17 Josh Allen Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) For many a football scout and expert EJ just does not pass the eye test his stats look ok but when they watch him play QB he aims the ball and he does not throw with anticipation. I sure hope he learned something sitting behind Kyle Orton. Edited March 24, 2015 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I was reading this at work today (dont log in ) and WOW. pretty strong opinions being tossed about !  I would want to take a look at RJ3 if i was Whaley. a hard look. Not from a fans viewpoint. If the kids is trashed already then so be it. But i would want to know that for sure. and then compare that to EJ Manuel.  I think this might be the surprise pick up honestly. But the QB trade doesn't make sense to me. Interested to see what Washington thinks they can get for him at this point  A "hard look" at RG3 would likely result in his injury.  Anyway, not for nothing, but Whaley's "eye" doesn't seem to be be too sharply focused when it comes to looking at QBs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Â A "hard look" at RG3 would likely result in his injury. Â Anyway, not for nothing, but Whaley's "eye" doesn't seem to be be too sharply focused when it comes to looking at QBs.... LoL. Â I think they are going with Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 For many a football scout and expert EJ just does not pass the eye test his stats look ok but when they watch him play QB he aims the ball and he does not throw with anticipation. I sure hope he learned something sitting behind Kyle Orton. Â That can happen when you have an idiot coach who told him to never force the ball and never turn the ball over. Â I think you'll see a different EJ under Greg Roman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Gug, I hate to pile on, but this business that Manning sucked as a rookie is total utter horse ****. He was amazing as a rookie. The only column of his stat sheet that was negative was INTs, which is the kind of thing you expect to improve with experience. His yds and TDs were off the charts good for a rookie. They were on par with the better veteran QBs of the time. Back then throwing for 4k yds was a really big deal. Now it's just pretty good. I didn't bring Manning into the discussion. My challenge was for the EJ naysayers to look at current or future HOF QB's first 14 games' stats and compare them to EJ's first 14 games' stats. One will see that his first 14 games, compared to those current/future HOF QBs' first 14 games, weren't that bad. Â Clearly I'm not saying that EJ is a future HOF QB based on his first 14 games' statistics. All I'm trying to say is that 14 games is not enough to judge someone. We've seen QBs suck their first 14 games and go on to have awesome careers. We've also seen QBs do very well in their first 14 games and go on to have horrible careers. Â I think it's pretty fair to say that those who look awesome in that span tend to do well for the long term; but there are exceptions and I believe Griffin is one of them. I also think it's pretty fair to say that those who are absolutely horrible in that span tend to suck forever. Â EJ's stats were right in the middle, in my opinion. He showed glimpses of being great and he showed glimpses of being terrible. All in all, it's my opinion that his first 14 games showed the normal struggles of a young QB; especially one on a poorly coached team. Â I just think it's too early to pull the plug on EJ. Furthermore, I think Griffin, through 37 games, has shown us enough to be able to see that he's just not that good; not to mention his lack of durability. And no ... EJ's knee injuries aren't even close to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Stop with the E.J. comparisons he just does not pass the eye test. Now that is subject to change based on what he does OTA'S and Training camp and Pre-season. But I got a feeling we will either Have Bryce Petty from Baylor or will make a trade for RG3. I am hoping E.J. learned how to be a real QB by watching Orton, then maybe he has a chance. But I would rather have RG3 or Bryce Petty. Edited March 24, 2015 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 lol "Eye test" Â I mean, I don't think EJ is going to make it, but why use facts when you have the mysterious and undefined "eye test" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 so why not roll the dice and give it a chance. I'd take him for the right price. Cassel and picks. Easy. Why not? Cassel is not getting you to the promised land. I am in DC and RGIII can flat out play. Roman won't make him be superman anyway. So he won't make him be Peyton Manning. I'd do it. Are we going for it or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8prisoner Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Im not sure trading for a busted wheels, inaccurate, can't read a defense QB is better than keeping our own inaccurate QB and a draft pick  Bob Griffen has been awful since he came back injury. AWFUL. noy saying to take him..i think qb is intelligence and determination i think they have in bryce petty(if he can go through three progressions) nut carson palmer sucked and many achilles injuries absolutely blow the year after their surgery.. i saw flashes last year and rg 3 at his worst (if healthy and no confidence) is light years ahead of ej.. griffen may not heal and have confidence until he is around a staff that truly has his back.. his high cant be game planned for while mccoy is all heart , like petty may be, but will never be as talented and dangerous... rg 3 may be ruined and done... but if he has any heart and dicipiline, he will be a top 15 qb.. until he is 29 , 30 like rb age chart.. his head can be fixed aside from the braggart selfish crap. which will change as he is humbled and gets away from snyder... Stop with the E.J. comparisons he just does not pass the eye test. Now that is subject to change based on what he does OTA'S and Training camp and Pre-season. But I got a feeling we will either Have Bryce Petty from Baylor or will make a trade for RG3. I am hoping E.J. learned how to be a real QB by watching Orton, then maybe he has a chance. But I would rather have RG3 or Bryce Petty. right on Edited March 25, 2015 by K8prisoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Â That can happen when you have an idiot coach who told him to never force the ball and never turn the ball over. Â I think you'll see a different EJ under Greg Roman. Â It can also happen to a guy who is working on his footwork and throwing motion. Of course he's doing this at the same time he's reading the D trying to figure out the proper read. He's thinking instead of playing. It takes a lot of repetitions before he'll stop thinking about all those things. Hopefully he's gotten to (or will soon get to) the point that he can just play. We'll see a different player when he can do that. Edited March 25, 2015 by MDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Â Stop with the E.J. comparisons he just does not pass the eye test. WTF is an eye test? - [stealing this from Steve Czaban] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yes, Griffin needs some work but gets an incredibly bad rap in DC. Idiot Shanahan took a bright, articulate guy with an elite future and physically ruined him, then rushed him back the following year when he truly wasn't ready to play. Gruden publicly threw Griffin under the bus (nice judgement Jay) and went to extremes attempting to change the kid's basic style of play. Finally, the DC press ate Griffin up for every move he made and every thing that came out of his mouth. They had a field day at his expense. Griffin absolutely needs to get out of DC and get a fresh start. I'd give him a shot if the price is right. Of course Dan Snyder will want too much for him to validate his investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 yes he should be working in Buffalo get it done DOUG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Of course. But I think if this was to happen, we would have to give up way more than the above. WAY more!!! Â EJ is highly regarded on this board because he was a first round pick. It is a modern day version of the Losman Syndrome. There are posters who STILL think that Losman was "misused," etc. But, EJ is not highly regarded around the league, or even by Bills management. If he was, they would not have acquired 2 new qbs. Actually, it's hard for me to understand why some people cannot see this, but dialogue is why we are here. Â Bill, I agree that in the QB "seller's marketplace" we would have to give up more than EJ and a mid-round pick for RGIII. It's the same "good deal for us" mentality that suggested we could get Glennon or Foles for a late-round pick. Um, not hardly. Â I think it is fallacy to argue that acquiring 2 new QBs indicates EJ is not highly regarded by Bills management. He may be, he may not be, but in today's NFL where any QB is one good hit (or one bathmat, heh) away from going out for a few weeks, any competent team wants to have 3 QB on their roster who can play. It's just how well managed teams operate. Having Luck didn't keep the Colts from signing Hasselbeck. Having Locker didn't keep the Titans from signing Fitz. etc etc etc. Â Acquiring 2 new QB when we have a QB on our roster who may still earn a shot is not the way the Bills have traditionally operated - to their discredit - but it's what we always should have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 EJ plus our extra 6th this year and if RG3 is our starter the whole year then we give them another late pick. That sounds fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 For many a football scout and expert EJ just does not pass the eye test his stats look ok but when they watch him play QB he aims the ball and he does not throw with anticipation. I sure hope he learned something sitting behind Kyle Orton. Â Â Stop with the E.J. comparisons he just does not pass the eye test. Now that is subject to change based on what he does OTA'S and Training camp and Pre-season. But I got a feeling we will either Have Bryce Petty from Baylor or will make a trade for RG3. I am hoping E.J. learned how to be a real QB by watching Orton, then maybe he has a chance. But I would rather have RG3 or Bryce Petty. Â I think your phonograph needle is stuck, causing the words in your post to repeat erratically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Â Â Â I think your phonograph needle is stuck, causing the words in your post to repeat erratically. Â The "eye test" is for people who can't back up their arguments (or are too lazy too) but don't want to just put "IMO" so they try and make it sound more official with "eye test." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I hope EJ can redeem himself but I would trade for RG3 if the skins want to move him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I hope EJ can redeem himself but I would trade for RG3 if the skins want to move him. Good bump bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Absolutely nothing of substance in 13 pages. Bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 QB are harder to find then head coaches  Find a HC that fits the QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 QB are harder to find then head coaches  Find a HC that fits the QB Agree. Fire Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Agree. Fire Rex. Â Agreed! He's been here over a month and he still hasn't won a single game! He's dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 yes yes yes +100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I would be okay sending them a 5th rounder for him. One of them will be hurt this season at some point, the only hard part would be trying to keep them from being injured at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 RG's problem is that he wants to do it his way. Â He doesnt want a coach to take the RGIII out of him. He has the problem that Vick had in the early years. Â I would only deal for RG if I were convinced that he had finally grown up and decided that he wanted to be a real NFL QB, and not just be RG III. While I understand that being uncoachable is a bad thing. I would agree with him in that I would not want a coach to change what makes me successful. I good coach will use a player's strengths and build an offense around them rather than take a gifted athlete and force him to fit a system. I think back to Jim Kelly and how the Bills offense really took off when Marchibroda built the K-gun offense around what Kelly and the rest of the offense did well. Â RG3 needs to mature, without question. But he has tremendous physical skills and a good coach should be able to work with that and should also be able to stroke his ego enough to get him to put in the work required to be great. A good coach is also a master motivator and a sports physcologist. Jay Gruden is non of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The best boxers of all time didn't have glass jaws. Every single one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Redskins exec Doug Williams: Nobody has given up on RGIII FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The best boxers of all time didn't have glass jaws. Every single one of them. That would actually mean something if this was boxing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 What are the Redskins willing to give up for a team to take on his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 What are the Redskins willing to give up for a team to take on his contract? God forbid someone take on the last year of his Rookie Contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 That would actually mean something if this was boxing Good catch. You're a sharp guy. You know what I mean by 'sharp', right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 so is Jeff Tuel for RG3 not happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Good catch. You're a sharp guy. You know what I mean by 'sharp', right? Its a valid point friend  This isnt boxing......QBs are more protected now then ever.....he isnt getting hit anywhere close to the chin area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Â That can happen when you have an idiot coach who told him to never force the ball and never turn the ball over. Â I think you'll see a different EJ under Greg Roman. So... now we'll see an inaccurate QB who WILL force the ball and turn the ball over ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 so is Jeff Tuel for RG3 not happening? Â I heard it was happening, but that Whaley said we would be giving up too much, and killed the deal. I think we are looking into re-signing Losman in order to then trade him for Rg3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 God forbid someone take on the last year of his Rookie Contract  I know. It's rare for a QB to flame out that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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