NoSaint Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Just a few quirks to this offseasons total refresh---which suddenly seems to have been much more aggressive than it originally felt like it would be: Our top 4 WRs, top 3 cbs and top 3 safeties from 2016 are all gone. In a passing league that's massive turnover. We could go Dime or 4 wide and Seymour is the only survivor likely to see the field. With Gilmore, EJ, Sammy, kujo, woods, Darby all gone we saw 4 first round picks (Sammy x2), and 3 seconds essentially all depart this offseason without a second contract. That leaves Eric wood, dareus, Glenn, Shaq and Ragland as the only picks on the roster from rounds 1 or 2 pre-McD. I would not be shocked to see 1 more gone this offseason. If Ragland goes, Shaq would be the only 1-2 from the Whaley era on the roster already(if you don't credit nix or McD picks to him) The turnover on the perimiter of both sides, and the huge volume of YOUNG high picks out the door really struck me as substantial even in today's NFL. Both occurrences have to be pretty rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Heads are rolling. I hope McBeane pick some good ones next season. The Bills now only have two first round players pre 2016 on the roster. Two. TWO. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Heads are rolling. I hope McBeane pick some good ones next season. The Bills now only have two first round players pre 2016 on the roster. Two. TWO. Not good. Objectively it's a huge hole of cheap talent -- they really need a near perfect hit rate on both impact players at the top and immediate solid contributors through the mid-late rounds this year and next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 How many spins we going to put on this trade? It's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDogg20 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 How many spins we going to put on this trade? It's done. Haha yeah ik right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Objectively it's a huge hole of cheap talent -- they really need a near perfect hit rate on both impact players at the top and immediate solid contributors through the mid-late rounds this year and next Right. Excited to see Beanes hit ratio on drafts but i hope we field a competitive team do t wanna sit thru a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just posted this on another thread.... Let's pretend.... The trade was actually- Anquan Boldin, Jordan Matthews, EJ Gaines, 2nd Rd pick and a 3rd Rd pick For Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby and a 6th rd pick. Oh and it went through, cause that's basically our team now. Just wondering if folks looked at it like that if they'd feel different. Honestly I think fans will look back at these trades in 5 years and say "that's when things started to change for the better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just posted this on another thread.... Let's pretend.... The trade was actually- Anquan Boldin, Jordan Matthews, EJ Gaines, 2nd Rd pick and a 3rd Rd pick For Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby and a 6th rd pick. Oh and it went through, cause that's basically our team now. Just wondering if folks looked at it like that if they'd feel different. Honestly I think fans will look back at these trades in 5 years and say "that's when things started to change for the better". But why would you look at it like that. We had Boldin before the trade. We could look at it like: Tyrod, Shady, Kyle, Dareus, Tre White, Boldin, Matthews and Gaines, 2nd and 3rd for Watkins, Darby and a 6th. It looks even better now. Objectively it's a huge hole of cheap talent -- they really need a near perfect hit rate on both impact players at the top and immediate solid contributors through the mid-late rounds this year and next Yes, when you turn the roster over fast, the first folks to fall are the cheap depth players. That on top of a roster already declining on that front and we could see some ugliness at certain position groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just posted this on another thread.... Let's pretend.... The trade was actually- Anquan Boldin, Jordan Matthews, EJ Gaines, 2nd Rd pick and a 3rd Rd pick For Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby and a 6th rd pick. Oh and it went through, cause that's basically our team now. Just wondering if folks looked at it like that if they'd feel different. Honestly I think fans will look back at these trades in 5 years and say "that's when things started to change for the better". I don't ever like a trade when you are dealing the more talented player. The Bills did just that. In recent memory, the Shady trade, Hughes trade, Peters trade and Lynch trade were all won by the team acquiring the more talented player. I'm sure that there are more but those were recent and fresh in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What I dont think fans have wrapped their minds around is that they were not going to be able to resign Sammy Beane said as much in his presser...... So how would you feel about the trade "Sammy for a year" was inserted into the verbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What I dont think fans have wrapped their minds around is that they were not going to be able to resign Sammy Beane said as much in his presser...... So how would you feel about the trade "Sammy for a year" was inserted into the verbage? I suppose it depends how readily you excuse the FO for mishandling Watkins contract when all they had to do was pick up his option. No long term deal until after 2018 if you really didn't want to. I will not excuse it. Not being " able" to re- sign Sammy in the event he produced enough to earn it was a problem they created through inaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What I dont think fans have wrapped their minds around is that they were not going to be able to resign Sammy Beane said as much in his presser...... So how would you feel about the trade "Sammy for a year" was inserted into the verbage? Our new GM has never heard of the Franchise Tag? 100% chance Sammy could have been here for another year beyond 2017 if we chose to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What I dont think fans have wrapped their minds around is that they were not going to be able to resign Sammy Beane said as much in his presser...... So how would you feel about the trade "Sammy for a year" was inserted into the verbage? Beane said he didn't have that conversation with Sammy ever. So what are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Beane said he didn't have that conversation with Sammy ever. So what are you talking about? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Our new GM has never heard of the Franchise Tag? 100% chance Sammy could have been here for another year beyond 2017 if we chose to go that route. At what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 At what cost? Market value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 What I dont think fans have wrapped their minds around is that they were not going to be able to resign Sammy Beane said as much in his presser...... So how would you feel about the trade "Sammy for a year" was inserted into the verbage? Oh, well, if beane said it clearly it's irrefutable fact. Only problem is it's not factual. They may have decided they didn't WANT to, but they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Market value? Not quite. Average of the top 5 annual value. That kind of money on a WR cripples you elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 NoSaint...excellent big picture look at things. I remember a couple of years ago, when the Bills were supposedly on the brink, they had a defensive roster that was truly stacked with top round draft and free agent talent. It got them nowhere. with that said, I've always thought that getting to the playoffs should not be this darn hard. Let's see if these new guys prove me right or wrong. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I don't ever like a trade when you are dealing the more talented player. The Bills did just that. In recent memory, the Shady trade, Hughes trade, Peters trade and Lynch trade were all won by the team acquiring the more talented player. I'm sure that there are more but those were recent and fresh in my head. I am sure for every Shady, Hughes trade, there is an equivalent trade where the player has gone on to be a bust for the new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Heads are rolling. I hope McBeane pick some good ones next season. The Bills now only have two first round players pre 2016 on the roster. Two. TWO. Not good. It shows how bad we have drafted over the years, and how over hyped the talent was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What I dont think fans have wrapped their minds around is that they were not going to be able to resign Sammy Beane said as much in his presser...... So how would you feel about the trade "Sammy for a year" was inserted into the verbage? i'm sure they could've signed him, but only if they made him the highest paid WR in the league. (At what cost? As some have stated) When you look at all the variables, as beane stated, and to put it in economic terms, the present value of expected benefits from the trade is greater than the PV from not trading. Benefits are not simply tangible like player stats and cap space, but also intangible like team-first mentality, etc. I think the one variable left out was impact on the fan base--good on Beane for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I am sure for every Shady, Hughes trade, there is an equivalent trade where the player has gone on to be a bust for the new team. There are probably some examples but I gave 4 of the top of my head one by the team acquiring the better player. Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper and a pick? There are tons of examples of what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 There are probably some examples but I gave 4 of the top of my head one by the team acquiring the better player. Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper and a pick? There are tons of examples of what I'm saying. The only thing missing is where the cash went. Great player getting paid (or about to be) for a pick/throw in player, the great player will obviously be the winner, but if you count the cash saved maybe being spent elsewhere it's a hidden value in the trade. I still agree though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 The only thing missing is where the cash went. Great player getting paid (or about to be) for a pick/throw in player, the great player will obviously be the winner, but if you count the cash saved maybe being spent elsewhere it's a hidden value in the trade. I still agree though. That's fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I suppose it depends how readily you excuse the FO for mishandling Watkins contract when all they had to do was pick up his option. No long term deal until after 2018 if you really didn't want to. I will not excuse it. Not being " able" to re- sign Sammy in the event he produced enough to earn it was a problem they created through inaction. Well, thank goodness that you are here to "not excuse" such poor decisions! You and all of your credentials should hold everyone "accountable" until someone gets this team right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I suppose it depends how readily you excuse the FO for mishandling Watkins contract when all they had to do was pick up his option. No long term deal until after 2018 if you really didn't want to. I will not excuse it. Not being " able" to re- sign Sammy in the event he produced enough to earn it was a problem they created through inaction. You should not pick up the option if you are unsure the player will be healthy enough to play, Cost per game is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) I guess we should be happy that instead of taking two years to do flush the roster, it's going to be 6 months plus we're getting some return. Yay us! Although I think the return is more a function of the available talent than anything else. The hit rate on draft picks will not be appreciably higher than the league average. To think otherwise is folly. My only hope is the current folks will be given enough time to get this done. Like 5 years time. Because if not, it's going to feel like groundhog day around here. Edited August 13, 2017 by 4BillsintheBurgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Looking at the big picture, it's really a beautiful thing. Culture needs a big-time change: get rid of management, coaching, and players who only know how to lose. Huge wake-up call to those remaining that they damn well better step up & get with the program. Keep those who can be salvaged and remove the rest, getting value while you still can. Onward and upward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 i read "turning the toaster over fast" and i did not think that was a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 It shows how bad we have drafted over the years, and how over hyped the talent was here.Except that several, at least, of the recently released players have been pretty productive contributors on their new teams. Its not like they got traded/cut and are now out of the league. So I'd say they've let NFL talent walk. The problem with the Bills has been crap coaching and a FO that has been clueless at building and team. And until, the new coaches and FO actually field a professional team, there's little reason to think the new bunch is better than the old bunch. Maybe they are, but maybe they're spinning their wheels just like everyone for the last 2 decades has done. Bottom line... No one has helped this team field a winning team. Not a single player, coach, scout, GM. Dump them all, keep them all. I honestly don't care. Just figure out how to compete on an NFL level, already. But, I'll say this regarding the trade - all the talk of the Bills finally having a plan is just that talk. We have yet to see this "plan" actually produce anything on the field. And it looks, at this point, that we have a solid 2-3 years of mediocrity before we know if these guys are better than the last guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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