I know nonone would actually say it but do you think Whaley might actu

[K-9]

Funny little secret: the biggest reason big-name coaches don't want this job is even their massive egos know they can't win without a QB. That sorta tells you how overrated those guys actually are.

 

There are still bright young minds that will jump at the chance of taking 1 of 32 precious jobs in the world. You just quite obviously cannot trust Russ Brandon to have any clue on what those guys look like.

 

It's not much of a secret, actually.

 

And Russ Brandon is no longer involved in that side of the business, so you don't have to worry about that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thewildrabbit]

Would it be only appropriate then to judge GM's who can't get decent starting QBs or offensive linemen?

after having two years to make any changes he wants. Then the 2015 first round & fourth round picks are gone on the 4th ranked rookie WR. #14 Evans, #23 Beckham, #24 Benjamin all have more yards, TD's then Watkins.

 

5 years later, and still no baby... thanks for nothing Buddy.

[K-9]

after having two years to make any changes he wants. Then the 2015 first round & fourth round picks are gone on the 4th ranked rookie WR. #14 Evans, #23 Beckham, #24 Benjamin all have more yards, TD's then Watkins.

 

5 years later, and still no baby... thanks for nothing Buddy.

 

Clearly, drafting Sammy was a mistake when all those other guys have been so much more productive.

 

What a myopic viewpoint.

 

When it's all said and done, Sammy Watkins will prove to be the best receiver in this class. Not one of the those receivers brings the total package that Watkins does.

 

Enjoy the ridiculing now, though. It's always easier to kick a man when he's down.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[reddogblitz]

Whaley was instrumental in the hiring of Coach Marrone. Would look bad for him to fire Coach Marronw so soon. I could see him telling a coach Marrone he has to fire Hackett Jr or going heavy on O talent in FA. Guards, QB that sort of thing.

 

If we win 8 or more it would be hard to pull a fire everyone move.

Edited December 9, 2014 by reddogblitz

[Agent 91]

 

 

He didn't get #1 overall, he got a Hall of Famer in the 6th round.

 

Bledsoe?

[Dopey]

Funny little secret: the biggest reason big-name coaches don't want this job is even their massive egos know they can't win without a QB. That sorta tells you how overrated those guys actually are.

 

There are still bright young minds that will jump at the chance of taking 1 of 32 precious jobs in the world. You just quite obviously cannot trust Russ Brandon to have any clue on what those guys look like.

Actually, it's not the QB situation. The reason(and it's no secret) is the Bills have always been CHEAP when it comes to paying a head coach and his staff. Hopefully Pegula opens up his checkbook.

[RealityCheck]

Which shiny new HC will take Orton and Manuel to the next level in 2015? Same problem, different HC. Polishing terds won't bring the Lombardi to Buffalo.

[eball]

Good post. I agree on all fronts.

 

I think Whaley could and would fire Marrone at the end of this season (if we lose to the Pack and the Pats, which we may not). I wouldn't bet on it, and maybe not even predict it. But I think he may, depending on what the Pegulas think of Marrone (and to some degree, what Brandon's input is).

 

I agree with these thoughts as well.

 

And call me crazy, but after watching the Packers/Falcons last night I really wouldn't be surprised if the Bills win on Sunday. Yes, Aaron Rodgers is playing unbelievably well, but Green Bay's defense is nothing to fear.

[Homey D. Clown]

I don't know what the mystery is here about MIke Williams... Woods, Hogan and Watkins are the reason he's not starting, plain and simple. I admire Marrone for not just playing a guy because he complains, and or has a big contract. I never saw the guy "killin it" at any time. I think he is a serviceable player, and he was brought in to compete for a spot given Woods average play last year, and the unknowns in Hogan and Sammy, but that's what good teams do. They bring players in to compete, bottom line.. In years past, we would have seen Mike Williams till we choked on his average play, just because, remember T.O. ?? The Bills are starting to act like a good team right now, and that's why we've seen an improvement in the win column.

 

As far as the Marrone debate, I personally think the guy can coach. Considering that we still don't have a franchise QB in place for at least the next 3 years, if we draft one that is, this team is some execution away from a 9-4 record. so I do not subscribe to the revolving door at the head coach position at all. I like the attitude and culture on the team for a change.

[D521646]

I agree with those that say NH might not be the problem. I don't see any coach taking EJ and Orton to the playoffs any better or worse than DM and NH. What I saw/see this year was a team that really was a few plays away from being a serious playoff contender. Even losing in Denver, we could very easily be 9 - 4 (and yes with a few bounces we could be 6 - 7) but that is how it goes. Take the refs out of the equation, and who knows where we're at? I was hard on NH all year, saw no creativity, but more and more I'm starting to think that DM might be more involved with the offense than initially thought, and if so, NH has done well in spite of DM's interference. I think, regardless of our final record, we go all in on the important aspects of keeping our D together for at least another two three years, and shore up the Oline as best as possible, and look to FA for a QB to compete with EJ and Orton. I think this is the plan, and I would be ok with it. What's one more yea, eh?

[reddogblitz]

As far as the Marrone debate, I personally think the guy can coach. Considering that we still don't have a franchise QB in place for at least the next 3 years, if we draft one that is, this team is some execution away from a 9-4 record.

 

I have seen this argument made on TBD many times this season. However, isn't getting the team to execute the coaches responsibility as well? A team that executes is a well coached team. Is it not? A team that gets a lot of penalties and doesn't execute is a poorly coached team.

 

Yet it's not Doug and Nate's fault because they coach well and have a good plan but the players aren't good enough to execute it? That's your position?

[Kelly the Dog]

I have seen this argument made on TBD many times this season. However, isn't getting the team to execute the coaches responsibility as well? A team that executes is a well coached team. Is it not? A team that gets a lot of penalties and doesn't execute is a poorly coached team.

 

Yet it's not Doug and Nate's fault because they coach well and have a good plan but the players aren't good enough to execute it? That's your position?

The Seahawks are a very well coached team and they lead the league in penalties. In fact, they have committed 55 more penalties than have been called in their favor. That's a ton. Denver is third, New England is fourth. Both are very well coached teams.

 

FWIW, Tampa is #2 and the Bills are #5.

[reddogblitz]

The Seahawks are a very well coached team and they lead the league in penalties. In fact, they have committed 55 more penalties than have been called in their favor. That's a ton. Denver is third, New England is fourth. Both are very well coached teams.

 

FWIW, Tampa is #2 and the Bills are #5.

 

You only took 1/2 my argument. All of those other well coached teams you mention can also execute and execute well.

 

Doing illegal things and trying to get away with it is the Seahawks' strategy, so that's not surprising that they have a lot of penalties.

Edited December 9, 2014 by reddogblitz

[Kelly the Dog]

You only took 1/2 my argument. All of those other well coached teams you mention can also execute and execute well.

 

Doing illegal things and trying to get away with it is the Seahawks' strategy, so that's not surprising that they have a lot of penalties.

Well the Bills have a great defense. Doesn't that mean they execute well? The Bills have 36 penalties on offense for 259 yards, and 51 on defense for 491 yards (although I guess defensive yards would normally be slightly more because of interference calls). But that's still almost 50% more on well executing defense.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I want a HC with an extensive background on offense.

 

 

CBF

[reddogblitz]

Well the Bills have a great defense. Doesn't that mean they execute well? The Bills have 36 penalties on offense for 259 yards, and 51 on defense for 491 yards (although I guess defensive yards would normally be slightly more because of interference calls). But that's still almost 50% more on well executing defense.

 

So if a team executes well on D but not O that counts as a well executing and well coached team?

 

My point is we're losing games due to poor execution and that reflects directly back on the coaching staff. You haven't convinced me otherwise.

[Kelly the Dog]

So if a team executes well on D but not O that counts as a well executing and well coached team?

 

My point is we're losing games due to poor execution and that reflects directly back on the coaching staff. You haven't convinced me otherwise.

I agree we're losing games due to poor execution and that reflects badly on the coaching staff. I have just never agreed that a lot of penalties or a few unnecessary roughness penalties, or a bunch of offsides and false starts is to be blamed on the coaches.

[thewildrabbit]

I want a HC with an extensive background on offense.

CBF

The sad thing is Marrone has an extensive offensive background. A three year Letterman as an O linemen at Syracuse. A 6th round pick by the Raiders in 86 as an ex NFL O lineman, a year with the Dolphins, a year with the Saints, a year with London Monarchs. He only played a total of five games as an NFL lineman.

 

Then his coaching experience is rather extensive, as an assistant offensive coach from 1992 to 2001 in College. Then in 2002 he was hired as the O line coach by the Jets for four years, then spent three years as the OC for the Saints. Then four years at Syracuse as head coach before coming to Buffalo.

 

I really question his NFL knowledge in allowing Nathaniel Hackett to run his offense the last two years. In letting three rookie QB's on the roster with no QB coach, or veteran QB. Then having a average QB like Orton throw 40 times a game while running only half that is just plain stupid. Much less 57 times a game is simply beyond ridiculous.

 

Doug Marrone may eventually be a good NFL head coach, who knows. All I do know Is i don't care to wait another 3-5 years to see if he will eventually develop into one. Plus, at this point I'm not so certain that simply firing Hackett, and replacing him with a known NFL talent at OC will make much difference.

 

 

I look at the Denver Broncos this week who have an elite QB in Peyton Manning, and only threw it 20 times vs 29 rushes. Manning didn't even throw for a TD which stopped his steak at 51 games. He also had his lowest QB rating the last six years. I suppose for them its far more important to devise an offensive scheme to actually win games.

 

In all honesty I don't know who the Bills could hire that would allow them to keep Schwartz as DC, and it certainly wouldn't be Jim Harbaugh. Perhaps Bill Cowher can be lured away from TV with an 8 mill per deal, as I see he might be the only man on the planet to build a team that can knock the Patriots off their lofty perch.

[reddogblitz]

The sad thing is Marrone has an extensive offensive background. A three year Letterman as an O linemen at Syracuse. A 6th round pick by the Raiders in 86 as an ex NFL O lineman, a year with the Dolphins, a year with the Saints, a year with London Monarchs. He only played a total of five games as an NFL lineman.

 

As did Coach Gailey and Coach Malarkey.

[BobbyC81]

Yup. But if he finishes 10-6 I think you have to keep him and Hackett.

 

Remember that Marty Schottenheimer was fired by San Diego after a 14-2 season because of differences with management. Nothing is guaranteed. I hate seeing the merry-go--round of coaches but with a probable 8-8 finish, it's tough to keep Marrone when you look at the talent on this team. The Watkins trade could also be Whaley's undoing.

[3rdand12]

Well I will say this.......Marrone certainly isn't the coach he promised to be.

 

He promised to be innovative and aggressive offensively and they are as far from those things as they could possibly be.

 

Where the blame for that goes is up for debate but someone needs to be held accountable.

 

As much as I'd like to blame Marrone/Hackett I think the front office bungled badly wrt personnel decisions in the offseason when they hired Marrone and I was less than impressed with last offseason as well.

 

The best time to make a turnaround in the NFL nowadays is year ONE. New coaches bring new systems that other teams are unprepared for and that buys you a natural game-planning edge much of that first season.

 

In year one Marrone and Hackett tried to install an up-tempo attack that looked quite promising early but they scrapped it this year....saddled with a porous OL and a QB who wasn't good enough to throw from the pocket or durable enough to be a dual threat.

 

It's almost as if Marrone has said........if you give me mediocre talent I will give you a mediocre offense....which fits the whole St. Doug model.

I find this to be a very interesting take. i had not considered it this even though its simple enough. well done

[BobbyC81]

That idea of the up-tempo attack with a rookie QB was pretty assinine.

[3rdand12]

I have seen this argument made on TBD many times this season. However, isn't getting the team to execute the coaches responsibility as well? A team that executes is a well coached team. Is it not? A team that gets a lot of penalties and doesn't execute is a poorly coached team.

 

Yet it's not Doug and Nate's fault because they coach well and have a good plan but the players aren't good enough to execute it? That's your position?

 

It has been at Times for me. But i focus on the O line and QB alot

[Manther]

Cant judge a coach or win playoff games without a solid qb that has a decent enough Oline line to keep him upright and to create some holes here and there for the runners.

 

Until then I wouldnt fire anyone because you don't know what kind of coach he is yet.

We have all seen what kind of coach he is. You haven't seen many games if you haven't seen enough of Doug Marrone to know what kind of coach he is.

[Nitro]

I like Marrone but he is coaching the Bills like they are a college team. He is a position coach and is over his head. His choices of position coaches and Hackett have been questioned. Williams wasted a year and a draft pick. Players making the same dumb penalties and undisciplined play. Time is now to make a change. Sorry Doug but your time is up.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Why try to find a feud where there is probably none?

You want a feud, check out the Deadskins. Coach totally disillusioned with Griffin, says so publicly, and wants him to sit while Snyder and his patsy GM Allen want to get something out of their significant investment. Guess who'll win that one? The thing is if Gruden goes, so does Allen, who convinced Snyder to hire Gruden. Skins organization continues to be the ultimate drama queen.

[Manther]

That idea of the up-tempo attack with a rookie QB was pretty assinine.

For sure. It is another example of DM putting square pegs in round holes and not letting petsonel dictate systems. He tries to force his systems with the wrong personel for them. His ego and stubbornness is much bigger than his brain.

 

I like Marrone but he is coaching the Bills like they are a college team. He is a position coach and is over his head. His choices of position coaches and Hackett have been questioned. Williams wasted a year and a draft pick. Players making the same dumb penalties and undisciplined play. Time is now to make a change. Sorry Doug but your time is up.

Agree

[BisonMan]

There seems to be a lot of inside baseball talk on this thread when we have no real idea what the relationships are like in the clubhouse. For all we know, Whaley may absolutely love Marrone and Hackett. There is just no telling. Every franchise that goes through tough seasons generate rumors about rifts in the management team. It doesn't mean it's true. It's probably often just an indication of highly competitive people working together and that's a good thing.

 

I'm all in favor of keeping Marrone and Hackett given that I really know nothing about the internal team relationships. The team is saddled with a very weak QB situation and has weak OGs. Oddly, aside from those positions, the team has a ton of talent almost everywhere else. Of course, the QB situation is one of those "other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" sort of things.

 

QB talent is almost everything in this league. Very few teams post strong winning records without a decent or great QB. Folks can site KC or Philly as teams with average QBs but they are both worlds better than what the Bills have. Folks complain about the offense being less than inspiring. Tell you what, get a top 15 QB at the helm and DM and NH could throw a lot more at him and would be immediately considered great coaches.

 

10-6 is a pipe dream. After a loss this weekend, the Bills should sit Orton and see what kind of progress Manuel can make over the last two games. Find OGs in the offseason and get try to get another QB (or two) to compete the way Seattle did to find Wilson. QB picking has extremely low returns so nobody should really expect anyone they bring in to be the savior. As the NFL shows each year, there are very few franchise QBs out there and it often takes a bit of luck to get one (ala Brady, Wilson, Romo, Brees).

 

Early success is no strong indicator either. See: Griffin, Kapernick, Dalton, Newton, Freeman.

 

It's a crapshoot that we have to deal with.

[NoSaint]

 

IF we finish 10-6 that means we beat the Packers and the Patriots, and that would mean, unless a completely bizarre game, that our offense played well enough to beat a very good team twice. That would be massive improvement right when we needed it most and likely gets us into the playoffs. It would also mean we didn't tank out west against Oakland. I would still blame the offense for not getting into the playoffs if we lose to them, because I felt that they could have done better, but if we finish 10-6 I will totally be in favor of keeping them, not disappointed we have to.

 

I complain about the formations a lot. I think we really ruined a chance at a much better offense. But I also know if Bryce Brown didnt fumble and Chandler didnt flub the recovery we could have easily won the KC game. If Orton hits an open Sammy on fourth down on the final play we win another game. We were close.

 

Hackett is young. Marrone is young. They are less than two years into their careers in these jobs. There is really no apprenticeship for being a Head Coach or Pro OC and calling plays. They can get better. There are things I like about both of them and things I don't like. But if they finish 10-6 I'll be in full favor. I just don't think that is going to happen.

 

Well said.

[thewildrabbit]

As did Coach Gailey and Coach Malarkey.

The difference now is that the new owners won't be scraping the bottom of the barrel of the least expensive out there. Nor will anyone worth a darn not want to work in Buffalo. Buddy Nix was forced to settle for Gailey because nobody wanted to work for a 90 year old owner who was notorious for micromanaging his coaches. It got so bad that even not so good assistants were turning down interviews for the job.

 

New ownership perhaps the richest in the NFL have already stated they want to win above all else, and don't care if the team makes money or not. To quote Terry Pegula "if i wanted to make money I'd drill another well"

 

If there is another Chip Kelly type out there we Bills fans can now expect him to be considered instead of ignored because he commands such a high salary. I think we can perhaps expect an offer to go to Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher or Jim Harbaugh should the Pegula's decide they are tired of an offensive coach who fields a near last ranked offense.

[GunnerBill]

I do not want Schwartz as HC. He can't do the job. 4-12 with that Lions roster last year is disgraceful, especially with Rodgers missing half the season. Imagine an HC in Buffalo going 4-12 with Brady out for an entire year, and an 8-8 Pats squad. You'd lose your mind.

 

Just for the sake of accuracy Schwartz was 7-9 last year in Detroit. 4-12 was their 2012 season when they were injury ravaged (it was still a significant underachievement don't get me wrong).

 

I am a huge Schwartz fan as DC - not sure I want him as a Head Coach. What happened with him as Head Coach in Detroit was that he wasn't spending as much time with the defense and as a result it didn't look like a Schwartz defense despite the talent and the offense was questionable at best and the whole thing was consistently ill disciplined.

 

I personally don't think Marrone is fired. I do think he could walk if they try and fire Hackett and I'm pretty sure they will try and fire Hackett. If we need a HC there are undoubtedly worse options that Jim Schwartz.... but there are better options too.

 

As for those who say he has some Belichick in him - he was on the Bill Belichick staff in Cleveland. That staff that has thrown out so many guys who have had noteworthy careers. And this is where I think our problem is with keeping Schwartz as DC. Thomas Dimitroff the current Falcons GM was also on that staff and was Schwartz's house mate for a time. If Dimitroff survives and Mike Smith is fired I'm 100% certain Schwartz at least gets an interview in Atlanta.

[Dr. K]

I think it's funny to read all the people here who want to fire Marone because he has not been able to win despite having plenty of talent on the roster, and then they want to fire Whaley (and excoriate Nix whenever they get the chance) for the bad job he's done as GM. Who do they think GOT all this talent that Marone is wasting? The tooth fairy?

 

You can't hold both of these opinions at the same time.

[ALF]

Starting all over once again would be a big set back. Marrone and Hackett are learning from there mistakes. If EJ can be a good starter by next season all is good. If Schwartz gets a HC job on another team, Pepper Johnson is ready to step up as DC

[GunnerBill]

Pepper Johnson is ready to step up as DC

 

Then he'd get to bench our best players in the linebacking corps and the secondary too. :-)

[ALF]

Then he'd get to bench our best players in the linebacking corps and the secondary too. :-)

 

If he stops unnecessary penalties , it's worth a try

[GunnerBill]

If he stops unnecessary penalties , it's worth a try

 

Hahahaha.

[Wagon Circler]

This is the best Bills team in ten years. Hamstrung by crappy quarterbacking, they will finish 8-8, the best record in 10 years.

Progress is being made; the roster is better. We could be in contention next year with the right QB.

I don't want to start over again with a new coach and staff. I like Whaley.

Bring everybody back, get a QB and let's go!

[thewildrabbit]

That idea of the up-tempo attack with a rookie QB was pretty assinine.

It was actually with three rookie QB's, and I agree it was pretty asinine.

 

This is the best Bills team in ten years. Hamstrung by crappy quarterbacking, they will finish 8-8, the best record in 10 years.

Progress is being made; the roster is better. We could be in contention next year with the right QB.

I don't want to start over again with a new coach and staff. I like Whaley.

Bring everybody back, get a QB and let's go!

The Browns have fired everybody every year for the last three years, and now finally have a team with a winning record.

 

What right QB? The Bills have had four QB's over the last two years, and each and every one regressed under this offensive coaching staff. In particular under Hackett.

 

Whaley will stay, and so might Marrone. Jim Schwartz will probably stay unless he gets an offer to be a head coach again. Its Can't Hackett that is most likely the goner, and good riddance to bad garbage.

[Billsfan369]

Coaches coach Players play Players don't or can't excute coach pulls hair out of head LOL The system is not broke. the O-Line is I don't care who you put in at QB line don't protect he gets hammered. I would like to see DM get his last year in an give him some o line players maybe a top flight Tight end. Not sure what to do about QB If Ortin had that extra 2-3 seconds he can fling with the best of them. Maybe that ARZ qb who's throwing some lazers right now. But If they decided to put Swartz in I would be ok with that.

Just some thoughts. probley none of which would happin. I do think that this team this year was close to being a very dangrous under the radar team that if they made the playoffs would have surprised other teams.

 

This is the best Bills team in ten years. Hamstrung by crappy quarterbacking, they will finish 8-8, the best record in 10 years.

Progress is being made; the roster is better. We could be in contention next year with the right QB.

I don't want to start over again with a new coach and staff. I like Whaley.

Bring everybody back, get a QB and let's go!

I totaly agree with it But would add that crappy QB play goes hand in Hand with Crappy O-Line play UGH!!!

[Big Gun]

I agree. I don't think Marrone comes back if he loses out.

 

Conversely, 10-6 (playoffs or not) brings him back, I think.

 

This is when I'm reminded of the Bullough days. If the players sincerely don't respect Marrone, they may very well run for the bus if they feel a losing record gets him fired. That's not as bat-schit crazy as it sounds. Fred Smerlas threatened physical harm to anyone that played well for Bullough and made him look good as a result.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

I doubt Russ gets touched now that he's back on the business side. His track record in that capacity is pretty impressive, actually.

 

I think your idea of DM being asked to fire NH might happen.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

All you people that think this are out to lunch. The team has shown improvement on the field and in their record even if they do lose out. So, ya lets start over AGAIN, makes total sense. Whatever!