Kirby Jackson Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) !@#$ing stupid. How's that for discussion. Edited June 18, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 That's a joke. Wake isn't better at one single thing than Mario Williams. He's quicker, but not a better pure pass rusher, and he's not in Mario's universe as a run defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) He got 0 sacks on our putrid OL. at least in the 1st game. Not sure about the 2nd. Edited June 18, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 !@#$ing stupid. How's that for discussion. Could you be a little more succinct? Though I agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Russ is cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Where would we put him if ranking the 6 (add suh)? Personally I think suh and Dareus are 1a and 1b and would be fine with either Mario for his freakish frame/athleticism making him very well rounded at 3 Wake 4th Kyle and Hughes bringing up the back with order depending on if you are looking back at resume or forward at potential? That's not a knock on Jerry or Kyle either. Just a ton of d line talent in our division. Could add the jets guys too and have a good debate. I'd venture the top 8 in our division are all reasonably top 15-20 in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Apparently Wake is the 2nd ranked DE. So it's Watt and then Wake? Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) That's a joke. Wake isn't better at one single thing than Mario Williams. He's quicker, but not a better pure pass rusher, and he's not in Mario's universe as a run defender. Wakes sack per start rate is much better and sack per game played about even. I don't recall that first season but would venture more sacks per snap generally looking at those ratios... but agree wake does less all around and if Mario was simply sent after the qb he'd get there more often than he does now. Edited June 18, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I would doubt there is a GM or DC in the league who would take Wake over Mario, who is so much better against the run and virtually never takes himself out of the play the way Wake and other speed rushers will. Wake is good but not nearly as good as Mario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Where would we put him if ranking the 6 (add suh)? Personally I think suh and Dareus are 1a and 1b and would be fine with either Mario for his freakish frame/athleticism making him very well rounded at 3 Wake 4th Kyle and Hughes bringing up the back with order depending on if you are looking back at resume or forward at potential? That's not a knock on Jerry or Kyle either. Just a ton of d line talent in our division. Could add the jets guys too and have a good debate. I'd venture the top 8 in our division are all reasonably top 15-20 in the league I think that Mario & Suh are 1 & 1a. Dareus would be next to me. I wouldn't have an issue if Wake was ranked ahead of Kyle or Hughes. The fact that he is ahead of Mario Williams is a joke as Bandit alluded to. Wake doesn't do one single thing better than Mario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 First, Wake is in the discussion, somewhere, to be sure. Second, isnt this the players as ranked by other players? And dont they only get to rank like 50 or something? Its a popularity contest as much as a true measure. Third, do we really really really trust NFLN to report the results honestly? Instead of making sure there's something to talk about in every TV segment of 10. And to make sure every market has something to talk about? Bottom line, . . . whatevvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Whatever. Some guy who doesn't study film writes a Top 100? I guess it generates interest but it's not scientific nor does it provide a particularly informed opinion. So who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Discuss As much as the NFL's goal is to make football a 12-month a year concept, it's not. At best, it's good for 10 months...with 2 months of media masterbation filling in the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Wake has more forced fumbles, but compared to Mario's sack and tackle numbers, Mario is the better DE. Funny where they ranked our D line when our D line got more sacks than a lot of teams got as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXleadersXXsacks_active.htm First of all, it's a long offseason and I don't particularly buy into the hype of the NFL top 100 or any other silly power ranking. That being said... Mario Williams is the youngest player in the top 20 active player sacks list, and he's number 8. He has the most sacks of any player since he entered the league. He's arguably the most dominant defensive player outside of JJ Watt in the entire league at causing disruption at the line. Coming off a 14.5 sack season, with his history and his highlight reel, had he played in a market like Dallas or NY he would be in the top 15-20 players easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Discuss :lol: what a joke! Where would we put him if ranking the 6 (add suh)? Personally I think suh and Dareus are 1a and 1b and would be fine with either Mario for his freakish frame/athleticism making him very well rounded at 3 Wake 4th Kyle and Hughes bringing up the back with order depending on if you are looking back at resume or forward at potential? That's not a knock on Jerry or Kyle either. Just a ton of d line talent in our division. Could add the jets guys too and have a good debate. I'd venture the top 8 in our division are all reasonably top 15-20 in the league No way Kyle is the man. Wake doesn't even come close to the overall game of Kyle. I suppose he is equal to hughes but that is about it (and Dareus is better than Suh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'd like to see a ranking of Front Offices and then Owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It's not very material. The real issue is that all four DLs in the AFCE are dominant. I wonder if any division in any era has ever had so many stacked front sevens as this one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think that Mario & Suh are 1 & 1a. Dareus would be next to me. I wouldn't have an issue if Wake was ranked ahead of Kyle or Hughes. The fact that he is ahead of Mario Williams is a joke as Bandit alluded to. Wake doesn't do one single thing better than Mario. i could see the argument for your rankings too. those top 3 are definitely the elite of the elite. apparently wake does SOMETHING better. it just might be networking and likability. i think wakes game is a little better than some are giving credit for but agree mario should be clearly ahead of him. It's not very material. The real issue is that all four DLs in the AFCE are dominant. I wonder if any division in any era has ever had so many stacked front sevens as this one does. thats what im saying.... when a guy like hughes might be the 8th best lineman in his division.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't the top 100 thing voted in by players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't the top 100 thing voted in by players?Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Wake is 33 and will be very close to 34 as the season goes on. He doesn't bother me, the show is just for fun not like it is some cold hard fact of a show. Isn't the top 100 thing voted in by players? Yea but which players? I know lots of players last year said they were never asked to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yea but which players? I know lots of players last year said they were never asked to vote. i assumed it was a handful spread across the league..... not a 100% sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Good motivation for members of the Cold Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'd like to see a ranking of Front Offices and then Owners. How about a list of sports journalists ranked by credibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This is a list by players right? Why do folks care? Mario might be the best all around DE in the NFL. Dareus is at worst, a top 3 DT. Kyle Williams is a very good DT. Hughes is a really good pass rusher. They are good and players are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't the top 100 thing voted in by players? I don't know and don't care. I guess if it is voted by the players, it's more credible - or at least more interesting. But again, players don't do a comprehensive study of their peers. They study their opponents and otherwise rely heavily on Sports Center and the media. Again, media guys with poor film study habits will shape the opinion. Players on winning teams and those in bigger markets get more media attention. The kids on these teams do watch TV and are influenced by it. If I was interested in anything, it would be how NFL pro scouting departments rank players. I'd love to see that! I'm somewhat interested in how the stats gurus at PFF and elsewhere rank players. While their methodology is flawed, it does measure something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I don't know and don't care. I guess if it is voted by the players, it's more credible - or at least more interesting. But again, players don't do a comprehensive study of their peers. They study their opponents and otherwise rely heavily on Sports Center and the media. Again, media guys with poor film study habits will shape the opinion. Players on winning teams and those in bigger markets get more media attention. The kids on these teams do watch TV and are influenced by it. was interested in anything, it would be how NFL pro scouting departments rank players. I'd love to see that!If I I'm somewhat interested in how the stats gurus at PFF and elsewhere rank players. While their methodology is flawed, it does measure something. That would be really interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This is exactly why I (WE) need this team to just go out and win football games. NOTHING ELSE matters to me anymore. I am so sick of the disrespect, of BOTH Buffalo teams, all throughout the sports world. Now I am seeing people say Zemgus Girgensons isn't that good, "just because he looked good on a bad team." Saying Watkins is a bust. Saying the Sabres prospects are overrated. Saying McCoy is on the decline. Saying Eichel isn't that good. I am just so sick of all of it. I just need to start seeing winning football, and improvement in hockey. I can't do this anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This is exactly why I (WE) need this team to just go out and win football games. NOTHING ELSE matters to me anymore. I am so sick of the disrespect, of BOTH Buffalo teams, all throughout the sports world. Now I am seeing people say Zemgus Girgensons isn't that good, "just because he looked good on a bad team." Saying Watkins is a bust. Saying the Sabres prospects are overrated. Saying McCoy is on the decline. Saying Eichel isn't that good. I am just so sick of all of it. I just need to start seeing winning football, and improvement in hockey. I can't do this anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah, I know, tell me about it...and I'm the person who will sit and fight with these people all day long. Even with factual information based off previous players of similar ilk, they still argue..."because it's Buffalo." I don't even live there. Never have. But I love the city and the people I know from there, and obviously these teams have been a tremendously big part of my life. I just cannot wait for the day I don't have to say a word, and can just sit back and smile...for once. Ps. The Sabres prospect thing should be highlighted as well...McCoy probably should be too. But there is absolutely zero doubt that the Sabres prospects are rated #1 in the NHL for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah, I know, tell me about it...and I'm the person who will sit and fight with these people all day long. Even with factual information based off previous players of similar ilk, they still argue..."because it's Buffalo." I don't even live there. Never have. But I love the city and the people I know from there, and obviously these teams have been a tremendously big part of my life. I just cannot wait for the day I don't have to say a word, and can just sit back and smile...for once. Ps. The Sabres prospect thing should be highlighted as well...McCoy probably should be too. But there is absolutely zero doubt that the Sabres prospects are rated #1 in the NHL for a reason. i dont know if you noticed, but if you are the type to argue with anyone that speaks ill you will probably find plenty dogging your guys even when you are a winner. it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Maybe Wake gets a little more respect from some fellow players because they know that he doesn't get as much help from his fellow D-line team mates. I would not be surprised if Wake was constantly double teamed because teams knew that the other Phish D-line guys weren't as likely to hurt them. Not saying that makes the ranking order correct, but it probably does impact Wake's stats. Will be interesting to see if Wake's own sack numbers go up now that he will be playing with Suh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I would doubt there is a GM or DC in the league who would take Wake over Mario, who is so much better against the run and virtually never takes himself out of the play the way Wake and other speed rushers will. Wake is good but not nearly as good as Mario. This ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Who cares as long as we beat the finns twice this year!!! unless we meet in the playoffs than add another even more important win and let them rank Wake and Suh number 1 and 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Monkeyhead Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't his name Henderson's B word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Mario Williams > Cameron Wake Thats not with loyalty as a Bills fan. Williams is stronger off the snap and has more hurries and sacks over the past few seasons. The only advantage for Wake is FF and INT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This is exactly why I (WE) need this team to just go out and win football games. NOTHING ELSE matters to me anymore. I am so sick of the disrespect, of BOTH Buffalo teams, all throughout the sports world. Now I am seeing people say Zemgus Girgensons isn't that good, "just because he looked good on a bad team." Saying Watkins is a bust. Saying the Sabres prospects are overrated. Saying McCoy is on the decline. Saying Eichel isn't that good. I am just so sick of all of it. I just need to start seeing winning football, and improvement in hockey. I can't do this anymore. Who in the hell is saying Eichel isn't that good??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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