Sanjay Lal on the WR Corps

[Tenhigh]

 

Did I say anything that isn't factual? Because facts don't care about fan-hood.

 

There should be a safe zone, i.e. non-critical zone, created here on TBD. I beginning to think it's necessary for too many fans.

Maybe try changing your delivery? Seems like you have a lot of points you want to make, but they are often hard to read through the bile.

[Rocky Landing]

Here's one.

Good link. Thanks, Beerball.

[Mark Vader]

 

@RQUINN619

A Look at Hankerson, Little, Salas, Boykin & what each brings to #Bills #3 WR Battle http://buildingtheherd.com/commentary/bills-wr-battle/

 

 

Great read and analysis.

 

I think it'll be between Hankerson & Boykin.

[chris heff]

There is currently 13 WR on the roster, they probably keep 6. Watkins, Woods and Easly (if his knee is ok and because of ST) make it. That leaves 10 guys to compete for 3 spots. There has to be three guys that can contribute.

[NoSaint]

There is currently 13 WR on the roster, they probably keep 6. Watkins, Woods and Easly (if his knee is ok and because of ST) make it. That leaves 10 guys to compete for 3 spots. There has to be three guys that can contribute.

Easley is likely pup, no?

[3rdand12]

Easley is likely pup, no?

I would guess thats how Bills want to play it honestly.

 

I vote Salas comes out on top of the heap.

 

in some perverse way i am glad Sammy will miss practice time and the "others" get more reps

[ChevyVanMiller]

Keep your eye on this kid.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/05/28/bills-wr-davonte-allen-brings-toughness-dont-take-plays-off/

[What a Tuel]

 

Did I say anything that isn't factual? Because facts don't care about fan-hood.

 

There should be a safe zone, i.e. non-critical zone, created here on TBD. I beginning to think it's necessary for too many fans.

 

What exactly is a "who's who" of undrafted, or street free agents? Putting aside your obvious derogatory meaning behind the labeling of those pickups, let's go with it - who wouldn't qualify as one of those 2 categories at this point?

 

I think the sole answer is a trade?

Edited May 29, 2016 by What a Tuel

[3rdand12]

Keep your eye on this kid.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/05/28/bills-wr-davonte-allen-brings-toughness-dont-take-plays-off/

not sure i even knew he was in Buffalo.

Thanks for the enlightenment !!

[The Frankish Reich]

 

 

Hankerson issue is bad hands.

 

Long arms......good.......hands too far from brain.....bad.

 

He is a curious case because he otherwise has the ability to be a very good #2 WR.......more ability than Woods and more proven ability than Goodwin or Listenbee.

 

But if he's not in your top 3......and subsequently one injury away from a #2 role where he can get regular cracks at making big plays.......then he probably isn't in your top 6.

 

Doesn't offer a lot else and the last thing you want at the end of the bench is a guy with bad hands.

 

That guy needs to be like Salas who not only can play ST but who can come in and at least catch the few last-option passes that are thrown to him.

 

This is probably as good of a situation as Hankerson can ask for.........he needs to be on a shallow WR corps to stick.

 

Goodwin is the most talented WR on the roster not named Watkins......he is not only fast but has remarkable quickness and change of direction skills and adjusts to the ball and tracks it very well in the air ..but has done squat and shown no intention of committing entirely to football.......but he is in his walk year and if it's ever going to happen it's now.

 

It would be quite a story if someone like Little or Boykin turned into something special.......they are run-of-the-mill washouts that are much better athletes than football players.

Salas looks to me to be the best fit. Hankerson does indeed have bad hands ... but not as bad as Greg Little's hands. Check out this drop rate list from a few years ago (when both were getting serious playing time):

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stats-drop-rate/

 

That's Little as 5th worst, Hankerson 16th. These guys are gonna drive us nuts. Salas, on the other hand -- looks like a cheapo Hogan, which despite the hatin' on Hogan around here, isn't such a bad thing.

[Doc]

Salas looks to me to be the best fit. Hankerson does indeed have bad hands ... but not as bad as Greg Little's hands. Check out this drop rate list from a few years ago (when both were getting serious playing time):

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stats-drop-rate/

 

That's Little as 5th worst, Hankerson 16th. These guys are gonna drive us nuts. Salas, on the other hand -- looks like a cheapo Hogan, which despite the hatin' on Hogan around here, isn't such a bad thing.

 

Here's a great website for dropped passes: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/

 

Boykin is an interesting case. In 2013, his best season, he played in 16 games, starting 8, and had 49 receptions for 681 yards and 3 TDs. He was targeted 83 times and dropped 2 passes for a drop rate of 2.4%. However in 2014, he dropped 3 passes out of 12 targets. Now is his 2013 season more accurate, or 2014?

 

And at the least, I can see any of the veteran guys replacing Hogan's meager production. For something more than that, it will have to be one of the younger guys.

[Magox]

The 11 receivers beyond Watkins and Woods are a who's who of undrafted and street free agents. Little, Hankerson, Boykin, and Salas have all played or been a roster member for at least 4 teams, so expecting them to magically transform into a competent third option is wishful thinking. The remaining 7 receivers have done almost nothing in the NFL.

 

 

I think the odds of one of those guys breaking out and becoming a player of importance is pretty decent.

But we lost Chris Hogan, he's irreplaceable.

 

The vast majority of posters never insinuated that he was "irreplaceable", just that he was a good reliable, low-cost option that helped our team.

[NoSaint]

 

Here's a great website for dropped passes: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/

 

Boykin is an interesting case. In 2013, his best season, he played in 16 games, starting 8, and had 49 receptions for 681 yards and 3 TDs. He was targeted 83 times and dropped 2 passes for a drop rate of 2.4%. However in 2014, he dropped 3 passes out of 12 targets. Now is his 2013 season more accurate, or 2014?

 

And at the least, I can see any of the veteran guys replacing Hogan's meager production. For something more than that, it will have to be one of the younger guys.

I'm guessing when all is said and done his career drop rate falls much closer to 3% than 25%. How much closer, we will see.

[Ronin]

 

I think the odds of one of those guys breaking out and becoming a player of importance is pretty decent.

 

Based on what, specifically? I mean just "your thinking so?"

 

Seriously, what do you base this on?

 

Also, allow me to ask, suppose these players were on say Cleveland, would you be saying the same thing?

 

In fact, let's take Cleveland's WR cadre of crap and look at it as their roster currently exists:

 

Apart from Travis Benjamin, who had about the same type of season that Watkins had last year, they have Taylor Gabriel, Dwayne Bowe, Darius Jennings, Ranell Hall, Terrelle Pryor, and Marlon Moore.

 

Do you expect one of those players breaking out and becoming a player of importance too?

 

If so, what's your definition of "player of importance?" Seems to me that Hogan was of at least some importance last season as the prototypical type of player that catches most types of passes in this league, but everyone seems to be poo-poo-ing his loss.

 

Just curious your rationale here.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Based on what, specifically? I mean just "your thinking so?"

 

Seriously, what do you base this on?

 

Also, allow me to ask, suppose these players were on say Cleveland, would you be saying the same thing?

 

In fact, let's take Cleveland's WR cadre of crap and look at it as their roster currently exists:

 

Apart from Travis Benjamin, who had about the same type of season that Watkins had last year, they have Taylor Gabriel, Dwayne Bowe, Darius Jennings, Ranell Hall, Terrelle Pryor, and Marlon Moore.

 

Do you expect one of those players breaking out and becoming a player of importance too?

 

If so, what's your definition of "player of importance?" Seems to me that Hogan was of at least some importance last season as the prototypical type of player that catches most types of passes in this league, but everyone seems to be poo-poo-ing his loss.

 

Just curious your rationale here.

 

 

There is just as much chance that none of the players on the roster turn into contributors like Hogan as there is that one of them becomes a keeper.

 

I like some of the individual talents........speed on some.......size on others.........but you are right.......every team has a bunch of these guys with strengths but clear weaknesses.

 

But on the other hand......Gary Barnidge emerged out of nowhere last year and was extraordinary........it can happen..

 

And according to the NFL players that vote on the top 100 he is better than Sammy Watkins. All hail the top 100!

[John from Riverside]

 

 

There is just as much chance that none of the players on the roster turn into contributors like Hogan as there is that one of them becomes a keeper.

 

I like some of the individual talents........speed on some.......size on others.........but you are right.......every team has a bunch of these guys with strengths but clear weaknesses.

 

But on the other hand......Gary Barnidge emerged out of nowhere last year and was extraordinary........it can happen..

 

And according to the NFL players that vote on the top 100 he is better than Sammy Watkins. All hail the top 100!

I do wonder what the bills thoughts are as they are watching their players work OTA's with a little bit of cap to spend at the moment.......

 

It is a area of uncertainty......I wonder if they are eyeing June 1st cuts here

[Doc]

I do wonder what the bills thoughts are as they are watching their players work OTA's with a little bit of cap to spend at the moment.......

 

It is a area of uncertainty......I wonder if they are eyeing June 1st cuts here

 

They definitely will be eyeing June 1st cuts. BTW, you have a PM.

[Big Turk]

The 11 receivers beyond Watkins and Woods are a who's who of undrafted and street free agents. Little, Hankerson, Boykin, and Salas have all played or been a roster member for at least 4 teams, so expecting them to magically transform into a competent third option is wishful thinking. The remaining 7 receivers have done almost nothing in the NFL.

 

Buffalo needs to work Clay into the passing game because after Woods there's very little.

So much of a players success boils down to scheme fit, opportunity, being injured at the wrong time, proper coaching, and being asked to play to their strengths.

 

It's pretty impossible to simply say "Well, this player hasn't done anything, so he is going to suck."

 

Don't get me wrong, that is a distinct possibility, but with so many variables that go into a player being good at a role he is asked to fill, especially for a guy that isn't starting, its pretty silly to dismiss them out of hand. A few of these guys have had pretty decent seasons before with 500-700 yards, which would be plenty good for a #3 receiver especially one in this offense.

 

I'm more of the mindset that a lot of players don't get the opportunity to take advantage of and with more playing time there will be players who would surprise you. Could they make the pro bowl? Maybe not, but we aren't looking for that in a #3 and #4 receiver. We are simply looking for a few solid guys to move the chains now and then on 3rd down with reliable hands.

 

We are acting like there is a huge difference between most teams #3 and #4 WR and what we have, and I just don't buy it.

[3rdand12]

So much of a players success boils down to scheme fit, opportunity, being injured at the wrong time, proper coaching, and being asked to play to their strengths.

 

It's pretty impossible to simply say "Well, this player hasn't done anything, so he is going to suck."

 

Don't get me wrong, that is a distinct possibility, but with so many variables that go into a player being good at a role he is asked to fill, especially for a guy that isn't starting, its pretty silly to dismiss them out of hand. A few of these guys have had pretty decent seasons before with 500-700 yards, which would be plenty good for a #3 receiver especially one in this offense.

 

I'm more of the mindset that a lot of players don't get the opportunity to take advantage of and with more playing time there will be players who would surprise you. Could they make the pro bowl? Maybe not, but we aren't looking for that in a #3 and #4 receiver. We are simply looking for a few solid guys to move the chains now and then on 3rd down with reliable hands.

 

We are acting like there is a huge difference between most teams #3 and #4 WR and what we have, and I just don't buy it.

I think this scheme, Coaching fit and how young players are developed is a significant factor in what we see from team on the field. Another tick in the box for Coaching continuity ( i did not say rex ) The younger the player the better the chance for a uptick in performance of course. I am hoping one of the Kids steps up and takes off. and Salas will be the # 3

[Augie]

So, I skipped ahead....are we going to be OK?

[Ronin]

 

 

There is just as much chance that none of the players on the roster turn into contributors like Hogan as there is that one of them becomes a keeper.

 

I like some of the individual talents........speed on some.......size on others.........but you are right.......every team has a bunch of these guys with strengths but clear weaknesses.

 

But on the other hand......Gary Barnidge emerged out of nowhere last year and was extraordinary........it can happen..

 

And according to the NFL players that vote on the top 100 he is better than Sammy Watkins. All hail the top 100!

 

Again, what do you base this on besides merely you're saying so?

 

It can happen? Sure, it can happen, but what happens in a once in a hundred players scenario is hardly a 50-50 proposition as you just stated.

 

Based on recent history I'd suggest that it's highly unlikely that Woods can do much more than maybe 800-yards and a half-dozen TDs in a superb season for him as a slot WR, which he may not even be able to play if Watkins can't go.

 

I'd say that based on the same history of our current WRs coupled with historic NFL play of the "type" of WR that we have, namely track stars like Goodwin and Listenbee, it's highly likely that not one of those WRs posts more than 500 yards and a handful of TDs and that only because they'll be forced into a starting role.

 

Crappy WRs don't just blossom into top receivers on teams with OL issues, questionable and uncertain QB play, and on a team that has built its offense around the run.

 

Hogan was a contributor but not the type of receiver suited to Taylor's outside throw "talent," or should I say limited repertoire. He'll do much better in NE with Brady hitting him OTM if he gets a chance to play much. If he starts he'll post 800 yards.

 

Either way, we're going to need one of our WRs to step up to more than the 450 yards and 2 TDs that Hogan had last year if Watkins a/o Woods can't play all 16. That's 3/4 WR contribution. Right now we don't have a WR on the team after Watkins that's a bona fide starting 1 or 2 given Taylor's limited arsenal of throws. Treadwell would have been a great fit for him given that he's one of the WRs in this draft that has knack for catching contested balls in traffic. Instead we got a player that isn't even likely to contribute in any significant capacity this season if at all and only then if his shoulder heals quickly.

Edited May 31, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Keep your eye on this kid.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/05/28/bills-wr-davonte-allen-brings-toughness-dont-take-plays-off/

 

Here's hoping, 24.7 yds per catch is insane but makes me wonder if he is just another deep threat when we need someone over the middle.

So, I skipped ahead....are we going to be OK?

 

no ....

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Again, what do you base this on besides merely you're saying so?

 

It can happen? Sure, it can happen, but what happens in a once in a hundred players scenario is hardly a 50-50 proposition as you just stated.

 

Based on recent history I'd suggest that it's highly unlikely that Woods can do much more than maybe 800-yards and a half-dozen TDs in a superb season for him as a slot WR, which he may not even be able to play if Watkins can't go.

 

I'd say that based on the same history of our current WRs coupled with historic NFL play of the "type" of WR that we have, namely track stars like Goodwin and Listenbee, it's highly likely that not one of those WRs posts more than 500 yards and a handful of TDs and that only because they'll be forced into a starting role.

 

Crappy WRs don't just blossom into top receivers on teams with OL issues, questionable and uncertain QB play, and on a team that has built its offense around the run.

 

Hogan was a contributor but not the type of receiver suited to Taylor's outside throw "talent," or should I say limited repertoire. He'll do much better in NE with Brady hitting him OTM if he gets a chance to play much. If he starts he'll post 800 yards.

 

Either way, we're going to need one of our WRs to step up to more than the 450 yards and 2 TDs that Hogan had last year if Watkins a/o Woods can't play all 16. That's 3/4 WR contribution. Right now we don't have a WR on the team after Watkins that's a bona fide starting 1 or 2 given Taylor's limited arsenal of throws. Treadwell would have been a great fit for him given that he's one of the WRs in this draft that has knack for catching contested balls in traffic. Instead we got a player that isn't even likely to contribute in any significant capacity this season if at all and only then if his shoulder heals quickly.

 

 

Yeah......like I said, I agree about the wr corps after Sammy.

 

Someone might emerge.......but there is much reason to be dubious......they are a flawed bunch.......Listenbee is the only one without skidmarks on his resume and that may be just because he's brand new.

 

I'm not a big Bob Woods fan either.

[BillsBytheBay]

If Sammy plays 16+ games this year, I believe the depth behind Woods will be enough. I just don't like the idea of Woods being the #1 for any length of time.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

@MatthewFairburn

4 interesting things Bills WR coach Sanjay Lal said about Buffalo's receivers http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2016/05/4_interesting_things_bills_wr_coach_sanjay_lal_said_about_buffalos_receivers.html

 

 

 

What about Dez Lewis? Anything said about him? Or about Goodwin?

[Big Turk]

I think this scheme, Coaching fit and how young players are developed is a significant factor in what we see from team on the field. Another tick in the box for Coaching continuity ( i did not say rex ) The younger the player the better the chance for a uptick in performance of course. I am hoping one of the Kids steps up and takes off. and Salas will be the # 3

I could see Salas filling a David Nelson role...he is similarly built too

[John from Riverside]

I could see Salas filling a David Nelson role...he is similarly built too

That was the first thing I thought when I saw Salas catch a pass last year......David Nelson

 

Who we loved till he got hurt....rememeber?

 

He wont ever be Sammy Watkins.....but....who is?

[3rdand12]

I could see Salas filling a David Nelson role...he is similarly built too

I am fine with that honestly.

[Big Turk]

 

Again, what do you base this on besides merely you're saying so?

 

It can happen? Sure, it can happen, but what happens in a once in a hundred players scenario is hardly a 50-50 proposition as you just stated.

 

Based on recent history I'd suggest that it's highly unlikely that Woods can do much more than maybe 800-yards and a half-dozen TDs in a superb season for him as a slot WR, which he may not even be able to play if Watkins can't go.

 

I'd say that based on the same history of our current WRs coupled with historic NFL play of the "type" of WR that we have, namely track stars like Goodwin and Listenbee, it's highly likely that not one of those WRs posts more than 500 yards and a handful of TDs and that only because they'll be forced into a starting role.

 

Crappy WRs don't just blossom into top receivers on teams with OL issues, questionable and uncertain QB play, and on a team that has built its offense around the run.

 

Hogan was a contributor but not the type of receiver suited to Taylor's outside throw "talent," or should I say limited repertoire. He'll do much better in NE with Brady hitting him OTM if he gets a chance to play much. If he starts he'll post 800 yards.

 

Either way, we're going to need one of our WRs to step up to more than the 450 yards and 2 TDs that Hogan had last year if Watkins a/o Woods can't play all 16. That's 3/4 WR contribution. Right now we don't have a WR on the team after Watkins that's a bona fide starting 1 or 2 given Taylor's limited arsenal of throws. Treadwell would have been a great fit for him given that he's one of the WRs in this draft that has knack for catching contested balls in traffic. Instead we got a player that isn't even likely to contribute in any significant capacity this season if at all and only then if his shoulder heals quickly.

 

Was the 450 yards a reflection of Hogan or how much we ran the ball and were among the lowest passing teams in terms of raw numbers in the NFL? Obviously more throws would equal more receptions.

[3rdand12]

 

Was the 450 yards a reflection of Hogan or how much we ran the ball and were among the lowest passing teams in terms of raw numbers in the NFL? Obviously more throws would equal more receptions.

Oohh that is an interesting question for all the Statistical folks to debate.

Compare the routes ran by Hogan and attempted passes to each route would be fun. How about that curl in for short of the chains ? Hard to get extra yards on those passes

[Mark Vader]

 

What about Dez Lewis? Anything said about him? Or about Goodwin?

This was about the new receivers on the Bills roster.

[Rocky Landing]

This was about the new receivers on the Bills roster.

I would love to know how Dez has developed from a season on the PS.

[Magox]

 

Based on what, specifically? I mean just "your thinking so?"

 

Seriously, what do you base this on?

 

Also, allow me to ask, suppose these players were on say Cleveland, would you be saying the same thing?

 

In fact, let's take Cleveland's WR cadre of crap and look at it as their roster currently exists:

 

Apart from Travis Benjamin, who had about the same type of season that Watkins had last year, they have Taylor Gabriel, Dwayne Bowe, Darius Jennings, Ranell Hall, Terrelle Pryor, and Marlon Moore.

 

Do you expect one of those players breaking out and becoming a player of importance too?

 

If so, what's your definition of "player of importance?" Seems to me that Hogan was of at least some importance last season as the prototypical type of player that catches most types of passes in this league, but everyone seems to be poo-poo-ing his loss.

 

Just curious your rationale here.

 

Based on their skill set, our need for an emerging 3rd receiver, past production the number of potential quality players that could fit the bill and my gut feeling. This is my opinion.

 

When I say a player of importance, yes someone like a Hogan. In my view Hogan was a player that positively impacted the team considering he was a low cost option. I think one of these guys through what will most likely be a very contested competition will emerge and become our third receiver.

[Punching Bag]

And will likely cost more than Hogan did last year.

[Ronin]

 

 

Yeah......like I said, I agree about the wr corps after Sammy.

 

Someone might emerge.......but there is much reason to be dubious......they are a flawed bunch.......Listenbee is the only one without skidmarks on his resume and that may be just because he's brand new.

 

I'm not a big Bob Woods fan either.

 

Obviously we agree, I was just curious how you got to your 50/50 comment? I'd say the odds of what you said happening are closer to slim to none. It's highly unlikely. If Sammy can't play I'd all but pencil us in for having one of the worst few passing offenses in the entire league.

 

I guess at that point we'd find out to what extent a largely rushing offense is capable of winning games. The problem with relying on rushing is that your D had better be tight, as in top-three tight. Once you get behind running the ball, without a passing game your fate is usually sealed. Everyone gets two drives a quarter after that, if that, and then it's time to sing "The Party's Over."

 

Was the 450 yards a reflection of Hogan or how much we ran the ball and were among the lowest passing teams in terms of raw numbers in the NFL? Obviously more throws would equal more receptions.

 

You really think we're going to throw more this season, than last w/ Taylor? If we're missing Sammy it'll be a cold day before that happens. I doubt it happens even if Sammy plays much.

I could see Salas filling a David Nelson role...he is similarly built too

 

That was the first thing I thought when I saw Salas catch a pass last year......David Nelson

 

Who we loved till he got hurt....rememeber?

 

He wont ever be Sammy Watkins.....but....who is?

 

We are talking about Greg Salas, the player that's been on 6 teams in 5 seasons, was released by both the Pats and Jets as two of them, who has played in only 27 games and has only 2 starts during that time, and that has averaged barely over 100 yards per season and that has not scored a TD in the NFL to date, aren't we?

[Maury Ballstein]

Hankerson > Hogan. Lock it down.

[....lybob]

OK just a guess but Watson, Woods, Easley for ST if back from injury- Hankerson as our speed take the top off guy, Dezmin Lewis as our size jump ball guy and Boykin as our tough hands guy- Listenbee and Allen on practice squad

 

Listenbee at around 6,1 180lbs sounds a little frail to make the team this year

[John from Riverside]

OK just a guess but Watson, Woods, Easley for ST if back from injury- Hankerson as our speed take the top off guy, Dezmin Lewis as our size jump ball guy and Boykin as our tough hands guy- Listenbee and Allen on practice squad

 

Listenbee at around 6,1 180lbs sounds a little frail to make the team this year

Except he is not 6'1 180 pounds

 

he is 6' nearly 200 pounds

 

Obviously we agree, I was just curious how you got to your 50/50 comment? I'd say the odds of what you said happening are closer to slim to none. It's highly unlikely. If Sammy can't play I'd all but pencil us in for having one of the worst few passing offenses in the entire league.

 

I guess at that point we'd find out to what extent a largely rushing offense is capable of winning games. The problem with relying on rushing is that your D had better be tight, as in top-three tight. Once you get behind running the ball, without a passing game your fate is usually sealed. Everyone gets two drives a quarter after that, if that, and then it's time to sing "The Party's Over."

 

You really think we're going to throw more this season, than last w/ Taylor? If we're missing Sammy it'll be a cold day before that happens. I doubt it happens even if Sammy plays much.

 

 

We are talking about Greg Salas, the player that's been on 6 teams in 5 seasons, was released by both the Pats and Jets as two of them, who has played in only 27 games and has only 2 starts during that time, and that has averaged barely over 100 yards per season and that has not scored a TD in the NFL to date, aren't we?

There was a time when Hogan was a cast off from Miami.....remember

[....lybob]

Except he is not 6'1 180 pounds

 

he is 6' nearly 200 pounds

 

just going on what the Bills have him list as - 6,1 183lbs

[3rdand12]

Be pleased to see Dez take a BIG step up.

Easley wont start the season i can imagine so someone gets that #6 spot

Salas will take the 3 or 4 spot imo

just going on what the Bills have him list as - 6,1 183lbs

damn medical staff cannot even get THAT right

 

aaarrgghh