Peterman Arm Strength

[Kaenon]

19 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Peterman has a lot going for him.  I think his number 1 attribute may be his intelligence and decision making.   The Wonderlic test presumably measures quick and accurate thinking.   Peterman had a 32 on the Wonderlic, not lights out, but among the best of the QBs coming out of the last draft, and pretty good overall.   Taylor had an apparently had a 15, and the biggest complaint about Taylor is decision making and a slow trigger.   We'll see about that.

 

The biggest complaint about Peterman, and something certainly worth worrying about, is arm strength.   I didn't know it, but at the combine they use a radar gun to determine the release velocity of thrown footballs.   Peterman was 49 mph, among the worst at the combine.   The best is in the high 50s, and just about all the name guys coming out of the draft are at or above 55.   So Peterman is 10-15% below where the best prospects are.   Over the years, very few guys are clocked below 50.    In fact, the only familiar name at the bottom of the velocity test is - Tyrod Taylor, clocked at 50.  

 

Now,  Taylor's interesting to me, because arm strength has not been a problem since he came to the Bills.   Did he improve his delivery and increase his delivery velocity in his four seasons at Baltimore?   I don't know, but if he did, that means that Peterman's major weakness could be addressed.   Brady also had a pretty poor deep ball early in his career, and he's improved that a lot.  Maybe there's hope. 

 

You can see all the numbers here.

Numbers are all well and good but Peterman is still developing and has more room to get stronger and improve mechanics to increase velocity. 

 

See the Kelvin Benjamin throw that KB dropped.

 

Michah Hyde calls NP, Nate Favre. 

[co_springs_billsfan]

15 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

 

let's also add that one can increase their arm strength. Peterman has all the traits necessary to succeed.

Agreed. Though I have no idea how much it can be increased.

[K-9]

Can he make the long out from the far hash on time out of a 5 step drop without a hitch? That's all you need to know about arm strength. Period. 

[KD in CA]

46 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Honest question and think hard. 

 

Why always so conservative?

 

Maybe because being SAFE could protect the lead BUT if the lead was lost the BILLS lost

 

see KC 2 seasons ago and Oakland last season.  

 

Sometimes conservative bites you on the ass. Ask ATL about the SB

 

Bad example.  Not being conservative is what cost Atlanta the SB.    

[Shaw66]

15 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Shaw, like him or not Romo in his prime was a great QB (not in the GOAT discussion to be sure, but still a great QB imo). The knock on him (one of them) coming out was "only average" arm strength. I agree with your Fitz comment but I strongly suspect NP is much closer to Romo than Fitz as far as arm strength is concerned. So not a throw limiting weak arm. I also agree that we will only know for sure after we have seen a lot more of him. If my guess is right chances are we may have landed a real steal at the all important position. 

Yeah, I can't argue with that.   From the very little bit I've seen of Nate, I'd say he throws a ball much like Romo.   And if that's true, that's good enough.   It was a limitation for Romo, but not so limiting that he didn't succeed in the league.   I'd take a young healthy Romo any day.

 

We have to wait and see.  Or I have to wait and see.  Some people already have made up their minds.  

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, co_springs_billsfan said:

Agreed. Though I have no idea how much it can be increased.

I think it often can be increased with coaching and training.   

 

My son is a good athlete.  In Little League he couldn't throw.  I started watching kids throw and studied a little.  Then I showed him the proper hip and shoulder turn, he practiced it a while, and he became one of the best throwers in the league. 

 

Watch some of the best throwers - shortstops and second basemen, Rodgers, Newton.   Those guys throw with velocity even when their hips are out of position to get good hip rotation.   They do it with a quick should er turn, which you get from strength through you midsection.   They have a powerful quick little upper body rotation and the ball zips out. 

 

For a very few athletes, it comes naturally.  But for plenty of good athletes, it can be learned.   

16 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Can he make the long out from the far hash on time out of a 5 step drop without a hitch? That's all you need to know about arm strength. Period. 

Well, it's a little more than that, but yes.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

45 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They lost the lead against Atlanta and Tampa late and still won. The conservative playcalling is just McDermotts way. 

 

And the Atlanta SB is a COMPLETELY different situation. They were up 28-3 late third quarter. That calls for being conservative. Bills have gone conservative early third up one score in some games. 

We will see how conservative Sean is this Sunday.  

25 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

Bad example.  Not being conservative is what cost Atlanta the SB.    

If there is one thing to learn from Belicheat

 

Never take your foot off of the gas.  

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, it's a little more than that, but yes.  

Yes, but not much, really. Here's the thing, if a QB can't make that throw, nothing else will matter to scouts when it comes to grading his arm strength. It's the one throw they key on more than any other in personal workouts. For obvious reasons. If it doesn't have the preferable velocity to get there on time, then they have to be satisfied that his other mechanics (release, lower body, etc.) can compensate. The long out is a critical throw for offenses to complete in critical game situations as well as to set up other things later on but it's too risky when not delivered on time. 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yes, but not much, really. Here's the thing, if a QB can't make that throw, nothing else will matter to scouts when it comes to grading his arm strength. It's the one throw they key on more than any other in personal workouts. For obvious reasons. If it doesn't have the preferable velocity to get there on time, then they have to be satisfied that his other mechanics (release, lower body, etc.) can compensate. The long out is a critical throw for offenses to complete in critical game situations as well as to set up other things later on but it's too risky when not delivered on time. 

Yeah, I agree that if you can't make that throw, you're not the guy.   But arm strength also allows the best QBs to make throws when their bodies aren't in position to have perfect mechanics.   It allows them to throw deep more accurately.   Those things are also nice to have.

 

But you're right that the throw you're talking about is essential to high end quarterbacking.  

[Tcali]

Peterman looks like he has a mediocre throwing arm...Funny delivery but decent accuracy. But these things can be overcome by quick thinking,anticipatory throws,other intangibles.

There have been plenty of good QBs without the good arm.

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I agree that if you can't make that throw, you're not the guy.   But arm strength also allows the best QBs to make throws when their bodies aren't in position to have perfect mechanics.   It allows them to throw deep more accurately.   Those things are also nice to have.

 

But you're right that the throw you're talking about is essential to high end quarterbacking.  

Great point. That's why I love Aaron Rodgers so much. I mean the guy actually practices those kinds of throws. 

[Teddy KGB]

14 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I was told his game wouldn't translate because of this stupid metric.

 

Fire that person.  

 

 

[Shaw66]

18 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Great point. That's why I love Aaron Rodgers so much. I mean the guy actually practices those kinds of throws. 

I agree.   Some of that is athleticism, but as you say, he has practiced.   He's learned to throw the ball from all kinds of positions.   

 

Watch the replays when he makes those throws.  He always finds a way to get his body, particularly his upper body, into the throw.  It's often just a quick twitch, but it gives him to deliver the ball on a line instead of throwing a wounded duck. 

29 minutes ago, Tcali said:

Peterman looks like he has a mediocre throwing arm...Funny delivery but decent accuracy. But these things can be overcome by quick thinking,anticipatory throws,other intangibles.

There have been plenty of good QBs without the good arm.

Everybody says this, but I don't think there are plenty.  Or even a few. 

 

If I have a strong arm and I think quickly, I'm better than your guy who thinks quickly with a weak arm.  Can you say FItzpatrick?

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

Fire that person.  

 

 

 

 

Fire McDermott for passing on Watson?

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Yes, but not much, really. Here's the thing, if a QB can't make that throw, nothing else will matter to scouts when it comes to grading his arm strength. It's the one throw they key on more than any other in personal workouts. For obvious reasons. If it doesn't have the preferable velocity to get there on time, then they have to be satisfied that his other mechanics (release, lower body, etc.) can compensate. The long out is a critical throw for offenses to complete in critical game situations as well as to set up other things later on but it's too risky when not delivered on time. 

Thank you. Entirely true. I haven’t seen every throw Nate has made in college but I haven’t seen him make it. I’m not sure he can. Hopefully he can. 

[GoBills808]

Montana, Brady, and Manning didn't have huge arms. Neither does Matt Ryan. Or Alex Smith. 

 

Stafford does. Bledsoe, George, Culpepper, they all did. Kaepernick and Cutler and Bortles. It's simply a mixed bag.

[Kelly the Dog]

30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.   Some of that is athleticism, but as you say, he has practiced.   He's learned to throw the ball from all kinds of positions.   

 

Watch the replays when he makes those throws.  He always finds a way to get his body, particularly his upper body, into the throw.  It's often just a quick twitch, but it gives him to deliver the ball on a line instead of throwing a wounded duck. 

Everybody says this, but I don't think there are plenty.  Or even a few. 

 

If I have a strong arm and I think quickly, I'm better than your guy who thinks quickly with a weak arm.  Can you say FItzpatrick?

Fitzy is a whole other problem though. He processes information faster but in order to get the proficient arm strength and velocity he has to wind up and throw it like a baseball, therefore losing back what he gained. 

[Teddy KGB]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Fire McDermott for passing on Watson?

 

 

Fire the poster who posted the "weak arm velocity" no chance for Watson theory.    

 

Fire McBeane too ?   Sure,  unless that 6th rounder we got for Dareus saves the franchise ?

 

They get another two years and get to tie themselves to the qb we trade up for next draft. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Fitzy is a whole other problem though. He processes information faster but in order to get the proficient arm strength and velocity he has to wind up and throw it like a baseball, therefore losing back what he gained. 

That's exactly the point.  The guys with strong arms (meaning mechanics that allow them to throw with greater velocity) don't wind up.   Quick thinking without a strong arm doesn't get you much in most cases.   

 

Fitzy was quick thinking, weak arm. 

 

Taylor looks like slow thinking, strong arm.

 

Peterman, we hope, is quick thinking with a good enough arm to get the job done.   

 

We'll see. 

[SaviorPeterman]

22 hours ago, Rise Up Lights said:

Found this video interesting. It was made not long before he was drafted. A throwback to high school days. I didn't realize that NP was a four star recruit coming out. Mike Farrell, a Rivals recruiter who was scouting Peterman mentions 3 or 4 times that he has a cannon arm and a gunslinger mentality. 

 

 

Thanks for posting this, I was looking for it but couldn't find it.

 

I truly believe that a few years down the road people are going to be asking how on earth NP fell to the 5th round.

 

It's our time to finally hit the jackpot and get stupid lucky with a QB prospect that most didn't see coming. Not saying he's the next Brady, but certainly could be the next Romo and is a very similar player in many ways quite frankly.

[GoBills808]

^I would commit murder for the next Romo.

[Kelly the Dog]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's exactly the point.  The guys with strong arms (meaning mechanics that allow them to throw with greater velocity) don't wind up.   Quick thinking without a strong arm doesn't get you much in most cases.   

 

Fitzy was quick thinking, weak arm. 

 

Taylor looks like slow thinking, strong arm.

 

Peterman, we hope, is quick thinking with a good enough arm to get the job done.   

 

We'll see. 

Yep. Good enough to get most of the job done. Yet to be seen if he can make all the throws. We may not even find out Sunday. Insufficient arm strength is not something that kills you every week.

[Figster]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

this is a forum where the written word is all that one has to try and understand what the posters intent is. if you feel you are being misunderstood, might i suggest that you try and elucidate your thoughts more clearly into the written word form then?

I understand Shaw fine and appreciate the honest, open and well mannered dialogue he brings to the table.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

53 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

 

Fire the poster who posted the "weak arm velocity" no chance for Watson theory.    

 

Fire McBeane too ?   Sure,  unless that 6th rounder we got for Dareus saves the franchise ?

 

They get another two years and get to tie themselves to the qb we trade up for next draft. 

 

 

If the trend of young Bills stars that McD dumped being key players on the league's better teams continues and Watson resumes his ascent to superstar status.........while Peterman is benched at midseason next year in favor of Derek Anderson or something similar..........I think McD might not survive to see year 3.

Edited November 17, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[eball]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yep. Good enough to get most of the job done. Yet to be seen if he can make all the throws. We may not even find out Sunday. Insufficient arm strength is not something that kills you every week.

 

Chad Pennington agrees.

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I understand Shaw fine and appreciate the honest, open and well mannered dialogue he brings to the table.

 

 

he's the one who said he was misunderstood. just trying to help the old fellow.

 

additionally, he is only well mannered as long as you agree with him.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Foxx

[JM2009]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I understand Shaw fine and appreciate the honest, open and well mannered dialogue he brings to the table.

 

 

Me too.

[Kaenon]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And Von Miller called Trever Simeon Peyton Manning. ?

Post-op Peyton though, lol.

[Figster]

32 minutes ago, Foxx said:

he's the one who said he was misunderstood. just trying to help the old fellow.

 

additionally, he is only well mannered as long as you agree with him.

I find myself in disagreement with Shaw on many things,

 

and I like it...

[Foxx]

i'm glad your experience has been plesant. unfortunately, not everyone can say that.

[Heathcliff]

Have we all agreed that arm strength does or doesn't matter?  This is why decisions by committee never work!  LOL

[Doc]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If the trend of young Bills stars that McD dumped being key players on the league's better teams continues and Watson resumes his ascent to superstar status.........while Peterman is benched at midseason next year in favor of Derek Anderson or something similar..........I think McD might not survive to see year 3.

 

What key players did he dump on the league's better teams, outside of arguably Dareus on the Jags?  And was passing on Watson on him and him alone?

 

As for Peterman, I think they'll have a sense after 7 games.  And it won't be all on McD.

[snamsnoops]

I like what i have seen from peter man. So far anyways! He is the opposite of TT. 

 

I was a TT fan at first. He was new, fresh, and exciting, but after the past couple seasons it has grown old. I see what he is...... A great athlete but as far as reading a D pre n post snap and anticipating a throw. He is not.

 

NP on the other hand seems to be better pre snap and throwing a wr open. Allowing more YAC and spreading D's out, opening play for our running game maybe. It's sad we had the best run game the past 2 years and now is mediocore  at best. We have a new O this season and TT isn't a WCO QB, NP is. Dennison obviously isn't catering his O to TT strengths, so Playing Peter man tells me that this new staff aint F'n around about finding a franchise QB!

 

It appeared they didnt think of TT as a franchise QB by resigning him to a reduced\modified contract, and now benching him. In a season where we are currently in a playoff hunt (end the drought) with a rookie head coach.

 

I am opptomistic but will wait n see!

[Ol Dirty B]

16 hours ago, dubs said:

 

 

ummmm....ok....let me try and make the point more obvious.

 

This thread has been debating the importance of arm strength in the NFL and if Peterman's arm strength is adequate.

 

The original post brought some interesting data to the discussion, showing the measurement of velocity of throws of all QBs in recent drafts.

 

Mitch Trubisky was the second overall pick in the draft this past year, Nathan Peterman was drafted in the 5th round, yet they had virtually the same measurements.

 

So, either the Trubisky had a bad day at the combine, that measurement doesn't measure arm strength well, arm strength isn't as important as some seem to suggest, or there is some minimal benchmark a QB needs to surpass to have the necessary arm strength in the NFL.  Got it?

 

 

 

No I don't because while Mitch was the #2 pick the guy has looked like ass so far.

 

So using that metric or anything else that compares him to Trubisky and hold that up as a positive for Peterman is actually just irrelevant and uninteresting to me.

 

The combine is largely boring and irrelevant. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Ol Dirty B

[Buffalo86]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:23 PM, dubs said:

 

I think it's more about how quickly balls get to their destination that the actual distance.  Less time in the air, less time for defenders to react...

 

This is correct.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If the trend of young Bills stars that McD dumped being key players on the league's better teams continues and Watson resumes his ascent to superstar status.........while Peterman is benched at midseason next year in favor of Derek Anderson or something similar..........I think McD might not survive to see year 3.

Your talking about those young stars that helped us miss the playoffs last year and the year before and the year before...

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What key players did he dump on the league's better teams, outside of arguably Dareus on the Jags?  And was passing on Watson on him and him alone?

 

As for Peterman, I think they'll have a sense after 7 games.  And it won't be all on McD.

Hes just pissed cause hes got to replace his Dareus jersey now.

[Big Gun]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:23 PM, dubs said:

 

I think it's more about how quickly balls get to their destination that the actual distance.  Less time in the air, less time for defenders to react...

Kind of like drag racing. 

 

A car might go more MPH but lose the race to a quicker reaction time car.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

Your talking about those young stars that helped us miss the playoffs last year and the year before and the year before...

 

 

 

Speaking of playoffs.........if you are sensitiive to Bills criticism absolutely do not watch them this year.  

 

"Better Bills than Buffalo" could be repeated and re-tweeted quite a bit in January.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/16/2017 at 3:54 PM, Shaw66 said:

But don't you see that "adjusting the timing" means you have to throw earlier than the guy who throws with greater velocity?   If you hae to throw earlier you have to decide earlier, and deciding earlier means you're going to make the wrong decision sometimes, because you couldn't wait the extra split second.   

 

No, adjusting the timing means you have to adjust the timing, early or late.

 

My understanding of how it goes for a WCO based on timing routes is, you work out your timing for a guy running an unimpeded route on a good field.  Normally you have to slow the timing a bit to account for physical contact with the WR slowing him down, sub-optimal field conditions, WR fatigue or injury etc.  I'm happy to be corrected, but this is what logically makes sense.

Where I can see velocity mattering is in a broken play where WR and QB are improvising, and the QB sees something and has a tight window to get it in there.

On 11/16/2017 at 4:28 PM, TheFunPolice said:

I would assume that ANY NFL QB could "make all the throws" in terms of physically getting the ball there. It's just a matter of how effective/accurate they are.

 

I'm not quite sure that's true.  One extreme example would be Fitzpatrick, to make a long throw, he had to involve his whole body (possibly due to improper lower body mechanics).

 

[HOUSE]

Jon Gruden

 

 "He's got a strong arm, he's smart, and played at Pitt [Pittsburgh]. He definitely looked like NFL material."