Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are: Leodis McKelvin Stephon Gilmore CJ Spiller Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter. There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM. There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan. Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility . So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this. I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all! GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited May 6, 2014 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I give Whaley and Marrone more credit than you are. I think they don't go flashy or for a gadget guy. They take an OT. If they do a surprise pick I say CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I vote for OT as well, but hopefully not the 4th rated guy on the board at the 9th pick. If they find themselves in that scenario, get better value at the position on day 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I don't agree Bill. Watkins grades out ahead of Julio Jones coming out. That is an odd player to hate. He could win you football games on his own. A guy that can score from anywhere on the field isn't a luxury that loses you games it is the type of player that teams seek. The Super Bowl Champs gave up an awful lot to get a lesser version of Watkins last year. SF is trying desperately to get a weapon like that this year. There is a reason that he is a lock to go in the top 5. If you can get an elite talent you go for it. Watkins is safe and dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 With all due respect Bill, what an awful list. McKelvin was the best PR a few years ago & since the last half of 2012, he's been a very good starting cb. Spiller averages 5.1 ypc & nearly had 1,000 yards at 4.6 on a bad ankle in a "bad year." Gilmore broke his wrist & would be welcome on any team in the league. He will break out this year. All 3 on a better team would be appreciated & help win games. It's all about situation. For all your talk about how horrible Whitner was, he played in a SB & a NFC title game. A player's team & situation is a huge factor in their success. I'm not big on Watkins because I think we need a big wr but the guy is a ball player. My choice are the 1st round Qbs (so overrated) and Taylor Lewan. I think he will be at best a decent RT & he has Incognito vibes. I don't want a decent RT at 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'll be pissed if they take a QB. Again if any of the 4 teams in desperate need of a QB pass on them, why would the Bills want one? I also don't want a RT that high. Watkins catching 57% of his passes at or behind the LOS concerns me and trading up to get him is right out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'll be pissed if they take a QB. Again if any of the 4 teams in desperate need of a QB pass on them, why would the Bills want one? I also don't want a RT that high. Watkins catching 57% of his passes at or behind the LOS concerns me and trading up to get him is right out! I agree with all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'll be pissed if they take a QB. Again if any of the 4 teams in desperate need of a QB pass on them, why would the Bills want one? I also don't want a RT that high. Watkins catching 57% of his passes at or behind the LOS concerns me and trading up to get him is right out! If you had the best player in the league with the ball in his hands would you throw a lot of screens, or a lot of deep outs? Would that be an indictment on his long ball skills or a compliment to his runs after the catch? Without the eye test, that stat only means so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I give Whaley and Marrone more credit than you are. I think they don't go flashy or for a gadget guy. They take an OT. If they do a surprise pick I say CB. cb is my pick. We play some really high end passing teams this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I like Watkins but his style translating to NFL is a concern. A guy his size who constantly looks for contact might not last that long. I think Evans' game translates better to NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If you had the best player in the league with the ball in his hands would you throw a lot of screens, or a lot of deep outs? Would that be an indictment on his long ball skills or a compliment to his runs after the catch? Without the eye test, that stat only means so much. Maybe the Bills have been bad for so long but I find it really odd that people are legitimately concerned about taking the top graded skill player in the last 4 years?!? If you don't want to give up the assets to get up to get him (probably a 2nd) that's one thing. If you have concerns about the player you haven't seen enough of him. He will be a great player and he will do so sooner than later. His game has no holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well now, I don't want them to take him because I don't want to read 2-5 years of Bill's after game threads saying how bad he sucks while he is developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'm with you Bill in the stating that if this team is determined to go forward with EJ at QB, then they need better protection for him, and that entails a better RT. I don't so much dislike the idea of picking WR Sammy Watkins in this draft, even considering his two game suspension in 2012 for drugs. What I do dislike is needing to trade up for him, and giving up picks in this draft or next. I don't like the idea of trading up for anyone in the draft as I have issues with each and every one of those supposed elite five. I also don't like the newest idea of a trade up for WR Mike Evans either. I'd rather see the Bills trade back a few spots, and pick up an extra second rounder. This way they could conceivably draft three good starters to really help the team win this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If you had the best player in the league with the ball in his hands would you throw a lot of screens, or a lot of deep outs? Would that be an indictment on his long ball skills or a compliment to his runs after the catch? Without the eye test, that stat only means so much. Yeah people don't realize AJ Green caught 65% of his balls inside of ten yards. Granted only like 14% were behind the line of scrimmage, but the point is you want to get the ball in to your star player's hands ASAP. Even Megatron made 54% of his catches within 10 yards and only 11% over 20 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Leodis McKelvin Stephon Gilmore CJ Spiller Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter. Are we to take it that you don't think Cordy Glenn, Marcel Dareus, Eric Wood or Kyle Williams are good either? That is one ugly combined W-L record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 OT R1 would be the right move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I am not big on Sammy Watkins, either. At least for the Bills. If I was San Diego, I would try to get him, add Carlos Hyde and find some OL. Of course, I want Carlos Hyde on any team I am a part of... But, Rivers having a quick dump off guy to pair with Hyde... amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If you had the best player in the league with the ball in his hands would you throw a lot of screens, or a lot of deep outs? Would that be an indictment on his long ball skills or a compliment to his runs after the catch? Without the eye test, that stat only means so much. Not sure what it means at the next level, which is why I said it's concerning. That they'd need to trade up to get him only makes him less desirable IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Watkins is a complete stud. I honestly don't understand the logic here. It's irrelevant anyway because numerous other teams realize how good he is and he'll be gone by the time the Blls pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Yeah people don't realize AJ Green caught 65% of his balls inside of ten yards. Granted only like 14% were behind the line of scrimmage, but the point is you want to get the ball in to your star player's hands ASAP. Even Megatron made 54% of his catches within 10 yards and only 11% over 20 yards. The way that I view that is that his team thinks so highly of him as a playmaker they want to get the ball in his hands as often as they can. Brady, Brees and Manning have been doing this for years. Get playmakers the ball in space and let them go to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Maybe the Bills have been bad for so long but I find it really odd that people are legitimately concerned about taking the top graded skill player in the last 4 years?!? If you don't want to give up the assets to get up to get him (probably a 2nd) that's one thing. If you have concerns about the player you haven't seen enough of him. He will be a great player and he will do so sooner than later. His game has no holes. Absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 McKelvin rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Anthony Barr. He will be a bust. As for Watkins, I think I know how you think - you see Tavon Austin when you look at Watkins. You should be seeing Julio Jones. Edited May 6, 2014 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I am always against trading up as I hate giving up high picks. I am also against using a high pick on a CB so I hated the Leodis and Gilmore picks. This team needs another good OT so I am all for taking Mathews at 9 if he is there but I do not want to see them use a top ten pick on the 4th best tackle. My preference for awhile now has been Mathews or Ebron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Anthony Barr. He will be a bust. As for Watkins, I think I know how you think - you see Tavon Austin when you look at Watkins. You should be seeing Julio Jones. One scout said Tavon Austin would be 6th best wideout in this draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 The way that I view that is that his team thinks so highly of him as a playmaker they want to get the ball in his hands as often as they can. Brady, Brees and Manning have been doing this for years. Get playmakers the ball in space and let them go to work. To be fair there was a long stretch where a lot of people complained Brady was no good because he threw too many screens.... I think many like the wow factor of a 40 yard jump ball and dismiss the skill of creating space and yards from the line (over use of terms like system qb, situational RB, etc...) I haven't seen enough of Watkins to bet my house on him but I like him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Are we to take it that you don't think Cordy Glenn, Marcel Dareus, Eric Wood or Kyle Williams are good either? That is one ugly combined W-L record. Let's face it QB has been the issue on this team for a long long time. Manuel May be the answer but if he us he needs protection and a running game. OT round 1, best TE or rB round 2 if they are planning to keep Spiller they would already have signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'll be pissed if they take a QB. Again if any of the 4 teams in desperate need of a QB pass on them, why would the Bills want one? I also don't want a RT that high. Watkins catching 57% of his passes at or behind the LOS concerns me and trading up to get him is right out! Because sometimes, and I know it's rare, teams like the Jags and Raiders make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 The way that I view that is that his team thinks so highly of him as a playmaker they want to get the ball in his hands as often as they can. Brady, Brees and Manning have been doing this for years. Get playmakers the ball in space and let them go to work. NFN, but those QB's make their receivers, and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 NFN, but those QB's make their receivers, and not the other way around. Brady had no receivers this year and it showed. Qbs do actually need good skill players to excel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 NFN, but those QB's make their receivers, and not the other way around. Not for nothing but Stevie and chandler don't have a ton in common with moss, gronk, dt88. we've seen what those qbs can do with elite weapons, so I wouldn't argue that it doesn't cut both ways atleast to a degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 NFN, but those QB's make their receivers, and not the other way around. Yeah, I know but part of their greatness is getting the ball to guys in space to make plays. Julian Edelman, Wes Welker and Austin Collie have had careers because of this. Not one of those guys has 1/8th the talent of Watkins. With that being said by no means is he limited to screens. I beg the doubters to please rewatch the Orange Bowl. That is just one example but you will be hard pressed to find a more dominating performance (and I am a Buckeye fan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Brady had no receivers this year and it showed. Qbs do actually need good skill players to excel. Maybe I missed something, but didn't the Patriots go 12-4 last year? Not for nothing but Stevie and chandler don't have a ton in common with moss, gronk, dt88. we've seen what those qbs can do with elite weapons, so I wouldn't argue that it doesn't cut both ways atleast to a degree No question elite QB's do more with elite weapons. What I'm saying is looked what happened when Deion Branch left the Patriots after he won the SB MVP with Brady. Do you think Eric Decker is going to make the same impact with the Jets that he made with the Broncos. I think SJ would look a whole lot better with Brady, Brees, Manning throwing to him, and so would Chandler. Yeah, I know but part of their greatness is getting the ball to guys in space to make plays. Julian Edelman, Wes Welker and Austin Collie have had careers because of this. Not one of those guys has 1/8th the talent of Watkins. With that being said by no means is he limited to screens. I beg the doubters to please rewatch the Orange Bowl. That is just one example but you will be hard pressed to find a more dominating performance (and I am a Buckeye fan). There is no question that Watkins is a top talent. My problem is what the Bills need to give up to get him, and "what if" he falls on his face in the pros (which does happen)? That is a lot of picks to give up for one guy if he fails.Then there is the drug thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Brady had no receivers this year and it showed. Qbs do actually need good skill players to excel. Seattle and San Fran, arguably the two best teams in the NFL didn't have top receivers last year, save perhaps Anquan Boldin with SF. Yet both had strong running games which complemented their passing games. Both have also invested heavily in their offensive lines, which is where I'd like to see the Bills go on Thursday night. I don't have a major issue with the Bills receivers at this point and wouldn't be anti-Watkins if they traded up, but they've got to get another OT. Pears is declining, Hairston is a complete unknown, and the rest are journeymen or poor prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Are Bills fans are too familiar with their own players? Do we magnify every wart and discount any positive because we expect failure? Do we overvalue other teams players because all we see of them are SportsCenter highlights? I get that feeling. If you think Gilmore, McKelvin and Spiller are negatives then I have no idea what you want. Let these guys walk and see how fast they get signed and thrive elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 There is no question that Watkins is a top talent. My problem is what the Bills need to give up to get him, and "what if" he falls on his face in the pros (which does happen)? That is a lot of picks to give up for one guy if he fails. Then there is the drug thing... Fair enough, not wanting to pay the price is different. There is certainly a solid argument that can be made on both sides of that issue. I honestly don't know what would be too high a price for me. I don't think that I would do any trades that involved next year's #1. I have my reservations about EJ but think that by the end of this draft the team will have lots of talent. A talented team with no QB is the worst; you are never bad enough to get that franchise guy. I really hope that EJ takes big steps this year or it really won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Anthony Barr. He will be a bust. As for Watkins, I think I know how you think - you see Tavon Austin when you look at Watkins. You should be seeing Julio Jones. Julio Jones is two inches taller than Watkins. Instead of getting a guy who"plays bigger" than he is, let's just get a guy who's big to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I like Sammy Watkins, but not nearly enough to part with a 2nd round pick to move up and get him. I actually think he's a bit overrated at this point. Don't get me wrong I like his ability, but the way everyone seems to think he will be a can't miss superstar is misguided. Like others have said, the numbers show that WR's his size drafted real high usually don't live up to expectations. One other player I'm not a huge fan of, that seems to be regarded highly is Taylor Lewan. He seems a little slow/sluggish in pass pro. Very tall OT's also have always worried me because they have a very high center of gravity, which means they can get off balance easily. At 6'7" and 307 lbs. he's very tall, but doesn't have much girth, especially in his lower body. I won't pretend to know if he's a guy who can add weight, but with where his weight is now, I could see pro DE's making Lewan look bad on Sunday's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are: Leodis McKelvin Stephon Gilmore CJ Spiller Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter. There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM. There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan. Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility . So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this. I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all! GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I enjoy Bill's weekly post-game analyses, but I disagree with everything in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBUffalo Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I don't agree Bill. Watkins grades out ahead of Julio Jones coming out. Stopped reading right here. Oh my. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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