Shaq Lawson

[yungmack]

Can't really give Whaley any credit. Lawson was by far the highest rated player on the board when we picked. He only fell that far due to the shoulder.

 

Of course not. Your lane is blame Whaley.

[CommonCents]

I dont know if I should bother to point out just how wrong this post is.....

 

naaaaa

 

I just think you have to look at production over a collection of games.....

 

Last year? I throw that out and dont even count it

You don't play well with others JFH.

You don't know football either.

 

Why has Shaq all but abandoned his patented spin move that he posterized Stanley with? Probably because his coaches realize he isn't going to out quick anyone or confuse anyone with "speed to power". He is a bull, often the last bull out of the pen.

 

Stop being so aggressive towards other posters, your takes are wrong so frequently that you don't even walk them back. Be civil. Have fun. Go Bills.

[BringBackOrton]

I dont know if I should bother to point out just how wrong this post is.....

 

naaaaa

 

I just think you have to look at production over a collection of games.....

 

Last year? I throw that out and dont even count it

I don't care what you count it. He played last year.

[boyst]

I dont know if I should bother to point out just how wrong this post is.....

 

naaaaa

 

I just think you have to look at production over a collection of games.....

 

Last year? I throw that out and dont even count it

ok, so at what point can we begin to form an opinion on a player?

 

Let's go back to 2010. Still waiting on permission for CJ Spiller

[3rdand12]

You don't play well with others JFH.

You don't know football either.

 

Why has Shaq all but abandoned his patented spin move that he posterized Stanley with? Probably because his coaches realize he isn't going to out quick anyone or confuse anyone with "speed to power". He is a bull, often the last bull out of the pen.

 

Stop being so aggressive towards other posters, your takes are wrong so frequently that you don't even walk them back. Be civil. Have fun. Go Bills.

I have trouble seeing the negative posts on Shaq so soon.

He is a Bills player.

 

some of us are just shtty fans really. overly aggressive when critiquing our own players.

I really don t get that.

Lawson played last year just to get get some NFL snaps. At Linebacker, on case some have forgotten he was badly miscast by rex ( whom ruined everything ).

I can toss out last year as well. Easily.

 

Fresh start for the Kid.

He played well last week.Go Bills !

ok, so at what point can we begin to form an opinion on a player?

 

Let's go back to 2010. Still waiting on permission for CJ Spiller

opinions are always evolving? I hope so, as the world turns and seasons change.

 

if you need permission to bash Spiller as a wasted poor pick by Whaley? Have at it. it's a fair take. Wish you had purged earlier. When the Colon gets inflamed sht gets crappy. Be nicer to your self J.

Probiotics and a cleansing now and again do wonders for the soul

[Meark]

We played a Jets team that is clearly tanking the season. Let's wait until week 5 before throwing out numbers.

I thought we were tanking the season?

[Wayne Arnold]

I don't care what you count it. He played last year.

 

So Shaq is a bust after last season? A season in a Ryan scheme where the defense was near the bottom of the NFL in sacks? Where even Hughes couldn't get to the quarterback?

 

I didn't even know this was a take from last season. Interesting.

[nedboy7]

Such riveting arguments.

[Bill Murray]

Such riveting arguments.

Yea seriously. We are 1-0. Our defense was dominant against the run, which made the opponent play one dimensional football. If we played like that every week we will be in decent shape. Everyone relax with the hot takes.

[Passepartout]

One down, 15 more to go in 2017! Just hope they can build on their performance.

[JerseyBills]

one game or not, he hasn't shown much to what people want and expect. He hasn't shown growth or development either

First NFL training camp in his first game as a 43 DE and he was a force in the run game. I guarantee Frazier and DL coach are estatic with his play lol and you're here labeling him a washed up bum with no potential. Smh

[John from Riverside]

You don't play well with others JFH.

You don't know football either.

 

Why has Shaq all but abandoned his patented spin move that he posterized Stanley with? Probably because his coaches realize he isn't going to out quick anyone or confuse anyone with "speed to power". He is a bull, often the last bull out of the pen.

 

Stop being so aggressive towards other posters, your takes are wrong so frequently that you don't even walk them back. Be civil. Have fun. Go Bills.

LOL....i just have to LOL at this

 

You have a nice day sir

[GunnerBill]

 

So Shaq is a bust after last season? A season in a Ryan scheme where the defense was near the bottom of the NFL in sacks? Where even Hughes couldn't get to the quarterback?

 

I didn't even know this was a take from last season. Interesting.

Here is an interesting stat.... in the last 11 NFL games the Bills have played Shaq Lawson has as many sacks as Jerry Hughes. They both have 2. So I do think there is something to your point Wayne. The scheme wasn't producing sacks down the stretch last year.

[atlbillsfan1975]

You don't play well with others JFH.

You don't know football either.

 

Why has Shaq all but abandoned his patented spin move that he posterized Stanley with? Probably because his coaches realize he isn't going to out quick anyone or confuse anyone with "speed to power". He is a bull, often the last bull out of the pen.

 

Stop being so aggressive towards other posters, your takes are wrong so frequently that you don't even walk them back. Be civil. Have fun. Go Bills.

This smacks of passive aggressiveness.

I don't know John from Adam's house cat, but I have read enough of his posts to know he understands football. John is an optimist about Bills players. Honestly, shouldn't we all be as Bills fans? What joy is taken from wanting a player to not be good ? Is it so a poster can say ' I know something about football'? I have been guilty of this in the past.

 

As for Shaq, it is far to early to tell. Beasley in Atl had a less than stellar rookie season. The coaching staff moved his position for his second season and he led the league in sacks. Players do get better and develop. Coaching helps with this a ton. Look at our own Lorax! Positive thinking is really something we need more of. Any of you claiming to emphatically know anything about Lawson are just speculating with hopes of being able to say 'see I told you'. i would rather be able to watch one of my teams players turn out to be good. This is entertainment, what not watch it for the happy ending? We are due that.

Edited September 16, 2017 by atlbillsfan1975

[Coach Tuesday]

Here is an interesting stat.... in the last 11 NFL games the Bills have played Shaq Lawson has as many sacks as Jerry Hughes. They both have 2. So I do think there is something to your point Wayne. The scheme wasn't producing sacks down the stretch last year.

 

But what are their respective pressure numbers? That's really what matters, not sacks. Rex Ryan's defense (or whatever you can call the monstrosity he brought to Buffalo) wasn't about sacks, it was about pressure and confusion (it was supposed to confuse the offense, ironically).

Edited September 16, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[BuffAlone]

k. What's your take?

My take is that he was an elite edge setter who got his share of sacks in college. At the very least, he should duplicate that in the pros. The injury and scheme change hindered him slightly in year one, but he was drafted at 19 overall. I think for his skill set, his floor is what he was in Clemson. And by all accounts the new staff likes what he is and what he does. Can he improve his pass rush? No doubt. Will he? Depends on what he's asked to do. I certainly think as it stands right now, he's worth #19 pick...with potential to grow as a pass rusher. Just my take. He's not lightning quick or twitchy, but has great hand usage and bullrush moves. He'll only get better as he grows and wisens up to the pro game. Again, just my take Edited September 16, 2017 by BuffAlone

[BringBackOrton]

 

So Shaq is a bust after last season? A season in a Ryan scheme where the defense was near the bottom of the NFL in sacks? Where even Hughes couldn't get to the quarterback?

 

I didn't even know this was a take from last season. Interesting.

 

 

Selective memory where Hughes' first 5 or so games were some of the best in his career?

[GunnerBill]

 

But what are their respective pressure numbers? That's really what matters, not sacks. Rex Ryan's defense (or whatever you can call the monstrosity he brought to Buffalo) wasn't about sacks, it was about pressure and confusion (it was supposed to confuse the offense, ironically).

 

Appearing in 10 games and getting over 50% of the snaps in just 2 Shaq got 12 pressures in 2017 (in addition to 2 sacks). Jerry got 29 in 16 games (in addition to 6 sacks) but I don't have a breakdown of how many of those came early in the year. I suspect a large %. Now personally I still believe that you have to turn those pressures into sacks. If Shaq was 2/14 pressure opportunities and Jerry was 6/35 pressure opportunities that suggests he wasn't as unproductive as some have suggested.

 

I won't be here at the end of this year arguing Shaq should get the benefit of the doubt for only ending up with let's say 4 sacks because he got say 20 pressures. If Shaq plays 16 games he needs to be right around that benchmark of 8. If he gets 6 or 7 I think the jury will still be out to an extent but then 2018 will be sink or swim in terms of justifying his draft slot.

[Wayne Arnold]

 

But what are their respective pressure numbers? That's really what matters, not sacks. Rex Ryan's defense (or whatever you can call the monstrosity he brought to Buffalo) wasn't about sacks, it was about pressure and confusion (it was supposed to confuse the offense, ironically).

 

The more pressure you have, the more sacks you're going to have. It goes hand in hand. It's not as if Rex told the players "when you get close to the quarterback, stop before you sack him". Come on, now.

Selective memory where Hughes' first 5 or so games were some of the best in his career?

 

If only the NFL were a five-game season.

[BringBackOrton]

 

The more pressure you have, the more sacks you're going to have. It goes hand in hand. It's not as if Rex told the players "when you get close to the quarterback, stop before you sack him". Come on, now.

 

 

If only the NFL were a five-game season.

If it were a 5 game season, Shaq would still have done next to nothing in the NFL.

[Wayne Arnold]

If it were a 5 game season, Shaq would still have done next to nothing in the NFL.

 

K bye

[BADOLBILZ]

Here is an interesting stat.... in the last 11 NFL games the Bills have played Shaq Lawson has as many sacks as Jerry Hughes. They both have 2. So I do think there is something to your point Wayne. The scheme wasn't producing sacks down the stretch last year.

 

 

Here is an interesting fact ..........Shaq comes off the field on passing downs for an undrafted free agent and a guy who was cut by a team in the Canadian Football League last season.

 

I kid but just like we know that Lorax and EY are better than their path to the team indicates we know that the eyeball test and common sense tells us that Hughes is a much better pass rusher.

 

He plays against better blockers, draws more attention and was playing hurt the second half of last year........while Shaq got to come in fresh as a daisy 7 weeks into the season, stunk up the joint and had his snaps cut dramatically at the end despite a need for re-inforcements because he was just playing very poorly.

 

I think Lorax only has about 2 sacks in that time as well......he got injured and worn out playing every snap on D and ST last year too.......but seemingly every time he rushes the passer he still pushes the pocket and pressures the passer..........Shaq doesn't put consistent pressure on OT's and subsequently rarely pressures a QB.

 

Maybe that will change........but I think the Terrell Suggs comparisons we saw might have been a bit off-base.

 

K bye

 

 

Bad thread for you.

 

Exposed your lack of understanding of even mid-level intricacies of the game.

 

Stick to the general sarcasm and mediocre gifs.

[boyst]

My take is that he was an elite edge setter who got his share of sacks in college. At the very least, he should duplicate that in the pros. The injury and scheme change hindered him slightly in year one, but he was drafted at 19 overall. I think for his skill set, his floor is what he was in Clemson. And by all accounts the new staff likes what he is and what he does. Can he improve his pass rush? No doubt. Will he? Depends on what he's asked to do. I certainly think as it stands right now, he's worth #19 pick...with potential to grow as a pass rusher. Just my take. He's not lightning quick or twitchy, but has great hand usage and bullrush moves. He'll only get better as he grows and wisens up to the pro game. Again, just my take

so, i won't disagree but we have seen nothing to show he is improving his game just yet. he has not had much time to do so

but, to the trained eye we have not seen him look to be able to develop those skills.

 

i liken him to chris kelsey in his ceiling.

First NFL training camp in his first game as a 43 DE and he was a force in the run game. I guarantee Frazier and DL coach are estatic with his play lol and you're here labeling him a washed up bum with no potential. Smh

no, no i'm not.

 

i'm labeling him as someone who i cannot recognize the talent in to have justified a 1st round pick. i know he is good and above average at his strengths but also see his weaknesses too easily. i think he could have a long career - 10 years+ but never truly live up to a first round pick.

 

he has a long way to go and a lot to develop.

[GunnerBill]

 

I kid but just like we know that Lorax and EY are better than their path to the team indicates we know that the eyeball test and common sense tells us that Hughes is a much better pass rusher.

Come on Badol you know me better than to think I am arguing for Shaq based on his draft position.

 

I will happily take your ribbing if I am wrong. I am not too proud.

[NoSaint]

 

The more pressure you have, the more sacks you're going to have. It goes hand in hand. It's not as if Rex told the players "when you get close to the quarterback, stop before you sack him". Come on, now.

 

 

If only the NFL were a five-game season.

As a general guide - sure. Though there are outliers. See our own Lorenzo Alexander who got sacks on an obscene percentage of his pressures. He was high sacks but low pressure

[DefenseWins]

I don't place too much emphasis on anything we have seen yet on most any of these players on the roster... Like it or not we are in the midst of a classic REBUILD. There will be alot more roster changes on this team by next season and the season after that. Call it a purge if you will. It's not a particularly young roster to begin with and this team is building for the future. Wouldn't be surprised for example if Dareus is gone in two years - or less... Shady is not getting any younger though he is still incredible to watch play... A new QB in next years draft... Lots of changes coming...

 

Let's see how Lawson and all these players develop this season...

[GunnerBill]

As a general guide - sure. Though there are outliers. See our own Lorenzo Alexander who got sacks on an obscene percentage of his pressures. He was high sacks but low pressure

Correct. Pressures are important but converting is too.

[BADOLBILZ]

Come on Badol you know me better than to think I am arguing for Shaq based on his draft position.

 

I will happily take your ribbing if I am wrong. I am not too proud.

 

 

I was just pointing out that both cases are basically cherry picking a stat/fact to support an argument you know is invalid.........that Lawson has rushed the passer as well as Hughes or that Shaq is huge disappointment simply because he can't keep an aged UDFA and a CFL reject off the field on 3rd downs.

 

FWIW Shaq is clearly a better player this year.........but last year he was really poor. His play in that Pittsburgh game was horrendous and that's what got him basically benched for the rest of the season.

[NoSaint]

Correct. Pressures are important but converting is too.

Yup. For bar napkin math and fan talk sacks tend to be a fine enough stat. If really hashing it out you have to look deeper. I'm not sure what ratio I trade those at in the talk but it's a discussion (prefer 10 sacks on 50 pressures or 8 on 60 pressures for a season?). I'm sure there's analytics out there on average outcomes of both plays in order to draw equivalents though.

[JerseyBills]

so, i won't disagree but we have seen nothing to show he is improving his game just yet. he has not had much time to do so

but, to the trained eye we have not seen him look to be able to develop those skills.

 

i liken him to chris kelsey in his ceiling.

 

no, no i'm not.

 

i'm labeling him as someone who i cannot recognize the talent in to have justified a 1st round pick. i know he is good and above average at his strengths but also see his weaknesses too easily. i think he could have a long career - 10 years+ but never truly live up to a first round pick.

 

he has a long way to go and a lot to develop.

Even though I disagree about his ceiling, I respect this opinion

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Bad thread for you.

 

Exposed your lack of understanding of even mid-level intricacies of the game.

 

Stick to the general sarcasm and mediocre gifs.

 

"Shaq is a bust because I said so" displays a much better understanding of the game.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

I was just pointing out that both cases are basically cherry picking a stat/fact to support an argument you know is invalid.........that Lawson has rushed the passer as well as Hughes or that Shaq is huge disappointment simply because he can't keep an aged UDFA and a CFL reject off the field on 3rd downs.

 

FWIW Shaq is clearly a better player this year.........but last year he was really poor. His play in that Pittsburgh game was horrendous and that's what got him basically benched for the rest of the season.

You know I like you Badol. Right (and you often are) or wrong. You always try and argue your point. It is what the board should be.

[Wayne Arnold]

You know I like you Badol. Right (and you often are) or wrong. You always try and argue your point. It is what the board should be.

 

Get a room.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Of course not. Your lane is blame Whaley.

 

...Whaley was blamed for drafting a wounded duck if I remember right.....so now if the kid succeeds, no way in hell Whaley should get a milligram of credit...nothing but luck.........

Edited September 16, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[GunnerBill]

 

Get a room.

Haha. I think he is wrong on Shaq. And I remind Badol when he is wrong too. He didn't like the Schwartz hire.....

[Wayne Arnold]

Haha. I think he is wrong on Shaq. And I remind Badol when he is wrong too. He didn't like the Schwartz hire.....

 

Had no idea who this BADOL poster was before this thread but needless to say I'm not impressed. And I don't even necessarily disagree with him about Shaq, I just depend on real evidence for my views which he seems either incapable of sharing or too lazy and/or arrogant to do so.

[boyst]

Even though I disagree about his ceiling, I respect this opinion

the one thing I do like about them to your credit and what you're saying is his footwork. He seldom is in the wrong place with his footwork and balance it's just he doesn't have what it takes to be quick enough to get there. he relies upon his strength and his ability to effectively b an anchor

[Guest NeckBeard]

 

Had no idea who this BADOL poster was before this thread but needless to say I'm not impressed. And I don't even necessarily disagree with him about Shaq, I just depend on real evidence for my views which he seems either incapable of sharing or too lazy and/or arrogant to do so.

 

Your hypocrisy is stunning, and I think you need to review your recent postings before making the claim that you rely on real evidence for your views. You post good stuff every now and again, but your will to tear other posters down (using words like clueless, or to suggest that others get a clue, or that your views are somehow intellectually superior to those who have different takes than you), or to post animated gifs as barbs, or to have the audacity to claim that others are treating you badly -- are all evidence that you're just another dude, just like the rest of us, who posts on a message board.

[3rdand12]

Correct. Pressures are important but converting is too.

when you can definitively relate correlate an incomplete, drop or pass break up, or better yet a turnover from the pressure you would know the best answer perhaps. The sack is the better outcome.

Watching games, re-watching games defines this feature Much better than any statistical evidence.

I would pick pressures much over Great Zone coverage for the fun feature as a Fan watching for sure

[John from Riverside]

You know I like you Badol. Right (and you often are) or wrong. You always try and argue your point. It is what the board should be.

Frankly over the course of time Bado has grown a bit on me to.....dont always agree but def respect his takes.

 

In this particular instance I just think we have to wait and see what a full season looks like before passing judgement......

 

Pressures are more important then sacks

Sack tend to come in bunches and EVERY good edge you see in the NFL pads his stats against bad OT's at some point in a season

This is essentially Lawson's rookie year

 

I dont have a problem with the crit on him......just I think its too early to pass judgement on who he is as a player.