Colorado Mike Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It reminded me of the call vs. Baltimore a few years ago when our WR Lee Evans caught a pass and went into a scrum, the pile just stood there for about 5 seconds, then the ball fell out (probably from fatigue). It was in overtime. The Bills were at midfield, and in a good position to win. But Woods was stripped of the ball yesterday. He should have put his knee on the ground and moved on. Exactly. When multiple guys have you like that you should know you aren't going to break free and when they are working on stripping you just drop to a knee, your rear end or something to put yourself down before that can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I remember a similar play many years ago in Baltimore vs. the Ravens where a Bills' TE was held up and stripped of the football. I believe one of many gaffes by Robert Royal. I think it might have even been in OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I believe one of many gaffes by Robert Royal. I think it might have even been in OT Nope. It was Shawn Nelson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Nope. It was Shawn Nelson. Whoops-- you're right. Though was there really any difference between those two total disappointments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 nope. nice try though he was always going forward. never came to a stop even momentarily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He was stopped. Whistle should have blown play dead So you're saying the ref was watching the play, saying...this idiot didn't go out of bounds....well, I'm not going to blow the play dead then. Serves him right......? really? No, not really. Look, it's even simpler than that. A ref sees a player chose not to simply continue out of bounds, so he assumes that WR is intent on getting more YAC. He is going to see how the WR keeps pushing forward to get those yards he intends to get--as Woods keeps grinding forward. Maybe he was about to blow the whistle just as Woods was stripped. If it's close, don't cry when you don't get the call or when your guys poor gamble doesn't pay off. Sounds dumb, doesn't it? And I think that many here need to see the play again, and when it happened in the game, before talking about how he should have gone out of bounds. But that's the great thing about hindsight. Actually most of us commenting in the shoutbox said so at the time--why not just go OOB, stop the clock, no more yards could be had there. Nice try doc. It was a foolish move a more intelligent/disciplined player would not have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Whoops-- you're right. Though was there really any difference between those two total disappointments? Don't forget Lonnie Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Don't forget Lonnie Johnson. friggin Lonnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Actually most of us commenting in the shoutbox said so at the time--why not just go OOB, stop the clock, no more yards could be had there. Nice try doc. It was a foolish move a more intelligent/disciplined player would not have made. That's why I said you need to look at the play, and when it happened, again. It was midway through the 4th quarter with the Bills down 14 points. Woods caught the ball at the Bills' 19-yard line. near the sideline. Since his back was turned to the defenders, he spun around towards the middle of the field ostensibly to gain more yards because they still needed to get 81 yards to score a TD and then another TD, all in the space of 7-1/2 minutes. He had no idea who was behind him or that they'd strip the ball from him. You can fault him for allowing the ball to be stripped, but prior that he should have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 My old D coach in football taught us that when we really needed a turnover, let the RB/receiver move up slowly a yard at a time while we (the defense) swarmed him and tried to strip it out. Looks like the Giants were taught that too. On the opposite side of the field, the O was taught to recognize this and join the swarm either pushing their guy to the ground, out of bounds or being around the ball if it popped loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 tough to tell whether he was moving forward or the guys were holding him up. He should have held on with both hands, put his head down and tried to get down. Would have made it obvious he was quitting on the play at which point the forward-progress rule would come into effect. It looked to me like he was trying to move himself forward while waiting for a whistle. He definitely appeared to be grinding forward trying to break free instead of giving up. Possibly just trying to protect himself but it was a fair call by the ref. My old D coach in football taught us that when we really needed a turnover, let the RB/receiver move up slowly a yard at a time while we (the defense) swarmed him and tried to strip it out. Looks like the Giants were taught that too. On the opposite side of the field, the O was taught to recognize this and join the swarm either pushing their guy to the ground, out of bounds or being around the ball if it popped loose. I might be crazy but when they zoomed out on the bradham missed tackle, were ther a couple guys kind of loafing instead of swarming? Seemed like Gilmore or Darby was just kind of standing around in the middle of the field in one shot but it was live and not what I was keying on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He was stood up but forward progress wasn't stopped. Look at it again. He could have simply ran out of bounds there but was stubborn. agreed Not a big fan of Woods. I think he is good but i will never forget how he acted his rookie season in regards to EJ. Selfish player. Might be the greatest person in the world off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He definitely appeared to be grinding forward trying to break free instead of giving up. Possibly just trying to protect himself but it was a fair call by the ref. Looked like he was trying to get to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Forward progress aside, was he in no way concerned about the !@#$ing clock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Forward progress aside, was he in no way concerned about the !@#$ing clock? Versus the 181 yards more they still needed to get, just to tie the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Forward progress aside, was he in no way concerned about the !@#$ing clock? Was anybody? Seriously.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I can understand that. It is almost like they are holding Woods up while they work on stripping the ball Yes, much like the Ravens did holding up Scott Chandler as they stripped him of the ball several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It reminded me of the call vs. Baltimore a few years ago when our WR Lee Evans caught a pass and went into a scrum, the pile just stood there for about 5 seconds, then the ball fell out (probably from fatigue). It was in overtime. The Bills were at midfield, and in a good position to win. But Woods was stripped of the ball yesterday. He should have put his knee on the ground and moved on. I believe the way he was hanging that he was trying that. The two on D were doing what they needed to keep him moving and upright to strip that ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Its actually quite simple...Because Woods was still making forward progress and advancing the ball position it was not called. Think about it this way...if he was 2 yards shy of the first but was still fighting and progressing towards it and the refs blew the whistle before he crossed it, you would blow a gasket and lose your mind stating he's still moving forward how can you blow it dead. You can't have it both ways. The rule clearly states that if the player is still advancing the ball then its not stopped for forward progress. The forward progress rule is there so that players can not be carried back wards or purposely held upright to push them back wards. Not protect against fumbles by a player successfully fighting for more yardage. Woods was definitively, and undisputedly still moving forward at the time of the strip. Therefore, by rule, and correctly called there was no stoppage for progress. I have a major issue with the refs yesterday on both TD calls, a couple missed PI calls, and a couple missed late hit calls on Taylor...but this one they got right. The problem I have with it is that although Woods was still fighting for progress, they were holding him up while stripping the ball. Maybe he should have just fallen down on the ground but at a certain point I don't think he could have without losing the football so he just had to try to hold on. No whistle was coming though so inevitably he was stripped. Edited October 5, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Looked like he was trying to get to the ground. Not even close. In fact, when he is stripped, he is still clearly still moving forward. Whether he is being pushed, pulled or under his own power, if he is moving forward, there can't be a whistle to stop play. In fact, there is a sliver of a second where he is not moving forward the whole play---then he continued forward. http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000549171/Giants-Prince-Amukamara-recovers-Bills-Robert-Woods-fumble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Not to mention covering the center on the FG which led to a TD drive. And the refs picking up the flag for roughing the passer on TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Nelson piquet, Willie Nelson, Nelson Piquet Jr. BTW, get out of bounds you tool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Not even close. In fact, when he is stripped, he is still clearly still moving forward. Whether he is being pushed, pulled or under his own power, if he is moving forward, there can't be a whistle to stop play. In fact, there is a sliver of a second where he is not moving forward the whole play---then he continued forward. http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000549171/Giants-Prince-Amukamara-recovers-Bills-Robert-Woods-fumble That video looks like it's sped up to me. I don't think that is normal speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Not even close. In fact, when he is stripped, he is still clearly still moving forward. Whether he is being pushed, pulled or under his own power, if he is moving forward, there can't be a whistle to stop play. In fact, there is a sliver of a second where he is not moving forward the whole play---then he continued forward. http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000549171/Giants-Prince-Amukamara-recovers-Bills-Robert-Woods-fumble He was clearly trying to get away from them and their attempts to strip the ball and their momentum was carrying him forwards. That much is obvious. There was a good 2 seconds they were pecking at the ball during which the zebra could have blown the whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I dont think either side of this argument can be won. Easy for me to say he should have gotten out of bounds or get down quicker. I am not going to fault Robert on this one. bad luck IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I dont think either side of this argument can be won. Easy for me to say he should have gotten out of bounds or get down quicker. I am not going to fault Robert on this one. bad luck IMO. Of course it can be won HE LOST THE BALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He was clearly trying to get away from them and their attempts to strip the ball and their momentum was carrying him forwards. That much is obvious. There was a good 2 seconds they were pecking at the ball during which the zebra could have blown the whistle. You mean when he was churning upfield and if their hands came free he would've done all he could to turn and run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Of course it can be won HE LOST THE BALL Yes i gathered that. thank you John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Yes i gathered that. thank you John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 ha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You mean when he was churning upfield and if their hands came free he would've done all he could to turn and run? That's a big if. Since he went to the turf after they stripped the ball, it seemed to me that he was trying to wrestle the ball out of their grasp by going to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 He was stood up but forward progress wasn't stopped. Look at it again. He could have simply ran out of bounds there but was stubborn. This. Bobby caught the first down, you tippytoe out of bounds to stop the clock. The one thing you do not do is turn back to the inside and go upfield to trade maybe 5 more yards for 45 seconds on the clock. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Don't forget Lonnie Johnson. The Wile E Coyote! A classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 This. Bobby caught the first down, you tippytoe out of bounds to stop the clock. The one thing you do not do is turn back to the inside and go upfield to trade maybe 5 more yards for 45 seconds on the clock. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The Wile E Coyote! A classic! The play occurred outside of the last 5 minutes of the end of the game, meaning the playclock would have started after they spotted the ball on the LOS. It might have saved maybe 8 seconds. And I was wrong earlier. The Bills would have had to go 164 yards just to tie the game, not 181, but in 6-1/2 minutes, not 7-1/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Tracy Nelson Charles Nelson Reilly Ozzie Nelson Harriet Nelson Baby Face Nelson Nelson Riddle Judd Nelson Nelson Eddy Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) That video looks like it's sped up to me. I don't think that is normal speed. say what? He was clearly trying to get away from them and their attempts to strip the ball and their momentum was carrying him forwards. That much is obvious. There was a good 2 seconds they were pecking at the ball during which the zebra could have blown the whistle. It doesn't matter what they were doing. He was making forward progress when he was stripped. It's clear. If he had not been stripped and those last few steps forward had been the difference between a first down and a punt, you certainly would not be making this argument Edited October 6, 2015 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 It doesn't matter what they were doing. He was making forward progress when he was stripped. It's clear. If he had not been stripped and those last few steps forward had been the difference between a first down and a punt, you certainly would not be making this argument If he had not been stripped, no one would be talking about how he should have gone out of bounds. It's all Monday morning QB'ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) That's one of those things where Woods stayed up just enough to keep the play alive. They could have blown the whistle but they were indeed right not to. Good effort by Woods but a dumb effort as he should have known to go out of bounds or go down. He had the first. It was another play that killed the Bills chances late. Wasn't there a similar play a few years back with Chandler vs KC where they basically stood him up, kept him from going down or OOB, and stripped the ball? The explanation was the play wasn't dead because the Bills OL was shoving him forward from behind the pile. If he had not been stripped, no one would be talking about how he should have gone out of bounds. It's all Monday morning QB'ing. It's a Known Thing now that opponent's D will try to hold a player up and create a turnover if they can. So the OOB thing, sure, but players do have to stay out of that situation where they're prevented from going down and the play stays alive until the ball gets coughed up - and it will get coughed up eventually with enough D beating on it. Especially at the end of the game where clock management is important Edited October 6, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If he had not been stripped, no one would be talking about how he should have gone out of bounds. It's all Monday morning QB'ing. Nope, the topic is whether he had stopped forward progress. Clearly the video has shown he had not, your attempts to claim otherwise notwithstanding. So questioning his decision (which was questioned in real time, not on Monday, doc) is legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The problem I have with it is that although Woods was still fighting for progress, they were holding him up while stripping the ball. Maybe he should have just fallen down on the ground but at a certain point I don't think he could have without losing the football so he just had to try to hold on. No whistle was coming though so inevitably he was stripped. Thats on Woods though, and he should have recognized that he needed to protect the ball their rather than keep pushing for yards. The Refs called by the rule book. Because Woods was still gaining forward progress, they let the play go. Had he just stopped pushing forward and wrapped the ball up or gone to the ground, play over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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