AtlBills Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 During the Moving the Chains segment with Jim Miller and Pat Kerwan, they were going to dissect the AFC East personell by team. I got home before they got to the Bills. Did anyone hear their analysis? They both are very knowledgable and most often give a good and fair assessment. If anyone heard could you please post the major talking points? Many thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 i'll listen to it tomorrow at work and give a write up on it if it seems worthwhile. jim miller can be very good or very bad on the radio. booker/booger macfarland is just awful. he tries to be like stephan a smith against ross tucker who is just too gentle to do that too. tucker has become amazing (by the way marcellus wiley is all over espn these days). pat kirwan is middle of the road good.gil brandt and ross tucker make the channel great. alex marvez isn't bad. i cannot stand rich gannon unless he is talking x's and o's. he and brett favre are the two worst that regularly come on. they stammer, pause, stutter and rarely make a coherent point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 i'll listen to it tomorrow at work and give a write up on it if it seems worthwhile. jim miller can be very good or very bad on the radio. booker/booger macfarland is just awful. he tries to be like stephan a smith against ross tucker who is just too gentle to do that too. tucker has become amazing (by the way marcellus wiley is all over espn these days). pat kirwan is middle of the road good.gil brandt and ross tucker make the channel great. alex marvez isn't bad. i cannot stand rich gannon unless he is talking x's and o's. he and brett favre are the two worst that regularly come on. they stammer, pause, stutter and rarely make a coherent point As an avid listener, I agree with your take but would add Uncle Bill Polian as top flight for knowledge of todays' game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Anthony McFarland is brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISSCHUNK Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I listened and Kirwan really painted a bleak picture for us. Continued to harp on the Tyrod issue stating the kid didn't draw up the contract, Whaley did and they still don't know what they have. They painted themselves into this awful corner because there is no one else there and ready. They have no leverage. Talked about all the F/A's and why it will be tough to get people to sign there until a QB is in place. Nothing positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It amazes me how all the people are slamming the contract now when last year everyone was praising Whaley for such a team friendly deal and killing TT for signing a bad deal. Now all of a sudden all the media say it's a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) It amazes me how all the people are slamming the contract now when last year everyone was praising Whaley for such a team friendly deal and killing TT for signing a bad deal. Now all of a sudden all the media say it's a bad deal. That's not true. Cowherd went off on the Bills for giving money to TT and compared it with the money they threw at Fitz. Something to the effect of they obviously don't know what they are doing. On that we can all agree. Edited February 16, 2017 by Commonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It's difficult to look at some of the contracts we've been handing out, seeing standard contract provisions left out or poorly structured numbers. Why the heck is Overdorf still with this team?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Jim and Pat discussed how the team has a lot of holes to fill. Whaley has a mess on his hands. Pretty down on the Bills the entire segment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It's difficult to look at some of the contracts we've been handing out, seeing standard contract provisions left out or poorly structured numbers. Why the heck is Overdorf still with this team?! I posted a thread about this and the general reply from this board was "fire Nancy at the ticket window too." Same thing the homers say to defend Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I listened and Kirwan really painted a bleak picture for us. Continued to harp on the Tyrod issue stating the kid didn't draw up the contract, Whaley did and they still don't know what they have. They painted themselves into this awful corner because there is no one else there and ready. They have no leverage. Talked about all the F/A's and why it will be tough to get people to sign there until a QB is in place. Nothing positive. I get the distinct feeling that Kirwan is not a player for the Bills, the front office (Whaley?) in particular. I only catch bits and pieces from time to time because I don't spend a lot of time in the car but I remember when Roman was released Kirwan was very bitter about it, he was splewing a lot of poison about the front office and that it's a mess. It was very sobering to have to listen to him about it but I reluctantly gave him the benefit of the doubt, figuring that he knows a hell of a lot more about the internal aspect of the NFL than I do. I must admit that he made a lot of value points about the Bills situation. It got to the point where Jim Miller had to soften it up because it was getting to be a borderline rant. God I sure do hope that McDermott can work some magic for us! I will say that I have been a Whaley believer in the beginning but have been pretty neutral and confused about him the last couple of seasons. It started changing right around the Marone debacticle, figuring that Marone was a jerk but where there is smoke there is fire. If things don't appear to drastically change by season's end then I think that I'll more than likely feel that Whaley, maybe some others, will need to go. One last thing, these last several contracts (Marone's, Dareus', Ryan's and last but not least Tyrod's) have really befuddled me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It amazes me how all the people are slamming the contract now when last year everyone was praising Whaley for such a team friendly deal and killing TT for signing a bad deal. Now all of a sudden all the media say it's a bad deal. I still think the contract was a good idea. Bills would be in the same position now, only facing a franchise tag decision instead of already having a contract in place.Yep, the guarantee is more than the franchise, but you also have him locked up for 5 years at reasonable numbers. If you decide to walk, same as if you decided to walk without the conract. You can bet the Redskins wish they had done this contract with Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Not surprised at Kirwan's take (I didn't listen but what I'm reading in this thread is what I expected). From the outside the Bills look like a mess. Kirwan has his favorites (Carroll) but I think he was lukewarm on Rex. He was beating the drum last offseason that the Bills needed to step up and pay Tyrod, but now comes back with this nonsense. During his visit to Bills training camp last year he also made mention of how many coaches the Bills had, and he always felt fewer assistants was better -- it was a clear red flag to him. For those criticizing Dareus' contract -- you must think contract negotiations are a one-way street. There's nothing horrible about that deal for a superstar player. Yes, there have been some off-the-field issues but I don't hold Whaley accountable for that. Those of us who follow things more closely aren't giving Whaley a free pass but we also realize that the last two HC were thrust upon him. This is the first time he has truly led the search and gotten his recommendation hired. I believe we will see a much more cohesive organization going forward -- hell, the signs are already there with the refreshing absence of leaks from what was a dripping faucet. The bad news is that, as others have noted, the talent the Bills had assembled from 2014-16 may have passed their window of opportunity and we still don't have a proven answer at QB. McDermott and staff may be fantastic and the Bills will still be mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) It amazes me how all the people are slamming the contract now when last year everyone was praising Whaley for such a team friendly deal and killing TT for signing a bad deal. Now all of a sudden all the media say it's a bad deal. it was a brilliant deal, gave them a year to assess TT. Now they have an opportunity to vote up or down. The only thing bad about it is they don't have a plan for if TT is cut, but everyone knew that last year ... it was, TT or nothing, but if TT's performance is just so-so, then they wouldn't be stuck with him ... it's all worked out according to plan.. the problem is he neither was great or sucked, so they don't have a clean decision criteria, plus they have a new staff. They will probably release him and be done with it. Restart with new coach, draft a QB, endure three years of suck, the usual rebuild model. ho hum, and back around the wheel we go. Have fun with that. I'll be on the golf course. Edited February 17, 2017 by 8and8-->NoMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 This is a 5-11 roster right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 The O was scoring last season , fix the D , trade down for extra pick , QB in 2nd rd or later. Chad in the 6th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 This is a 5-11 roster right now. It is coach but I think we can win a few more games for having ousted Rex. Now, if we can have a productive draft without Whaley giving away our picks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 This is a 5-11 roster right now. that's impressive actually cause we still have the draft and free agency and we don't even know the qb really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It is coach but I think we can win a few more games for having ousted Rex. Now, if we can have a productive draft without Whaley giving away our picks....... "Whaley" and "productive draft?" The GM seems to be in win-now mode every year trying to prove everyone wrong that his method of spend big, trade picks, and not address the QB position will work. He's been successful because ownership actually believes Whaley knows what he's doing despite the results over the 4 seasons he's run the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Not surprised at Kirwan's take (I didn't listen but what I'm reading in this thread is what I expected). From the outside the Bills look like a mess. Kirwan has his favorites (Carroll) but I think he was lukewarm on Rex. He was beating the drum last offseason that the Bills needed to step up and pay Tyrod, but now comes back with this nonsense. During his visit to Bills training camp last year he also made mention of how many coaches the Bills had, and he always felt fewer assistants was better -- it was a clear red flag to him. For those criticizing Dareus' contract -- you must think contract negotiations are a one-way street. There's nothing horrible about that deal for a superstar player. Yes, there have been some off-the-field issues but I don't hold Whaley accountable for that. Those of us who follow things more closely aren't giving Whaley a free pass but we also realize that the last two HC were thrust upon him. This is the first time he has truly led the search and gotten his recommendation hired. I believe we will see a much more cohesive organization going forward -- hell, the signs are already there with the refreshing absence of leaks from what was a dripping faucet. The bad news is that, as others have noted, the talent the Bills had assembled from 2014-16 may have passed their window of opportunity and we still don't have a proven answer at QB. McDermott and staff may be fantastic and the Bills will still be mediocre. Great post eball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 "Whaley" and "productive draft?" The GM seems to be in win-now mode every year trying to prove everyone wrong that his method of spend big, trade picks, and not address the QB position will work. He's been successful because ownership actually believes Whaley knows what he's doing despite the results over the 4 seasons he's run the team. I agree with you 100% but this time of the year is when Bills Fans can actually cling to hope. We have a top 10 pick which I suspect would be worth quite a bit. There will surely be opportunities to gain picks for this and next years draft. Will Whaley take advantage of this? Will he stay put and address important positions? Like I said we can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) That's not true. Cowherd went off on the Bills for giving money to TT and compared it with the money they threw at Fitz. Something to the effect of they obviously don't know what they are doing. On that we can all agree. .Very interesting. I didn't know anyone wasted their time listening to the ranting of Colin Cowturd. I still believe TT contract was a great deal. If he isn't their guy going forward they can walk away clean. If they think they can win with him for now the salary number is reasonable and they can rework the cap hit to make it more favorable. Edited February 17, 2017 by Original Byrd Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Jim and Pat discussed how the team has a lot of holes to fill. Whaley has a mess on his hands. Pretty down on the Bills the entire segment. Which is why paying Tyrod to stay isn't really going to help this team at all. You can easily spend his cap hit on Foles/McCown (and end up with close to the same record with them as with TT) and use the difference to fill some of the roster holes (including either resigning Gilmore or letting him walk and maybe keep Woods instead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 So in a nutshell: Bills wrong to cut Tyrod or keep Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 It sure why it's a bad contract. If TT would have shown that he's a really good QB, we'd have a really good QB for a great price. If TT sucked, then we would've had the option to cut him. If we didn't sign him to any contract, he'd be a free agent and we wouldn't even have a choice but to match what the market dictated. I think was a great contract at the time considering all outcomes. it would've been amazing if he panned out. But he digressed a bit imo. Partly due to WR injuries. Partly due to the fact that he doesn't see guys running open and doesn't trust any WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Not surprised at Kirwan's take (I didn't listen but what I'm reading in this thread is what I expected). From the outside the Bills look like a mess. Kirwan has his favorites (Carroll) but I think he was lukewarm on Rex. He was beating the drum last offseason that the Bills needed to step up and pay Tyrod, but now comes back with this nonsense. During his visit to Bills training camp last year he also made mention of how many coaches the Bills had, and he always felt fewer assistants was better -- it was a clear red flag to him. For those criticizing Dareus' contract -- you must think contract negotiations are a one-way street. There's nothing horrible about that deal for a superstar player. Yes, there have been some off-the-field issues but I don't hold Whaley accountable for that. Those of us who follow things more closely aren't giving Whaley a free pass but we also realize that the last two HC were thrust upon him. This is the first time he has truly led the search and gotten his recommendation hired. I believe we will see a much more cohesive organization going forward -- hell, the signs are already there with the refreshing absence of leaks from what was a dripping faucet. The bad news is that, as others have noted, the talent the Bills had assembled from 2014-16 may have passed their window of opportunity and we still don't have a proven answer at QB. McDermott and staff may be fantastic and the Bills will still be mediocre. I don't want to hijack this topic but it relates to your comments. The attached WGR link is a discussion with Shopp and the Bulldog and Tyler Dunne. He talks about the qb situation and the status of the team and where it is heading. He thinks that the Bills are going to let TT go and start the rebuilding process. It's approximately 20 minutes long and it hits on a lot of topics that we regularly discuss. http://media.wgr550.com/a/118460468/2-17-bleacher-report-s-tyler-dunne-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I don't want to hijack this topic but it relates to your comments. The attached WGR link is a discussion with Shopp and the Bulldog and Tyler Dunne. He talks about the qb situation and the status of the team and where it is heading. He thinks that the Bills are going to let TT go and start the rebuilding process. It's approximately 20 minutes long and it hits on a lot of topics that we regularly discuss. http://media.wgr550.com/a/118460468/2-17-bleacher-report-s-tyler-dunne-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog.htm I just don't see how the Bills could think this will sell with the fanbase and with a number of very good players who are still in the prime of their careers. I don't think there is a "rebuilding process" in the NFL any more -- with the exception of perhaps Cleveland and Jacksonville, it really seems as though any team can make a few changes and become a playoff contender very quickly. Despite all of the Bills' shortcomings they have been just "on the fringe" of the playoffs for the last several seasons. I have no respect for Schoop and Bulldog. I like Dunne, but he's really just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 That's not true. Cowherd went off on the Bills for giving money to TT and compared it with the money they threw at Fitz. Something to the effect of they obviously don't know what they are doing. On that we can all agree. contract still isnt bad- right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 This is a 5-11 roster right now. I think it may be time to bring back the "Dinner's On Me, Smartass!" Competition. I'm not even done eating Valentine's Day candy, and we're already 5-11! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 This is a 5-11 roster right now. If they had a top qb, they be SB contenders. It's not really that complicated. That said, I hope we just go with a young qb who surprises or completely sucks. The last thing this team needs is another spin the wheels 7-9 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 That's not true. Cowherd went off on the Bills for giving money to TT and compared it with the money they threw at Fitz. Something to the effect of they obviously don't know what they are doing. On that we can all agree. Cowherd should have went off on the Houston Texans not the Bills because giving Oswilder that money was a terrible job by the GM . People this is not a bad contract for the Bills Face it guys TT was consistently missing wide open players for no reason at all. I had a chance to look at 13 games on all 22. If wasn't for his running we would shipped him out by the 3rd game. A QB can't keep missing that many wide open receivers , TE and backs. If they don't honor contract it will be due to his play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 it was a brilliant deal, gave them a year to assess TT. Now they have an opportunity to vote up or down. The only thing bad about it is they don't have a plan for if TT is cut, but everyone knew that last year ... it was, TT or nothing, but if TT's performance is just so-so, then they wouldn't be stuck with him ... it's all worked out according to plan.. the problem is he neither was great or sucked, so they don't have a clean decision criteria, plus they have a new staff. They will probably release him and be done with it. Restart with new coach, draft a QB, endure three years of suck, the usual rebuild model. ho hum, and back around the wheel we go. Have fun with that. I'll be on the golf course. You must be kidding! The Bills Should have let Taylor play last year at the last year of his current contract ($1.5MM), and then they could have franchised him this year if they still were not sure (~$22MM for 2017) with NO extended bonus or years to worry about. That way they could have had two years to really assess the situation. Instead, they paid him ~$9MM last year (totally unnecessary); and now have to make a decision which will impact the team for the next 4+ years with almost a $100MM impact). Idiotic! No reason to do so and is what I have been saying for over a year. That contract NEVER made any sense and should NEVER have been made. Another reason why we are looking at 17 (soon to be 18 years) without a playoff berth. Sad, but true!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I just don't see how the Bills could think this will sell with the fanbase and with a number of very good players who are still in the prime of their careers. I don't think there is a "rebuilding process" in the NFL any more -- with the exception of perhaps Cleveland and Jacksonville, it really seems as though any team can make a few changes and become a playoff contender very quickly. Despite all of the Bills' shortcomings they have been just "on the fringe" of the playoffs for the last several seasons. I have no respect for Schoop and Bulldog. I like Dunne, but he's really just guessing. Can you name me one NFL team that does not have a number of very good players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Can you name me one NFL team that does not have a number of very good players? I think I did in the original post -- Cleveland and Jacksonville. And I believe you're confirming my point -- everybody has talent and there is no "rebuilding" mode, so selling a "rebuild" to a fan base is a non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think I did in the original post -- Cleveland and Jacksonville. And I believe you're confirming my point -- everybody has talent and there is no "rebuilding" mode, so selling a "rebuild" to a fan base is a non-starter. Then our GM better figure out how to draft a QB because without one this cycle of mediocrity is going to go on and on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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