Bills GM Brandon Beane 'annoyed' by tanking talk

[Runninrams]

This is a serious question, I can't think of an example of an NFL franchise tanking where it worked?

 

Suck for Luck worked

[chris heff]

3 straight playoffs and AFC championship game before he got hurt

I guess, but didn't the Jets under Rex with Sanchez go to two straight AFC championship games? Do you really want to use that as a gage of success? And with Manning hurt did the Colts have much of a choice? The tank was kind of forced on them.

 

I still can't come up with one example of a team planning and executing a tank and having it result in any kind of long term success.

[SoTier]

Good grief...every thread has the same arguments. At some point, we have to move on guys. Three years down the road, we will have some answers and clarity as to whether the trade was good or bad.

 

... and 20 straight years without making the playoffs.

Right-- when you send out talent this year for picks next year, trade back in the draft for a pick next year, and let more substantial FAs walk than you sign to free up space next year.... you are not building the 2017 team. You are building 2018 and hoping not to embarrass in 2017

 

No, you just don't give a crap about winning in 2017 ... or 2018 or any other season.

[leonbus23]

 

Anyone tell Beane we're ANNOYED at him for trading away the most physically talented player on the team? Because, yeah, player of that caliber can just be replaced in the draft, right?

 

I know. And even if we do get a player like Sammy in the draft, we will be confronted with the same question of whether to pay him at some point.

Edited August 16, 2017 by leonbus23

[Magox]

 

I know. And even if we do get a player like Sammy in the draft, we will be confronted with the same question of whether to pay him at some point.

 

Only if that person has had injury issues. Let's not lose sight of that important detail.

[BillsFan4]

Which is literally the worst thing they could have done.

 

Either go for playoffs, or go for the cellar. Enough of this middle ground crap.

 

IF they would have went for the cellar they could have a top 3 pick and all this additional draft capital, but instead it will be pick 12-15 and other draft capital that now has to be spent to move up in the draft.

Right, because the Bills didn't beat a brady-less Pats 16-0.

 

Wthout Brady the Pats are an average team, at best.

 

Yeah, with their 3rd string QB playing hurt and missing other key players too (like Gronk for much of the game).

 

Do you remember Brady at the beginning of his career? For years he was more of a check-down game manager type QB. He wasn't always the same Brady that we see today, who has had the chance to literally perfect playing in that system.

 

Again, Brady is amazing and will go down as one of the best ever. But that Pats team is so much more than just Brady alone. Giving Brady all the credit neglects giving Belichick just as much credit for what he's done. The Patriots are a very good all around team almost every single year, on offense and defense.

[zow2]

I guess, but didn't the Jets under Rex with Sanchez go to two straight AFC championship games? Do you really want to use that as a gage of success? And with Manning hurt did the Colts have much of a choice? The tank was kind of forced on them.

 

I still can't come up with one example of a team planning and executing a tank and having it result in any kind of long term success.

 

The Tank doesn't work in the NFL. Those that think it does are delusional. Losing just sets up a culture of losing that's hard to break. You're right, the Colts "lucked" out by Peyton being injured in the perfect scenario that wasn't planned. Once they built up a terrible record, they finished it off.

 

When teams that pick in the top 10 hit on a QB, that's all you need.. (i.e. Eli, Big Ben, Ryan, Luck, Palmer, Cam, Winston, Peyton, Rivers, etc). Anyone can move up for the right price. You don't have to completely suck and rip the heart out of your fanbase in the hopes of drafting #1. When Teams hit on a QB later in the first round and beyond it's just gravy (Flacco, Dak, Wilson, Brees, Cousins, etc..). There are too many examples of high pick QB's that never turned out to be anything.

 

I'm with Beane. Stay competitive now...while building for the future.

[chris heff]

The Tank doesn't work in the NFL. Those that think it does are delusional. Losing just sets up a culture of losing that's hard to break. You're right, the Colts "lucked" out by Peyton being injured in the perfect scenario that wasn't planned. Once they built up a terrible record, they finished it off.

 

When teams that pick in the top 10 hit on a QB, that's all you need.. (i.e. Eli, Big Ben, Ryan, Luck, Palmer, Cam, Winston, Peyton, Rivers, etc). Anyone can move up for the right price. You don't have to completely suck and rip the heart out of your fanbase in the hopes of drafting #1. When Teams hit on a QB later in the first round and beyond it's just gravy (Flacco, Dak, Wilson, Brees, Cousins, etc..). There are too many examples of high pick QB's that never turned out to be anything.

 

I'm with Beane. Stay competitive now...while building for the future.

I agree with you, but there are a lot of people on his site wishing for a total tank. I don't understand why, I can't think of any instances of that strategy working in the NFL. So I asked the question.

 

As for McBeane I'm still on the fence, these guys aren't Belichick.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Would be helpful if you know the right history, as opposed to the false one that you cling to.

 

Very few people heard of Mularkey & Whaley. The only reason anyone knew about Whaley was from the email flap. Donahoe reached into his Pittsburgh past to get Mularkey who wasn't on anyone's radar before, and Pittsburgh actually preferred Mularkey to leave so they could move Whisenhunt into the OC job.

 

Ryan was the favorite for Atlanta, but all talks stopped when Blank was observing shiva for his mother (which Mehta conveniently ignored in his article). That's the real origin of the "Don't let him out of this room" quote. Bills knew that if they let Ryan walk, Blank would resume discussions once his mourning was over.

So you don't think NFL executives didn't one of the best franchises in sports OC and player personnel executive before we hired them? Of course, they were known in the NFL before we hired them. http://m.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Doug-Whaley-named-Bills-general-manager/49e2e920-3b2a-48ff-950a-2c5d0b4004fd

[CountDorkula]

 

The Tank doesn't work in the NFL. Those that think it does are delusional. Losing just sets up a culture of losing that's hard to break. You're right, the Colts "lucked" out by Peyton being injured in the perfect scenario that wasn't planned. Once they built up a terrible record, they finished it off.

 

When teams that pick in the top 10 hit on a QB, that's all you need.. (i.e. Eli, Big Ben, Ryan, Luck, Palmer, Cam, Winston, Peyton, Rivers, etc). Anyone can move up for the right price. You don't have to completely suck and rip the heart out of your fanbase in the hopes of drafting #1. When Teams hit on a QB later in the first round and beyond it's just gravy (Flacco, Dak, Wilson, Brees, Cousins, etc..). There are too many examples of high pick QB's that never turned out to be anything.

 

I'm with Beane. Stay competitive now...while building for the future.

the most overrated thing in sports.

 

There is no such thing as a losing culture. If the Bills get a franchise QB, did they "change the culture" or did they just luck into finding a guy that can win games.

 

The Pittsburgh Penguins didn't change the culture, they drafted two of the best players in the entire game.

The Colts didn't change the culture, they drafted Peyton manning.

 

 

 

The list goes on and on, culture is such a coach talk BS thing used.

[reddogblitz]

Which is literally the worst thing they could have done.

 

Either go for playoffs, or go for the cellar. Enough of this middle ground crap.

 

IF they would have went for the cellar they could have a top 3 pick and all this additional draft capital, but instead it will be pick 12-15 and other draft capital that now has to be spent to move up in the draft.

 

Do you know the Hawks went 7-9 2 years in a row before they made the playoffs? They didn't have to be the worst to be the best. Or to get their "franchise QB". The Saints didn't either. Nor did the Steelers or Patsies** for that matter.

 

There's more than 1 way to skin a cat. An early pick is also not a golden ticket. Most of those guys suck too.

Edited August 16, 2017 by reddogblitz

[GG]

So you don't think NFL executives didn't one of the best franchises in sports OC and player personnel executive before we hired them? Of course, they were known in the NFL before we hired them. http://m.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Doug-Whaley-named-Bills-general-manager/49e2e920-3b2a-48ff-950a-2c5d0b4004fd

 

I'm going under the assumption that the "known" reference is by ordinary NFL fans.

 

If the standard is to be known by NFL executives, then both Beane's and McD's backgrounds are superior to Mularkey & Whaley

[mrags]

the most overrated thing in sports.

 

There is no such thing as a losing culture. If the Bills get a franchise QB, did they "change the culture" or did they just luck into finding a guy that can win games.

 

The Pittsburgh Penguins didn't change the culture, they drafted two of the best players in the entire game.

The Colts didn't change the culture, they drafted Peyton manning.

 

 

 

The list goes on and on, culture is such a coach talk BS thing used.

considering that we haven't had a playoff caliber team in 17 years I think there is argument to this.

 

But being bad and trying to be bad just to get the best pick in the draft are 2 different things. Creating a team to lose and keeping that losing mentality for a whole season is contagious.

 

Just like all the fans here that assume the wheels are falling off just because we traded a WR they were all in love with. Many, if not the majority have already written the season off as a losing season. Many, if not most are already calling for a "Tank" to get a high draft pick next year.

[reddogblitz]

I guess, but didn't the Jets under Rex with Sanchez go to two straight AFC championship games? Do you really want to use that as a gage of success? And with Manning hurt did the Colts have much of a choice? The tank was kind of forced on them.

I still can't come up with one example a team planning and executing a tank and having it result in any kind of long term success.

Colts could have scoured the waiver wire for someone better than Curtis Painter for crying out loud. OR, they could have traded for someone like the Vikings did last year. Tanking was By no means thrust upon them IMHO.

 

But it is the only one I can think of and now it's overall effectiveness is in doubt. Usually tanking is pitched as setting you up for 15 years, not as a short term patch. At the moment, Suck for Luck appears to be just that. We'll see.

Edited August 16, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Like A Mofo]

@nfl.com

Bills GM Brandon Beane 'annoyed' by tanking talk

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000829966/article/bills-gm-brandon-beane-annoyed-by-tanking-talk?networkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3dstory&env=&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3daround-the-league%3bteam%3dbuf%3bconf%3dafc%3bdvsn%3dace%3bplyr%3danquan_boldin%3bplyr%3djordan_matthews&p.ct=Around+the+NFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

 

 

Be annoyed all he wants. It is what needs to be done. Tank it!

 

I hope the Jets sweep the Bills for the betterment of the Bills and for the Jets to avoid getting Darnold.

 

Have to think big picture. Give me 1-15.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Like A Mofo

[oldmanfan]

Colts could have scoured the waiver wire for someone better than Curtis Painter for crying out loud. OR, they could have traded for someone like the Vikings did last year. Tanking was By no means thrust upon them IMHO.

 

But it is the only one I can think of and now it's overall effectiveness is in doubt. Usually tanking is pitched as setting you up for 15 years, not as a short term patch. At the moment, Suck for Luck appears to be just that. We'll see.

Since I live here in Indy let me educate you. When they found out about Manning their first move was to bring in Kerry Collins. So they had a veteran with Super Bowl experience. Collins didn't play well and decided to retire a few weeks into the season. At that point there simply wasn'yt much out there.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ProFootballTalk

20-minute @PFT_Live chat with Rams G.M. Les Snead starts with the nuts and bolts of the Sammy Watkins trade

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/16/rams-started-pursuit-of-watkins-when-bills-didnt-exercise-fifth-year-option/

I'll venture a guess that Jim Schwartz is happy to have Darby:

 

@TheEaglesWire

Eagles training camp practice notes: Defense, Ronald Darby shine

http://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/14/eagles-training-camp-practice-notes-defense-ronald-darby-shine/

@bills_fanly

Howie Roseman goes inside the Jordan Matthews trade #Bills

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/14/howie-roseman-goes-inside-the-jordan-matthews-trade/

[PolishDave]

considering that we haven't had a playoff caliber team in 17 years I think there is argument to this.

 

But being bad and trying to be bad just to get the best pick in the draft are 2 different things. Creating a team to lose and keeping that losing mentality for a whole season is contagious.

 

Just like all the fans here that assume the wheels are falling off just because we traded a WR they were all in love with. Many, if not the majority have already written the season off as a losing season. Many, if not most are already calling for a "Tank" to get a high draft pick next year.

 

You are correct.

 

And if you want a team to play to win you have to keep their minds in the right place. You have to give them as many reasons to be optimistic as possible. Ditching one of their top 2 players on offense when there is no cause to do it this year is a great way to gut punch the entire team. Bills staff "Yea we want to win. But, if you are super talented and going to want to make big money in this league next year, we don't want you here this year."

 

This translates onto the field by players more easily developing a "Who gives a crap" attitude. Who gives a crap about this year, who gives a crap about this team, who gives a crap about this organization. - Those types of thoughts.

 

Say you're in a game and the other team gets up 2 scores on you. Instead of digging deep and looking for a way to come back on them, you might start thinking "Who gives a crap?" And once that mentality hits - well, it just becomes that much harder for you to come back in that game. Instead it is more likely that the failure gains momentum and turns into a blowout.

 

Don't emotionally gut punch every player on your team and then expect them not to feel bad.

[oldmanfan]

 

You are correct.

 

And if you want a team to play to win you have to keep their minds in the right place. You have to give them as many reasons to be optimistic as possible. Ditching one of their top 2 players on offense when there is no cause to do it this year is a great way to gut punch the entire team. Bills staff "Yea we want to win. But, if you are super talented and going to want to make big money in this league next year, we don't want you here this year."

 

This translates onto the field by players more easily developing a "Who gives a crap" attitude. Who gives a crap about this year, who gives a crap about this team, who gives a crap about this organization. - Those types of thoughts.

 

Say you're in a game and the other team gets up 2 scores on you. Instead of digging deep and looking for a way to come back on them, you might start thinking "Who gives a crap?" And once that mentality hits - well, it just becomes that much harder for you to come back in that game. Instead it is more likely that the failure gains momentum and turns into a blowout.

 

Don't emotionally gut punch every player on your team and then expect them not to feel bad.

Every player on the team is not emotionally guy punched. More hysteria around here.

[row_33]

the most overrated thing in sports.

 

There is no such thing as a losing culture. If the Bills get a franchise QB, did they "change the culture" or did they just luck into finding a guy that can win games.

 

The Pittsburgh Penguins didn't change the culture, they drafted two of the best players in the entire game.

The Colts didn't change the culture, they drafted Peyton manning.

 

 

 

The list goes on and on, culture is such a coach talk BS thing used.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, a big hand for your Cleveland Browns!

[CountDorkula]

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, a big hand for your Cleveland Browns!

Yes the Cleveland Browns the only team that has had as crappy QB situation as the Bills. Again do you blame the culture, or the fact that the QB list is dookie. Its amazing that the last time the Browns made the playoffs was the last time they had a somewhat relevant QB in Tim Couch.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_starting_quarterbacks

[mrags]

 

You are correct.

 

And if you want a team to play to win you have to keep their minds in the right place. You have to give them as many reasons to be optimistic as possible. Ditching one of their top 2 players on offense when there is no cause to do it this year is a great way to gut punch the entire team. Bills staff "Yea we want to win. But, if you are super talented and going to want to make big money in this league next year, we don't want you here this year."

 

This translates onto the field by players more easily developing a "Who gives a crap" attitude. Who gives a crap about this year, who gives a crap about this team, who gives a crap about this organization. - Those types of thoughts.

 

Say you're in a game and the other team gets up 2 scores on you. Instead of digging deep and looking for a way to come back on them, you might start thinking "Who gives a crap?" And once that mentality hits - well, it just becomes that much harder for you to come back in that game. Instead it is more likely that the failure gains momentum and turns into a blowout.

 

Don't emotionally gut punch every player on your team and then expect them not to feel bad.

except as far as you know this doesn't affect each player. For all you know Sammy was a diva in the locker room and not a team player. For all you know Sammy wanted off this team and made it known. Maybe one of that is true. We don't know. Only the locker room does. With that said, you are speculating based on your opinion. You cannot go by interviews with players because they are still on this team and may have to say publicly different than what they feel. Regardless of how they feel about someone on the field may not be how they feel about them personally. And that may affect what they say about a person.

 

I've had many people I work with that I can't stand them as a person but trust everything they do at work to get a job done. Just like I have some personal friends I work with but don't trust them to do a good job when things need to get done.

[chris heff]

Colts could have scoured the waiver wire for someone better than Curtis Painter for crying out loud. OR, they could have traded for someone like the Vikings did last year. Tanking was By no means thrust upon them IMHO.

But it is the only one I can think of and now it's overall effectiveness is in doubt. Usually tanking is pitched as setting you up for 15 years, not as a short term patch. At the moment, Suck for Luck appears to be just that. We'll see.

We agree sort of, but unless they purposely broke Payton's neck it was absolutely thrust upon them.

[Wayne Arnold]

 

You are correct.

 

And if you want a team to play to win you have to keep their minds in the right place. You have to give them as many reasons to be optimistic as possible. Ditching one of their top 2 players on offense when there is no cause to do it this year is a great way to gut punch the entire team. Bills staff "Yea we want to win. But, if you are super talented and going to want to make big money in this league next year, we don't want you here this year."

 

This translates onto the field by players more easily developing a "Who gives a crap" attitude. Who gives a crap about this year, who gives a crap about this team, who gives a crap about this organization. - Those types of thoughts.

 

Say you're in a game and the other team gets up 2 scores on you. Instead of digging deep and looking for a way to come back on them, you might start thinking "Who gives a crap?" And once that mentality hits - well, it just becomes that much harder for you to come back in that game. Instead it is more likely that the failure gains momentum and turns into a blowout.

 

Don't emotionally gut punch every player on your team and then expect them not to feel bad.

 

You're acting like the Bills traded away Aaron Rodgers. Sammy was nothing more to this franchise than a very talented wide receiver who may have turned some players off in light of Anquan Bolden's recent 'diva' comments.

 

"Emotionally gut punch." Good Lord, get a grip.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

You're acting like the Bills traded away Aaron Rodgers. Sammy was nothing more to this franchise than a very talented wide receiver who may have turned some players off in light of Anquan Bolden's recent 'diva' comments.

 

"Emotionally gut punch." Good Lord, get a grip.

 

Had nothing to do with Sammy and Sal Capaccio reported that he's talked to Bills' players both on and off the record and to a man they said that Sammy was a hard worker and well liked teammate that they will really miss. Peter King also reported that the veteran players loved Sammy.

Edited August 17, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[8-8 Forever?]

 

They are "middling" it. Claiming to be in winning mode for the 2017 season while building for the future. It's a tough sell IMO.

they'll play hard, win 3 or 4 games and go draft a top QB and generally reload in the draft next year. this year will be bad, unless McD and team coach their asses off and they stay healthy. but then they don't get the QB. in today's NFL, they should go play hard , win 3 games and go get a long term solution at QB.

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Had nothing to do with Sammy and Sal Capaccio reported that he's talked to Bills' players both on and off the record and to a man they said that Sammy was a hard worker and well liked teammate that they will really miss. Peter King also reported that the veteran players loved Sammy.

 

Fair enough. I still think you're grossly exaggerating the mental effect it will have on the players.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Fair enough. I still think you're grossly exaggerating the mental effect it will have on the players.

 

Players aren't stupid. They know that the trade of Watkins makes them a worse team in 2017. These guys want to win.

[row_33]

Yes the Cleveland Browns the only team that has had as crappy QB situation as the Bills. Again do you blame the culture, or the fact that the QB list is dookie. Its amazing that the last time the Browns made the playoffs was the last time they had a somewhat relevant QB in Tim Couch.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_starting_quarterbacks

 

I don't have a dogmatic answer, bad ownership does set a bad culture and hires incompetent people for long runs of time.

 

The NFL gives the worst team the top pick every season, no fixing a lottery or pingpong balls.

 

And you can't build a superpower like the NBA by colluding 3 stars to all go to the same team.

 

So 2 decades of stink has to be more than just random bad luck....

[reddogblitz]

Since I live here in Indy let me educate you. When they found out about Manning their first move was to bring in Kerry Collins. So they had a veteran with Super Bowl experience. Collins didn't play well and decided to retire a few weeks into the season. At that point there simply wasn'yt much out there.

Thanks for the education .

 

Kerry was legit even if he was 38 years old.

[4merper4mer]

I wonder if he is still annoyed at fans think we aren't trying to win this year. How dare fans understand that having a dynamic WR threat opens up other options for the offense. Only NFL GMs should be privy to that info. I'm guessing Beane got just a little more up to speed watching that last night.

[26CornerBlitz]

@evansilva

I expect #Bills to listen to trade offers for Shady McCoy & Tyrod Taylor if not make some themselves. Getting 2017 wins not their priority.

[4merper4mer]

I'm surprised these guys would be ok with just chalking up a losing season.

 

They can't be that naive to think they are automatically getting 5, 4 or even 3 years without showing results can they?

 

 

They deserve at least 3 even if it won't be fun for fans initially. I don't really love their treatment of Sammy which was outrageously dumb and emotional. I had liked pretty much everything else they were doing and it seemed to make sense. Even the Darby trade made sense once the Sammy debacle had been completed. In isolation the Darby trade was good and showed forward thinking.

 

I bolded "had" in the previous section because Beane's verbal smackdown of fans for having the gaul to think we are tanking when we GAVE AWAY OUR BEST PLAYER for future assets was unnecessary and insulting. No GM or coach is perfect so it is not the end of the world but I sure hope he learns to stop being a douche bag and blatantly talking down to the fan base. Talking down subtly is necessary at times, but this was blatant even to casual fans.

 

@evansilva

I expect #Bills to listen to trade offers for Shady McCoy & Tyrod Taylor if not make some themselves. Getting 2017 wins not their priority.

 

I scanned his feed. Not sure he knows a lot of insider information.

[dave mcbride]

@evansilva

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I expect #Bills to listen to trade offers for Shady McCoy & Tyrod Taylor if not make some themselves. Getting 2017 wins not their priority.

 

Interesting. What about Pitt for Shady? He's pricey, but a lot less pricey than a tagged Bell and he has more years on his contract than just one year. Shady has played well against the Pats and -- wait for it -- he went to Pitt.

[26CornerBlitz]

Interesting. What about Pitt for Shady? He's pricey, but a lot less pricey than a tagged Bell and he has more years on his contract than just one year. Shady has played well against the Pats and -- wait for it -- he went to Pitt.

 

If he was traded or they're thinking about, I mentioned Green Bay as a good fit.

[Fan in Chicago]

 

 

I bolded "had" in the previous section because Beane's verbal smackdown of fans for having the gaul to think we are tanking when we GAVE AWAY OUR BEST PLAYER for future assets was unnecessary and insulting. No GM or coach is perfect so it is not the end of the world but I sure hope he learns to stop being a douche bag and blatantly talking down to the fan base. Talking down subtly is necessary at times, but this was blatant even to casual fans.

 

Exactly. He saying he is annoyed certainly rankled me and even a few days later, I cant get over it for the reasons you stated. He has proven nothing as a GM so far. Poor press conferences are something that Whaley used to regularly get trashed for. Beane's start is no better and the pressure will get worse if the team underperforms. He needs to understand the public aspect of his job real soon.

[Wayne Arnold]

I bolded "had" in the previous section because Beane's verbal smackdown of fans for having the gaul to think we are tanking when we GAVE AWAY OUR BEST PLAYER for future assets was unnecessary and insulting. No GM or coach is perfect so it is not the end of the world but I sure hope he learns to stop being a douche bag and blatantly talking down to the fan base. Talking down subtly is necessary at times, but this was blatant even to casual fans.

 

Beane didn't give a "verbal smackdown" of fans. Put on your big boy pants and knock it off.

[dave mcbride]

If he was traded or they're thinking about, I mentioned Green Bay as a good fit.

Great fit for GB - a team with a ton of pressure to be more than just good enough to lose in the second round of the playoffs every year.

[thebandit27]

 

If he was traded or they're thinking about, I mentioned Green Bay as a good fit.

 

I think Tampa Bay would make a ton of sense, though I really hope they don't move him for a song.

[4merper4mer]

 

Beane didn't give a "verbal smackdown" of fans. Put on your big boy pants and knock it off.

 

 

"I'm annoyed by my customers" is not a good thing to say in any business no matter what type of pants they wear. You might be splitting heirs when saying it wasn't a verbal smackdown. Fine. He definitely did not show a lot of respect for the fans' knowledge level.