TNF: Texans at Bengals

[GunnerBill]

And 2 OCs that became head coaches. And good OL.

 

And 2 safeties, a couple of defensive linemen and a linebacker.

 

Basically the Bengals have missed their window. The 2013-15 teams were pretty loaded and 2015 was the year they were really ready to make the run until Dalton's injury. There are a lot of weak spots on that roster now and their drafting these past 3 or 4 years hasn't been good enough. The two turnstiles playing at offensive tackle through two weeks of this season are their 1st and 2nd round picks from 2015 just as one example.

[Fan in Chicago]

Didnt read this entire thread but I am sure many of you have asked what I have been pondering - how many years more does Marvin Lewis get ?

[GunnerBill]

Didnt read this entire thread but I am sure many of you have asked what I have been pondering - how many years more does Marvin Lewis get ?

 

This is the end. They are gonna go 4-12/5-11 and he will be gone.

[hemma]

They sure look beatable.

 

Game 5 @ Cinci.

[Mat68]

At his worst Watson can do everything Savage can do. My problem with whole situation it was apparent after 1 preseason game. Idk if O'brien was worried because of the oline or thought a playoff caliber defense would revolt with a rookie qb. If Savage was only givwn a half the chamge should have been made weeks ago. Imo O'brien is done. For whatever reseason he had to sit Watson it seems to me the decision to play him came from someone above him. Basicly, if you dont win and soon your out.

[nucci]

I'm going to be controversial and say I really didn't mind that game. I woke up for the start and then stayed awake the whole way through. I am a bit old school and enjoy some defense and there was some really good defensive play to admire. The offensive line play on both sides was ugly, each team basically has a #1 WR and almost nothing else on offense and the Quarterbacks were both limited to say the least in the passing game. But I don't think it was as terrible as everyone else seems to.

16 punts, 16 accepted penalties and 1 TD......it was as terrible as many are saying

[GunnerBill]

16 punts, 16 accepted penalties and 1 TD......it was as terrible as many are saying

 

A lot of punts just means the defenses were on top..... there was some brilliant play up front from both defenses and some bad play upfront by both offenses. I'd rather focus on some of the good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Your ypa numbers are wrong and those are dumb questions

 

You're correct on the YPA. It was late. You're extra on the dumb questions comment, but I'm sure you did your best.

 

I'll try to make it more basic: one of those QB passed for more yards. one of those QB lost. same QB.

I think he did ypc

 

You are right and the same point remains: many here "go off" about Taylor "sucking" because he doesn't pass enough. The QB that passed the most, for the most yards in that game....lost.

Passing yards are not tightly correlated to winning

Edited September 15, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Seasons1992]

 

This is the end. They are gonna go 4-12/5-11 and he will be gone.

I believe this also.

The fans here in Cincy are mailing in this season already and planning weekends away from the game already.

 

The October 8 game will be VERY blue and white in the stands. We will have the run of the place.

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Seasons1992

[nucci]

 

A lot of punts just means the defenses were on top..... there was some brilliant play up front from both defenses and some bad play upfront by both offenses. I'd rather focus on some of the good.

I get it....not completely disagreeing with you but there is some very poor QB play in this league

[Hapless Bills Fan]

He lost Sanu & Jones

 

Looking at their numbers in 2015, really doesn't seem like they should make that much difference. Sanu in particular was 5th in receptions in 2015. Jones made more of a contribution.

 

Dalton did manage to pass for 4200 yds last year without them and go to the Pro Bowl without them. I'm kind of thinking that losing Eifert much of last year made more difference (he's the big red zone target, and TD production is where they fell off?).

[eball]

If either of those teams win more than 5 games this season I'll be shocked.

[nucci]

 

Looking at their numbers in 2015, really doesn't seem like they should make that much difference. Sanu in particular was 5th in receptions in 2015. Jones made more of a contribution.

 

Dalton did manage to pass for 4200 yds last year without them and go to the Pro Bowl without them. I'm kind of thinking that losing Eifert much of last year made more difference (he's the big red zone target, and TD production is where they fell off?).

It also seems that many teams do not have good O-Lines.....again I know it's early but just seems that way to me...Bills may have one of the few decent ones

[KDIGGZ]

that game last night was like what you see on the field in the 4th quarter of the 4th preseason game. absolutely brutal

[Hapless Bills Fan]

And 2 OCs that became head coaches. And good OL.

 

I hadn't looked at this year's OL. Knew they only lost the RT last year and the other 4 guys were intact, but this year they've got that meh RT playing LT?

OL can make a yuge difference to how a QB looks, who knew?

It also seems that many teams do not have good O-Lines.....again I know it's early but just seems that way to me...Bills may have one of the few decent ones

 

After C.Bisquit pointed it out and I looked at that personnel, yeah. I think this may have been the "which OL sucks worse?" bowl

Edited September 15, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[GunnerBill]

If either of those teams win more than 5 games this season I'll be shocked.

 

The Texans will get better. As Watson settles in, they get Duane Brown back, probably get Barnidge in as a viable TE..... it really was a patchwork offense last night. They only dressed 3 receivers and 1 TE! They win between 7 and 9 again for me so long as that D continues to show up and play as it did last night.

 

The Bengals no way win more than 5.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

And 2 safeties, a couple of defensive linemen and a linebacker.

 

Basically the Bengals have missed their window. The 2013-15 teams were pretty loaded and 2015 was the year they were really ready to make the run until Dalton's injury. There are a lot of weak spots on that roster now and their drafting these past 3 or 4 years hasn't been good enough. The two turnstiles playing at offensive tackle through two weeks of this season are their 1st and 2nd round picks from 2015 just as one example.

 

I was focused on what have they lost on the D side of the ball myself, but yeah, in addition to losing a couple steps on the D now I'm thinking their OL sucks and Hue Jackson >>> Ken Zampese

[Blokestradamus]

Yikes.

 

@Pat_Thorman

#Bengals OT Jake Fisher gave up more QB pressures last night (6) than ex-Bengals OT Andrew Whitworth gave up in the first 7 games last year.

[HappyDays]

 

The Texans will get better. As Watson settles in, they get Duane Brown back, probably get Barnidge in as a viable TE..... it really was a patchwork offense last night. They only dressed 3 receivers and 1 TE! They win between 7 and 9 again for me so long as that D continues to show up and play as it did last night.

 

The Bengals no way win more than 5.

The Texans offense couldn't score points on what might be the worst defense in the league. There is no guarantee that Watson "settles in." More likely is that defenses will key in on his runs and force him to beat them with his arm. His ball placement is off on almost every single throw. They don't have an offensive line or a run game. Whatever games Houston wins this year, it's going to look exactly like yesterday. Lots of punts and field goals until they happen to come out on top.

[billsfan_34]

Deshaun may not be your prototypical QB but he is a gamer. As a coach you want that and it rallies the troops.

 

He has moxie and leadership and a pretty crisp delivery and he seems like a good guy

Plays tough, good runner, has to learn to read defenses and go through his progressions. He is a long way off and teams will contain him until he grows into the NFL game, which I think he will!

[PromoTheRobot]

 

The Texans will get better. As Watson settles in, they get Duane Brown back, probably get Barnidge in as a viable TE..... it really was a patchwork offense last night. They only dressed 3 receivers and 1 TE! They win between 7 and 9 again for me so long as that D continues to show up and play as it did last night.

 

The Bengals no way win more than 5.

Did Watson throw over the middle? Did he find his wide receivers? Was he too eager to run?

[Sherlock Holmes]

There were 2 posters on this board that advocated for Watt at 3

I was on BBMB doing the same lol

[BringBackOrton]

Did Watson throw over the middle? Did he find his wide receivers? Was he too eager to run?

Did Deandre Hopkins get more targets than all of the Bills WR's last week?

[thebandit27]

I was on BBMB doing the same lol

 

Don't get me wrong, nobody was in here pounding the table for the guy, but a few folks were convinced that he was the best down lineman in that class, and was worthy of the #3 overall pick.

 

Geez...apparently I had a good feel for the 2011 class:

 

https://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/127671-when-the-bills-were-on-the-clock-who-did-you-want-the-last-few-years/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2136589

 

Better celebrate; that **** doesn't happen often

Edited September 15, 2017 by thebandit27

[Chuck Wagon]

I really wish we would have traded with the Texans instead of the Chiefs in last years draft.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If either of those teams win more than 5 games this season I'll be shocked.

 

Bengals are just looking bad.

 

Texans, O'Brien prides himself on his genius making it happen with anyone behind center. So you never know. For the Texans, it's really going to depend on whether the Jaguars and Titans take a step because in the O'Brien era, they've been going 9-7 and making playoffs off a weak division. The Colts are looking like a hot mess themselves right now. Oakland may be all that and a bag of chips or they may take a step back. I didn't think their D looked that great.

Fournette may be "all that" for the Jags and combined with a stout D may get it done - but they actually gave up a lot of first downs to that putrescent Houston offense. On the other hand, looking at their schedule - we may have to wait until Week 5 or later to see if they're legit.

 

Bottom line, I don't think O'Brien can count on a weak division to help him so much any more. I'm surprised he's lasted this long; any takers for next season? But it wouldn't surprise me if he managed to carve out 8 wins.

I was on BBMB doing the same lol

 

I can't say I advocated because I don't follow college football that much, but I was sharing a cubby with a Wisconsin fan at the time and I thought Watt looked like a beast. I would have been happy with drafting him at 3.

[Chuck Wagon]

Opening night Thursday and Thanksgiving.

 

That should be it for Thursday games. THAT'S IT.

 

The players hate it and the ratings reflect how bad this Thursday night thing is.

 

 

I like Thursday night football, but they need to do a MUCH better job of handling it. It's ridiculous to ask these players to play again after 3 days off. Teams playing on Thursday nights should be coming off a bye the week before and Thursday night should basically allow them to have ~10 days off before and ~10 days off after. I realize weeks 2-4 it would be impossible to do this, but you would see a dramatic improvement in the quality of play and in the ratings if these games were handled that way.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Don't get me wrong, nobody was in here pounding the table for the guy, but a few folks were convinced that he was the best down lineman in that class, and was worthy of the #3 overall pick.

 

Geez...apparently I had a good feel for the 2011 class:

 

https://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/127671-when-the-bills-were-on-the-clock-who-did-you-want-the-last-few-years/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2136589

 

Better celebrate; that **** doesn't happen often

There have been two guys I have pounded as hard as I can for. Watt and Kuechly lol. Looks like you also have a keen eye for talent sir.

[Chuck Wagon]

 

 

I like Thursday night football, but they need to do a MUCH better job of handling it. It's ridiculous to ask these players to play again after 3 days off. Teams playing on Thursday nights should be coming off a bye the week before and Thursday night should basically allow them to have ~10 days off before and ~10 days off after. I realize weeks 2-4 it would be impossible to do this, but you would see a dramatic improvement in the quality of play and in the ratings if these games were handled that way.

 

 

Thinking about it further, the league shouldn't play Thursday night games between weeks 2 - 4. It wasn't that long ago (ok, maybe it was by this point) that you used to have quality college football games on Thursday nights. Weeks 2-4 the league should back off and let college shine again on Thursday nights, instead of giving us Boise St. vs New Mexico. Then starting week 5 have Thursday night / Thanksgiving for teams exclusively coming off bye weeks, adding in the opening game, that gives you 15 Thursday night games, if you use teams exclusively coming off bye weeks, Thursday nights would be something players enjoy instead of dread, giving equal time to recover before and after the mid week game and giving back to back long weeks during the middle of the season.

[TFBillsfan]

Add Cinncy to the list who will be looking for a QB that should finish worse than us. Jets, AZ, ,Cinncy, Jags, Denver, San Fran, Redskins are all teams we will be fighting against to potentially move up.

[thebandit27]

There have been two guys I have pounded as hard as I can for. Watt and Kuechly lol.

 

Phrasing dude; phrasing

 

 

Looks like you also have a keen eye for talent sir.

 

I have my moments. I actually tend to scout LBs better than any other position; for some reason I have a really good feel for them. I can regularly identify Day 3 LBs that end up starting as rookies; for example: I was all over DeVondre Campbell and Elandon Roberts).

 

So yeah, even a blind squirrel, ya know?

[Augie]

Bungles fans are in deep despair this morning. I offered some hard earned perspective. I don't think it was very welcome.

[SoTier]

What happened to Dalton? Wasnt he an MVP candidate a year or two ago? In terms of our game for week 3 it definitely looks good for us - a TON better then these weeks 2-3 looked on paper 6 months ago!

 

Three time Pro Bowl LT Andrew Whitworth is now helping Jared Goff look like a pro QB in Los Angeles and RG Kevin Zeitler is now protecting Deshon Kizer in Cleveland. That's what happened to Andy Dalton ... that's exactly the same thing that happened to Drew Bledsoe in Buffalo. A crappy OL can bring down any QB.

 

I'm going to be controversial and say I really didn't mind that game. I woke up for the start and then stayed awake the whole way through. I am a bit old school and enjoy some defense and there was some really good defensive play to admire. The offensive line play on both sides was ugly, each team basically has a #1 WR and almost nothing else on offense and the Quarterbacks were both limited to say the least in the passing game. But I don't think it was as terrible as everyone else seems to.

^^^

 

A lot of punts just means the defenses were on top..... there was some brilliant play up front from both defenses and some bad play upfront by both offenses. I'd rather focus on some of the good.

 

C'mon, Bill!!! That wasn't great defense ... it was simply terrible offense. Neither Houston nor Cinci has a decent OL, and it showed. It was reminiscent of the gem that the Bills and Browns played in October 2009 where the Bills lost 6-3 at home.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Bungles fans are in deep despair this morning. I offered some hard earned perspective. I don't think it was very welcome.

 

[nucci]

Add Cinncy to the list who will be looking for a QB that should finish worse than us. Jets, AZ, ,Cinncy, Jags, Denver, San Fran, Redskins are all teams we will be fighting against to potentially move up.

Don't they have McCarron?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

A lot of punts just means the defenses were on top..... there was some brilliant play up front from both defenses and some bad play upfront by both offenses. I'd rather focus on some of the good.

 

Just curious, how do you decide the D has played brilliantly if the offense they're defending just sucks?

 

The Texans offense couldn't score points on what might be the worst defense in the league. There is no guarantee that Watson "settles in." More likely is that defenses will key in on his runs and force him to beat them with his arm. His ball placement is off on almost every single throw. They don't have an offensive line or a run game. Whatever games Houston wins this year, it's going to look exactly like yesterday. Lots of punts and field goals until they happen to come out on top.

 

I don't think you can count the Bengals as "the worst defense in the league". I'm not saying they're good, but they appear to have a lot of competition for that slot.

[thebandit27]

 

Three time Pro Bowl LT Andrew Whitworth is now helping Jared Goff look like a pro QB in Los Angeles and RG Kevin Zeitler is now protecting Deshon Kizer in Cleveland. That's what happened to Andy Dalton ... that's exactly the same thing that happened to Drew Bledsoe in Buffalo. A crappy OL can bring down any QB.

 

 

 

The OL started to fail them last year. You'd like to think that they were prepared, considering that they drafted Ogbuehi and Fisher in the first 2 rounds in 2015, and sprinkled both into their offense in the last 2 years to get them reps...didn't work out that way (or at least in hasn't yet)

[GunnerBill]

Did Watson throw over the middle? Did he find his wide receivers? Was he too eager to run?

 

He didn't throw over the middle enough.

The Texans offense couldn't score points on what might be the worst defense in the league. There is no guarantee that Watson "settles in." More likely is that defenses will key in on his runs and force him to beat them with his arm. His ball placement is off on almost every single throw. They don't have an offensive line or a run game. Whatever games Houston wins this year, it's going to look exactly like yesterday. Lots of punts and field goals until they happen to come out on top.

 

Of course there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee of anything. I believe Houston will end up a game either side of .500 and their offense will get better. I didn't guarantee it, I gave my opinion.

[HappyDays]

The Bengals were the first team since the 1939 (not a typo) Philadelphia Eagles to have their first 2 games at home and not score a single TD.

[Chuck Wagon]

Don't they have McCarron?

 

 

Yes.

 

That'll be a "what if" if they sold high on Dalton for a handful of draft picks instead of paying him, played McCarron and used the savings to keep Whitworth and Zeitler.