Any way you slice it Kaepernick represents good value

[Rob's House]

Didn't say anything about racist or hateful.

 

I feel if you get offended over things that have no impact on your life than you deserve to be offended.

 

Most people that hate kaep blindly do it because they think he's attacking the vets but he's not. It's about how the police treat minorities but like someone said above its the symbol minded people.

 

That's really not it. He violated separation of stadium and state.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440082/sports-politics-dont-ruin-former-latter

 

 

I’ve seen it a million times in Washington, particularly in cable-news green rooms. Two politicians or pundits who are diametrically opposed to each other ideologically manage to be friendly with each other solely because they can talk about the Nationals’ roster or the Redskins’ terrible coaching. I’ve also seen the same thing at airports, bars (and airport bars), in line at the DMV, and in almost every other public space. Rich and poor, black and white, liberal and conservative, southerner and northerner: People from all walks of life can engage in friendly conversation about this widely shared cultural institution.

 

...

 

San Francisco quarterback Colin Kaepernick has decided that he cannot stand for the National Anthem because America “oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way.”

 

He’s gone on at tedious and sanctimonious length about the legitimate problem of police brutality and other Black Lives Matter talking points. I think this is ludicrous on any number of fronts. Kaepernick isn’t being asked to salute rogue cops, or even cops generally. He’s being asked to show respect not just to the flag but to a non-partisan custom. Instead he offers a blanket indictment of America itself and vows to hold his compliance hostage to his personal assessment of complicated social issues. That’s not in a quarterback’s job description any more than it is in a plumber’s.

 

...

 

My point is not that the issues athletes care about are illegitimate. Kaepernick is right that some issues are “bigger than football” — but that is an argument for keeping them out of football! Religion is bigger than football too, which is why we try to keep it from intruding in public life in a divisive way. Indeed, that’s largely the point of America. This country was founded on the notion that politics should not govern every important issue in our lives. That is what liberty means, and that — not police brutality — is what the flag represents.

 

 

[boyst]

In an effort to get this to be a football topic again;

 

I think mobile guys arguably are the best backup QB's you could ask for. Unpredictable, a completely different style of play to gameplan for, and they make up for their deficiencies as passers (that all backups invariably possess) with that extra threat of taking off. If you need to go .500 when your starter was out, a guy like Vick or Kaep would be the ones who could do it short-term.

which is a reason why Fitz might be the best backup qb in the league. He was able to run and able to make the throws to keep the offense from dying. EJ Manuel, Colin kaepernick, Teddy Bridgewater, Tim Tebow, and tyrod Taylor are in the same light. They can run and throw. They are not all the same quality level qb but they are similar in that they cankeep the ooffense from nose diving.

 

Tony Romo, Nick Foles, other backups or projected backups are not the same by any means. They sit in the pocket and will get rocked.

 

If you gave me the choice of a backup qb who is just like my starting qb but not as good or a backup qb who is wild on wheels and can run than I would take the mobile backup. I'd never take a pocket passer as a backup to a mobile qb because the OL would never be able to make the transition to protect him. If we are going to get a backup QB in free agency, kaepernick is terrible but he might be the only qb who fits the criteria.

[row_33]

I guess some team is going to get a real bargain when they commit to him.

 

Popcorn is all ready to sit back and watch the feeding frenzy for his services.

[FireChan]

which is a reason why Fitz might be the best backup qb in the league. He was able to run and able to make the throws to keep the offense from dying. EJ Manuel, Colin kaepernick, Teddy Bridgewater, Tim Tebow, and tyrod Taylor are in the same light. They can run and throw. They are not all the same quality level qb but they are similar in that they cankeep the ooffense from nose diving.

 

Tony Romo, Nick Foles, other backups or projected backups are not the same by any means. They sit in the pocket and will get rocked.

 

If you gave me the choice of a backup qb who is just like my starting qb but not as good or a backup qb who is wild on wheels and can run than I would take the mobile backup. I'd never take a pocket passer as a backup to a mobile qb because the OL would never be able to make the transition to protect him. If we are going to get a backup QB in free agency, kaepernick is terrible but he might be the only qb who fits the criteria.

Yep. A guy like TT/Kaep/Joe Johnson is way better than Hoyer or Cassel or some other statue who will get pummeled.

[row_33]

The O-line would be doing leaps of joy if a drop-back backup got to take over the helm. the chaotic nonsense of wiggly-piggly running for your life out there is poison for the knees and legs of the men doing the trench work.

[boyst]

The O-line would be doing leaps of joy if a drop-back backup got to take over the helm. the chaotic nonsense of wiggly-piggly running for your life out there is poison for the knees and legs of the men doing the trench work.

our ol doesn't have the ass, save for Glenn, to hold up a pocket for a pocket passer.

[Just Joshin']

Based on his recent performance he is a marginal QB at best. Why would a business antagonize a portion of their fan base for a player who may not make the team/contribute little. They can get the same results on the field without the baggage.

 

He sees this himself as he is going to stop protesting. Did the situation change politically? In his world view it is worse. What has changed is no team is interested. The NFL has proven if they think you can help them win they will forgive almost anything,

[row_33]

our ol doesn't have the ass, save for Glenn, to hold up a pocket for a pocket passer.

 

You raise many valid points there.

 

It's tough when your only QB option is...... adequate with room for improvement... TONS of it...

[FireChan]

The O-line would be doing leaps of joy if a drop-back backup got to take over the helm. the chaotic nonsense of wiggly-piggly running for your life out there is poison for the knees and legs of the men doing the trench work.

I disagree. Mobile guys allow the OL to attack more because the DL is so often playing contain and fearing that a mobile QB will run. Not to mention any time there's a complete whiff, a mobile guy has a chance of escaping, whereas the pocket passer is gonna get creamed.

[row_33]

I disagree. Mobile guys allow the OL to attack more because the DL is so often playing contain and fearing that a mobile QB will run. Not to mention any time there's a complete whiff, a mobile guy has a chance of escaping, whereas the pocket passer is gonna get creamed.

 

The o-line likes to stay where it is, i'm sure Brady's o-line is farting rainbows of joy from not having to risk themselves running down the field 80% of the time it isn't short yardage (and even then)

 

With a Tyrod you have no clue what he is going to do, he just runs for his life if his primary receiver isn't WIDE OPEN TOTALLY for a second, he cannot pass the WR into the ball (as of yet)

 

A "mobile" QB is a Randall Cunningham or Flutie or Tarkenton or Vick, one who is PRIMED to run an option game. TT is just clueless out there and waiting to be made a basketcase one of these days.

Edited March 20, 2017 by row_33

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

With due respect--You're wrong on several levels. Most folks that get offended tend to see a disconnect between their value system and that of the offending party. That could be for a variety of reasons, fair, unfair, misguided or whatever, but the simple fact is they see the world differently than someone else. As for the impact on their life, well, that's subjective. If you're a fan of the team, and the team signs a guy who you have serious disagreements with, well the impact is immediate and real. Finally, the fact that some 'hates' CK for his protest is the exact opposite of blind hate.

 

Your statement is insightful. But what's missing from the social debate is a level of civility that used to exist when people openly debated social issues with the goal of reaching some common understanding to move forward. Now all we get is a lot of shouting, empty symbolism, paid professional demonstrators, and rather than reaching some consensus understanding everybody competing in some winner take all conflict. Part of the problem is nobody really wants to have an open and honest discussion about race and social justice as there are many sides to the issue that as you say conflict with individual belief systems from each person's perspective.

 

The other thing is the definition of racist has morphed over time. Before being a racist used to mean somebody who takes action against somebody that violates their civil rights because of the race. Now it includes anybody that might disagree with a certain political philosophy or 'says' something. When I was younger we used to say 'names can never hurt you' but that no longer seems to apply.

 

As for Kap the football QB I would think that if he was worthy of picking up some other quarterback starved team would have made him an offer already.

[Joaquin1119]

I would sign him dirt cheap as a backup

[yungmack]

I'm a combat vet and while I don't agree with Kaep's refusal to stand for the national anthem, I do get he's trying to make a good point.

 

Last year I cheered as enthusiastically for the Bills as ever, despite the coach's support for a racist egomaniac. I'll cheer the Bills again this year if Kaep is on the sideline.

 

What's interesting about Kaep is that his skill set is similar to TT's. In other words, if TT got hurt, we could still run the same offensive scheme and game plan.

 

This is my position in a nutshell. It's all about being able to run the scheme in an emergency. As to his personal negatives, there are any number of players wbo are jerks and worse who plenty of fans are content to have.

[dave mcbride]

I certainly have no problem with his politics (we're talking about a league in which Woody Johnson is a mover and shaker, after all), but his stats this year really didn't reflect how he played. He posted a lot of his positive plays in garbage time and ranked near the bottom in qb efficiency overall. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Edited March 20, 2017 by dave mcbride

[ILBillsfan]

Kapernick got benched for Blaine Gabbert, based on performance. That's all you need to know

 

This should of ended this thread. Kaep is just not very good.

[BillsfanAZ]

I would sign him dirt cheap as a backup

If he would sign him for a decent vet back up contract. I dont think McD would put up with any locker room dividing actions so as long as he kept his head down and worked hard, I think he would be a good back up. That being said, I dont see him signing for back up money. I think he will wait for someplace with a chance to compete for the starting job.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

He's a tough sell to me, people either love him or hate him. Buffalo booed him incessantly when he played a game here last fall, so i'd probably put us int he latter category. I don't know that we kick the tires on anyone til we see how the draft shakes out.

[Riverboat Richie]

If he's not signed by someone after the draft, he will be after a starter goes down, if and when that happens.

[boyst]

 

The o-line likes to stay where it is, i'm sure Brady's o-line is farting rainbows of joy from not having to risk themselves running down the field 80% of the time it isn't short yardage (and even then)

 

With a Tyrod you have no clue what he is going to do, he just runs for his life if his primary receiver isn't WIDE OPEN TOTALLY for a second, he cannot pass the WR into the ball (as of yet)

 

A "mobile" QB is a Randall Cunningham or Flutie or Tarkenton or Vick, one who is PRIMED to run an option game. TT is just clueless out there and waiting to be made a basketcase one of these days.

ols generally don't like pass protection because the d gets to tee off on them. Tee off like golf which is not a real sport.

 

This wears them out letting the DL he the upper hand.

 

A good pass blocker is worth mor than a good run blocker in most cases and offenses.

 

Can we get back to political mumbojumbo tho? This football thread has too much football

[Adam]

 

 

 

People desperately want Chad Kelly on the team but would quit being a fan if they signed Kaepernick? Priorities.

Thank you for posting some common sense

[dorquemada]

If he would sign him for a decent vet back up contract. I dont think McD would put up with any locker room dividing actions so as long as he kept his head down and worked hard, I think he would be a good back up. That being said, I dont see him signing for back up money. I think he will wait for someplace with a chance to compete for the starting job.

 

the first chance he gets he's do something attention seeking that will piss off the fans. what he brings to the table as a QB is outweighed by that. his antics will turn into a cancer on a team that can ill afford it. his GF is a major league SJW so how long do you think he's going to be able to keep his dumb opinions to himself?

[RyanC883]

America was (partially) founded on protest. I don't get how you can hate a guy for peacefully protesting...

 

It's one of our rights as American citizens. It's part of what makes this country so great. Freedom of speech is a constitutional right. I will never forget what a veteran friend once said - freedom of speech is one of the things he fought for, so someone expressing their constitutional right is not disrespecting him at all. It's honoring what he fought to preserve.

 

Anyway...

He would not be my first choice, but I'd take Kaepernick as a cheap veteran backup QB. I'd only be interested if he came cheap enough, though. He plays a similar style to TT, so the offense could pretty much stay the same if Tyrod happened to miss any games, and I don't trust Cardale in the backup spot yet.

I think the Bills could use a veteran backup QB (not necessarily Kaep). I think a good veteran QB could do Tyrod and Cardale some good. Not really sure Kaepernick is the right guy for that, though. I want an experienced, team first type guy who would be willing to help mentor Tyrod and Cardale.

 

he has the right to protest, others have the right to respond to that protest by disliking it. You can't claim your for his "right to protest" while denying others their equal First Amendment Right to say he is a jerk for the manner in which he chooses to protest.

[Adam]

 

the first chance he gets he's do something attention seeking that will piss off the fans. what he brings to the table as a QB is outweighed by that. his antics will turn into a cancer on a team that can ill afford it. his GF is a major league SJW so how long do you think he's going to be able to keep his dumb opinions to himself?

Is that your opinion.......

[CountDorkula]

No politics NOT aside. He is a PR disaster and I know A LOT of guys who would be done with this team with him on it. F Him

Yea F him and his right to freedom of speech and exercising it the way he wanted.

But you know, he hurt your feelings and stuff.

He's a tough sell to me, people either love him or hate him. Buffalo booed him incessantly when he played a game here last fall, so i'd probably put us int he latter category. I don't know that we kick the tires on anyone til we see how the draft shakes out.

If Colin Kaepernick were good, none of this would matter.

 

he has the right to protest, others have the right to respond to that protest by disliking it. You can't claim your for his "right to protest" while denying others their equal First Amendment Right to say he is a jerk for the manner in which he chooses to protest.

I for one, don't understand the concept of playing the national anthem before sporting events. Would anyone be terribly upset if they just stopped doing it?

[xsoldier54]

 

Sounds like you know a lot of guys who can't separate politics from entertainment. Ironically that's how we got into this current mess. Sad!

It was Kaepernick who injected politics into entertainment. Then we are supposed to separate the two? Not likely. And for the record I believe our President is doing an amazing job thus far despite relentless and unfounded attacks from the left. Now separate that.

[Buffalo Boy]

We already have Tyrod Taylor and he's a more effective running QB.

 

That's terrible value.

This!!!

[NoSaint]

In an effort to get this to be a football topic again;

 

I think mobile guys arguably are the best backup QB's you could ask for. Unpredictable, a completely different style of play to gameplan for, and they make up for their deficiencies as passers (that all backups invariably possess) with that extra threat of taking off. If you need to go .500 when your starter was out, a guy like Vick or Kaep would be the ones who could do it short-term.

i tend to fall the same way. If totally oversimplifying, there arent even 32 passers, yet alone 64, so all things equal i dont mind having the wildcard athlete for 2-3 games if needed. if one of these backups wins a game with their arm it tends to be dumb luck. may as well have more avenues for that luck to happen.

I certainly have no problem with his politics (we're talking about a league in which Woody Johnson is a mover and shaker, after all), but his stats this year really didn't reflect how he played. He posted a lot of his positive plays in garbage time and ranked near the bottom in qb efficiency overall. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

i didnt watch much of him or the 9ers so that was a concern of mine when bringing up his stats.

I for one, don't understand the concept of playing the national anthem before sporting events. Would anyone be terribly upset if they just stopped doing it?

i dont know if you missed the last year but it seems like a lot of people would be real upset

[Adam]

Yea F him and his right to freedom of speech and exercising it the way he wanted.

But you know, he hurt your feelings and stuff.

If Colin Kaepernick were good, none of this would matter.

I for one, don't understand the concept of playing the national anthem before sporting events. Would anyone be terribly upset if they just stopped doing it?

Kaepernick may not be great, but he isn't bad. I'd welcome him as a backup, as he fits well with what Tyrod can do. If we draft a guy who can be the #2, then he becomes a very good #3.

 

People are used to the anthem being played. And we are very narcissistic. I couldn't care less if they get upset. they can sit in their living rooms and play it if they want

[dorquemada]

Kaepernick may not be great, but he isn't bad. I'd welcome him as a backup, as he fits well with what Tyrod can do. If we draft a guy who can be the #2, then he becomes a very good #3.

 

People are used to the anthem being played. And we are very narcissistic. I couldn't care less if they get upset. they can sit in their living rooms and play it if they want

 

So because Kaepernick can't keep his dumb opinions to himself, or play QB in the NFL, the Bills must have him? That's your thesis? You're like a chicken who isn't smart enough to not stare up into the sky when it rains

[Adam]

 

So because Kaepernick can't keep his dumb opinions to himself, or play QB in the NFL, the Bills must have him? That's your thesis? You're like a chicken who isn't smart enough to not stare up into the sky when it rains

So is that your opinion......

[Boatdrinks]

No, I spelled out what I thought. But will do so again.

 

Many dislike Kapernick for various reasons.

 

Some because they just want to watch football.

 

Some because they think America is already perfect and needs no changes or reforms.

 

Some because they feel any criticism of society is criticism of them.

 

And then, unfortunately there are the real racists who decided to attack Kaepernick and threaten his life.

 

 

If there is someone that feels any disagreement with Kaepernick is racism then take it up with that person, not me.

You left a major one out. Some who believe he chose a very offensive ( even Jim Brown thought it was offensive to many) way to try to make a point by disrespecting the flag and country and those who fought for it. All to make a questionable point about something very complex and wildly over hyped by the media, something that wasn't even connected to the flag or the anthem. America isn't perfect, but it's still the best. There are other ways he could have made his point about that issue and his own comments showed he really didn't even understand it. Like saying the Officers " punishment" was paid leave. What an idiot , that is while the investigation is going on. He deserves all backlash that he gets on this. Football is entertainment , and if teams think he's bad for business it's not racism like Spike Lee thinks. Just a business decision.

[dorquemada]

So is that your opinion......

 

That's quite a posting gimmick you've worked out there, i bet it never gets tedious

[Adam]

 

That's quite a posting gimmick you've worked out there, i bet it never gets tedious

Face it. You're biased against him because he hurt your precious feelings. He has a skill set which mirrors our starting quarterback and that brings value to the roster

[dorquemada]

Face it. You're biased against him because he hurt your precious feelings. He has a skill set which mirrors our starting quarterback and that brings value to the roster

 

Um, no, it didn't "hurt my feelings", it was just an aggressive display of attention seeking behavior. If you're a parent, you've seen it before. If he's such a great QB, I have to wonder why there's exactly zero demand for his services in a QB starved league. I think you're probably the one who should face it, your hero is a crappy QB, and doesn't have the personality to make up for that.

[Adam]

 

Um, no, it didn't "hurt my feelings", it was just an aggressive display of attention seeking behavior. If you're a parent, you've seen it before. If he's such a great QB, I have to wonder why there's exactly zero demand for his services in a QB starved league. I think you're probably the one who should face it, your hero is a crappy QB, and doesn't have the personality to make up for that.

I'm not sure you are aware of which person in this discussion seems to be seeking attention. I never stated he was a hero. He has a skill set that fits what we do to accomodate Tyrod, and has NFL experience. If the cost is low, he is a good fit. You really can't refute those facts

[jeffismagic]

You left a major one out. Some who believe he chose a very offensive ( even Jim Brown thought it was offensive to many) way to try to make a point by disrespecting the flag and country and those who fought for it. All to make a questionable point about something very complex and wildly over hyped by the media, something that wasn't even connected to the flag or the anthem. America isn't perfect, but it's still the best. There are other ways he could have made his point about that issue and his own comments showed he really didn't even understand it. Like saying the Officers " punishment" was paid leave. What an idiot , that is while the investigation is going on. He deserves all backlash that he gets on this. Football is entertainment , and if teams think he's bad for business it's not racism like Spike Lee thinks. Just a business decision.

 

I don't think Kaepernick is not getting a job because of racism. Who knows but more likely is Kapernick isn't that good. He'll get a backup offer at some point is my guess.

[dorquemada]

I'm not sure you are aware of which person in this discussion seems to be seeking attention. I never stated he was a hero. He has a skill set that fits what we do to accomodate Tyrod, and has NFL experience. If the cost is low, he is a good fit. You really can't refute those facts

 

so he's a poor man's tyrod, with a shipping container worth of baggage, and that makes him a good fit? good God, I sure hope you don't do anything important for a living

[Adam]

 

so he's a poor man's tyrod, with a shipping container worth of baggage, and that makes him a good fit? good God, I sure hope you don't do anything important for a living

Again, is that your opinion? I value Kaepernick's a lot more.

 

Would you prefer to bring in a traditional drop back quarterback to back up Tyrod, and change offensive gears? Especially during a key period where we are rebuilding? Yes, I know facts hurt, but please keep talking, I'm getting a good laugh

[ndirish1978]

I'd prefer to have someone with some upside at backup. We've already seen the best of what Kaepernick can be, he has lost like half his muscle since that time and is just not the QB anymore

[dave mcbride]

i tend to fall the same way. If totally oversimplifying, there arent even 32 passers, yet alone 64, so all things equal i dont mind having the wildcard athlete for 2-3 games if needed. if one of these backups wins a game with their arm it tends to be dumb luck. may as well have more avenues for that luck to happen.

 

i didnt watch much of him or the 9ers so that was a concern of mine when bringing up his stats.

 

 

With regard to backups, you want a guy who can give you a reasonable chance to get you to 2-2 over a 4-game stretch. He's hardly the worst option, but I seem him as more of a 1-3 guy. Having said this, 2-2 guys aren't so easy to find. (In this realm, Matt Moore is kind of the platonic ideal.) Kaepernick is better than a lot of current backup qbs. He's better than Manuel(!), and I'd take him over Landry Jones, Bryce Petty, or Matt Barkley.

Edited March 20, 2017 by dave mcbride