PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Brady will play for 10 more years and win 3 more super bowls unless Aaron Rodgers can beat him during that time, hes the only one. I am hoping Andy Dalton finds a way to play mistake free football, otherwise NE will walk into the Superbowl. Look at their schedule... there is no one who is going to challenge them aside from the Bengals in a playoff game. They will go undefeated unless they screw it up. Their opponent will not win, the pas will lose and no credit will be given to the other team anyway. NE has the best three people in the game. Gronk, Brady, Belicheck, in that order. No one has figured out how to stop it yet. Corners cant tackle gronk. LBs are too slow to cover go routes. Now excuse me while I go get my free DD coffee, because when the Patriots win, I win at Dunkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Man, do I really have to log onto a Bills' board to see a thread titled, "New England; Greatest Franchise Ever." Just come to my house and kick me in the balls already. Almost as hard to swallow is the incorrect use of a semicolon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Bills Fan Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I hate to admit but New England just might be the best football franchise ever. I can't think of team that has been this dominant for this long as them. I now they cheated but you still have to make the plays on the field and that they have done. 6 Superbowl appearances 4 wins, division champs almost every year for 15 yrs against a league built on parity is unprecedented . I'm going to take an unpopular position here ... since you "now" that the Pat's cheated -- can you explain how they did that? And if ball inflation is such a big deal, why has Brady thrown 20 TDS with one fluky pick with balls that are probably measured every 10 mins? Spygate didn't make a difference, and neither did the ball inflation. The Pats just have a brilliant coach WHO KNOWS THE RULES and COACHES HIS PLAYERS TO KNOW THE RULES. Look at the brilliant eligibility plays last playoffs as an example. Rather than jealous fans repeatedly trashing this franchise, how about striving to be more like them? They are a model franchise. So stop with the "cheating" stuff ... it just makes you look like a sore loser. Just build a better team. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) The Patriots right now are light years above any other NFL team in history. Better than the greatest teams of all time. They win more than any other team with a QB that defies the ravages of time. The usual cycles of dominance and rebuilding do not apply to them. You can stare blankly and say golly gee, or ask how can one franchise totally dominate all of NFL history? You can also consider that no team has ever had the dubious cloud of mistrust over it. Perhaps there in lies the answer? Edited October 30, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWei44 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Even with cheating allegations, they are still the best. That's the annoying part... they don't need to cheat to win, but the culture is so obsessive, that they do. This ^^ Their legacy is and will be a bit tarnished but clearly they would have done real well even without all the "____"-Gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I still say that because they've been caught cheating and been continually accused of little things here and there to gain advantages, you can't help but wonder what are they doing now that is illegal. How are Gronkowski & Edelman open on every single play? When will they not be able to get away with the WR picks? How does Brady never get touched (either sacked or hit as he throws)? How do they keep making other elite teams look like Pop Warner teams? There are so many questions around this franchise that I can't yet call them the greatest franchise ever. Perhaps a dynasty since 2001, but even that is under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The 1950s Cleveland Browns say hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They are the greatest ever. Brady is the best ever. Belicheck is the best ever. It's laughable to think they're the only organization to break the rules. They're just better. At everything. What makes their accomplishments even more stunning is that they have accomplished most of their achievements in a cap system that promotes parity. Their owner went out and signed Belichick as the HC. He had to give up a first round pick for signing him away from the Jets. It was well worth the expenditure. He is going down as the best HC in the history of the game as Brady is going down as the best qb in the history of the game. (As you noted.) Do you think that a Bob Kraft would bring in an out of touch Marv Levy to run his football operation? Do you think that Bob Kraft would bring in a buffoon like Rex Ryan to be his HC? What sets the Patriots apart is not the money they throw around to acquire talent because that is not how they operate. They are very prudent/cold blooded with the way they handle contracts. Their roster is constantly being turned over and yet they still win. They have a system, believe in it, and adhere to it. While losers are busy making excuses for themselves and making excuses for why the Pats win they simply don't care. They just continue to add to their already crowded trophy case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I hate to admit but New England just might be the best football franchise ever. I can't think of team that has been this dominant for this long as them. I now they cheated but you still have to make the plays on the field and that they have done. 6 Superbowl appearances 4 wins, division champs almost every year for 15 yrs against a league built on parity is unprecedented . Real nice. Because of you, I just yelled at my secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm going to take an unpopular position here ... since you "now" that the Pat's cheated -- can you explain how they did that? And if ball inflation is such a big deal, why has Brady thrown 20 TDS with one fluky pick with balls that are probably measured every 10 mins? Spygate didn't make a difference, and neither did the ball inflation. The Pats just have a brilliant coach WHO KNOWS THE RULES and COACHES HIS PLAYERS TO KNOW THE RULES. Look at the brilliant eligibility plays last playoffs as an example. Rather than jealous fans repeatedly trashing this franchise, how about striving to be more like them? They are a model franchise. So stop with the "cheating" stuff ... it just makes you look like a sore loser. Just build a better team. That's it. I'll go back to a link I posted yesterday in the Thursday Night Football thread: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/upshot/so-whats-the-patriots-secret-to-success.html?_r=0 They're smarter than us. Not just football smarter. Higher IQ smarter. Liberal arts or high education? Belichick is a graduate of Wesleyan. Matt Patricia, perhaps the league’s smartest defensive coordinator, graduated from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. The owner Robert Kraft graduated from Columbia; and Jonathan Kraft, president of the team, from Williams. Belichick and the Patriots’ research director, Ernie Adams, met at Phillips Academy; Adams went on to Northwestern. Dallas Coach Jason Garrett went to Princeton, and Pittsburgh Coach Mike Tomlin to William & Mary — there are more well-educated personnel in N.F.L. management than might be guessed. But the Patriots are the top team in this regard. Long time Bills fans will remember our glory days in the 1990s when people joked about Marv Levy and his Harvard degree. Well ... How is it that the Patriots consistently -- year after year after year -- have drafted well after us, yet they seem to replenish the talent without missing a beat? That shouldn't happen. Brady doesn't play defense, yet look at how the Pats defense is performing this year. I hate them. I'm envious of them. Those are related thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'll go back to a link I posted yesterday in the Thursday Night Football thread: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/upshot/so-whats-the-patriots-secret-to-success.html?_r=0 They're smarter than us. Not just football smarter. Higher IQ smarter. Long time Bills fans will remember our glory days in the 1990s when people joked about Marv Levy and his Harvard degree. Well ... How is it that the Patriots consistently -- year after year after year -- have drafted well after us, yet they seem to replenish the talent without missing a beat? That shouldn't happen. Brady doesn't play defense, yet look at how the Pats defense is performing this year. I hate them. I'm envious of them. Those are related thoughts. It ain't rocket science. When you have Tom Brady, EVERYTHING else is easier. Eliminate Tom Brady, you eliminate the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) How is it that the Patriots consistently -- year after year after year -- have drafted well after us, yet they seem to replenish the talent without missing a beat? That shouldn't happen. Brady doesn't play defense, yet look at how the Pats defense is performing this year. I hate them. I'm envious of them. Those are related thoughts. They never ever have to worry about drafting or finding a QB, or worry about who is going to be the head coach next year. Theyre DC and OC have also been on board for a long time. I think McDaniels could easily get a head coaching job somewhere else. He doesnt want it. He likes to win. He likes to Tom Brady. He likes coaching and learning under BB. Sure they have change and constantly bring in rookies who do great. But they never change the two most important parts. HC and QB. Those two guys make everyone around them look better. Edited October 30, 2015 by PortlandiaEast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 steelers went 8 times with 6 wins, right? That was when the free agency rules allowed teams to stay intact easier. Yes, they have to be in the conversation, but I'd have to give the nod to the Pats*** for the extended domination period. Don't worry, even Rome fell..... (Rome probably cheated too, but I'm a lttle too young to remember.) You can stare blankly and say golly gee, or ask how can one franchise totally dominate all of NFL history? You can also consider that no team has ever had the dubious cloud of mistrust over it. Perhaps there in lies the answer? Yes, perhaps indeed! Wouldn't it be sweet to have it ALL exposed? There's a lot more than we know of, I'm certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) So the choice is rant on about it or play along. Practical thinking dictates you play the game in the way the system is designed. Better choice is to work tirelessly to clean it up. That you don't have that on your mental list is a character flaw - the fact that it's an all-too-common flaw makes it no less so. Pats* legacy is permanently tainted, and no discussion of the (clearly measurable) greatness of their accomplishments will ever be free of that asterisk. Edited October 30, 2015 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The thing is Miami played pretty well on D for the first half yet they still quickly got right up to 30 pts. The only way to beat them is to play an almost perfect game on defense (Which will hold them to 15 points per half) and a perfect game on offense. Zero turnovers, and score 7's almost every time you are across the 50. Anything less and you are going to lose. The Bengals might be able to lose to them 37-30 in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Better choice is to work tirelessly to clean it up. That you don't have that on your mental list is a character flaw - the fact that it's an all-too-common flaw makes it no less so. Pats* legacy is permanently tainted, and no discussion of the (clearly measurable) greatness of their accomplishments will ever be free of that asterisk. And in the meantime what? They're still 2nd or third in all time Superbowls won. Meanwhile, our "good guys" have zero to show for being "good guys." But hey, we have no asterisks! Edited October 30, 2015 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sadly the AFC looks completely pathetic.... Also, the only two teams that MIGHT be able to give them a game in the playoffs (Denver and Cincinnati) will probably have to play each other first for the honor of going there and getting demolished while they get a 2nd bye vs Indy or Pittsburgh again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They never ever have to worry about drafting or finding a QB, or worry about who is going to be the head coach next year. Theyre DC and OC have also been on board for a long time. I think McDaniels could easily get a head coaching job somewhere else. He doesnt want it. He likes to win. He likes to Tom Brady. He likes coaching and learning under BB. Sure they have change and constantly bring in rookies who do great. But they never change the two most important parts. HC and QB. Those two guys make everyone around them look better. Check that….This has already happened when he ran Denver into the ground . Cause for even more speculation about "The Patriot Way" when McDaniels and Pioli fell flat on their faces after all that success in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I'm going to take an unpopular position here ... since you "now" that the Pat's cheated -- can you explain how they did that? And if ball inflation is such a big deal, why has Brady thrown 20 TDS with one fluky pick with balls that are probably measured every 10 mins? I am not saying its the balls, but the real effect underinflated balls would have is in cold weather games and wet games...of which they have had neither. I don't think it will make a difference, just saying What makes their accomplishments even more stunning is that they have accomplished most of their achievements in a cap system that promotes parity. Their owner went out and signed Belichick as the HC. He had to give up a first round pick for signing him away from the Jets. It was well worth the expenditure. He is going down as the best HC in the history of the game as Brady is going down as the best qb in the history of the game. (As you noted.) Do you think that a Bob Kraft would bring in an out of touch Marv Levy to run his football operation? Do you think that Bob Kraft would bring in a buffoon like Rex Ryan to be his HC? What sets the Patriots apart is not the money they throw around to acquire talent because that is not how they operate. They are very prudent/cold blooded with the way they handle contracts. Their roster is constantly being turned over and yet they still win. They have a system, believe in it, and adhere to it. While losers are busy making excuses for themselves and making excuses for why the Pats win they simply don't care. They just continue to add to their already crowded trophy case. Lets not forget one very important point here...they have the best player at the most t important position by far in sports, and he is #14 in terms of pay for QBs...cause his wife makes $50M a yea. .Makes a huge difference in paying the middle guys. Not saying they are not smarter with their money, but i dont think Brady gives a 50% home team discount without that other income. They never ever have to worry about drafting or finding a QB, or worry about who is going to be the head coach next year. T And yet they have drafted more QB's than the Bills over the Brady years. Edited October 30, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 And yet they have drafted more QB's than the Bills over the Brady years. Not out of necessity. Check that….This has already happened when he ran Denver into the ground . Cause for even more speculation about "The Patriot Way" when McDaniels and Pioli fell flat on their faces after all that success in the system. BB had his failures as a headcoach as well. So did Pete Carrol. You think a failure as a headcoach on one teams is the end of their line? Please... I am sure there are several teams who would welcome McDaniels with open arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Not out of necessity. Exactly my point. Bills have not had a QB in close to 20 years...Most important position in all of sports, you cant win big without an elite one, you don't have one, draft one every friggen year!!!! Pats have the best ever and draft Garropolo, Mallet, etc.. Edited October 30, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Exactly my point. Bills have not had a QB in close to 20 years...Most important position in all of sports, you cant win big without an elite one, you don't have one, draft one every friggen year!!!! Pats have the best ever and draft Garropolo, Mallet, etc.. Got it. Yeah imagine if they had spent those draft pics to add depth at other positions... I have also heard rumors of brady willing to take pay cut after pay cut to keep more money available for other positions of need. Edited October 30, 2015 by PortlandiaEast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Check that.This has already happened when he ran Denver into the ground . Cause for even more speculation about "The Patriot Way" when McDaniels and Pioli fell flat on their faces after all that success in the system. Also remember that in Denver as he started his decline McD got caught filming an opponent's practice and the guy doing the filming was Steve Scarnecchia, Dante's son (Dante was the longtime O-line coach for the Pats*). This stuff writes itself. Birds of a crooked feather tend to flock together in New England*. As others note, it makes it hard to judge their accomplishments when they've been caught repeatedly cheating. Makes you wonder what we don't yet know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I hate to admit but New England just might be the best football franchise ever. I can't think of team that has been this dominant for this long as them. I now they cheated but you still have to make the plays on the field and that they have done. 6 Superbowl appearances 4 wins, division champs almost every year for 15 yrs against a league built on parity is unprecedented . I will try to keep this in mind as they get their hand caught in the cookie jar cheating time and time and time again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I’m on board with this suggestion. I don’t have time to run any analysis but the fact that this team has been this good for this long suggests they’re in the discussion. In the Tom Brady era, this team is 177-54. In 14 full seasons, they have 13 double-digit win seasons and average 12 wins a year. This year will make it 14 out of 15. To put it in Bills perspective, our beloved Bills have 13 in their entire history! The Bills best 14-year stretch, 1987-2000, they were 139-84, just a shade under 10 wins per season on average. And just because someone mentioned the Steelers, I looked at their records too. In the 1970s, their glory years, over their best 14 year stretch, they compiled a 137-67 record from 1972-1985. The Steelers had more losses in fewer games than the Pats. To standardize for comparison purposes because of 14-game seasons, the win percentages here are: Pats-79%; Bills-62%; Steelers-67%. The only two teams, I think from a quick review, that are close are the 80s-90s 49ers and the Cowboys in the late 60s and into the 70s. The 49ers actually had a nice 18 year run when they had a winning percentage 74% (207-72) and their best 14 year stretch was 166-56 for a winning percentage of 75%. Both these teams over their best 14 years still had a winning percentage below the Pats. Now everyone wants to now say “See, the 49ers did it for 18 years.” True but I have to responses to that argument. The first, the Pats aren’t done. This is year 15 and they’ll at a minimum keep the wining percentage around 80% (that’s a simple 12-4 record this year, meaning they go 5-4 the rest of the way, not happening). The second is the term “dynasty” implies power and control for a long period of time. Translate that to football and it means winning and winning championships over a long period of time. For these teams, no one had a longer stretch between their first and last Super Bowls. The Pats won it in 2001 (Brady’s first year) and again in 2014, so their first and 14th seasons. The best the was the 49ers who had 12 seasons as a run. An early post stated to go back and look at the dinosaurs like Otto Graham. Great, you can do that and try to compare eras. But that was an era with less teams and players who were drastically less skilled than today’s players. It’s like arguing that the Model T is the best car ever because it had a larger market share in its time than other cars. It doesn’t hold up. These QBs total, all of them, are more physically gifted, in shape, and year round athletes than they were then. The game is way more complicated now than then, on both sides of the ball. Players are faster and the game happens faster. So guys like Brady have to be not just physically gifted but I have always argued intellectually gifted. They have to both process and execute faster and faster. There’s just no comparison that you can make that suggests Otto Graham or anyone of prior eras were better QBs than Brady until you get into the 1980s. Even then, Brady is better than everyone from Montana to Young to Aikman to Manning. He just is. That’s doesn’t sit well with Bills fans (I am one) because he destroys this team annually, but the fact remain indisputable. At 38, he’s better than Kelly was in his prime. Those that want to suggest cheating has something to do with it, I don’t dismiss that out of hand. Many want, no need, that narrative to help them cope. You still want to believe it to help you distance yourself from the reality that is this team, coach, owner, and QB. Gronk is open all the time not because of cheating, as someone wondered early, he’s open because he’s awesome and their scheme is awesome and he gets the ball because their QB is awesome. What matters above all else is execution. What you see week in and week out right now is precise execution. The perception of cheating, or reality, can't overcome what we see. Guys have to block, run, get open, and throw the ball. That still matters right? Edited October 30, 2015 by zonabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sometimes when a team is as dominant as the Pats are, the only viable explanation for it is to assume shenanigans are what is responsible for the outcome. So, we get accusations of cheating, not just by fans of other teams but also by the owners of other teams. This gives rise to instances such as deflategate. In reality, the explanation is staring these people right in the face. The reason why such domination has taken place is because the team doing the domination have the 3 most dominant people in the game, at the 3 most important positions, on the team; the owner, the HC and the QB. If another other team had such dominant people in place, at such crucial positions, they too would be posting such dominant results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinaccia Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 For what reason is this thread permitted here? This is the Bills forum not around the NFL forum. Look the Patriots have beat us soundly the last 15 years and will continue to do so if Tom Brady is their quarterback. It frustrates me however its necessary to note that its neither productive nor interesting to comment/vent on how great another team is on a Bills discussion forum. Bills fans need to worry about this team winning the other 14 games a year. I'm not denying the Patriots are the best team in the league. As far as the NFL goes they're the champions. I just don't think this is the proper venue nor meaningful to discuss this here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 For what reason is this thread permitted here? This is the Bills forum not around the NFL forum. Look the Patriots have beat us soundly the last 15 years and will continue to do so if Tom Brady is their quarterback. It frustrates me however its necessary to note that its neither productive nor interesting to comment/vent on how great another team is on a Bills discussion forum. Bills fans need to worry about this team winning the other 14 games a year. I'm not denying the Patriots are the best team in the league. As far as the NFL goes they're the champions. I just don't think this is the proper venue nor meaningful to discuss this here. You didn't have to click and read it, you chose to. You didn't have to participate in the topic discussion, you choose to. Also this is a football forumn, not just a Bills forum..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 No. Repeated cheating has tainted their legacy. how are they cheating this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 You didn't have to click and read it, you chose to. You didn't have to participate in the topic discussion, you choose to. Also this is a football forumn, not just a Bills forum..... It doesnt bother me that it is posted here (and thus should be subject to my opinion that the thread sucks) But in other forms this would be moved to a "General NFL forum" within TBD because this IS a Bills forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I will try to keep this in mind as they get their hand caught in the cookie jar cheating time and time and time again do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Even with cheating allegations, they are still the best. That's the annoying part... they don't need to cheat to win, but the culture is so obsessive, that they do. This is how I feel. And it makes the cheating worse to some degree. But they're an incredible team. Devilchick is the best coach ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 how are they cheating this year? The OP is insinuating that the pats are the best franchise ever Ever would also include the years that they have cheated....had draft picks taken away....taken players to quarter. etc etc etc You are NOT the greatest franchise when you have to cheat regardless of year. do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever. Cheating is cheating.....there was also the spygate years...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) You didn't have to click and read it, you chose to. You didn't have to participate in the topic discussion, you choose to. Also this is a football forumn, not just a Bills forum..... Meh, I see other threads get locked for no reason. The "NFL Refereeing needs to come to 21st Century" got locked, that was a football discussion... The auto response said it was being discussed previously, yeah obviously, in many many threads. Sometimes starting a new thread for a topic helps. I agree though, this thread is fine. Does that guy want to lock the Cam Wake Achilles Thread? Lock the Dex Bryant will play in week 8 Thread. Just go look at TSW, quite a few non-bills threads. Edited October 30, 2015 by PortlandiaEast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 No- greatest franchise ever has to be about more than one guy. Steelers have put together championship teams over several generations. Pats were lousy before Brady and will probably be lousy after Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever. I agree, they are the best football organization ever. Period, in my mind. Most of that goes to Brady, the best player at the most important position. This has gone on too long for me to question. They have also been caught and admitted to cheating (unnecessarily, I might add). And for all the times they were caught, there are many more times they were suspected. I'm sure there's truth to at least some of these suspicions. I also would bet there are instances of them stepping over the line that we've never heard of before. What impact did the deflated balls have? It doesn't matter, because it was cheating, just like Spy Gate. But if you want an answer, look to the fumble charts. They wouldn't do it if they didn't think it gave them an advantage. They don't have to cheat, but they do. Edited October 30, 2015 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'd take repeated success for 15 years without integrity over utter failure ANY day. I wouldn't that pretty much sums up the USA and much of the world today. Take as much for yourself and screw the rest. And people ywonder why society is circling the drain.. Pretty much answers itself with quotes like this IMO winning without integrity is shameful and not even worth the pursuit. The fact that some would would so easily and willingly sacrifice integrity just to win a stupid game just makes me very ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I wouldn't that pretty much sums up the USA and much of the world today. Take as much for yourself and screw the rest. And people ywonder why society is circling the drain.. Pretty much answers itself with quotes like this IMO winning without integrity is shameful and not even worth the pursuit. The fact that some would would so easily and willingly sacrifice integrity just to win a stupid game just makes me very ill. Let me ask you this: Do you see any asterisks in the actual record book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I wouldn't that pretty much sums up the USA and much of the world today. Take as much for yourself and screw the rest. And people ywonder why society is circling the drain.. Pretty much answers itself with quotes like this IMO winning without integrity is shameful and not even worth the pursuit. The fact that some would would so easily and willingly sacrifice integrity just to win a stupid game just makes me very ill. agreed…nicely put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm one more vote for integrity, but I recognize it's not black and white. It's a world of decisions somewhere in the gray where it's not always easy choices, and I want my team to own the "gray territory", without stepping into "Patriotland". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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