JohnC Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I'm still trying to figure out why an anti-Russian bias would be a bad thing. The flight risk to the KHL is a very legitimate thing. It's always going to be risk/reward with those players. The reward of a proven NHL defender in Kulikov is far more worth it compared to a young prospect or draft eligible player who has proven nothing yet. Now if an Ovechkin level player is there at your draft slot, you sure as hell are taking that guy. The risk of a Russian prospect staying in Russia and playing in the KHL is exaggerated. There is nothing wrong or damaging to the drafting team if the prospect stays a few years in the homeland. That isn't wasted time; it is the time used for development. If you drafted a player who is 18 yrs old and he stays in Russia playing that isn't wasted time. He is still playing, physically, emotionally and socially maturing. So when you get him a few years later (the same time frame for other prospects who stay in North America) you get a more finished product and a player who is more prepared to play. Take Vesey for example. He stayed four years at Harvard. He didn't waste his hockey development time while he was in school and playing at the college level. Each year he got better as a player and more mature physically, and now is ready to step in right away. My primary point is simple: Wherever the player is still will be used for player development. Most of these draftees, except for the top draftees, take a few years before they are ready. Whatever approach the player decides you still have to wait for the young player to develop into a man capable of playing at the NHL level. The Russian fear is much more diminished than it previously was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Rumours have it that Sabres are the lead horse for the big fish with expected offer in the $11-$12 mil range.twitter rumor that he will sign with Sabres 7/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 twitter rumor that he will sign with Sabres, Leafs, Bruins, Red Wings, & Islanders 7/1 Updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 @BuffaloSabres Just 88 days until our preseason begins! Game 1 will be at @penn_state. Details: http://bufsabres.co/L0VAZP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The risk of a Russian prospect staying in Russia and playing in the KHL is exaggerated. There is nothing wrong or damaging to the drafting team if the prospect stays a few years in the homeland. That isn't wasted time; it is the time used for development. If you drafted a player who is 18 yrs old and he stays in Russia playing that isn't wasted time. He is still playing, physically, emotionally and socially maturing. So when you get him a few years later (the same time frame for other prospects who stay in North America) you get a more finished product and a player who is more prepared to play. Take Vesey for example. He stayed four years at Harvard. He didn't waste his hockey development time while he was in school and playing at the college level. Each year he got better as a player and more mature physically, and now is ready to step in right away. My primary point is simple: Wherever the player is still will be used for player development. Most of these draftees, except for the top draftees, take a few years before they are ready. Whatever approach the player decides you still have to wait for the young player to develop into a man capable of playing at the NHL level. The Russian fear is much more diminished than it previously was. It's not so much that they stay over there after being drafted. The more common occurrence is them playing for a few years and then heading back. It might not be very common, but it happens much more with them than with anyone else. What's Gordie going to do, head back to Saskatoon after his ELC expires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Updated What is that, like 15 games each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The risk of a Russian prospect staying in Russia and playing in the KHL is exaggerated. There is nothing wrong or damaging to the drafting team if the prospect stays a few years in the homeland. That isn't wasted time; it is the time used for development. If you drafted a player who is 18 yrs old and he stays in Russia playing that isn't wasted time. He is still playing, physically, emotionally and socially maturing. So when you get him a few years later (the same time frame for other prospects who stay in North America) you get a more finished product and a player who is more prepared to play. Take Vesey for example. He stayed four years at Harvard. He didn't waste his hockey development time while he was in school and playing at the college level. Each year he got better as a player and more mature physically, and now is ready to step in right away. My primary point is simple: Wherever the player is still will be used for player development. Most of these draftees, except for the top draftees, take a few years before they are ready. Whatever approach the player decides you still have to wait for the young player to develop into a man capable of playing at the NHL level. The Russian fear is much more diminished than it previously was. When they're capable of paying a player $15M per year, I don't think you can look at them as a developmental league. The actual number of players leaving for the KHL doesn't paint the full picture either. Russian players love to use it as a bargaining chip during negotiations, and it is a strong one. What's Gordie going to do, head back to Saskatoon after his ELC expires? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) Wow, what is Edmonton doing? They traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson??? http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/taylor-hall-trade-nj-devils-oilers-adam-larsson-nhl-free-agency-rumors/26cy0kuycevx1t2vnd50opg97 Edited June 29, 2016 by ChevyVanMiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Wow, what is Edmonton doing? They traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson??? http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/taylor-hall-trade-nj-devils-oilers-adam-larsson-nhl-free-agency-rumors/26cy0kuycevx1t2vnd50opg97 I know they're starting to throw around the tag of "one for one deal", but there has to be something more going to Edmonton. This one would be the real life version of the "Crosby for Hodgson" rumors that young fans like think are possible. I know Larsson was very highly regarded coming into his draft, but he hasn't come close to living up to it yet. I can just picture Shero throwing that offer out there as a conversation starter and then dropping the phone when Chiarelli accepted it. TSN has a breaking news story at the top of their website saying that Stamkos is staying with Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) Canadians traded Subban for Weber lol. They are such fools. Edited June 29, 2016 by Commonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) JUST IN: As per @TSNBobMcKenzie, @RealStamkos91 staying with the @TBLightning #TSNHockey Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie 7m7 minutes ago Cancel the Stamkos Sweepstakes, he has decided to return to the Tampa Bay Lightning. #TSN http://www.tsn.ca/stamkos-to-stay-in-tampa-bay-re-sign-with-lightning-1.517913 Edited June 29, 2016 by ricojes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 JUST IN: As per @TSNBobMcKenzie, @RealStamkos91 staying with the @TBLightning #TSNHockey Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie 7m7 minutes ago Cancel the Stamkos Sweepstakes, he has decided to return to the Tampa Bay Lightning. #TSN http://www.tsn.ca/stamkos-to-stay-in-tampa-bay-re-sign-with-lightning-1.517913 I'm both relieved and disappointed. I would have loved to have had him, but the blood clots worried me greatly. Glad the Leafs aren't getting him. How about Subban for Shea Weber? What a crazy 30 minutes in the NHL this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I understand that Montreal had some cap issues with Subban's contract, but exchanging that for a little over $1 million in savings but taking on that 85 year contract that Weber has doesn't make much sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I understand that Montreal had some cap issues with Subban's contract, but exchanging that for a little over $1 million in savings but taking on that 85 year contract that Weber has doesn't make much sense to me. Something more than salary cap savings, the player-team and coach had rumors of a rift last season. Some of it went public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Something more than salary cap savings, the player-team and coach had rumors of a rift last season. Some of it went public. And the coach will be fired long before Subban gets to the end of his contract. Hell, I think they'll still be paying Weber after half their current players are retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Man, how anti-climatic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Wow, Edmonton. And wow, Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 It is difficult to get an exact reading of what the stats actually reflect because as you noted who you are on the ice with and when are factos. But the stats are broken down into great detail. The stats do indicate that when on the ice with Eichel, one of our best scorers, Eichel's numbers do go up. The bottom line in assessing Pysyk is that his plus/minus numbers are very good. It is very challenging to assess a trade until much later down the line. With the trade of Pysyk the Sabres moved up in the second round and drafted a player they felt was a first round value. It will be a couple or few years before we know how good he can be. In addition, I get the impression that the GM wants his defensemen to be bangers. That's certainly not the departed player's game. As Murray has repeatedly stated after making deals when trading for talent you have to give up talent. It's not about hustling anyone. It's about making deals that make your roster more balanced and better. They do. But how much of that is due to Pysyk & how much is due to Jack being on the ice against the other team's bottom lines (which are the guys Pysyk is normally on the ice against)? Probably more the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Wow the NHL has news today. Nj robbed Edmonton. Larsson is pretty good but not at halls level. With all these deals lately it seems GMs are putting a premium on D. Like rumors were Anaheim wanted buf #8 pick or MTL#9 for cam Fowler. Like rumors were Anaheim wanted buf #8 pick or MTL#9 for cam Fowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Does this mean no playoffs next year because losing out on Stamkos delays the plans until 2020? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Does this mean no playoffs next year because losing out on Stamkos delays the plans until 2020? No, we resigned Casey Nelson today, which pretty much negated the loss of Stamkos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 He hasn't been charged with anything and I don't believe they'll pursue misdemeanor charges for this allegation. That being said, it's not a good look by any stretch of the imagination. He really needs to stay away from these situations and grow up, there's still 3 months before the hockey season begins, (other than no charges being filed) I hope I don't hear his name until then... probably not in 3 months but wont be surprised if with in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sabres see big upside in new defenseman Kulikov He sounds pretty good from the article, so why is Mike Schopp so distraught over losing Pyseck ? The risk of a Russian prospect staying in Russia and playing in the KHL is exaggerated. There is nothing wrong or damaging to the drafting team if the prospect stays a few years in the homeland. That isn't wasted time; it is the time used for development. If you drafted a player who is 18 yrs old and he stays in Russia playing that isn't wasted time. He is still playing, physically, emotionally and socially maturing. So when you get him a few years later (the same time frame for other prospects who stay in North America) you get a more finished product and a player who is more prepared to play. Take Vesey for example. He stayed four years at Harvard. He didn't waste his hockey development time while he was in school and playing at the college level. Each year he got better as a player and more mature physically, and now is ready to step in right away. My primary point is simple: Wherever the player is still will be used for player development. Most of these draftees, except for the top draftees, take a few years before they are ready. Whatever approach the player decides you still have to wait for the young player to develop into a man capable of playing at the NHL level. The Russian fear is much more diminished than it previously was. it seems to me that acquiring guys who have done time is the way to go than to sit around and hope and pray that your guys develop when you can get guys who more developed and ready to go when they join the team. JUST IN: As per @TSNBobMcKenzie, @RealStamkos91 staying with the @TBLightning #TSNHockey Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie 7m7 minutes ago Cancel the Stamkos Sweepstakes, he has decided to return to the Tampa Bay Lightning. #TSN http://www.tsn.ca/stamkos-to-stay-in-tampa-bay-re-sign-with-lightning-1.517913 ... oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 He sounds pretty good from the article, so why is Mike Schopp so distraught over losing Pyseck ? Because all Schopp cares about in any sport is analytics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Because all Schopp cares about in any sport is analytics. So who is right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So who is right? I heard somebody say maybe both are. We get a left shooting Dman who is a little tougher.....And, they get an analytic darling in return...........I guess we'll find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I heard somebody say maybe both are. We get a left shooting Dman who is a little tougher.....And, they get an analytic darling in return...........I guess we'll find out. I heard somebody say maybe both are. We get a left shooting Dman who is a little tougher.....And, they get an analytic darling in return...........I guess we'll find out. As I said in a prior post the issue isn't who gets the better of the deal as it is does the deal make your team better. Edmonton just traded a talented young forward, Hall, for a good young defenseman, Larsson. From a talent standpoint most people would say that Hall was better than Larsson. But that wasn't the basis of the deal. Edmonton had an excess of forwards and a lack of defensemen. The opposite situation existed in Jersey, where they had a lack of scoring and less of a need for defense. So what the deal did for each team is balance out the roster. The same dynamic exits in the Buffalo trade with Florida. The Sabres needed a left handed shooting defenseman to possibly pair with Risto and the Panthers wanted a player who was a better fit for their analytical approach to the game. One way of looking at it is that it is a puzzle that requires a lot of shuffling to get the right pieces for the right location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 As I said in a prior post the issue isn't who gets the better of the deal as it is does the deal make your team better. Edmonton just traded a talented young forward, Hall, for a good young defenseman, Larsson. From a talent standpoint most people would say that Hall was better than Larsson. But that wasn't the basis of the deal. Edmonton had an excess of forwards and a lack of defensemen. The opposite situation existed in Jersey, where they had a lack of scoring and less of a need for defense. So what the deal did for each team is balance out the roster. The same dynamic exits in the Buffalo trade with Florida. The Sabres needed a left handed shooting defenseman to possibly pair with Risto and the Panthers wanted a player who was a better fit for their analytical approach to the game. One way of looking at it is that it is a puzzle that requires a lot of shuffling to get the right pieces for the right location. I agree to an extent--it's a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" situation. I do think, however, that NJ got the better of the deal, vis-a-vis Hall will make them better to a higher degree than Larsson will make Edmonton better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I agree to an extent--it's a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" situation. I do think, however, that NJ got the better of the deal, vis-a-vis Hall will make them better to a higher degree than Larsson will make Edmonton better. I was commenting in on how to assess trades from a general perspective rather than from a specific perspective. I absolutely agree with you that Jersey got the better talent and got the better of the deal. Hall is a tremendous talent. My problem with the deal for Edmonton is not trading a good player so much as it is could they have gotten more for this high end talent? It's still early in the trade market so the follow-up deals certainly can buttress the prior deals. Edmonton is trying to remake and re-balance their roster on the defensive side of the game. So even if they got less in return from Jersey the deal still can make sense because with their abundance of offensive talent and an increase in defensive proficiency they can become a better team, even with the departure of a better player and the arrival of a lesser player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I was commenting in on how to assess trades from a general perspective rather than from a specific perspective. I absolutely agree with you that Jersey got the better talent and got the better of the deal. Hall is a tremendous talent. My problem with the deal for Edmonton is not trading a good player so much as it is could they have gotten more for this high end talent? It's still early in the trade market so the follow-up deals certainly can buttress the prior deals. Edmonton is trying to remake and re-balance their roster on the defensive side of the game. So even if they got less in return from Jersey the deal still can make sense because with their abundance of offensive talent and an increase in defensive proficiency they can become a better team, even with the departure of a better player and the arrival of a lesser player. The extra pick or two they could have added in the deal sure would have helped with that roster re-balance though. If nothing else, it could have been trade fodder in their search for another defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 As I said in a prior post the issue isn't who gets the better of the deal as it is does the deal make your team better. Edmonton just traded a talented young forward, Hall, for a good young defenseman, Larsson. From a talent standpoint most people would say that Hall was better than Larsson. But that wasn't the basis of the deal. Edmonton had an excess of forwards and a lack of defensemen. The opposite situation existed in Jersey, where they had a lack of scoring and less of a need for defense. So what the deal did for each team is balance out the roster. That's also the reason Buffalo couldn't make a deal with Edmonton, they just don't have the depth on D... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's also the reason Buffalo couldn't make a deal with Edmonton, they just don't have the depth on D... There is still a lot of wheeling and dealing to do prior to the season. Can the Sabres sign Vesey? Is Osposo a reasonable option as a scorer? Would a a trade of Pysyk and Bogosian for Hall been a good deal for us or would it have created more holes to address? Is Murray going to keep Ennis and is he going to regain his scoring touch or is he simply currency for Murray to trade? Sometimes being patient and organically growing is better than getting impatient and forcing the issue on deals that in the short run appear to be appealing but in the long run set you back. Below is a WGR link of an interview with Kypreos discussing some deals. He offers a cautionary note on dealing for Osposo. http://media.wgr550.com/a/115815040/nick-kypreos-talks-subban-hall-and-stamkos.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Is anybody else "relieved" that Stamkos is now out of the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Is anybody else "relieved" that Stamkos is now out of the picture? I am, I wasn't totally on board with the idea of getting him, so I'm quite ok with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Is anybody else "relieved" that Stamkos is now out of the picture? I thought Toronto was the favorite, so I am thrilled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) I wonder what Patrick Kane would be worth in a trade right now. I'm seeing reports that the Sabres are shopping him. Edited June 30, 2016 by Johnny Hammersticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Evander Kane to be bought out by 5 pm today? http://sabreshockeycentral.com/2016/06/30/evander-kane-to-be-tradedbought-out/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Evander Kane to be bought out by 5 pm today? http://sabreshockeycentral.com/2016/06/30/evander-kane-to-be-tradedbought-out/ If they buy him out, that trade doesn't look too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 If they buy him out, that trade doesn't look too good. no, but it was off the ice issues. he was playing really well towards the end of last season. he did have questions about his character, but i wouldn't have predicted it be this bad. it will be a bad trade ultimately if he is released, but it should have a big asterisk next to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 no, but it was off the ice issues. he was playing really well towards the end of last season. he did have questions about his character, but i wouldn't have predicted it be this bad. it will be a bad trade ultimately if he is released, but it should have a big asterisk next to it... It's not like there weren't huge glaring signs. How many players get blackballed in the locker room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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