Bad Vibes About A Certain Player.....

[Bill from NYC]

So drafting good players isnt a good way to build the team?

 

Instead if disguising it, just own the fact that you always have, and always will believe that any first round pick on a player < 270 lbs is "squandering precious resources" and "not a way to build a team."

 

It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa.

 

And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you?

[Kirby Jackson]

It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa.

 

And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you?

QB I agree with, I do not necessarily agree that you need your lines first. You can just as easily swing and miss on a John McCargo as on a skill player. You take BPA once you have a QB. If it is a lineman fine, if it is a skill player fine. I do have concerns about the QB position but am willing to give EJ this year.

[RyanC883]

I vote for OT as well, but hopefully not the 4th rated guy on the board at the 9th pick. If they find themselves in that scenario, get better value at the position on day 2.

 

I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO>

[K-9]

I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO>

 

It's funny you mention that because Mayock now has four OTs in his top 10. Ironically, the kid from Notre Dame is at #9.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Seems the first rd WRs that have succeeded have all had size. Watkins is pretty average.

 

Don't know if anyone is elite at WR in the draft. Still fascinated by the potential of kelvin Benjamin.

[K-9]

Building a team is NEVER a linear process. EVER. The idea that if you don't have your QB and OL in place means you have the luxury of reaching for need to fill those positions, is anathema to the process. Indeed, if you don't have that QB or OL, you are probably a poor team and the last thing you can or should do is reach for the need to fill it.

 

The latest and greatest examples are all those teams that reached for QBs a mere two three years ago. Newton, who was a legit #1 prospect, is the only one of who justified his high slot. I have a strong suspicion the Jags and Vikings are kicking themselves when they think of the players that got away while they were reaching.

 

If a QB is there and he's high on your player board, then take him. If a QB is there, but not close to your BPA, then it's a reach and a mistake. Same with OLmen.

 

Great football players are always a position of need.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Herb62]

Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are:

Leodis McKelvin

Stephon Gilmore

CJ Spiller

Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter.

 

There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM.

 

There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan.

 

Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility .

 

So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this.

 

I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, I said we should have taken Russelll Wilson two years ago right after they passed on him and i took much grief for this. We will pass on Johnny football and be shocked as he leads Cleveland (with the second pick) to years of playoff excitment.

[thewildrabbit]

FTL - I think the last line, that you don't trust them, is likely the thing that's most at the core of your distaste for the idea

I'd be lying if I said it wasn't, but there are also other reasons.

• The Bills biggest need is not another receiver, as they just used two #3's, and a #2, made a trade for an established good WR in Mike Williams.
  
• In the most talent laden draft in the past decade this team is thinking of trading up and giving up picks. They should be thinking of trading back instead.
  
• This team is NOT one player away from anything, as they need to fill several holes.
  
• The first and foremost reason I hate the idea of trading up is giving up those picks that for the first time in years this draft that could entail starters being found in rounds 3 & 4.
  
• The Bills have a corps of 2nd year QB's that were harried, hit, and hurried far to often last year. (108 hits, 48 sacks) 3 of 5 players on that line graded in the red against the Patriots. The biggest need as I perceive it is O line.
  

 

I think what Bill was trying to convey is that over the last 14 years this team has expended so many resources on RB's, DB's, on the defense, and where has it gotten them?

 

A defense so overloaded with talent that 9 of 11 starters are 1st & 2nd round draft choices. Still 6-10. Not one regime in all that time has come in and built a proper O line with top talent across the board. Which is exactly what helped propel this franchise to two AFL championships and four super bowls.

 

 

On another note, should the Bills trade up and it doesn't get them a winning season. Well then, I could see it as the final nail for this regime.

[C.Biscuit97]

It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa.

 

And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you?

 

Seattle and SF did the complete opposite of what you're suggesting and it worked out for them.

[DC Tom]

cb is my pick. We play some really high end passing teams this year.

 

I always hope for a CB in the first round, just to watch Bill from NYC's head explode.

[nucci]

Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are:

Leodis McKelvin

Stephon Gilmore

CJ Spiller

Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter.

 

There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM.

 

There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan.

 

Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility .

 

So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this.

 

I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

because reporters speculate?

[Bronc24]

I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO>

 

Agree. Fourth rated by who? Kiper? McShay? If he will pave the way for a decade, I'm ok with that.

[Chandler#81]

I'm holding out hope for a QB. There isn't one on the team yet..

[NoSaint]

 

 

I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO>

 

I think you'd see a two fold argument:

 

1) that odds are in most cases the 4th best player at a position is typically not the 9th best player in the draft. Not always, but just spit balling, it's probably rare

 

2) odds are he hasn't seperated himself widely from the 10th or 11th even if he is 9th if he hasn't been able to pass even the 3rd best guy at his position and it may be worth looking harder at need if that's the case.

 

If he's the bpa though, feel free to grab him but I think many would guess you are reaching to fill a hole

[Bill from NYC]

On another note, should the Bills trade up and it doesn't get them a winning season. Well then, I could see it as the final nail for this regime.

 

I agree 100%! Worse yet, if a pick like this either gets hurt or is a bust, the franchise would be set back for another 5 years or so.

 

I always hope for a CB in the first round, just to watch Bill from NYC's head explode.

 

Most people who read this probably think that you are joking.

[thewildrabbit]

I always hope for a CB in the first round, just to watch Bill from NYC's head explode.

Be careful what you hope for, even if it is a joke. The Bills did have 6 DB's, and 6 RB's in for pre draft visits. which is the most out of the 29 interviews

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2014/4/27/5657932/nfl-draft-2014-buffalo-bills-pre-draft-visitors-breakdown/in/5338091

 

First round a DB, second round a RB.... Bills head literally explodes...

[Bill from NYC]

Be careful what you hope for, even if it is a joke. The Bills did have 6 DB's, and 6 RB's in for pre draft visits. which is the most out of the 29 interviews

 

http://www.buffaloru...down/in/5338091

 

First round a DB, second round a RB.... Bills head literally explodes...

Believe it or not I could deal with a second round rb IF they acquired an extra second round pick in a trade down. Count me as one who thinks that the Bills will, or already do need another running back. FJ is old and CJ......never mind.

[thewildrabbit]

Believe it or not I could deal with a second round rb IF they acquired an extra second round pick in a trade down. Count me as one who thinks that the Bills will, or already do need another running back. FJ is old and CJ......never mind.

YoloinOhio convinced me that Carlos Hyde could be worthy of that #2, and yet now I highly doubt he makes it to round two.

 

I view RB as not a big need just yet, and with better blocking Spiller would make a bigger impact IMO. If they can't resign him tho...

 

Anyway, i'm also for a trade back, and still am holding out hope for an OT, OG, and perhaps a TE in the first three picks

[dave mcbride]

Believe it or not I could deal with a second round rb IF they acquired an extra second round pick in a trade down. Count me as one who thinks that the Bills will, or already do need another running back. FJ is old and CJ......never mind.

You can never have enough cornerbacks, Bill.

[Ramius]

It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa.

 

And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you?

 

QB yes. OL, no. There are countless examples of teams with average lines that perform that make the playoffs and go far, including last year's Super Bowl Champs. Not to mention the Bills OL has 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd rounder starting on it. That's an awful lot of early round picks.

 

You always take BPA (within reason). BPA isnt a "luxury." In today's NFL, you need the skill players to be able to be active in the passing game and to score. Focusing on strictly OL is antiquated and myopic, especially when you're talking about a RT. LT, sure, but RT, no. Many of us believe that you can find a decent RT in round 2 or 3, which would suit this team fine. We believe we need to upgrade at RT, just not at pick #9. You are holding on to this odd belief that nothing is as important as the OL, which is completely untrue.

 

As for McKelvin etc, i could care less if they "live up to their draft slot." All i care about is how they perform on the field. If they are good players (which all 3 of them are), then that's what matters. You win football by amassing total talent, not relative talent compared to draft position.

 

You can never have enough cornerbacks, Bill.

 

I know you jest, but the numbers say that on the majority of defensive downs, you are playing 5 or 6 DBs on the field. That's equal to or more than the number of OL on the field on offensive downs. I fail to see why teams should completely ignore DBs on draft day when 25% of your total starters are DBs.

 

Note: i don't believe nor do i think that the Bills need to spend a high pick on a DB this year. I like our top 3-4 CBs as well as AW23. Add a DB in rounds 5-7, but not early.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Ramius

[Bill from NYC]

You are holding on to this odd belief that nothing is as important as the OL, which is completely untrue.

I really am not. I did at one point but the rule changes and the CBA made this league all about the quarterbacks. This is now beyond dispute. Players such as Cutler, Romo and Stafford approach 20 million per year. This is how the money was redistributed in the new CBA and again, it was driven by the rule changes.

 

The Bills do not have a proven QB. EJ can be very good or he can suck. You, as a FSU Fan know this better than I do. I don't love his chances, but I think they would certainly be enhanced with a solid pair of OTs. A LG would be pretty cool too.

 

One more thing.....they let Levitre walk and they had a ton of cap space while doing so. Thinking that the will definitely keep Glenn when his contract is up is a pipe dream. This team needs another OT, and they need a good one. In am sorry if this sort of thinking appears antiquated to you.

 

Either way, I hope all is well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ramius]

I really am not. I did at one point but the rule changes and the CBA made this league all about the quarterbacks. This is now beyond dispute. Players such as Cutler, Romo and Stafford approach 20 million per year. This is how the money was redistributed in the new CBA and again, it was driven by the rule changes.

 

The Bills do not have a proven QB. EJ can be very good or he can suck. You, as a FSU Fan know this better than I do. I don't love his chances, but I think they would certainly be enhanced with a solid pair of OTs. A LG would be pretty cool too.

 

One more thing.....they let Levitre walk and they had a ton of cap space while doing so. Thinking that the will definitely keep Glenn when his contract is up is a pipe dream. This team needs another OT, and they need a good one. In am sorry if this sort of thinking appears antiquated to you.

 

Either way, I hope all is well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All is well. Thanks. Hope all is well with you and your family. I think the Bills will pay for Glenn because they value OTs higher than OGs.They let Levitre go because they dont think OGs are worth a premium price. But i would bet they do their all to keep Glenn, especially considering he's a rising star. And i think we do need an RT, just not in round 1. there should be good prospects in rounds 2 or 3 that could come in and start.

 

That being said, i certainly wouldn't have an issue if Matthews fell to them at 9. Him or Robinson, i'm ok with.

[dave mcbride]

 

I know you jest, but the numbers say that on the majority of defensive downs, you are playing 5 or 6 DBs on the field. That's equal to or more than the number of OL on the field on offensive downs. I fail to see why teams should completely ignore DBs on draft day when 25% of your total starters are DBs.

 

Note: i don't believe nor do i think that the Bills need to spend a high pick on a DB this year. I like our top 3-4 CBs as well as AW23. Add a DB in rounds 5-7, but not early.

I was only partially jesting! I agree with you. And I'm not crazy about the Bills CB depth. I fear they're relying too much on the recovery and emergence of Ron Brooks.

[Bill from NYC]

That being said, i certainly wouldn't have an issue if Matthews fell to them at 9. Him or Robinson, i'm ok with.

 

I hear ya, but I would like a player who is capable of playing LT if Glenn is injured, or walks in a couple of years. There is no DJ Fluker in this draft (a pure RT), or so it appears. Btw, watch him this season. He has a chance to be the next Erik Williams, but I digress...

I want the Bills to NOT trade up. There (imo) is absolutely no need to do so. I am hoping for a blocker, and perhaps one of the 3 SEC quarterbacks. You can't have too many due to injuries and trade value. Replacing Tuel with Murray or McCarron would be a smart move imo, as would giving EJ more protection.

 

I am psyched about what can happen this week. Here's to hoping that they don't screw things up yet again!

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are:

Leodis McKelvin

Stephon Gilmore

CJ Spiller

Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter.

 

There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM.

 

There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan.

 

Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility .

 

So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this.

 

I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

For the life of me I don't understand how posters can have little faith in EJ yet want to draft an unproven QB. EJ will be successful in the league. As far as your list from above Bill, it's the SUM of the WHOLE.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

For the life of me I don't understand how posters can have little faith in EJ yet want to draft an unproven QB. EJ will be successful in the league. As far as your list from above Bill, it's the SUM of the WHOLE.

 

Obviously, the next Qb will come and light it up from day 1. No rookie qb has ever had ups & downs. That's a fact.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Obviously, the next Qb will come and light it up from day 1. No rookie qb has ever had ups & downs. That's a fact.

 

The protection that qbs are given has changed the time frame for development, as have the rule changes about hitting an unprotected receiver. Yep, it's now a passing league, like it or not.

Call me crazy, but I think that it's smart for a football team to hedge their bets against an unproven and not terribly impressive quarterback.

Or, should we continue to plod along in the Levy/Jauron era and focus on defensive backs and running backs. Might as well stick with what has worked for 14 years, no?

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

The protection that qbs are given has changed the time frame for development, as have the rule changes about hitting an unprotected receiver. Yep, it's now a passing league, like it or not.

Call me crazy, but I think that it's smart for a football team to hedge their bets against an unproven and not terribly impressive quarterback.

Or, should we continue to plod along in the Levy/Jauron era and focus on defensive backs and running backs. Might as well stick with what has worked for 14 years, no?

 

I've been in board with Murray in the 3rd or later. But to give up on a first round pick qb after one year is the mindset of a child.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

The protection that qbs are given has changed the time frame for development, as have the rule changes about hitting an unprotected receiver. Yep, it's now a passing league, like it or not.

Call me crazy, but I think that it's smart for a football team to hedge their bets against an unproven and not terribly impressive quarterback.

Or, should we continue to plod along in the Levy/Jauron era and focus on defensive backs and running backs. Might as well stick with what has worked for 14 years, no?

I'm not a big fan of prioritizing RB and DB but it worked pretty well for Seattle.

 

Outside of QB there is not a right or wrong way to build a team. Teams have won in a variety of ways. You need to accumulate talent and at the right price. Buddy Nix really raised the level of talent on this roster. Unfortunately I am not sure that they have their QB yet. I hope so but am concerned.

[Solomon Grundy]

I think we can attribute a lot of Russell Wilson's success in Seattle to the GREAT defense and BEAST MODE! It's not like Wilson was chucking the ball 40-50 times a game. I keep hearing the phrase that the league is a "passing league", but I still think championships are won by DEFENSES!

 

I'm not a big fan of prioritizing RB and DB but it worked pretty well for Seattle.

 

Outside of QB there is not a right or wrong way to build a team. Teams have won in a variety of ways. You need to accumulate talent and at the right price. Buddy Nix really raised the level of talent on this roster. Unfortunately I am not sure that they have their QB yet. I hope so but am concerned.

 

Atlanta didn't think they had the right QB, they traded him to Green Bay. San Diego felt the same way much to New Orleans chagrin. If it's one thing Buddy Nix knew, it was talent. EJ Manuel will be successful in the league.

[Pete]

bad vibes about Eric Ebron and Kelvin Benjamin

[thewildrabbit]

I'm not a big fan of prioritizing RB and DB but it worked pretty well for Seattle.

 

Outside of QB there is not a right or wrong way to build a team. Teams have won in a variety of ways. You need to accumulate talent and at the right price. Buddy Nix really raised the level of talent on this roster. Unfortunately I am not sure that they have their QB yet. I hope so but am concerned.

I don't get that first statement at all.

 

The DB's worked for Seattle because their HC was an actual DB guru, and not like all the supposed gurus the Bills continue to hire. Carroll brought in players with specific physical attributes, large, physically imposing cornerbacks, and then coached them up in his bump and run press scheme. He certainly didn't continually draft DB's in the first, and second round "hoping" to find good players like the Bills have done the last 14 years. Seattle's starting defense includes only two first round pick, two second rounders, a third, two fourths, two fifths, and two went undrafted. which is a far cry from the Bills over the top, talent laden defense which had 9 of 11 first and second rounders.

 

The Seahawk team build philosophy is 180 degrees different then the Bills, as in they prioritized hiring a top coach who won championships, and not another mediocre maybe. The Seahawks certainly didn't prioritize drafting #1 RB's like the Buffalo Bills have done. Instead they traded 3rd, 4th picks for the Bills #1 in Lynch when the Bills couldn't find a way to get more production from him. Pathetic really.

 

 

This Bills team has had a philosophy of trying to get by with sub par players on the O line since the Jim Kelly, SB days. Each new regime comes in and finds one or two decent players while never building an elite unit that can control the line of scrimmage, or clock. If EJ fails to develop properly it will more then likely be from not getting enough time in the pocket to make plays. So, is it any wonder why the bills haven't had a successful QB since the 90's. Its about building confidence for young QB's, and they can't gain confidence when the pocket breaks down after 2.5 seconds, and are forced into bad decisions.

 

The O line consists of five players, and those five players represent 45% of the offense. When that much of the offense fails in most games... well then, how can you possibly expect to win?

 

 

If this team ever put as much effort into building an O line like they have done with the D line, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I'm convinced the team would start having winning seasons. Plus, I'd finally be able to shut the heck up about it.

Edited May 7, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[OCinBuffalo]

Bad vibes about taking the 3rd best player, at any position, never mind O line, at #9, due solely to some out-dated mantra.

 

If we are drafting at 20-25? I have no problem with the third best OT, for the same reason I have no problem with the third best WR/QB/C whatever: we are drafting 20-25. Not at 9. 3rd best anything, or high-risk/reward bust like Maybin(notice how Bill left Maybin out? Convenient, huh? D line = too close to O line, since neither is a skill player...so...we forgetz it!), is not who you draft at #9.

 

You draft graded out, consensus, stud player, that your entire scouting staff has rated in the Top 10...and if he fails, you fire your scouting staff.

 

Otherwise? Why have a scouting staff at all? If the only thing that ever makes sense is drafting an O lineman in the first round? You don't need a scouting staff. Just look online/see what everybody else is saying about the O line prospects, and take one of them.

 

But....we do have a scouting staff, don't we? I wonder why.......

 

 

EDIT: And after careful consideration, I've come the conclusion that 31 other teams have scouting departments as well. Gee, all this wasted $. Don't they know that the only position you should ever draft in Rounds 1-3 is O line, and perhaps D-line? Man, the NFL loves to waste money on people it doesn't need. All this talk of them being a greedy business, but, look at all these make-work jobs they hand out to useless scouts! And, these scouts don't even do their jobs right, since for years, all their teams have not been following proper drafting procedure. They've been drafting LB, RB, CB, S, WR, TE and of course QB in the first round, never mind the other 3. Man, it just doesn't make sense.

Edited May 7, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[Wayne Cubed]

I don't get that first statement at all.

 

The DB's worked for Seattle because their HC was an actual DB guru, and not like all the supposed gurus the Bills continue to hire. Carroll brought in players with specific physical attributes, large, physically imposing cornerbacks, and then coached them up in his bump and run press scheme. He certainly didn't continually draft DB's in the first, and second round "hoping" to find good players like the Bills have done the last 14 years. Seattle's starting defense includes only two first round pick, two second rounders, a third, two fourths, two fifths, and two went undrafted. which is a far cry from the Bills over the top, talent laden defense which had 9 of 11 first and second rounders.

 

The Seahawk team build philosophy is 180 degrees different then the Bills, as in they prioritized hiring a top coach who won championships, and not another mediocre maybe. The Seahawks certainly didn't prioritize drafting #1 RB's like the Buffalo Bills have done. Instead they traded 3rd, 4th picks for the Bills #1 in Lynch when the Bills couldn't find a way to get more production from him. Pathetic really.

 

 

This Bills team has had a philosophy of trying to get by with sub par players on the O line since the Jim Kelly, SB days. Each new regime comes in and finds one or two decent players while never building an elite unit that can control the line of scrimmage, or clock. If EJ fails to develop properly it will more then likely be from not getting enough time in the pocket to make plays. So, is it any wonder why the bills haven't had a successful QB since the 90's. Its about building confidence for young QB's, and they can't gain confidence when the pocket breaks down after 2.5 seconds, and are forced into bad decisions.

 

The O line consists of five players, and those five players represent 45% of the offense. When that much of the offense fails in most games... well then, how can you possibly expect to win?

 

 

If this team ever put as much effort into building an O line like they have done with the D line, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I'm convinced the team would start having winning seasons. Plus, I'd finally be able to shut the heck up about it.

 

Honestly, where to start, you're all over the place. First are you suggesting that Carroll because he was a DB drafted DB's? It couldn't possibly be because he realizes the NFL is a passing league and teams need more DB's? Or are you suggesting that coaches should only draft what positions they previously played, completely ignoring the needs of a modern NFL team? And just because their starting defense isn't laden with 1st and 2nd round draft picks doesn't mean it isn't for a lack of trying. The majority of players drafted by Carroll has been on the defense, including picking a situational pash rusher in the 1st. Oh and their first pick in the 2013 draft, albeit a 2nd rd pick, was a RB. And yet they (Seattle) traded away a 1st and 7th in 2013 and a 3rd in 2014.

 

Second, you then take all of what you say about Carroll and spin it to say the Bills have sucked because of their OL, completely ignoring the the fact that the Bills OL was in fact rated better than the Super Bowl Champs. So, whats your point with that?

[Kirby Jackson]

I don't get that first statement at all.

 

The DB's worked for Seattle because their HC was an actual DB guru, and not like all the supposed gurus the Bills continue to hire. Carroll brought in players with specific physical attributes, large, physically imposing cornerbacks, and then coached them up in his bump and run press scheme. He certainly didn't continually draft DB's in the first, and second round "hoping" to find good players like the Bills have done the last 14 years. Seattle's starting defense includes only two first round pick, two second rounders, a third, two fourths, two fifths, and two went undrafted. which is a far cry from the Bills over the top, talent laden defense which had 9 of 11 first and second rounders.

 

The Seahawk team build philosophy is 180 degrees different then the Bills, as in they prioritized hiring a top coach who won championships, and not another mediocre maybe. The Seahawks certainly didn't prioritize drafting #1 RB's like the Buffalo Bills have done. Instead they traded 3rd, 4th picks for the Bills #1 in Lynch when the Bills couldn't find a way to get more production from him. Pathetic really.

 

 

This Bills team has had a philosophy of trying to get by with sub par players on the O line since the Jim Kelly, SB days. Each new regime comes in and finds one or two decent players while never building an elite unit that can control the line of scrimmage, or clock. If EJ fails to develop properly it will more then likely be from not getting enough time in the pocket to make plays. So, is it any wonder why the bills haven't had a successful QB since the 90's. Its about building confidence for young QB's, and they can't gain confidence when the pocket breaks down after 2.5 seconds, and are forced into bad decisions.

 

The O line consists of five players, and those five players represent 45% of the offense. When that much of the offense fails in most games... well then, how can you possibly expect to win?

 

 

If this team ever put as much effort into building an O line like they have done with the D line, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I'm convinced the team would start having winning seasons. Plus, I'd finally be able to shut the heck up about it.

The bolder part was sarcasm. Regardless of when they were drafted, they built their scheme around them. The same can be said for Marshawn. It doesn't matter what they had to give up to get him they built their scheme around him as well.

 

There is no right way or wrong way to build a football team if you have a QB. I can give you examples of teams that won with a variety of strengths (front to back, back to front, outside in and inside out). If you draft the best players available and plug your holes in FA than you will win. The problem with the Bills is that they were pretty devoid of talent when Nix got here. That has since changed regardless of what the most negative people on here want to believe.

 

The questions about QB remain which unfortunately is all that matters. If EJ doesn't develop soon you are going to risk getting to a point that whenever you do eventually find your QB it will come at a point where the rest of the talent on the roster isn't strong. It is a vicious cycle. Personally, I do not believe that getting a RT or an elite playmaker solves the flaws in EJs game. He is inaccurate, has slow eyes, made poor pre snap reads (and in turn poor audibles last year). They had to scale back the playbook in week 14 and he suffered 3 injuries. You can help some of those things in the draft (catching poorly thrown balls, giving him a little more time) but you cannot solve those problems. If teams don't think that you can make plays over the top than the safeties are going to play closer to the LOS and disrupt your running game and your short passing game. He needs to develop for this team to have any chance.

 

The resources on the OL are beyond the resources that they have used on playmakers. If we are specifically talking about the Bills resources they have drafted a 1st rounder (Wood), 2nd rounder (Glenn) & 4th rounder (Hairston) that would currently start along side a free agent that was drafted in the 3rd (Urbik) and the 1st (Williams). Of those players Wood is okay but had a bad year, Urbik is okay and had an average year, Hairston is talented but has injury questions, Williams is a wild card that I am not expecting much from and Glenn is a monster. They have drafted plenty of OL in the last decade that just weren't any good (Asper, Calloway, Mertz, Bell, etc...). The Bills haven't neglected the line they made mistakes in the guys that they picked. In addition, they spent large on Dockery and Walker who were also bad in FA.

 

Back to the original point there is not a right or wrong way to build a team. The best teams get the best talent but they do not focus on a particular position group. They focus on getting the players that will make the biggest impact and plugging their holes in FA.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[K-9]

The bolder part was sarcasm. Regardless of when they were drafted, they built their scheme around them. The same can be said for Marshawn. It doesn't matter what they had to give up to get him they built their scheme around him as well.

 

There is no right way or wrong way to build a football team if you have a QB. I can give you examples of teams that won with a variety of strengths (front to back, back to front, outside in and inside out). If you draft the best players available and plug your holes in FA than you will win. The problem with the Bills is that they were pretty devoid of talent when Nix got here. That has since changed regardless of what the most negative people on here want to believe.

 

The questions about QB remain which unfortunately is all that matters. If EJ doesn't develop soon you are going to risk getting to a point that whenever you do eventually find your QB it will come at a point where the rest of the talent on the roster isn't strong. It is a vicious cycle. Personally, I do not believe that getting a RT or an elite playmaker solves the flaws in EJs game. He is inaccurate, has slow eyes, made poor pre snap reads (and in turn poor audibles last year). They had to scale back the playbook in week 14 and he suffered 3 injuries. You can help some of those things in the draft (catching poorly thrown balls, giving him a little more time) but you cannot solve those problems. If teams don't think that you can make plays over the top than the safeties are going to play closer go the LOS and disrupt your running game and your short passing game. He needs to develop for this team to have any chance.

 

The resources on the OL are beyond the resources that they have used on playmakers. If we are specifically talking about the Bills resources they have drafted a 1st rounder (Wood), 2nd rounder (Glenn) & 4th rounder (Hairston) that would currently start along side a free agent that was drafted in the 3rd (Urbik) and the 1st (Williams). Of those players Wood is okay but had a bad year, Urbik is okay and had an average year, Hairston is talented but has injury questions, Williams is a wild card that I am not expecting much from and Glenn is a monster. They have drafted plenty of OL in the last decade that just weren't any good (Asper, Calloway, Merz, Bell, etc...). The Bills haven't neglected the line they made mistakes in the guys that they picked.

 

Back to the original point there is not a right or wrong way to build a team. The best teams get the best talent but they do not focus on a particular position group. They focus on getting the players that will make the biggest impact and plugging their holes in FA.

 

Nice take here, Kirby.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[bananathumb]

Bad vibes about anyone they move up for, neutral vibes about someone they pick at 9, good vibes about anyone they trade down for and get extra picks!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Nice take here, Kirby.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Thanks K-9

[FireChan]

I don't get that first statement at all.

 

The DB's worked for Seattle because their HC was an actual DB guru, and not like all the supposed gurus the Bills continue to hire. Carroll brought in players with specific physical attributes, large, physically imposing cornerbacks, and then coached them up in his bump and run press scheme. He certainly didn't continually draft DB's in the first, and second round "hoping" to find good players like the Bills have done the last 14 years. Seattle's starting defense includes only two first round pick, two second rounders, a third, two fourths, two fifths, and two went undrafted. which is a far cry from the Bills over the top, talent laden defense which had 9 of 11 first and second rounders.

 

The Seahawk team build philosophy is 180 degrees different then the Bills, as in they prioritized hiring a top coach who won championships, and not another mediocre maybe. The Seahawks certainly didn't prioritize drafting #1 RB's like the Buffalo Bills have done. Instead they traded 3rd, 4th picks for the Bills #1 in Lynch when the Bills couldn't find a way to get more production from him. Pathetic really.

 

 

This Bills team has had a philosophy of trying to get by with sub par players on the O line since the Jim Kelly, SB days. Each new regime comes in and finds one or two decent players while never building an elite unit that can control the line of scrimmage, or clock. If EJ fails to develop properly it will more then likely be from not getting enough time in the pocket to make plays. So, is it any wonder why the bills haven't had a successful QB since the 90's. Its about building confidence for young QB's, and they can't gain confidence when the pocket breaks down after 2.5 seconds, and are forced into bad decisions.

 

The O line consists of five players, and those five players represent 45% of the offense. When that much of the offense fails in most games... well then, how can you possibly expect to win?

 

 

If this team ever put as much effort into building an O line like they have done with the D line, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I'm convinced the team would start having winning seasons. Plus, I'd finally be able to shut the heck up about it.

 

Fear, was your promising Pewee QB career cut short by a gruesome bruise caused by poor O-line play? You can tell us.

[HeHateMe]

Bad vibes about anyone they move up for, neutral vibes about someone they pick at 9, good vibes about anyone they trade down for and get extra picks!

 

This^, the draft is mostly a crap shoot so why not get more chances to make the right picks? Especially in a deep draft. At pick 9 I don't think any of the top guys will be there and the guys from 9-15 have been slotted anywhere within that range so there isn't a big difference in the players available. I think it really comes down to fit.

 

I'd trade with someone in the mid to late teens if there was a taker. Sounds like a lot of teams want to move back though.