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2016 Draft QB thread

Beerball

By Beerball
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Coach Tuesday Hall of Famer

Coach Tuesday

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@TyDunne

Cerebral Kevin Hogan could be the best fit for the #Bills at QB in the draft. He explains: http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/04/23/qb-smart-tested-kevin-hogan-best-fit-buffalo-bills/

Cgwt-OJUUAESJbS.jpg

 

 

Honestly, the fact that he already knows the offense bumps his value up significantly for me. I'd be ok with drafting him in Round 3 or even Round 2. The Bills have a history of grading QBs a round too low in terms of where they'll actually go. Time to inflate the value of the position on their board.

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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If they draft him with the idea that he will be a career backup, I hope he stays and they are fired at the end of this season.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree with your line of thinking then. I am not saying don't take a shot earlier if there is a guy you like, hell as long as it is Cook and not Lynch they could take a shot in round 1 and I wouldn't hate the pick. But if they are looking for someone at the back end of the roster to provide depth at the position, with a great work ethic and someone who is a serious studier of film then I think Hogan makes some sense. You obviously would never draft a guy like that which is fine.

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mannc Hall of Famer

mannc

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Why?

 

You know that teams need backup QBs right?

Correct. With a competent backup QB, the Bills may well have made the playoffs last year. A quality backup QB is probably worth more than a solid starter at any other position. On some teams, a quality backup is indispensable.
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Prickly Pete Veteran

Prickly Pete

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You know that teams need backup QBs right?

 

No, you just brought it to my attention.

I always thought teams carried only a single QB, because of that quote "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none".

 

But if they are expected to have more than one, I think they should bring in guys that expect to be starters, and let the best man win. I prefer a guy fall to backup, as opposed to rise to backup.

Edited by HoF Watkins
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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Don't take a chance. Take him in 5th or 6th or 7th if he's still there.

I'm not spending a 5th round pick on a QB that most are saying doesn't have a draftable grade. They don't have a 7th, so at best you're talking a 6th. If I'm using a 6th on a QB, it's going to be Doughty or Allen, not a 5'10" guy with poor field vision and flawed mechanics that holds the ball too long.

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Prickly Pete Veteran

Prickly Pete

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Posted (edited)

Correct. With a competent backup QB, the Bills may well have made the playoffs last year. A quality backup QB is probably worth more than a solid starter at any other position. On some teams, a quality backup is indispensable.

"Teams need a backup QB right?" - "Correct."

 

You must be a school teacher.

Edited by HoF Watkins
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CommonCents All Pro

CommonCents

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No, you just brought it to my attention.

I always thought teams carried only a single QB, because of that quote "if you have two quarterbacks, you have none".

 

But if they are expected to have more than one, I think they should bring in guys that expect to be starters, and let the best man win. I prefer a guy fall to backup, as opposed to rise to backup.

Right. Unless you have a future HOF QB in his prime your intentions should be to find improvements at QB. If your drafting a guy whose ceiling is below your current QB's floor you better have no holes on your roster and be buried in a surplus of picks.

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Prickly Pete Veteran

Prickly Pete

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Right. Unless you have a future HOF QB in his prime your intentions should be to find improvements at QB. If your drafting a guy whose ceiling is below your current QB's floor you better have no holes on your roster and be buried in a surplus of picks.

 

 

Just keep posting your blanket "opinions", backed up by nothing whatsoever. Makes for a great read.

 

"Commonsense" is having no problem understanding my point, but somehow you don't feel I'm "backing up" my point.

 

Here it is....I want them to approach the drafting of a QB as if they expect him to become the starter, not drafting a guy thinking "well, he doesn't really have the skills to be a starter, but he is good at everything else."

 

Tyrod is good, but the idea (to me at least) is to improve on what your starter. If there is a guy that they feel can become a better starter than Tyrod available when they pick, I want them to do it. They have gone too long without a quality starter, and they have had so few opportunities to select one, that they need to jump on it when it presents itself.

If there isn't a guy the feel will be better than Tyrod, stick with EJM, and either use a 6th/7th rd pick (I would rather it wasn't Hogan, but rather a "high risk, high reward" type), or get a free agent.

Edited by HoF Watkins
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mannc Hall of Famer

mannc

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That's well-stated, HOF Watkins, unlike your "Hogan sucks and would be a wasted pick" take. I partly agree and would love to take Cardale because of his unlimited ceiling and big body. But if you don't get him, I still think a more limited guy like Hogan makes a lot of sense because I put a lot of value on a Fitz/Frank Reich-type back-up QB. I think a guy like Driskell in the sixth or seventh is interesting too. And maybe Adams in that slot, or as a UDFA.

Edited by mannc
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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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The problem HOF Watkins is that your not a NFL Talent evaluator and dont have a clue how Hogan is gonna due on the NFL level.....

 

because MOST QBs fail (there might not be a single QB regardless of what round selected that ends up being a franchise qb) I am quite sure you sit on your perch and feel safe denouncing Hogan. Your chances of being proven wrong are not very good.

 

The problem is the other side of the arguement.

 

I am looking for a QB that can be groomed as a backup that does not take a premium pick to get......there are better players in rounds 1 - 3 that can make more immediate and needed contributions to this team......and in my opinion Hogan is a 4th round type guy.

 

Im not married to Hogan.....another QB will do...but Hogan DOES bring some things to the table

 

- Ran a pro offense

- Smart

 

- Athletic

 

 

His may very well be near his ceiling....or maybe he is not. The bills have been following him very closely and will know better.

 

Dont want him any earlier then the 4th round

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ALF All Pro

ALF

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Posted (edited)

Kirk Cousins 4th rd pick 102 after taking RG3 #2

 

Tyrod Taylor 6th rd pick 180 , there are no sure things in a lottery

 

Taking a couple years to develop a QB looks like the key to success

Edited by ALF
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machine gun kelly All Pro

machine gun kelly

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Agreed. Hogan, seems to be logical, but I'm fine with anyone in the 4th or later. I wouldn't want Prescott, or Hackenberg. I'm also not enamored with Jones. He just reminds me of a Jeff George who has a cannon of an arm, but makes bad decisions. Then again, I'm not an NFL scout so what do I know.

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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

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@MikeGarafolo

Vernon Adams continuing to say he's the No. 2 QB in the draft. On @dpshow, on him vs Goff: "There's nothing he's doing I can't do."

@nfldraftscout

@MikeGarafolo Gotta love his confidence.

@MikeGarafolo

@nfldraftscout You catch that interview just now? He's fired up. If nothing else, he sounds determined to show some people up.

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3rdand12 Hall of Famer

3rdand12

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Kirk Cousins 4th rd pick 102 after taking RG3 #2

 

Tyrod Taylor 6th rd pick 180 , there are no sure things in a lottery

 

Taking a couple years to develop a QB looks like the key to success

That's the key, but so many teams cannot wait. Hope the Bills find a QB who they know needs time but also think he has a starter ceiling.

The RG3 and Cousins i thought was crazy at the time. Now it looks very smart, to me

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KOKBILLS All Pro

KOKBILLS

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The problem HOF Watkins is that your not a NFL Talent evaluator and dont have a clue how Hogan is gonna due on the NFL level.....

 

because MOST QBs fail (there might not be a single QB regardless of what round selected that ends up being a franchise qb) I am quite sure you sit on your perch and feel safe denouncing Hogan. Your chances of being proven wrong are not very good.

 

The problem is the other side of the arguement.

 

I am looking for a QB that can be groomed as a backup that does not take a premium pick to get......there are better players in rounds 1 - 3 that can make more immediate and needed contributions to this team......and in my opinion Hogan is a 4th round type guy.

 

Im not married to Hogan.....another QB will do...but Hogan DOES bring some things to the table

 

- Ran a pro offense

- Smart

 

- Athletic

 

 

His may very well be near his ceiling....or maybe he is not. The bills have been following him very closely and will know better.

 

Dont want him any earlier then the 4th round

 

I have to admit to not being a big Hogan guy at the beginning of this process...

 

I've changed my opinion on him...And it's not just me...I think when you take the time to look at him, and what he's accomplished on the field...It's hard to ignore...When I was watching the RSP Scouting Film on Hogan Matt Waldman pretty much mirrored my initial thoughts on him...Career back-up... But after watching his tape, Waldman came away thinking better of Hogan...And so have I...And I do think he's a guy you can wait a little bit on...

 

The one thing I've noticed about Hogan is his pocket presence...He's not afraid to step up and take a hit in order to deliver the ball...He does not rattle easily...And I think this is such a key trait in an NFL QB...After you get the accuracy (over 65% in his last 2 years combined) and arm ability checked off (Hogan's arm is passable...Not the best but certainly good enough...) the next most important trait in a NFL QB, IMHO, is the ability to stand tall in the pocket and take the hit in order to deliver the ball...You see so many of these College kids come in looking great...Then they get knocked around a bit and wilt...And then it's over...I think Hogan is a tough-guy QB...He's a winner...He's smart (reported 38 on the Wonderlic), and he's coming out of a Pro system...His arm delivery is a little weird, but it's not a wind-up...he gets rid of it fast enough...And he's definitely athletic enough...

 

I've gone from wincing at the thought of Hogan to actually hoping the Bills Draft him...That's a long way to come... B-)

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2015/10/06/stanford-qb-david-hogan-a-study-in-pocket-presence/

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mannc Hall of Famer

mannc

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I have to admit to not being a big Hogan guy at the beginning of this process...

 

I've changed my opinion on him...And it's not just me...I think when you take the time to look at him, and what he's accomplished on the field...It's hard to ignore...When I was watching the RSP Scouting Film on Hogan Matt Waldman pretty much mirrored my initial thoughts on him...Career back-up... But after watching his tape, Waldman came away thinking better of Hogan...And so have I...And I do think he's a guy you can wait a little bit on...

 

The one thing I've noticed about Hogan is his pocket presence...He's not afraid to step up and take a hit in order to deliver the ball...He does not rattle easily...And I think this is such a key trait in an NFL QB...After you get the accuracy (over 65% in his last 2 years combined) and arm ability checked off (Hogan's arm is passable...Not the best but certainly good enough...) the next most important trait in a NFL QB, IMHO, is the ability to stand tall in the pocket and take the hit in order to deliver the ball...You see so many of these College kids come in looking great...Then they get knocked around a bit and wilt...And then it's over...I think Hogan is a tough-guy QB...He's a winner...He's smart (reported 38 on the Wonderlic), and he's coming out of a Pro system...His arm delivery is a little weird, but it's not a wind-up...he gets rid of it fast enough...And he's definitely athletic enough...

 

I've gone from wincing at the thought of Hogan to actually hoping the Bills Draft him...That's a long way to come... B-)

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2015/10/06/stanford-qb-david-hogan-a-study-in-pocket-presence/

Same here. Living on the West Coast, I have probably seen 25 Stanford games the past four years. I was not a Hogan fan after his first two years at Stanford, but he has improved a lot. I really like his toughness and the fact that he has thick, sturdy body that is able to take punishment. And I like his mobility/running ability, which I think is underrated. He would be a very good mid-round pickup for the Bills, or just about any team, for that matter.

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3rdand12 Hall of Famer

3rdand12

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Posted

 

I have to admit to not being a big Hogan guy at the beginning of this process...

 

I've changed my opinion on him...And it's not just me...I think when you take the time to look at him, and what he's accomplished on the field...It's hard to ignore...When I was watching the RSP Scouting Film on Hogan Matt Waldman pretty much mirrored my initial thoughts on him...Career back-up... But after watching his tape, Waldman came away thinking better of Hogan...And so have I...And I do think he's a guy you can wait a little bit on...

 

The one thing I've noticed about Hogan is his pocket presence...He's not afraid to step up and take a hit in order to deliver the ball...He does not rattle easily...And I think this is such a key trait in an NFL QB...After you get the accuracy (over 65% in his last 2 years combined) and arm ability checked off (Hogan's arm is passable...Not the best but certainly good enough...) the next most important trait in a NFL QB, IMHO, is the ability to stand tall in the pocket and take the hit in order to deliver the ball...You see so many of these College kids come in looking great...Then they get knocked around a bit and wilt...And then it's over...I think Hogan is a tough-guy QB...He's a winner...He's smart (reported 38 on the Wonderlic), and he's coming out of a Pro system...His arm delivery is a little weird, but it's not a wind-up...he gets rid of it fast enough...And he's definitely athletic enough...

 

I've gone from wincing at the thought of Hogan to actually hoping the Bills Draft him...That's a long way to come... B-)

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2015/10/06/stanford-qb-david-hogan-a-study-in-pocket-presence/

Takes a big Man to admit such things.

Well done, even if you are wrong. I have no idea who the QB should be, but Bills should pick one.

Nothing wrong with a change of heart.

:thumbsup:

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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

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@MikeGarafolo

Vernon Adams continuing to say he's the No. 2 QB in the draft. On @dpshow, on him vs Goff: "There's nothing he's doing I can't do."

 

@nfldraftscout

@MikeGarafolo Gotta love his confidence.

 

@MikeGarafolo

@nfldraftscout You catch that interview just now? He's fired up. If nothing else, he sounds determined to show some people up.

 

 

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