a less severe example of a first year darling falling from grace is Dak Prescott.  The league s generally cruel to QB’s and sustaining a high level of performance is very difficult.  Maybe these two will defy the odds.

I was going to mention RG III but chose not to along with Jay Cutler,  Kyle Orton, Jake Plummer, Tim Tebow all over hyped JAG quarter backs 

 

hmmm all but RGIII played in Denver 

 

[BigBuff423]

Getting a QB is THE priority this Off-season, but the Bills will have plenty of FA money to do much, much more....from getting a couple new WRs, Offensive line, new TE, and probably a new RB (not that Shady hasn't been great), while also getting key defensive players to help with field position and getting the Offense back on the field.

 

Let's also keep in mind this is the SECOND season for both of them.....meaning, you can't bail on your young, developing QB after one season. You have to stick him out there, let him learn by throwing INTs, getting hit and getting back up, learning the Offense and for God's sake, keep the same OC. So, Bills - if you're going to change OCs, for the love of God, do it BEFORE you draft your QB of the future and then let him grow and develop. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Yeah but that also supports my point, coaches change, supporting casts change and d-coordinators “figure out” guys (not to mention injuries happen).  The combination of these factors makes it hard for QB’s to remain on top of the heap.  Again, both of these guys have the talent to do it but we will not know until a couple of more seasons pass if they can sustain their early accomplishments.

 

 

you are talking to a man who has anointed Nate a failure before he took the first snap in LA.   

[GoBills808]

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

Getting a QB is THE priority this Off-season, but the Bills will have plenty of FA money to do much, much more.

Don't forget we need an O Line to protect any QB and get the running game going.  The WR position can wait until FA.

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

 

   

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

 

  He sure did whiff there. Personally,  I never liked either Bortles nor Tannehill.

Edited December 7, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Benoit has 20/20 hindsight. Good for him. 

[C.Biscuit97]

The Bills hooked the Rams up.  And the Rams developed of Goff last year was terrible.

 

sadly, the Bills suck at picking Qbs and developing them.

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

But it's andy Benoit!!!

[Jasovon]

look at their offensive lines, that is a big big part of why these guys look so good and guys like Winston seem to struggle. Tough to throw when you're on your back. 

[boyst]

Cool, click bait to something way too presumptuous and early to declare!

[TheElectricCompany]

32 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

sounds like an endorsement for drafting O Line men this spring

The better question, is the offense as constructed "good enough" for a young QB to succeed? 

I think it's a decent situation with average talent. It will never be perfect. 

[GoBills808]

Look I've liked Wentz from day 1 and I think he's going to be great eventually, but you can't put him in the same class as Brady and Rodgers...he's not even in the same school district. 

[Big C]

1 hour ago, blacklabel said:

Really? He's already crowning Wentz alongside guys like Brady and Brees? That's a little premature, IMO. Wentz is having an excellent season but the key factor in him being mentioned in the same class as those QBs would be consistency. Can/will he play like that each season?

 

And it's interesting to see how things have played out between Winston/Mariota and Wentz/Goff. Popular opinion said Winston and Mariota would be the better players. But as of right now, Goff and Wentz are quite a ways ahead of those dudes. 

 

I mean, if you saw Wentz last year, how he was making checks at the line and calling audibles from the start and compare that to how Goff is right now having his coach call the audibles for him through the headset, it makes sense that they would be making a claim like this. Wentz looks like the real deal, while I'm still not sure Goff isn't Nick Foles in Chip Kelly's system. But, of course, time will tell.

[Alaska Darin]

The Rams did NOT develop Goff properly.  His rookie season was a disaster and he looked like a complete bust.  The coaching and personnel changes they made this off season benefited him tremendously.  Had they stuck with Fisher, he'd be well on his way to Ryan Leaf status.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

If we're to be successful we'll have to spend the picks and get the guy your scouts are nuts for. Then once you have your guy, surround him with a much better line than we have now. And pray we can get 1-2 more quality years from Shady. I would have no problem if the Bills have their pick develop and watch for at least 8 games or more.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

sounds like an endorsement for drafting O Line men this spring

LA traded up to get Goff. The next year in free agency they got two starters in Whitworth and Sullivan. My position is consistent with no equivocation: Get your qb first. That is the priority. Then build up the roster by anyway you can i.e. the draft, free agency and trades. It's not easy but it is not complicated.  

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

It is FAR EASIER to "develop a QB the right way" when you have competent and wise management who chooses the right coach on top of it.

 

Could you imagine the large amount of talent that has suffered under incompetent organizations? It is a very long list.

 

Goff or Wentz would probably suffer the same fate as Andrew Luck in Indy at best and Alex Smith in San Fran at worst.

[nucci]

12 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

Getting a QB is THE priority this Off-season, but the Bills will have plenty of FA money to do much, much more....from getting a couple new WRs, Offensive line, new TE, and probably a new RB (not that Shady hasn't been great), while also getting key defensive players to help with field position and getting the Offense back on the field.

 

Let's also keep in mind this is the SECOND season for both of them.....meaning, you can't bail on your young, developing QB after one season. You have to stick him out there, let him learn by throwing INTs, getting hit and getting back up, learning the Offense and for God's sake, keep the same OC. So, Bills - if you're going to change OCs, for the love of God, do it BEFORE you draft your QB of the future and then let him grow and develop. 

Why wasn't it a priority last season? Deshaun Watson was available and they didn't have to trade up and use extra picks

[unclepete]

13 hours ago, klos63 said:

Obviously both QB's are progressing very well and look to have great futures, but these are the #1 and #2 picks, no surprise that they are doing well. I think a big reason is that both players are surrounded by great talent. Strong lines, great running games and excellent receivers makes it much easier for QB's to have early success. I'm not so sure the 'development strategy' is the key or just having a lineup a excellent players at all positions.

This, you surround a young QB with talent and they’ll develop. But place those guys onto Browns and watch them struggle. They also have good coaches. Hopefully we can build around a new QB next year. 

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Look at the offensive systems as well as the supporting casts with good OLs, strong running games, and a nice complement of weapons for each. 

 

 

Look at what both QBs are doing with their excellent play to make the players around them look really good.

 

Last year both guys looked like they might not be franchise guys. Wentz had a terrific start but tailed off and looked like he might've been figured out. Goff looked like he just might not be good enough. 

 

The Eagles had the same OL both years. Agholor, Celek and Ertz both years. Yup, they brought in some new guys, and that surely helped. But most of the people around Wentz were there last year. 

 

Of course, the article is right that they brought him along correctly and brought in good people to support him. But an awful lot of the reason he's playing better and the people around him are too is simply that Wentz got an awful lot better.

 

The Rams brought in two new guys on the line with Whitworth and Sullivan. One guy who'd been a Ram last year took over as starter at RG, Jamon Brown. Gurley looks a ton better this year as the passing offense has improved a ton to take the pressure off him. They brought in Watkins and Woods. Woods looks a lot better with Goff throwing to him than he did previously.  Watkins hasn't. I'd thought if he stayed healthy he was going to be terrific. He hasn't looked better than decent. The new system probably helped a lot, but I'd argue that though the team again did a good job of bringing in guys around him, that as big a difference as that is simply that Goff got a lot better in his second year.

 

I agree that the teams have done a good job supporting them. But a lot of the reason both guys are doing well is that they both improved a great deal. Particularly Wentz. Wentz was in much the same system last year.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Look I've liked Wentz from day 1 and I think he's going to be great eventually, but you can't put him in the same class as Brady and Rodgers...he's not even in the same school district. 

 

 

IMHO he meant he's playing in that same class right now. Which I agree with. Wasn't saying he'd proven he'll have a similar career as those guys.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Thurman#1

[BigBuff423]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

Why wasn't it a priority last season? Deshaun Watson was available and they didn't have to trade up and use extra picks

 

But to be fair, Beane and his staff weren't here....and given how quickly Doug et. al. were fired, and I don't think anybody with a brain will disagree, it was mostly McD's draft with Whaley's staff scouting information. So, it's a guess, but I'm guessing the whole idea of trading down and gathering more picks was so the in-coming GM and staff could hand pick their QB of the future, along with McD's input about what he wants as well. 

 

We may disagree, but in my mind it was strategic. And again, we may disagree, but IMHO this has all been strategic....every move, every draft pick acquisition has been leading up to this 2018 Off-season with the intent to finish the dismantling that started last year. Also, it's only 2/3 of a year, but so far there have been some really good signs of life and potential from this Draft class. People will pick on Zay, but for a Rookie WR, it's about as expected - what's truly important is his progress. 

 

At one point in another thread that I'm too lazy to find, I posted some all-time top 10 WR numbers in their Rookie years....it wasn't pretty for the most part. And yes, different era of football, but they're all time greats for a reason. 

[Bing Bong]

20 hours ago, JohnC said:

Getting the qb is obviously important. But putting your expensive investment in the best possible situation is critical to the success of your  qb and team. Let's look at the Goff situation to illustrate that point. The organization in one offseasond surrounded the qb with added talent and dramatically better coaching compared to his rookie year. Those upgrades certainly contributed to his leap forward in this second year. The Rams added two starting offensive linemen and they significantly added talent to the receiving corps with the addition of Kupp, Woods and Watkins. With the improvement in the OL their running game with Gurley as their prime back took a lot of pressure off of the young qb.  When the tally is added up in what the Rams did in one offseason it was really smart and impressive.

Yep, great offseason for the Rams. I'd argue they threw him out to drown the season before with Jeff Fisher. The GM really had no plan for Goff, didn't set him up for success until he had a chance to rebuild the next offense. If we see our guy in the draft, just go for him, offensive components be darned.

 

Then try to build around him with whatever you have left.

[John from Riverside]

David Carr (who I still think can turn it around) was at this point in his career last year to.

 

 

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

IMHO he meant he's playing in that same class right now. Which I agree with. Wasn't saying he'd proven he'll have a similar career as those guys.

He's not, is my point. His stats are right there but he doesn't have the same feel for the game those top guys do. He's not as consistently mechanical in his delivery, and his decision making isn't always as sharp. That's not to say he isn't a second-year guy and a tremendous player, and maybe MVP candidate, it's just that he's not at that level yet.

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

David Carr (who I still think can turn it around) was at this point in his career last year to.

 

Derek is who you mean of course.  

[John from Riverside]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Derek is who you mean of course.  

Yes sorry

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

26 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

David [Derek] Carr (who I still think can turn it around) was at this point in his career last year to.

 

 

He's been improving since his rookie season up to his back injury.  Progress all 3 seasons.   

 

Wish that was like that here 

 

I mixed them up the opposite the other day.  

Edited December 8, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz