Kelly the Dog Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 First of all congrats on a pretty good game. But his problems as a WR still rear their ugly head. He has GOT to pick up the first down when he has the first down. He blew it, which led to the bad call on third and inches. You just can't do it. Another time he didn't fight for an extra yard and went out of bounds easily after a 9 yard catch. One play that bothered me, however, and something he always does that is not good, is on the 31 yard catch he made. He is wide open. The ball is there. But instead of catching it on the run, he slows down, turns sideways and jumps to catch it above his head, and then comes down and is immediately tackled. Most WR and all good ones pick up the trajectory, keep running, catch it without jumping and then try to avoid the tackle. It's possible that he could have even cut to the middle of the field and broke the tackle of the hard closing DB if he had just caught it on the run. I just watched it a dozen times. It's arguable that the pass was one yard short. But even if it was he still could have and would have caught it on the run with his hands without jumping and had a split second to put a move on the DB. He almost always stops and jumps to try to make a catch like that rather than just running and catching it and getting as many yards as he can. It's bothersome. Again, he did have a good game. But his awareness is still a glaring problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I was gonna make this topic. He's the anti-Edelman. Always finds a way to not get the first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 First of all congrats on a pretty good game. But his problems as a WR still rear their ugly head. He has GOT to pick up the first down when he has the first down. He blew it, which led to the bad call on third and inches. You just can't do it. Another time he didn't fight for an extra yard and went out of bounds easily after a 9 yard catch. One play that bothered me, however, and something he always does that is not good, is on the 31 yard catch he made. He is wide open. The ball is there. But instead of catching it on the run, he slows down, turns sideways and jumps to catch it above his head, and then comes down and is immediately tackled. Most WR and all good ones pick up the trajectory, keep running, catch it without jumping and then try to avoid the tackle. It's possible that he could have even cut to the middle of the field and broke the tackle of the hard closing DB if he had just caught it on the run. I just watched it a dozen times. It's arguable that the pass was one yard short. But even if it was he still could have and would have caught it on the run with his hands without jumping and had a split second to put a move on the DB. He almost always stops and jumps to try to make a catch like that rather than just running and catching it and getting as many yards as he can. It's bothersome. Again, he did have a good game. But his awareness is still a glaring problem. My exact thoughts as the play happened. Better situational awareness was needed in that instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) What you guys said. Unfortunately with Percy & Goodwin out, Hogan's role is elevated. Edited November 25, 2015 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 True, it's the same problems that haunted him last year. He's solid but JAG. They're going to need one or two WRs this coming off season in my mind to replace Percy and hopefully upgrade Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hogan has improved over the years and is mostly reliable. He never gives the game away with one horrible play, but his small mistakes add up to take their toll. I like him on our roster, though, I think he'll keep working hard to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Nit picking guys. He is a refreshing surprise and a reliable 3WR. Two words Special Teams!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Nit picking guys. He is a refreshing surprise and a reliable 3WR. Two words Special Teams!!!! Especially when he started the season as the #5WR,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hogan has improved over the years and is mostly reliable. He never gives the game away with one horrible play, but his small mistakes add up to take their toll. I like him on our roster, though, I think he'll keep working hard to get better. this is what I was thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Nit picking guys. He is a refreshing surprise and a reliable 3WR. Two words Special Teams!!!! Everyone went nuts over his special teams play last year. He finished the season with no tackles and one assist the entire season. This year he is way better and has three tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 What you guys said. Unfortunately with Percy & Goodwin out, Hogan's role is elevated. Add to the fact Belicheat is notorious for taking away what you want to do and forcing you to beat them with guys like Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 With the attitude of many WRs coming out of college, his is a nice breath of fresh air. Keep him around - at least he puts in the work. He's a depth guy forced to learn all the roles on the offense (Z,Y, Slot), and play special teams. He's also pretty big - which is good for a running team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 With the attitude of many WRs coming out of college, his is a nice breath of fresh air. Keep him around - at least he puts in the work. He's a depth guy forced to learn all the roles on the offense (Z,Y, Slot), and play special teams. He's also pretty big - which is good for a running team. Good post. He's a willing blocker. And good to have on your team. But as a #4 IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Good post. He's a willing blocker. And good to have on your team. But as a #4 IMO. He'll probably be fairly cheap for as long as we'll have him. Unless he has some sort of huge breakout campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) It's not his fault at all, but it continues to disgust me that under the Hackett and Roman regimes he seems to get almost as many targets as Sammy. As far as I'm concerned that's the only bad with Hogan. I think Hogan could do really good things if we got the ball to our real playmakers more often. This would open up things for our number 2 and 3 receivers, instead of them being used more like number 1's. Edited November 26, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 The good: A fine athlete, a hard worker and seemingly one of the good guys. The bad: His feel for this game is virtually non-existent. He might be the least instinctive receiver I have ever seen a ballfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 None of his mishaps were half as bad as the QB that was throwing him the ball. Twice he totally beat the defense and TT pissed his pants with the throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 If Corey Graham makes a tackle on 3rd down after Mario Williams chips the RB releasing into the flat, McKelvin doesn't fumble and Carpenter hits a field goal we win 16-13. Thanks in large part to Hogan's 5 grabs for 90 yards. Where is the crusade against these 4 higher level players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 If Corey Graham makes a tackle on 3rd down after Mario Williams chips the RB releasing into the flat, McKelvin doesn't fumble and Carpenter hits a field goal we win 16-13. Thanks in large part to Hogan's 5 grabs for 90 yards. Where is the crusade against these 4 higher level players? One thread where I start out saying "First of all congrats on a pretty good game" and ended on "Again, he had a good game..." is a crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 One thread where I start out saying "First of all congrats on a pretty good game" and ended on "Again, he had a good game..." is a crusade? Right but with that "Mario is awesome" thread going, I see how critiquing some of the finer points of hogans game is blistering harsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 One thread where I start out saying "First of all congrats on a pretty good game" and ended on "Again, he had a good game..." is a crusade? Then why even post this? The guy is a 3rd option and eclipses 90 yards? The critique of what he did on the 31 catch is invalid. He made the catch, period. I've watched the play 10 times he wouldn't have broke free, if anything going airborne saved him from getting clipped in the knees which saved him from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Then why even post this? The guy is a 3rd option and eclipses 90 yards? The critique of what he did on the 31 catch is invalid. He made the catch, period. I've watched the play 10 times he wouldn't have broke free, if anything going airborne saved him from getting clipped in the knees which saved him from injury. He saying its a consistent move he makes that is regularly unneeded. Which is true, frankly. It's no big deal to discuss faults guys have even after a decent game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Then why even post this? The guy is a 3rd option and eclipses 90 yards? The critique of what he did on the 31 catch is invalid. He made the catch, period. I've watched the play 10 times he wouldn't have broke free, if anything going airborne saved him from getting clipped in the knees which saved him from injury. It's something he does a lot. Not getting the first down when he can is something he does a very lot and it hurt us bad in this game. It's an elementary thing any decent WR does. Edited November 26, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Will Da'rick be able to catch up to Hogan at this point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It's something he does a lot. Not getting the first down when he can is something he does a very lot and it hurt us bad in this game. It's an elementary thing any decent WR does. 31 yards was not a first down? If you are referring to another play wasn't that based on the official determining where forward progress had stopped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhDozeBills Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 First of all congrats on a pretty good game. But his problems as a WR still rear their ugly head. He has GOT to pick up the first down when he has the first down. He blew it, which led to the bad call on third and inches. You just can't do it. Another time he didn't fight for an extra yard and went out of bounds easily after a 9 yard catch. One play that bothered me, however, and something he always does that is not good, is on the 31 yard catch he made. He is wide open. The ball is there. But instead of catching it on the run, he slows down, turns sideways and jumps to catch it above his head, and then comes down and is immediately tackled. Most WR and all good ones pick up the trajectory, keep running, catch it without jumping and then try to avoid the tackle. It's possible that he could have even cut to the middle of the field and broke the tackle of the hard closing DB if he had just caught it on the run. I just watched it a dozen times. It's arguable that the pass was one yard short. But even if it was he still could have and would have caught it on the run with his hands without jumping and had a split second to put a move on the DB. He almost always stops and jumps to try to make a catch like that rather than just running and catching it and getting as many yards as he can. It's bothersome. Again, he did have a good game. But his awareness is still a glaring problem. I'll add that for whatever reason, at the end of the 1st half when we were driving, he kept trying to get out of bounds to stop the clock when there was just under 2 minutes left. It was driving me nuts because we still had our time outs and plenty of time. I wanted that clock to keep running because you don't want to leave time for Brady. Of course the Bills leave 47 seconds and Pats drive for a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) 31 yards was not a first down? If you are referring to another play wasn't that based on the official determining where forward progress had stopped? No, stopping when running and jumping to catch the ball where he doesn't get any yards for the catch is something he does quite often. It's a bad habit and just wrong. Not getting the first down when he has a good chance at it because he is unaware of the first down marker is something he does all the time. This game he HAD the first down already then went backwards and got tackled. That was the play that preceded the dumb third and inches call and we have to give up the ball. If he just knows where the first down marker we don't even have third and inches. Edited November 26, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 No, stopping when running and jumping to catch the ball where he doesn't get any yards for the catch is something he does quite often. It's a bad habit and just wrong. Not getting the first down when he has a good chance at it because he is unaware of the first down marker is something he does all the time. This game he HAD the first down already then went backwards and got tackled. That was the play that preceded the dumb third and inches call and we have to give up the ball. If he just knows where the first down marker we don't even have third and inches. Woods had a ball stripped out fighting for extra yards earlier this year. Again one has to wonder if the coaching is asking them to do more after the catch or if they are told to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Woods had a ball stripped out fighting for extra yards earlier this year. Again one has to wonder if the coaching is asking them to do more after the catch or if they are told to go down.Did you watch the game? Woods fought like a deranged rhino to get the first down three different times and got it twice. The only time he didn't it took two guys and he was still fighting when the whistle blew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Woods had a ball stripped out fighting for extra yards earlier this year. Again one has to wonder if the coaching is asking them to do more after the catch or if they are told to go down. And that's the rub, if he had simply gone down on that one catch, he likely would have fallen into the first down. There was no need to run sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Everyone went nuts over his special teams play last year. He finished the season with no tackles and one assist the entire season. This year he is way better and has three tackles.So he has good speed, is tall, and can jump for the ball over shorter fellas (has good ball skills)? Maybe he is ready for a try at CB after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) The Hogan haters are back I see. Listen, of course he had to get the 1st down on that play which led to the 3rd and inches..... but Robert Woods has also been guilty of that this year on more than one occasion I didn't see a thread to follow hating on him for it. The guy is a good football player he is solid depth on this team and when his number is called he steps up time and again and makes plays. He has improved every season and he is reliable. And that is just talking about him as a receiver. He is a very capable blocker on the outside when needed - which is important in Roman's scheme and he plays special teams effectively. I predicted pre-season he would have more yards than the TSW darlings Goodwin and Harvin and here he is. And there they are..... on IR..... again. Do I want to see the team throwing the ball at Sammy more? Of course. But when Hogan has a favourable matchup - and he had Chung beaten on pretty much every play then I am all in favour of throwing him the football. In the list of people who might have cost us on Monday night Hogan is just about bottom of the list. But he is easy to hate on because he isn't a big name with a big salary or a big draft pick attached to him. EDIT: And of course some people entrenched themselves in the D'Rick v Hogan debate 3 years ago and refusing steadfastly to be moved he is "just a guy" and "dime a dozen".... because they said it then and they can't hold their hands up and admit that they got it wrong. Edited November 26, 2015 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Chris " nine yards" Hogan. The Hogan haters are back I see. Listen, of course he had to get the 1st down on that play which led to the 3rd and inches..... but Robert Woods has also been guilty of that this year on more than one occasion I didn't see a thread to follow hating on him for it. The guy is a good football player he is solid depth on this team and when his number is called he steps up time and again and makes plays. He has improved every season and he is reliable. And that is just talking about him as a receiver. He is a very capable blocker on the outside when needed - which is important in Roman's scheme and he plays special teams effectively. I predicted pre-season he would have more yards than the TSW darlings Goodwin and Harvin and here he is. And there they are..... on IR..... again. Do I want to see the team throwing the ball at Sammy more? Of course. But when Hogan has a favourable matchup - and he had Chung beaten on pretty much every play then I am all in favour of throwing him the football. In the list of people who might have cost us on Monday night Hogan is just about bottom of the list. But he is easy to hate on because he isn't a big name with a big salary or a big draft pick attached to him. EDIT: And of course some people entrenched themselves in the D'Rick v Hogan debate 3 years ago and refusing steadfastly to be moved he is "just a guy" and "dime a dozen".... because they said it then and they can't hold their hands up and admit that they got it wrong. woods rarely comes up short for the first when he's guaranteed to have it. Hogan has it then makes sure he doesn't get it. I don't have the exact number of times he goes 9 yards for the first but I'd guess it was over half of his receptions. Did you watch the game? Woods fought like a deranged rhino to get the first down three different times and got it twice. The only time he didn't it took two guys and he was still fighting when the whistle blew. This.Woods had a ball stripped out fighting for extra yards earlier this year. Again one has to wonder if the coaching is asking them to do more after the catch or if they are told to go down. they must be telling Hogan the same thing as the previous coaching staff because he didn't like getting first downs last year either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Chris " nine yards" Hogan. woods rarely comes up short for the first when he's guaranteed to have it. Hogan has it then makes sure he doesn't get it. I don't have the exact number of times he goes 9 yards for the first but I'd guess it was over half of his receptions. This. they must be telling Hogan the same thing as the previous coaching staff because he didn't like getting first downs last year either. Keep on hating. He should have got the first down on that play. No disputing that. But Woods HAS been guilty of the same this year - it is just this board loves to hate on Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) First of all congrats on a pretty good game. But his problems as a WR still rear their ugly head. He has GOT to pick up the first down when he has the first down. He blew it, which led to the bad call on third and inches. You just can't do it. Another time he didn't fight for an extra yard and went out of bounds easily after a 9 yard catch. One play that bothered me, however, and something he always does that is not good, is on the 31 yard catch he made. He is wide open. The ball is there. But instead of catching it on the run, he slows down, turns sideways and jumps to catch it above his head, and then comes down and is immediately tackled. Most WR and all good ones pick up the trajectory, keep running, catch it without jumping and then try to avoid the tackle. It's possible that he could have even cut to the middle of the field and broke the tackle of the hard closing DB if he had just caught it on the run. I just watched it a dozen times. It's arguable that the pass was one yard short. But even if it was he still could have and would have caught it on the run with his hands without jumping and had a split second to put a move on the DB. He almost always stops and jumps to try to make a catch like that rather than just running and catching it and getting as many yards as he can. It's bothersome. Again, he did have a good game. But his awareness is still a glaring problem. On the play with less than 2 minutes to go in the first half where he goes out of bounds, him not getting the first wasn't the issue there (although he should have); it was him NOT STAYING IN BOUNDS! I was yelling at the tv for him to stay in because plays like that meant that the Pats would get another chance to move the ball down the field. Which they did. Poor clock management. It may sound strange, but if you have your TOs and are in the opponent's territory with roughly 2 minutes to go, you've gotta be aware enough to kow that you should be milking the clock and not working to save time. He had a good game overall though, and he's a good player. I'm glad he's on the Bills. Edited November 26, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It's something he does a lot. Not getting the first down when he can is something he does a very lot and it hurt us bad in this game. It's an elementary thing any decent WR does.Clay does something similar. He runs patterns just short of first down yardage far too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'll add that for whatever reason, at the end of the 1st half when we were driving, he kept trying to get out of bounds to stop the clock when there was just under 2 minutes left. It was driving me nuts because we still had our time outs and plenty of time. I wanted that clock to keep running because you don't want to leave time for Brady. Of course the Bills leave 47 seconds and Pats drive for a TD.this too. His awareness is beyond terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'll add that for whatever reason, at the end of the 1st half when we were driving, he kept trying to get out of bounds to stop the clock when there was just under 2 minutes left. It was driving me nuts because we still had our time outs and plenty of time. I wanted that clock to keep running because you don't want to leave time for Brady. Of course the Bills leave 47 seconds and Pats drive for a TD. Yes! this too. His awareness is beyond terrible He's not perfect, but he's a pretty good player who gets open and runs good routes. He's the least of the Bills' problems on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Keep on hating. He should have got the first down on that play. No disputing that. But Woods HAS been guilty of the same this year - it is just this board loves to hate on Hogan. when woods does it consistently I'll complain. Hogan does it on almost every play were he catches the ball near the marker(a majority of his catches). He is a very below average receiver that only gets catches because he's so bad the defense doesn't bother to cover him. I don't understand how people can defend him and think he will get better. He's been a yard short his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyDogLuvsPB Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Nit picking guys. He is a refreshing surprise and a reliable 3WR. Two words Special Teams!!!! Totally agree! TT didn't have his best accurate night with the football. That one "TD" toss to Shady early in the game had too much arc to it or he threw it too late. It should've been a TD. It's not just about the WR's not making adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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