Bills "can't wait to unleash Tyrod Taylor"

[Magox]

It's not the be-all-end-all stat that paints the entire picture but it certainly isn't a meaningless one either. It is yet another metric that can helps teams prepare for their opponents offense and to help offenses/QB's diagnose if they are making their reads quick enough. It should be treated like most other stats, just another metric that helps paint a picture.

[thebandit27]

Amendola played and had 6 catches for 100 yards on 7 targets vs the Chiefs last Thursday.

 

Right, and they had the lead when he left with a concussion in the 3rd quarter...after which time they were outscored 21-3.

[NewMexBills]

I thought it was encouraging to see TYGOD play well after coming off concussion & having minimal time with new receivers, yes it was against the Jets but still positive in the most part & gives me a little more hope this season may NOT turn into a huge mess! Lets just see on the road against a more quality opponent. LETS WIN

[reddogblitz]

and only has 1 season with Hogan.

Didn't seem to slow him up much last year.

[thebandit27]

Didn't seem to slow him up much last year.

 

I would suspect that had as much to do with having all of Edelman, Amendola, Malcolm Mitchell, and Martellus Bennett on the field as well.

 

Right now, Brady is down to Hogan, Cooks, Dwayne Allen, and a bunch of question marks. If Amendola comes back healthy and Gronk can regain his form from the days of yore (as opposed to looking old and slow like he did in week 1), then I suspect you'll see the passing game pick up right where they left off in 2016.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think maybe TT can't throw to TEs can now be officially debunked. Since week 14 of last year, Charles Clay has more TDs than anyone in the league. And he dropped one last week.

 

https://twitter.com/buffalobillspr/status/908345335935913990

[JohnBonhamRocks]

I think maybe TT can't throw to TEs can now be officially debunked. Since week 14 of last year, Charles Clay has more TDs than anyone in the league. And he dropped one last week.

 

https://twitter.com/buffalobillspr/status/908345335935913990

 

I'd like to hear KellytheDog's unique perspective on "unleashing"

[BringBackOrton]

I think maybe TT can't throw to TEs can now be officially debunked. Since week 14 of last year, Charles Clay has more TDs than anyone in the league. And he dropped one last week.

 

https://twitter.com/buffalobillspr/status/908345335935913990

Since Charles Clay's last TD, he has tied for the most TD's scored by any Bill not named Tyrod in history.

 

Weird stats.

Edited September 14, 2017 by jmc12290

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I'd like to hear KellytheDog's unique perspective on "unleashing"

I think that for the most part McD and Rico had the child leash still on TT last week, knowing the Jets couldn't score, TT was coming off his bumpusofthenogginous, hadn't thrown much to top three hideouts in camp much, etc.

 

This week they will probably give him a little more rope but not really unleash him.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Kelly the Dog

[Bangarang]

I think that for the most part McD and Rico had the child leash still on TT last week, knowing the Jets couldn't score, TT was coming off his bumpusofthenogginous, hadn't thrown much to top three hideouts in camp much, etc.

 

This week they will probably give him a little more rope but not really unleash him.

I think the notion of McD holding things back whether it's on offense or defense simply because we played the Jets is ridiculous.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the notion of McD holding things back whether it's on offense or defense simply because we played the Jets is ridiculous.

We clearly did not try to take chances on offense. Did not throw outside. Did not look downfield. Extremely conservative offense and play calling. The game plan is to win. The Jets have literally no skill players. The game played out exactly as most expected it to so there was no reason to open it up more. I think that's almost inarguable.

[Bangarang]

We clearly did not try to take chances on offense. Did not throw outside. Did not look downfield. Extremely conservative offense and play calling. The game plan is to win. The Jets have literally no skill players. The game played out exactly as most expected it to so there was no reason to open it up more. I think that's almost inarguable.

We ran the ball at will and once we got ahead things got vanilla to try and kill clock. I don't think the idea going into the game was to hold things back. If that wasn't your point then that's my mistake.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

We clearly did not try to take chances on offense. Did not throw outside. Did not look downfield. Extremely conservative offense and play calling. The game plan is to win. The Jets have literally no skill players. The game played out exactly as most expected it to so there was no reason to open it up more. I think that's almost inarguable.

 

....add up all of the NEWNESS from FO to Administration to personnel gurus to coaching staff to schemes to players coupled with this being GAME ONE against a FORMIDABLE opponent (?)......anybody expecting Air Coryell?.....

Edited September 14, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Kelly the Dog]

We ran the ball at will and once we got ahead things got vanilla to try and kill clock. I don't think the idea going into the game was to hold things back. If that wasn't your point then that's my mistake.

There is not much difference between holding things back and playing extremely conservative. McCoy even said after the game they had a bunch of plays designed to throw to him out of the backfield they practiced for the game and then didn't use. They didn't roll out, bootleg or design run Tyrod hardly at all. Or throw deep. Those are his strengths. They held back because the game wasn't ever much in doubt regardless of the score.

 

....add up all of the NEWNESS from FO to Administration to personnel gurus to coaching staff to schemes to players coupled with this being GAME ONE against a FORMIDABLE opponent (?)......anybody expecting Air Coryell?.....

I didn't criticize the strategy at all. It worked. But you're right, that was another reason WHY they held him back.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

There is not much difference between holding things back and playing extremely conservative. McCoy even said after the game they had a bunch of plays designed to throw to him out of the backfield they practiced for the game and then didn't use. They didn't roll out, bootleg or design run Tyrod hardly at all. Or throw deep. Those are his strengths. They held back because the game wasn't ever much in doubt regardless of the score.

I didn't criticize the strategy at all. It worked. But you're right, that was another reason WHY they held him back.

 

...NO WAY was I criticizing you bud.....we're in agreement.....even though the Jets were an "arduous task", we stayed vanilla.......

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

No. It's not meaningless. It's like at least 6% meaningful, unlike the preseason everyone was whining about, which was ZERO percent meaningful.

Let's see how meaningful they are Sunday at 5 pm.

 

He made improvements. Was it him or the Jets?

Winks

[GoBills808]

Just a note for people who don't know - DVOA isn't very helpful until after Week 4, which is when they start adjusting for strength of opponent. The first 4 weeks they keep everything equal. That being said, it does at least tell us that in a vacuum and adjusting for game situation Tyrod Taylor played like the 10th most efficient QB in Week 1. That is only for passing, no rushes are included. Let's hope it keeps up!

 

Football is a game in which nearly every action requires the work of two or more teammates -- in fact, usually 11 teammates all working in unison. Unfortunately, when it comes to individual player ratings, we are still far from the point at which we can determine the value of a player independent from the performance of his teammates. That means that when we say, "In 2014, Marshawn Lynch had a DVOA of 23.1%, what we are really saying is “In 2014, Marshawn Lynch, playing in Darrell Bevell’s offensive system with the Seattle offensive line blocking for him and Russell Wilson selling the keeper when necessary, had a DVOA of 23.1%."

[HappyDays]

 

Football is a game in which nearly every action requires the work of two or more teammates -- in fact, usually 11 teammates all working in unison. Unfortunately, when it comes to individual player ratings, we are still far from the point at which we can determine the value of a player independent from the performance of his teammates. That means that when we say, "In 2014, Marshawn Lynch had a DVOA of 23.1%, what we are really saying is In 2014, Marshawn Lynch, playing in Darrell Bevells offensive system with the Seattle offensive line blocking for him and Russell Wilson selling the keeper when necessary, had a DVOA of 23.1%."

But this is true for every stat! Passer rating isn't measuring how good the QB is, it's a measure of how good the passing offense is in a particular offensive system with particular players. I've seen that disclaimer before and I don't put any stock in it.

 

DVOA is still the best measurement IMO because it controls for many factors that no other stat does. Down and distance, current score, strength of opponent... There is no other stat like it.

[GoBills808]

DVOA is still the best measurement IMO because it controls for many factors that no other stat does. Down and distance, current score, strength of opponent... There is no other stat like it.

http://www.footballperspective.com/correlating-passing-stats-with-wins/

[HappyDays]

http://www.footballperspective.com/correlating-passing-stats-with-wins/

I have no clue what I'm supposed to glean from this, since they didn't consider DVOA at all. Are you trying to tell me NY/A is a better stat? I don't necessarily disagree with that, it's not a stat I've looked into very closely but it is pretty straightforward. In 2015 Tyrod ranked 9th in adjusted NY/A and in 2016 he ranked 18th. That is actually pretty close to both his passer rating and DVOA rankings in the same years.

Edited September 14, 2017 by HappyDays

[transplantbillsfan]

The issue is not whether he CAN do those things. The issue is that his level of play has been so inconsistent. We've seen scrub QBs have big games on occasion but they always revert back to their norm. Tyrod is similar except his norm is better than those scrubs. He's not a guy that's going to carry an offense or will put up big numbers. He's mostly a function of the things around him. If the running game and defense are doing well then he's usually good. Cherry picking a single instance in your scenario is flawed when it ignores his entire body of work. I play golf, and there are times off the tee where I have great drives down the middle of the fairway and score well on holes but those are few and far between. That's not who I am as a golfer consistently and the Miami and Seattle performances are not who Tyrod is consistently either.....yet

 

I agree that consistency is the issue.

 

But I think it's not so much an issue of consistently seeing games like Seattle or Miami. It's more about eliminating games like the whole Ravens game and very long stretches of the Jets game and the whole Bengals game and most of the Pittsburgh game and the 2nd half of the Raiders game from last year. Or let those pop up once or twice a year rather than 5 or 6 times.

 

 

Expecting consistent greatness seems unreasonable. Just get rid of the bad.

Let's see how meaningful they are Sunday at 5 pm.

 

He made improvements. Was it him or the Jets?

Winks

 

Sure, we'll wait til Sunday.

 

If he sucks, everyone will say it was the Jets.

 

If he plays well, everyone will say "let's wait another week and see if he can keep it up."

 

​And the pendulum swings.

 

 

Personally, I think Carolina's D is one of the best in the league. Sunday's gonna be fun.

[Bangarang]

 

I agree that consistency is the issue.

 

But I think it's not so much an issue of consistently seeing games like Seattle or Miami. It's more about eliminating games like the whole Ravens game and very long stretches of the Jets game and the whole Bengals game and most of the Pittsburgh game and the 2nd half of the Raiders game from last year. Or let those pop up once or twice a year rather than 5 or 6 times.

 

 

Expecting consistent greatness seems unreasonable. Just get rid of the bad.

 

Ultimately I think Tyrod will always fall somewhere in the middle between who he was against Baltimore and who he was against Seattle or Miami. He's good enough to have really good games but isn't immune to having a stinker either. He's our best option for now but I'd still keep an eye out for possible upgrades. Edited September 14, 2017 by Bangarang

[transplantbillsfan]

Ultimately I think Tyrod will always fall somewhere in the middle between who he was against Baltimore and who he was against Seattle or Miami. He's good enough to have really good games but isn't immune to having a stinker either. He's our best option for now but I'd still keep an eye out for possible upgrades.

 

If Taylor always falls in the middle. If he's never as bad as he was against Baltimore or Cincy or all those other games I mentioned but he's never as good as he was against Seattle or Miami, then I think it becomes a legitimate question of whether you should replace him.

 

If Taylor always plays at a level (this is a general level of QB play I'm talking about, not stats... we can quip and quibble over what games I choose, if you really want, but that's not the intention) as high as, but no higher than the 2 Miami games in 2015 but no lower than a game like the Jags or Cardinals game last year, I think sacrificing a really high ceiling for a really high floor is something a lot of NFL coaches would take.

Edited September 14, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[GoBills808]

 

If Taylor always falls in the middle. If he's never as bad as he was against Baltimore or Cincy or all those other games I mentioned but he's never as good as he was against Seattle or Miami, then I think it becomes a legitimate question of whether you should replace him.

 

If Taylor always plays at a level (this is a general level of QB play I'm talking about, not stats... we can quip and quibble over what games I choose, if you really want, but that's not the intention) as high as, but no higher than the 2 Miami games in 2015 but no lower than a game like the Jags or Cardinals game last year, I think sacrificing a really high ceiling for a really high floor is something a lot of NFL coaches would take.

Very true. Probably Reid and Smith are the best example of that right now...Tannehill another, and I'd put Bridgewater in that category if he ever plays again. There's a lot to be said for the stabilizing effect consistent quarterback play has on a franchise, to say nothing of a coach staff's tenure. The issue then becomes: does he have enough (or could he, with a reasonable amount of talent surrounding him) to win a Super Bowl?

 

Because for as much grief as Flacco, Manning, Wilson get (and much of it is legitimately deserved)...they actually won a championship. It's debatable the extent to which they personally contributed, but they were able to do it. IMO the Bills lack the institutional cohesion necessary to get a Super Bowl out of a QB like Taylor, and thus require a high ceiling-type guy who can overcome a franchise's deficiencies and win it all, even if it's just a lightning in a bottle type season.

[transplantbillsfan]

Very true. Probably Reid and Smith are the best example of that right now...Tannehill another, and I'd put Bridgewater in that category if he ever plays again. There's a lot to be said for the stabilizing effect consistent quarterback play has on a franchise, to say nothing of a coach staff's tenure. The issue then becomes: does he have enough (or could he, with a reasonable amount of talent surrounding him) to win a Super Bowl?

 

Because for as much grief as Flacco, Manning, Wilson get (and much of it is legitimately deserved)...they actually won a championship. It's debatable the extent to which they personally contributed, but they were able to do it. IMO the Bills lack the institutional cohesion necessary to get a Super Bowl out of a QB like Taylor, and thus require a high ceiling-type guy who can overcome a franchise's deficiencies and win it all, even if it's just a lightning in a bottle type season.

We're at least on the same page with QBs more than I thought.

 

I think your "institutional cohesion" thing can just happen much more quickly than you, I guess. I think new coaches and GMs can very quickly bring that in if they're the right guys.

[Kaenon]

Still waiting.

I'm getting older...

[BringBackOrton]

I think that for the most part McD and Rico had the child leash still on TT last week, knowing the Jets couldn't score, TT was coming off his bumpusofthenogginous, hadn't thrown much to top three hideouts in camp much, etc.

 

This week they will probably give him a little more rope but not really unleash him.

RIP in peace this opinion.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Hopefully when they unleash him he runs away and they can't find him.

[Crusher]

Lol at this thread

[Fadingpain]

Hopefully when they unleash him he runs away and they can't find him.

[Kelly the Dog]

RIP in peace this opinion.

Yup. They closed the leash.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

But this is true for every stat! Passer rating isn't measuring how good the QB is, it's a measure of how good the passing offense is in a particular offensive system with particular players. I've seen that disclaimer before and I don't put any stock in it.

 

DVOA is still the best measurement IMO because it controls for many factors that no other stat does. Down and distance, current score, strength of opponent... There is no other stat like it.

 

So is the stat 9-3 relevant in the "can't wait to unleash Tyrod Taylor" debacle? Must be preseason, huh?

[Bangarang]

[MAJBobby]

Guess we are still waiting.

[Jasovon]

Are you sure they didn't mean "release"

[Bangarang]

Are you sure they didn't mean "release"

Lol this was good

[Rochesterfan]

Hopefully when they unleash him he runs away and they can't find him.

LOL - funny stuff

[MAJBobby]

Gonna have to be next week. Shady isnt doing anything against this Den Defense

[LABILLBACKER]

Are you sure they didn't mean "release"

Hilarious

[frostbitmic]

I can't wait for them to unleash Tyrod too .... What week will that be ?