Profitspro Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous and wouldn't work. That's ridiculous and would never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 He traded Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes, a huge win in our case. Getting Jairus Byrd to report for 1st Franchise Tag I'm pretty sure we had to agree it wouldnt be used a 2nd time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. no team would give up a high draft pick AND sign have to sign Byrd to a huge contract. Â I am sure Whaley is able to identify good QB talent better than any of us posters. Getting said QB on the team isn't as easy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Jaris Byrd is a hell of a player. Definitely noticed his absence on the field this year. How many games did he play for NO again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8prisoner Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Whaley seems like he is batting .750 in personnel with big whiffs on o .. I think it takes a real pair to admit there is no qb for us if we fall out of top five and get us at least a guaranteed number one which might lure qb if we had built a line I also think my same prejudices about gms and WBA appear with Whaley but he has turned kelvin into gold.. That trade along with some great waiver activity ( Rambo Gray and keeping Leodis strictly on d with our first returner since roscoe Parrish ) should earn him another year at the helm. Gms and qbs ....... Gms and qbs ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Whaley seems like he is batting .750 in personnel with big whiffs on o .. I think it takes a real pair to admit there is no qb for us if we fall out of top five and get us at least a guaranteed number one which might lure qb if we had built a line I also think my same prejudices about gms and WBA appear with Whaley but he has turned kelvin into gold.. That trade along with some great waiver activity ( Rambo Gray and keeping Leodis strictly on d with our first returner since roscoe Parrish ) should earn him another year at the helm. Gms and qbs ....... Gms and qbs ....... but please get rid of that kickoff specialist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Some of Whaleys best moves have been to let overpriced free agents walk. Byrd and Levitre have virtually single handedly destroyed the franchises they went to. I trust he will get it right with Jerry Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Whaley seems like he is batting .750 in personnel... Â I like the way you put it, and it's amazing to me that so many internet GM wannabes want to replace him with a hope and change prospect. No one bats a thousand, right? On balance, I think he's rounding into the best talent architect we've had in some time, especially considering the dysfunction he's had to work in. And he's still young, with room to grow and improve. You know, the best teams in the league have strong, consistent organizations that work together toward a well-defined, common goal. Let's hope the Pegulas and Whaley are currently laying the foundations for just such a Bills organization. God knows, with an aging Ralph Wilson, we haven't had a franchise structure like that in forever. Such an organiztion, combined with the right player talent, will get us where we all want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but please get rid of that kickoff specialist... The kickoff specialist was Marrone call I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boolay Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Some of Whaleys best moves have been to let overpriced free agents walk. Byrd and Levitre have virtually single handedly destroyed the franchises they went to. I trust he will get it right with Jerry Hughes. Hyberbole at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. Â We weren't getting anything for Byrd no matter what. No team is giving up a 2nd or 3rd rd pick for a free agent to be safety that wanted to be the highest paid in the league. Tag Hughes at 14.5 mill and then trade him for a QB? This just gets better and better. Any other brilliant ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hyberbole at its finest. Have I lost touch with the English language? How was that hyperbole? Â Furthering to that.....what on Earth does "Whaley creds to trade for qb" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Some of Whaleys best moves have been to let overpriced free agents walk. Byrd and Levitre have virtually single handedly destroyed the franchises they went to. I trust he will get it right with Jerry Hughes.do you do stand up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Ever since the Peerless Price trade - everyone and their mother thinks we should "tag and trade" whatever top free agents we have every year. Â It's 2015, people. When was the last time ANYONE in the league did that? Edited January 7, 2015 by BillsFanForever19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Ever since the Peerless Price trade - everyone and their mother thinks we should "tag and trade" whatever top free agents we have every year. Â It's 2015, people. When was the last time ANYONE in the league did that? ...was the last time Peerless Price? Edited January 7, 2015 by JM57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) If you read the headlines, Whaley is talking to candidates to develop EJM seen in Buff news  it was said that during interviews Whaley not only has spoken in glowing terms about Manuel, he also has made it clear he wants the new coach to make the progress in developing Manuel that Marrone and his staff failed to make  http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/whaley-talking-up-manuel-in-coach-interviews-20150106  and on NFL.com Report: Bills GM Whaley wants next coach to develop Manuel Edited January 7, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Jaris Byrd is a hell of a player. Definitely noticed his absence on the field this year. How many games did he play for NO again?  The question is, could the Bills have franchised him and then traded him? It sounds great in theory. Everyone is all about this ever since NE franchised Cassel and traded him. QB is kind of a special case though - high demand, low availability item. In practice, I don't think there was a market of teams willing to trade anything meaningful for Boo Boo Foot so they could pray to contract terms that satisfy whats-his-name the agent. Have I lost touch with the English language? How was that hyperbole?  Furthering to that.....what on Earth does "Whaley creds to trade for qb" mean? hyperbole: exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally. "Byrd and Levitre have single handedly destroyed" -> I'd say that qualifies  You're on your own with the "Whaley creds to trade for qb", except that I don't think it means very much? Can't get blood from a turnip, can't sign or draft a QB who isn't there to be signed Edited January 7, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 hyperbole: exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally. "Byrd and Levitre have single handedly destroyed" -> I'd say that qualifies  You're on your own with the "Whaley creds to trade for qb", except that I don't think it means very much? Can't get blood from a turnip, can't sign or draft a QB who isn't there to be signed Egad....that'll learn me for reading only the first and last sentences. Sorry Boolay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Whaley seems like he is batting .750 in personnel with big whiffs on o .. I think it takes a real pair to admit there is no qb for us if we fall out of top five and get us at least a guaranteed number one which might lure qb if we had built a line I also think my same prejudices about gms and WBA appear with Whaley but he has turned kelvin into gold.. That trade along with some great waiver activity ( Rambo Gray and keeping Leodis strictly on d with our first returner since roscoe Parrish ) should earn him another year at the helm. Gms and qbs ....... Gms and qbs ....... The only big whiff on O so far might be Chris Williams. I'd be reluctant to blame DW for anything on O until we see what a competent coach does with this talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The kickoff specialist was Marrone call I believe. I'm not sure what everyone's issue is with the KO specialist? Their goal was to have an elite ST and they did. They dressed 7 guys each week solely to play on ST (Gay, Carpenter, Schmidt, Sanborn, Thigpen, Dean and Easely). What did people want them to do with those spots dress a couple more slow TEs? If the answer is Mike Williams then they should have not dressed someone like Lee Smith because he wasn't ever going to contribute in a positive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. I don't think anyone knows if Whaley can identify a QB based on the "coaching" of Marrone. More QBs have been ruined by their first NFL HC than have been developed. While Manuel has his obvious problems, his development was obviously hindered by Marrone's lack of innovation and incessant "don't turn the ball over" rhetoric that kept Manuel from even trying to make a play until the game was on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think anyone knows if Whaley can identify a QB based on the "coaching" of Marrone. More QBs have been ruined by their first NFL HC than have been developed. While Manuel has his obvious problems, his development was obviously hindered by Marrone's lack of innovation and incessant "don't turn the ball over" rhetoric that kept Manuel from even trying to make a play until the game was on the line. Drafting a "project" QB like Manuel and giving him a rookie OC who was also his QB coach is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I don't think anyone knows if Whaley can identify a QB based on the "coaching" of Marrone. More QBs have been ruined by their first NFL HC than have been developed. While Manuel has his obvious problems, his development was obviously hindered by Marrone's lack of innovation and incessant "don't turn the ball over" rhetoric that kept Manuel from even trying to make a play until the game was on the line. Not to mention an OL that couldn't stop a nosebleed, and an anemic to impotent run game  I agree that the jury is out on Whaley's QB-finding skills. We know Whaley was a consensus decision including Nix and Brandon, and I haven't seen anyone else in that draft light up the league (Geno? Nassib?) We also don't know whose decision it was to jettison Fitz in favor of TJax then Kolb. If Marrone came in and said "get me a WCO guy" that's not on Whaley.  The Bills real QB problems are strategic and far predate Whaley - persistant failure to pick up a QB through draft when a value player falls, clinging to one not-so-good player for too long, failure to build a quality group of players around a developmental QB, particularly OL.  Also, please keep in mind that historically, something like 50% of the QB drafted high in the 1st (1st 5, 1st 10 picks) bomb, only 30% of the QB drafted in the last half of the 1st round/first few picks of the 2nd make it (numbers vary depending upon where you draw the line and how you define "make it"). If Whaley drafts 5 QB and they all bomb, he sucks at QB. If he drafts 3 in the bottom of the 1st to top of the 2nd and they all bomb, I'm not sure that's statistically distinguishable from "average" Edited January 7, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I am nervous for Whaley to potentially enter into a trade or offer picks for a QB. Firstly Whaley seems not to be able to identify good QB talent. Also his trade cred and roster planning in my opinion is not good as last year he could have tagged Jaris Byrd and possibly gotten a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft but he let Byrd go to New Orleans. If he remains the Bills GM it will be interesting to see if he may tag Hughes and shop him for a QB and draft picks in this year's draft. Being able to find QB talent requires that there actually be QB talent available. I don't think there was anyone worth a crap the last two seasons. I'm sure you can offer names of people you think will be good because you saw them complete a pass on a SportsCenter highlight, but noone proven that the Bills are realistically able to acquire are available. Players like Cutler and Bradford are lottery tickets. Edited January 7, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblax16 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but please get rid of that kickoff specialist... Â Â HAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 All indications look like it's all about EJ this year. He's now had 2 years in the league, one where he was forced into perhaps too much too soon and one where he sat almost the entire year. Now that we are past losing our pick, I'm completely fine riding EJ. I'd like to bring in a vet who will help him but not push him (like the Andrew Luck - Matt Hasselbeck) relationship and take a developmental guy in the 5th round. People act like they know Bradford or Cutler would surely put us in the playoffs and it's a ridiculous notion. Support EJ, get him a good coach and a vet to sit in the room with him and let him sink or swim. If he flames out we'll be in a position to get a new QB next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think it is fair to assume that Whaley can't evaluate QB talent. Where did he miss? By not taking Geno Smith over EJ? It is not like there has been a plethora of QB talent pouring into the league that he has missed on. There are not many elite QB's in the league, let alone ones that Whaley had a chance to get. I think he made a good effort to add serviceable veterans to the team in Kolb and Orton and the jury is still out on EJ. Just because we have not had the good fortune to add an Andrew Luck to the roster doesn't mean that Whaley doesn't recognize the talent when he sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I agree that Whaley creds to QB change, but credding to trade for QBs is misnomer. Yes he snaps all names in the bucket, but how many actually worked out? For that matter, the QB directly affects the cred, leaving a GM gasping! Absolutely gasping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think it is fair to assume that Whaley can't evaluate QB talent. Where did he miss? By not taking Geno Smith over EJ? It is not like there has been a plethora of QB talent pouring into the league that he has missed on. There are not many elite QB's in the league, let alone ones that Whaley had a chance to get. I think he made a good effort to add serviceable veterans to the team in Kolb and Orton and the jury is still out on EJ. Just because we have not had the good fortune to add an Andrew Luck to the roster doesn't mean that Whaley doesn't recognize the talent when he sees it. The only one that really bothers me is TJ Graham over Russell Wilson when we did not have a single young QB prospect on the roster. But Whaley wasn't making the calls yet on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I get that most everyone has come to the conclusion that Manuel is a bust... but with the horror stories that continue to come out about how dysfunctional the offensive coaching was on this team under Doug Marrone, I can't help but think that played some role in Manuels' struggles. Â Everyone says they knew, when they drafted EJ, they knew he was a "project", but it doesn't sound like anyone (or at least not the boss) had a clue as to how to proceed with the project. Instead of using Manuels' natural abilities to let him enjoy some success, and gradually round out his game, they harnessed him by taking away his greatest asset (throwing on the run), and trying to turn him into a robot, programmed to run out of bounds and to throw the ball away at the first sign of trouble. Â Manuel still has to improve his accuracy, and yeah, he does have to become a better pocket passer, to become a legit NFL starter. I am still not convinced that he can't do those things. It sounds as though Marrones biggest fear was turning the ball over, and it was drummed into the head of his young QB. I often thought EJ, particularly on the intermediate routes that require accuracy and a certain degree of arm strength, was throwing the ball not to get intercepted, rather than throwing the ball to complete the pass...it is kind of an extension of a head coach who coaches not to lose, rather than to win. Â I don't have any issue with the Bills, or Whaley, emphasizing that their new head coach being open to EJ Manuel as their starting QB. It may scare a potential coaching candidate or two off, but do we really want somebody who would be so deterred anyways? EJ may not, ultimately, be the answer, but at least in the short term, he may be the best answer.... Edited January 7, 2015 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The only one that really bothers me is TJ Graham over Russell Wilson when we did not have a single young QB prospect on the roster. But Whaley wasn't making the calls yet on that one. Agreed, I don't believe it was his call, that's why I didn't mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What sure thing QB has Whaley missed out on during 2013 and 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What sure thing QB has Whaley missed out on during 2013 and 2014? Blake Bortles and Johnny Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Blake Bortles and Johnny Football. I'm not sure anyone can consider Manziel to be a sure thing. And wasn't Bortles taken before our pick? Or is the assumption that we should have traded the farm for him? Also, it looks like Bortles had a worse rookie year than Manuel... so I'm a bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What sure thing QB has Whaley missed out on during 2013 and 2014? this. That's my point, the premise of this post, that Whaley can't evaluate QB's is a very weak foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I'm not sure anyone can consider Manziel to be a sure thing. And wasn't Bortles taken before our pick? Or is the assumption that we should have traded the farm for him? Also, it looks like Bortles had a worse rookie year than Manuel... so I'm a bit confused. We need the sacarasm font. Â Manuel's rookie year numbers are pretty much in line with every rookie QBs not named Luck or Wilson. But patience sucks. If you're aren't a pro bowler after 14 games as a NFL QB (maybe the hardest position in all of sports), you are a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sorry, it's hard to tell around here with some of the opinions thrown around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I agree that Whaley creds to QB change, but credding to trade for QBs is misnomer. Yes he snaps all names in the bucket, but how many actually worked out? For that matter, the QB directly affects the cred, leaving a GM gasping! Absolutely gasping. I have no idea what you're talking about, but, I think it's filthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I haven't read the whole thread so I do not know if this has been brought up or not but Whaley's confidence in EJ is as much a recruiting tool as it is his actual belief. Is he going to interview these candidates and say that "we have a 1st round QB that cant play" or is he going to say "the kid was coming along well but the inept coaching staff didn't know how to use him?" Of course he is going to play up EJ if he wants these guys to take the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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